accident/claims advice needed

mudflapgirl

So I did it, I finally had my first real accident the other day. Skidded on a puddle/petrol spill and ended in a ditch. I tore the sump apart among other things (including bumpers etc) so my Clio is off the road for now.

I have a few options:
a) claim - not something I want to do
b) fix it and continue as normal
c) fix it and sell it
d) try and get a dealer to take it as is and trade to something older

Thing is this; do I have to tell my insurer I had an accident? I was the only car involved and no-one else was on the road at the time. I figure if I tell them my premium will skyrocket. If the car is fixable and I have no need to claim, I don't see a point in telling them.

In the meantime, driving a Megane. It has no tax on it, my father had just bought it before moving to South Africa and the new reg cert went missing somehwere along the way. A replacement has been requested but in the meantime, where do I stand if I get stopped? It hasn't had tax since April this year.

Some advice would be greatly appreciated.

Seth Brundle

"A replacement has been requested but in the meantime, where do I stand if I get
stopped? It hasn't had tax since April this year."
The it is untraxed and liable for a fine! UYou can tax your car online at www.motortax.ie - there is no need for the papers!

mudflapgirl

Originally posted by kbannon
The it is untraxed and liable for a fine! UYou can tax your car online at www.motortax.ie - there is no need for the papers!

Thing is it ain't my car and my dad doesn't seem that bothered with it plus the fact that he's on the other side of the world. It might be still under previous owners name also.

And anyway, you need the reminder notice (to use motortax.ie) - which I don't have cause the reg cert went missing between Shannon and Dublin. It was sent for but never showed up, a replacement has been requested.

daggeredge

I think you have a legal obligation to tell your insurance company about any accidents if they require you to put in a form when renewing your insurance (utmost good faith)

Personally I'd seek legal advice from a person in the trade and ring the company and ask if u had a crash would you be obliged to report it...you'll prob. find u have 2 report it

About the megane - if u find all proper docs tax it, o/wise don't drive it! you don't know how long you'll be off the road and its only another worry to drive around with no tax (I wouldn't be able to put up with the hassle - also they've zero tolerance for tax evasion)

Clio - I'd just fix the thing...it won't be very beneficial to sell it as you won't get a lot 4 it IF anyone will buy it off you..remember you alone know the extent of the damage after it was repaired - repair bill sounds a bit hefty though....

so....

You do have another option you could sell the thing and take out a lease on a new car for a year...that way you get a new car each year...and you can weigh up your options as your financial situation changes -could work out cheaper in the long run

I know s/o with a micra who ran in2 the back of a volvo once - completely destroyed the front end of the car and it cost €2500 to fix it - and that was with most of the engine still intact....

At the end of the day its down to you anyway
hope this helps
DE

daggeredge

oh yeah my dad has a renault and replacement parts for them aren't the cheapest on the market....

mudflapgirl

Originally posted by daggeredge
About the megane - if u find all proper docs tax it, o/wise don't drive it! you don't know how long you'll be off the road and its only another worry to drive around with no tax (I wouldn't be able to put up with the hassle - also they've zero tolerance for tax evasion)

See my problem is living in Carlow and working in Dublin. There's no bus service to speak of (3 times a week- thurs, fri and sun none of which would get me to work at all) My work is being unreasonable about it and the fact that I had to miss yesterday while I arranged alternate transport was a big problem. No-one I work with lives even remotely close to me (they're all in Dublin)
Again, it is not my car, it is my father's - I am insured on it under my own policy (for the Clio) He sent of the reg cert when he bought the car (bout 2 months ago) and there's been no sign since. He requested replacement docs when he was home last week. The prob for him is that he lives in South Africa most of the year so it's hard to get things sorted on this end.

When the docs arrive, it will be taxed but until then I have absolutley no option but to drive. I can't take time off work, a car is my only way of going anywhere - even the shops, and besides I can't afford to take time of work even if I could. I'm in a situation where I have no other choice at the moment.

daggeredge

I know i keep adding but....

N.B -
If your insurance company requires you to report the accident and you don't then if you ever need to claim again and the assesor comes to look at the damage they'll be able to spot if it was crashed b4 (new front wings etc...)immediately. So if they find that you haven't told them you wont be insured in the event of another accident

daggeredge

See my problem is living in Carlow and working in Dublin. There's no bus service to speak of (3 times a week- thurs, fri and sun none of which would get me to work at all) My work is being unreasonable about it and the fact that I had to miss yesterday while I arranged alternate transport was a big problem. No-one I work with lives even remotely close to me (they're all in Dublin)

I don't want to sound like my mother here but you are breaking the law and liable to incur a pretty hefty fine....what about renting a car for a few weeks...doesn't have to be the biggest/newest car in the lot..something to get you from A to B for a paltry hundred/couple of hundred...it would cost you more than that to tax your dads car anyway..and this way your getting peace of mind

Sleipnir

You are not obliged to tell you insurance company of an accident unless it involved a 3rd party. Unless, of course you intend to claim!


