Heavy metal Vs Death metal Vs Black Metal

jessy

Hello all, this probably seems like a newbie question to all you hard core metal fans but can someone tell me what the real difference is between

1) Heavy metal
2) Death metal
3) Black metal
And maybe give a few examples of each.

At the minute I’m listening to the following,
In Flames, chimaira, Korn, Ill Nino, Machine head, Drowning pool, HIM, Metallica, soulfly,

If anyone knows similar bands do tell.

John

Now I don't claim to know much about metal BUT...

Heavy metal is, well, heavy metal. Started by Sabbath, augmented by many.
Death metal is heavy metal with less decipherable vocals and more distorion.
Black metal is death metal with make up (i.e. the sissy version).

That's my views anyway.

RE*AC*TOR

Wikipedia!

Heavy metal is the progenitor of the "metal-family" of genres including black metal, death metal, thrash metal and others. Most metal derives directly from blues and rock, while some sub-genres include an evident influence of Western classical music. Thus, even if classical heavy metal and avant-garde black metal belong to the same family, there are important differences between them. Pure heavy metal is mainly blues-based, with pentatonic scales and a blues-like song structure; black metal and related forms often draw on classical music, even if at a first glance it seems to be only distorted guitars playing a very fast repeating melody.

Death metal is usually identified by extreme brutality and speed. The vocals, or growls, as they're often called, are rough and/or incomprehensible and they usually communicate macabre subject matter. This style of music is known for very abrupt tempo and count changes, and extremely fast drumwork. Most bands of this use guitars and drums, often two guitars, which play both rhythm and lead guitar parts, a bass guitar, a drum set, and a vocalist. Some bands add incidental synthesizers for effect. Lyrics tend towards extreme, unpopular worldviews and profound violence. The intense focus on morbidity, and the general sense of brutality and violence that the music conjurs up, likely inspired the naming of this genre as "Death" metal.

Black metal generally consists of heavily distorted, extremely fast guitar playing, screamed vocals, and fast drumming. The genre makes extensive use of repetition, with some songs being quite simple musically. An abraded, very low-fidelity recording style is common to the early albums associated with the genre. Also common are overtly Satanic lyrics which blaspheme Christianity, as well as other occult themes.

jessy

RE*AC*TOR

Thanks Mate helped alot.

LightofDarkness

Differences between Heavy, Death and Black are huge. Heavy is the entry level, the progression from hard-rock. Not really all that heavy by today's standards, sometimes the line between hard-rock and heavy metal can be blurry. You don't seem to listen to any of that, though. Heavy Metal eg. Black Sabbath, Motorhead, Iron Maiden.

Death and Black are the two extremes of metal. There's really almost no similarities between death/black and heavy. Death is often about technical proficiency in it's musicians (especially drummers) and extreme brutality. It can often be the heaviest thing you're ever likely to hear. Prime examples of death metal are Deicide, Morbid Angel, Kataklysm, Cannibal Corpse and Cryptopsy. Good technical death metal bands include Death and Martyr (Canada).

Black metal is a much harder beast to describe. Drums switch between fast and slow, music can be brutal and then melodic in the same breath. The melodies are often deep yet simplistic. Many Black Metal bands emply keyboardists for atmospheric effects. Black metal has adopted many odd sounds over the years and it can be hard to shrug off some bands as just black, but some prime examples would be Immortal, Emperor, Mayhem. Some newer bands with more diverse influences include Dimmu Borgir (Symphonic Black Metal), Old Man's Child (melodic black), Finntroll (Folk Black). And remember, Cradle of Filth aren't black metal! (damn black metal elitists)

You seem to have skipped some genres, as none of the bands you mentioned really fit into these categories. In Flames: Melodic Death Metal. Melo-Death as it's called is now becoming it's own genre, too different from everything else to be simply called death. Other bands you might want to try in this genre: Soilwork, Dark Tranquility Insomnium and, even though not fully Melo-Death, Children of Bodom.
Metallica (most) Machine Head: Thrash. Thrash metal (my personal favourite) started around the very early eighties with bands like Metallica, Testament, Slayer and Exodus. Along with those thrash bands, check out Death Angel, Dark Angel (heh) Annihilator and Kreator.

Korn, Ill Nino, Soulfly, Drowning Pool (mostly): Nu Metal. Yucky.

Chimaira: Metal Core. If you like these, you'll love Killswitch Engage, Avenged Sevenfold, Atreyu, Shadows Fall and Lamb of God.

HIM: That Love Metal crap. Blargh. Basically heavy-metal-ish background music and very gay vocalists (and vocals). You'll probably like the Rasmus' album. Probably.

Tommy Vercetti

There's no clear, set-in-stone definition of black metal, but it's finest purveyors (Euronymous, Fenriz, etc.) have stated that it must be dark and Satanic. Take it as seriously as you want, although a large helping of salt may be required if Korn is your usual choice of music

superconor

Heavy Metal is similar to rock in the sense that while Metal is an offshoot of rock death and black are still heavy metal. although the styles are very different.

Melodic Death is also called Swedish/Gothenburg Metal, from the place it originated in.

I think Sentenced would be the main influence on HIM, Sentenced sound like a less pussier version of HIM.

Pugsley

Should hear sentenced's origional singer SuperConor, vicious stuff, far far far more aggresive than their current singer, some really good stuff with the origional singer too.

John

Originally posted by LightofDarkness
Death is often about technical proficiency in it's musicians (especially drummers) and extreme brutality. It can often be the heaviest thing you're ever likely to hear.

Of course if death metal isn't heavy enough for you (which it's not for me, it just becomes boring after a while, yes the music is heavy but it lacks emotional impact) then listen to Merzbow. Granted there's no discernable instruments but it's definitely the heaviest "music" you'll ever hear.

mayordenis

not trying to be condesending but the find death/black/gore metal to be boring and samey probably dont care but i find speed/symphonic metal to be the least repetitive of all forms, and also quite amusing.

interested try these - manowar,blind guardian, rhapsody.

hostyle

Originally posted by John2
Of course if death metal isn't heavy enough for you (which it's not for me, it just becomes boring after a while, yes the music is heavy but it lacks emotional impact) then listen to Merzbow. Granted there's no discernable instruments but it's definitely the heaviest "music" you'll ever hear.

My memory is a little foggy on Merzbow but are they not industrial?

Doctor J

Originally posted by John2
Of course if death metal isn't heavy enough for you (which it's not for me, it just becomes boring after a while, yes the music is heavy but it lacks emotional impact) then listen to Merzbow. Granted there's no discernable instruments but it's definitely the heaviest "music" you'll ever hear.

You haven't heard Earth then?

John

I've heard a few bits from the Earth 2 album but no way are they in the same league as Merzbow (who is industrial yes but still a **** load heavier than any heavy metal song I've heard). Earth remind me of a gentler version of the Swans' early material (Filth, Holy Money, Greed).

Doctor J

I think your interpretation of 'heavy' and the interpretaion of 'heavy' by the contributors of this thread might differ slightly

Just listening to 1930 here, I think it would not really be everybody's idea of industrial either.

John

No, in my experience most people think of industrial as any rock band that has more than one keyboard. Or insanely bad goth bands like Alien Sex Fiend. *shudder*

Tommy Vercetti

Originally posted by mayordenis
not trying to be condesending but the find death/black/gore metal to be boring and samey probably dont care but i find speed/symphonic metal to be the least repetitive of all forms, and also quite amusing.

interested try these - manowar,blind guardian, rhapsody.

lol I find speed/symphonic to be boring and repetitive

RE*AC*TOR

Originally posted by Tommy Vercetti
lol I find speed/symphonic to be boring and repetitive

Well it takes a big man to admit when he's wrong. Fair play all the same.

hostyle

Originally posted by John2
No, in my experience most people think of industrial as any rock band that has more than one keyboard. Or insanely bad goth bands like Alien Sex Fiend. *shudder*

Well ... those people are just plain wrong. 16 volt, some NIN, Ministry, Merzbow, some Rammstein, Bile, some Alec Empire is industrial. But this is off topic. "Industrial is music that sounds like "industrial sounds" - ie. crazy metal machines with a mind of their own.

Karl Hungus

Originally posted by John2
Black metal is death metal with make up (i.e. the sissy version).

Talk about an ignorant statement!

Tommy Vercetti definetly said it correct with the 'There's no clear, set-in-stone definition of black metal' comment, as it really does shine through in the amount of sub-genres, and the sheer amount of bands who sound almost nothing alike, yet still get tucked under the Black Metal blanket. For example, compare Arcturus to Mayhem, or Dimmu Borgir to Enslaved, or Emperor to Marduk, or Darkthrone to Thorns. Radically different altogether.

There really is very little paralels that can be drawn at all, with everything from the ultra-simplistic Darkthrone, and their army of clones, crazy folk-metal noodlings like Finntroll, the more technical trashy style of Dissection, electronic experimentation of Thorns, the 70's prog-esque style of latter day Enslaved, that 'big' epic sound of Immortal, Dimmu Borgir and their Symphonic Black Metal, the fantastic mind-melting opium trip insanity that is Sigh, or even the 'Washing Machine Full Of Spanners' that is Marduk, and of course Emperor, who are nearly a genre unto themselves.