The tax thing, well you have a pretty good excuse but you need to get it sorted. Call the tax office yourself and tell them to re-issue the cert. They just want the tax paid, they don't care who pays it.

ChipZilla

If nothing else was damaged apart from your Clio, just get it fixed yourself and chalk it down to experience. if you can't afford to fix it yourself, you'll have to claim.

If your Megane isn't taxed or insured, you're a dickhead - get it off the road. Next accident you have, you mightn't be lucky enough to avoid taking someone else out...

mudflapgirl

Originally posted by daggeredge
I don't want to sound like my mother here but you are breaking the law and liable to incur a pretty hefty fine....what about renting a car for a few weeks...doesn't have to be the biggest/newest car in the lot..something to get you from A to B for a paltry hundred/couple of hundred...it would cost you more than that to tax your dads car anyway..and this way your getting peace of mind

I know I am breaking the law. The €60 fine is probably easier than anything else anyway. I have no money to go renting a car - I can't actually afford to fix my own in the first place. I'd be looking at renting a car for about 2 months. I have no access to another car.

My option right now is to take my chances on the road and maybe pay a fine if I get stopped before the new reg cert arrives and it can be taxed. Or give up my job, which is not really the best way to go about things - especially when I'll be needing money to fix my own car.

daggeredge

just to add to what sleipnir says....
not all , but some insurance companies write in their own clauses that you have to tell them if you have an accident , thats why I suggested ringing them first.
check with your company!

ChipZilla

Originally posted by mudflapgirl
My option right now is to take my chances on the road and maybe pay a fine if I get stopped before the new reg cert arrives and it can be taxed.

Jesus you're f*cking stupid. Forget about the fine for not having tax. You're not insured - so if you have an accident involving somebody else, they're up sh*t creek. Any insurance company would say "The car wasn't taxed - we're not paying up". I don't suppose you have an NCT either?

Cop on and rent a car.

mudflapgirl

Originally posted by ChipZilla
If your Megane isn't taxed or insured, you're a dickhead - get it off the road. Next accident you have, you mightn't be lucky enough to avoid taking someone else out...

It IS insured (fully comp I might add) It has full NCT (passed with flying colours last friday)
I was looking for advice, not someone being an pr**k. Imagine yourself in the same situation. Your only method of transport is gone. You have NO way of getting where you HAVE to go (ie your job). And your grandmother is on her deathbed.

You make the decision.

daggeredge

seems 2 me you've your own mind made up on the tax thing b4 you even posted it!
On your head be it!

(also they can take you to court if its mixed with a couple of other offences...speeding etc)

I think your being pretty irresponsible, but its not my place to judge (no need to reiterate this to me)

seamus

Originally posted by daggeredge
I know i keep adding but....

N.B -
If your insurance company requires you to report the accident and you don't then if you ever need to claim again and the assesor comes to look at the damage they'll be able to spot if it was crashed b4 (new front wings etc...)immediately. So if they find that you haven't told them you wont be insured in the event of another accident

Meh....
Unless she's the only owner, she can feign ignorance. "It was like that when I got here", etc.
Don't worry about the tax. "It's a new car, I'm waiting on the reg cert".

daggeredge

I'm pretty sure they can stop payin out on the meganes insurance if its not taxed also (not road legal)

I'm just going to stop posting because it seems like your hellbent on breaking the law..whether you have 2 or not (not an excuse)

I wouldn't like to meet you in an accident
DE

seamus

Originally posted by ChipZilla
Jesus you're f*cking stupid. Forget about the fine for not having tax. You're not insured - so if you have an accident involving somebody else, they're up sh*t creek. Any insurance company would say "The car wasn't taxed - we're not paying up". I don't suppose you have an NCT either?

Cop on and rent a car.

...She is insured. Where did you get that from?

Insurance companies cannot decide not to pay up because the car wasn't taxed. Taxation of the car is none of their business.