And speaking of heaviest things you could hear (And yeah, Merzbow are some freakin' madness, well recommended altogether!) Black Metal certainly has it's heavies! Just take a listen to Anaal Nathrakh, or Myrkskog (Tough they've gone all Death now. Pity.)

mayordenis

Originally posted by RE*AC*TOR
Well it takes a big man to admit when he's wrong. Fair play all the same.

id obviously agree speed metal has the largest variation of any metal

John

Originally posted by Karl Hungus
Talk about an ignorant statement!

Have you ever thought that my comment might not be a serious one but said to ruffle a few feathers?

Originally posted by hostyle
"Industrial is music that sounds like "industrial sounds" - ie. crazy metal machines with a mind of their own.

No, it was originally any music that was on Industrial Records who's motto was "Industrial music for industrial people". The label was set up to take the piss out of the music industry and the term just got thrown about a bit much.

cournioni

Originally posted by superconor
I think Sentenced would be the main influence on HIM, Sentenced sound like a less pussier version of HIM.

I totally agree.

hostyle

Originally posted by John2
No, it was originally any music that was on Industrial Records who's motto was "Industrial music for industrial people". The label was set up to take the piss out of the music industry and the term just got thrown about a bit much.

This is boards.ie, and apparently you're entitled to your opinion, even if its wrong.

John

I'm sorry, are you saying I'm wrong or you were wrong. If the latter, I didn't mean my post in any condescending/mean way, the misuse of the term is just one of my pet peeves. If you meant the former, go to Throbbing Gristle's site .

Back to the metal discussion!

Karl Hungus

Originally posted by John2
Have you ever thought that my comment might not be a serious one but said to ruffle a few feathers?

Well I generally take everything with a pinch of salt, but a comment along the lines of that can generally be seen as a complete cop out of any arguement, so I'm taking that with a pinch of salt also.

Sarky

Heavy, black, death, thrash, it doesn't really matter. It's ALL good.

John

Originally posted by Karl Hungus
Well I generally take everything with a pinch of salt, but a comment along the lines of that can generally be seen as a complete cop out of any arguement, so I'm taking that with a pinch of salt also.

Take it whatever way you want but believe me, I didn't mean the first statement as a hard fact. I may not be huge into black and death metal but I'm not that ignorant

Karl Hungus

Originally posted by John2
Take it whatever way you want

I already did, thanks.

Originally posted by John2
but believe me, I didn't mean the first statement as a hard fact. I may not be huge into black and death metal but I'm not that ignorant

Ok so, care to actually discuss it at all? Any particular Death or Black Metal bands you've heard? What did you like, or what did you dislike?

John

I have two Burzum albums which I like for the sheer brutality (although the intro to War always makes me laugh, he sounds about as menacing as chocolate cake but then again, weigh that against his criminal record...). I like what I've heard of Dimmu Borgir but I've only got a couple of mp3's. I've got the Prometheus album by Emperor and it's ok, doesn't get played often.

I bought a Deicide album and a Mayhem album some years ago and I think I played them once, they just didn't float my boat.

I don't know what you'd call At The Gates or Meshuggah but I quite like them too. And Opeth, if you class them as death metal at all anymore, are ****ing fantastic. Had the pleasure of seeing them the two times they played here.

LightofDarkness

Well, you mentioned but one Death metal band, Deicide, and they've been on a losing streak for the last 8 or 9 years. Legion is their best IMO, although I was never a big Deicide fan to begin with. Necrophagist (a newer death metal band) are outstanding. Super techinical, theri first album, "Onset of Putrefication," was recorded by the one guy (frontman and lead guitarist) and it's superb. Lots of crazy neo-classical riffs and guitars, lots of sweeping shredding and stuff as riffs, plus amazing brutality.

Opeth: prog death (at least they were last I checked). I loathe Opeth. But I have found a prog death band who are outstanding, who go by the name of Cynic. You might like Spiral Architect too. Cynic pre-date about all other prog-death bands, their album "focus" is amazing. It's got some jazzy elements, not very brutal at all.

At The Gates are Gothenburg style Melodic Death Metal. Huge influence on bands like In Flames. And alot of metalcore bands too.

Meshuggah: despite being awful, are like math-core, (like Dillinger Escape Plan) but with more gimmicks. Like "OMG LOOK AT THE 8-STRING GUITARS LOL OMG ROFL MY WAFFLE" and a 9-string bass, which none of them seem to or know how to use, as all they do is chug the low E string. Along to some double bass. Then drag it out for 10 minutes. Some peopel call them neo-thrash or something, but nothing could be farther from the truth. They aren't even metal to my ears.