Renting a car in Ireland for two months would cost in the region of €2500.

seamus

Originally posted by daggeredge
I'm pretty sure they can stop payin out on the meganes insurance if its not taxed also (not road legal)

They can't. They're obliged to cover you for all claims against you, howsoever they occur. The car doesn't need to be NCT'd either.

daggeredge

its a clause in all insurance contracts...if the vehicles illegal they won't pay out
end of story

seamus

Originally posted by daggeredge
its a clause in all insurance contracts...if the vehicles illegal they won't pay out
end of story

Nope. Not on mine. Your insurance policy is only void if your details are incorrect. It may also say something like "I confirm that my vehicle is roadworthy", which really only applies at the time of insuring, and has no bearing on taxation or certification. Roadworthy != road legal.

mudflapgirl

OK, to clear one or two things:
The car is fully insured and has a NCT valid until July 2006. The reason it has no tax is the new reg cert went missing after it was applied for (in the post we assume - it never arrived at my dad's house) replacement docs have been applied for and should be with us within 2 weeks. The car was only bought about 2 months ago.

AFAIK insurance companies don't really care if the car is taxed. They would if you have an accident - but I don't plan on having any. I'm not on the roads at high peak times (ie in work long before morning rush hour and home again before eveing rush hour) Yes, they ask if the car is in a roadworthy condition - but I moreso think they mean NCT and not falling apart - one piece of paper missing does not make a car unroadworthy. My own car is off the road for the foreseeable future so I transferred my policy to the megane (fully comp) I have had years of no claims/no accidents until sunday.

The accident I did have was a single car accident, that (it seems) was unavoidable. It was a wet road, and someone had spilt petrol/diesel/oil (whatever) on the road, the car went out of control and into a ditch. I had only been doing about 30/35mph at the time. As I waited for help/tow at least three other cars nearly went the same way mine had - besides me standing there flagging them down to go slower. Apparently the road is also notorious for people skidding into ditches.

I want to avoid claiming the damage to my own car on my insurance, in the meantime the only vehicle I have to use to go to work is my dad's megane, which as outlined above, has no tax. I had been looking for advice on my standing on the matter - seeing as it would be taxed if the docs where available. Since we are still waiting on them, I feel I have no option but to drive the car. I cannot take time off work - through rules enforced by my employer at the moment. That doesn't take in the fact that I can't afford to take the time either with needing the money to repair my car. Also my grandmother is seriously ill in hospital at the moment, being the only member of my family in the country (hemisphere to be exact) I must be able to travel to her.

It may seem irresponsible but I feel I have no option. It seems the best place to get advice would be from the Gardai direct rather than getting bashed here. They'll probably be a lot more understanding than people here. To be truley irresponsible - I caould drive my own car without getting it repaired and whatnot. Maybe then the abuse would have been justified. The car I am driving is roadworthy and insured.

seamus

Originally posted by mudflapgirl
AFAIK insurance companies don't really care if the car is taxed. They would if you have an accident - but I don't plan on having any.

Insurance companies have no authority as regards tax. It's not in their domain. Nowhere on any insurance policy or crash report anywhere does it say "I certify that the above vehicle is taxed and NCT certified (where applicable)" or "I certify that the above car fully complies with all requirements as set out by law for driving a vehicle in a public place". They can't do that. Irish law provides that once an insurance company have agreed with you to insure your vehicle, and all the particulars you give them are correct, then they are obliged to cover you for all claims against you, whether you're speeding, drink-driving, driving on the wrong side of the road, untaxed, etc. Insurance companies cannot escape their obligation because someone was driving illegally (unless stated expressly in the policy). Having a car that's not taxed, does not qualify as a car that's unroadworthy. They're two totally separate things.

The accident I did have was a single car accident, that (it seems) was unavoidable.

Food for thought that I read yesterday - we all seek to admonish our responsibility in the event of any accident. This also means that we have a resistance to changing our driving habits because we always think we're in the right. Which is why people have the same accidents, over and over. I'm not saying that it was your fault, but try to consider what you could have done yesterday, and what you can do in the future, to avoid such an incident. Regardless of circumstance, all accidents (save if your vehicle is stopped) are fundamentally avoidable.

It may seem irresponsible but I feel I have no option. It seems the best place to get advice would be from the Gardai direct rather than getting bashed here. They'll probably be a lot more understanding than people here. To be truley irresponsible - I caould drive my own car without getting it repaired and whatnot. Maybe then the abuse would have been justified. The car I am driving is roadworthy and insured.

Get herself (you know, that one sitting beside you) to ring up and enquire. That way, the insurance company won't be wise to the fact that you had the accident.