Aside from all that, you don't really seem to have had much exposure to either genre.

Karl Hungus

Aye, the intro to War is a bit funny indeed, but personally I prefered the Det Som Engeng Var album over the earlier, more brutal stuff, utterly fantastic peice of music that.

Prometheus probably isn't the best Emperor album at all mind you, in fact, most Emperor fans aren't too fond of it at all. I rather like it myself though, it's very interesting altogether.

Töpher

Cynic are unbelievable. I've become very very fond of them!
From what I've heard of Aghora they're quality too, and have the two Seans from Cynic in them. Still waiting to nab a listen to the full cd, and Spiral Architects, dying to hear the things in full. Only heard snippets from each :mad:

IMO, the best Emperor album would be Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk. Prometheus is interesting but just doesn't 'flow' as well me thinks.

Karl, was Det Som Engeng Var one of those released after Varg was imprisoned? Orchestral style? Or am I just confused!?

Karl Hungus

Aye, Spiral Architect are quite fantastic altogether.

And no, Det Som Engeng Var isn't orchestral style.
You are confused.

triv88

Has anybody got Akercocke-chornonzon,best album ive heard in years!

by the way,cant wait to see dissection in december,i presume theyll be playing whelans?

Karl Hungus

I have Choronzon, but I'd hardly think it's that great. It was ok at best, but their previous album was a hell of a lot better.

Dathai

The two best Burzum albums imo are Hvis Lyset Tar Oss and Hlidskjalf due to the first having chaotic melodies and the second showing Grishnack's evolvement into a classical area of Black Metal.The two are essential for a Burzum fan imo.But Aske has its good points also.


Some of my favourite black metal bands are:


Darkthrone
Burzum
Ildjarn
Immortal
Mayhem
Behemoth
Bathory
Sacramentum

Some death metal bands you should check out are:

Vader
Incantation
At the Gates
Massacra
Atheist
Amorphis
Morbid Angel
Therion


Thats all I can think of atm

Töpher

Surprised thats the first mention of Atheist in the thread! Absolute quality. I still find it funny classing ATG as death metal tho, I mean I love them and all, but I'd've never classed them as death metal, tho I have no idea why, just something I have stuck in my head I guess.

cournioni

I wouldn't really call At the Gates death metal either.

One death metal band you should definately check out is Decapitated. Class.

Dathai

Yeah I suppose ATG wouldnt be really Death..every album review has either classed them as black/death metal and death came up more so I decided let it be death, but as I have just listened to Souls of the Evil Departed from the "Gardens of Grief" album and am listening to the "Slaughter of the Soul" album as I type this I'm beginning to see your point.I havent actually listened to this in quite a while.While rooting out my At The Gates collection Ive stumbled across my old black/death collection...I converted most albums to mp3 and havent listened to the rest in ages..unbelievable stuff altogether... and I found my 'The Secrets Of The Black Arts' album...thought I lost that..hrm

Karl Hungus

Well, I'd say they're definetly Melodic Death Metal. Definetly can't deny their influence on the likes of In Flames.

Dathai

I'm quite a big fan of Einherjer also, and I think this is the first mention of this band in the thread.A very very good band I must add also.

Karl Hungus

Aye, Einherjer are indeed class, pity they've broken up now though.

Ancient1

PORNAPSTER wrote:

One death metal band you should definately check out is Decapitated. Class.

Decapitated are unbelievable. Their last album The Negation is out of this world in all aspects - technical proficiency, brutality, vision. Amazing control and musicianship. It's perfect.
And it depresses the fcuk out of me to think that these guys are 21-22 years old.

Karl Hungus

As far as Decapitated go, you simply cannot beat Winds Of Creation. That was just such an awesome album it's nearly unfathomable! The Negation just doesn't hold a flame to it.

John

LightofDarkness wrote:

Opeth: prog death (at least they were last I checked). I loathe Opeth. But I have found a prog death band who are outstanding, who go by the name of Cynic. You might like Spiral Architect too. Cynic pre-date about all other prog-death bands, their album "focus" is amazing. It's got some jazzy elements, not very brutal at all.

I've heard Cynic and they don't do much for me. They're impressive musicians but it's too much fretboard masturbation for my liking. They just remind me of Keijo Haino on a bad day.

LightofDarkness wrote:

Aside from all that, you don't really seem to have had much exposure to either genre.

I just listed what I own, not what I've heard. I've heard stuff by Carcass, Ackercocke, Satyricon and various others thanks to several acqaintances who would be more into that kind of music but I wasn't arsed buying anything by them. None of them sounded unique enough to warrant a purchase. I just bought stuff that I liked the sound of.