RicardoSmith

The tax office can write a letter for you to show to the cops to say that your tax is being processed. Usually thats enough to avoid a fine unless the cop is a dick. Which is always a possibility. I've had to get a letter off them a couple of times in the past. Just go into their office with all the documentaion you have, and they should give it to you there and then.

As for reporting the accident. Personally I just get it fixed myself. People should report speeding fines and other such traffic offenses and no one does. So use your judgement. Last time I did when in an accident with another car, where noone was too blame, my insurance went way up. I was told I'd get a refund after a 2 years if no claim was processed. After 2 yrs, and no claim was processed I tried in vain to get my money back.

Of course you don't need to get the car fully repaired. Just enough to make it road legal, and road worthy. You can get the cosmetic stuff fixed later. My car passed the NCT with a sizeable dent in the side of it and lots of bits missing. Drove it like that for a year as I just never had the money to get it fixed. Once theres nothing sharp that will snag someone, and its NCT passed then its pretty much legal to drive a bunch of scrap on the road.

Posting on a forum you will get all sorts of opinions. Not all of them practical in the real world.

Borzoi

Originally posted by ChipZilla
Jesus you're f*cking stupid. Forget about the fine for not having tax. You're not insured - so if you have an accident involving somebody else, they're up sh*t creek.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation I'm not happy with you mouthing off calling anybody effing stupid or a dickhead. This is enough for a banning in my opinion.

So consider this a first and final warning

Yez wanted mods - yez got mods

BrianD3

try to consider what you could have done yesterday, and what you can do in the future, to avoid such an incident.

Some people never learn though. A few months back, mudflapgirl wrote about how she crashed onto the back of another car on a greasy road. So there can be no excuses this time.

Funny, it seems that most of the accidents in wet conditions that I hear about, people blame oil on the road rather than hold their hand up and admit that they were going too fast on a greasy road. What muppets don't realise is that there's ALWAYS a thin film of oil on EVERY road when it rains. It's inevitable. It makes the road more slippery than it would be if it was just water, however drivers should be aware of it.

Accidents caused by genuine "oil spills" are rare. I know this 'cause my mate is a fireman who attends both oil spillages and car crashes.

It's like when people fail the driving test - it's NEVER their own fault. There's always some excuse eg quotas, an incompetent examiner, a hard test route etc. etc. :rolleyes:

I also don't like the attitude that accidents are "unavoidable" The vast majority of accidents are caused by human error/bad driving. The weather and road conditions do not cause accidents - drivers not taking account of the conditions cause accidents.

And as for mudflapgirl's statement that she isn't planning on having any more accidents? Well nobody plans on having an accident - they just "sort of happen" Oops I just had an unavoidable accident, how did that happen? :rolleyes:

OK end of lecture.

BrianD3

Ozzie

1 Don't worry about accident, as somone said, put it down to experience. Insurance company DO NOT need to know.

2. No matter what: tax the car ASAP!! As well as a sixty quid fine, the car could be seized from you if tax is out more than 3 months. It would cost hundreds to get it back. This is more likely to happen in Dublin as well!

3. Why not sell the Clio as is, or get it fixed and sell it and keep the Megane. I'm sure Daddy will understand. You can sort out with him down the line!

Cucullan

There is no need to report the accident to yuor insurance company, if noboby else was involved they don't need to know.
If you go to the tax office and explain the situation to them with the tax they will give you a form to put in your windscreen in case your stopped by the Gardi, you could say you just bought the car and it was off the road since the tax ran out, get a form signed by the gardi and it'll save you a couple of months road tax, otherwise you'll have to back tax it.
As for the clio I'd get it fixed and leave it in a garage till daddy gets home, drive the megane its a better car

Tommy Vercetti

Originally posted by daggeredge
I'm pretty sure they can stop payin out on the meganes insurance if its not taxed also (not road legal)

I'm just going to stop posting because it seems like your hellbent on breaking the law..whether you have 2 or not (not an excuse)

I wouldn't like to meet you in an accident
DE

jeez get off your high horse, have you even read a single word she has said???

Arrears will be paid on the tax as soon as it is possible. What's the problem with that?

alias no.9

First of all, you should have got the gardai out to the crash to see if they could find out who was responsible for the oil spill. If they could, someone else would be paying for your car. Second, how old is the car and how severe is the damage, ie what pannels are damaged? Finally, as long as the arrears are paid for the period of time you're using your fathers car, there's no problem. If you're stopped, explain to the guard that it's your fathers car and it's been off the road and you're waiting for the replacement registration documents, they'll probably give you the space of a month to get things sorted and produce the new tax disc.