Some one do this for me, im sh!te at it.

-ADREN-

Basically I'd like to put together the best spec pc possible for €700 or under.

I was thinking originaly about the XP2500 and overclocking it, then i was wondering should I just go for the Athlon 64 of some speed.

So if you could get a Athlon 64 in there, and a Radeon 9800pro it would be great. (what do ye think?, xp2500 just as well off?)

Needent include monitor.
All From Jes-comps, I think would be the best yea?

it would be great to get some line ups for a pc here, just so im not ripping my self off etc etc..

Thanks,
-Coz.

unklerosco

Do u need keyboard, mouse, spks, soft etc???

-ADREN-

no software no speakers no mouse

A really really cheap Keybored would do grand.

tman

9800 pro
xp2500+
Abit NF7-S
a gig of pc3200 (twinmos cl2.5 stuff should do the trick)
a decent case (chieftec are cheap enough considering they come with a fairly good psu)
200gb hard drive
an nec dual layer 8x dvd +/- rw drive

get all of the above from komplett.ie
should come out at about €700 after delivery

-ADREN-

You think going the xp2500 route id be better off?

What about cooling for that? If I was getting a xp2500 id overclock it and Id need a good cooling solution yea?

tman

you'll be able to cool an overclocked xp2500+ with a €30-€40 cooler
Aero 7 should do the job nicely

if you go the A64 route, you'll have sweet fa money left over for the rest of the system.
€1000 is the requirement for a good all round A64 rig in my opinion.

games like far cry will benefit more from a gig of ram and a 9800 pro than it will if you had an A64 system with 512mb and a 9600

unklerosco

get a 2500m, muschos better for overclcoking, U could save money on the ram n HD... Easy to upgrade ltr on.

try some adata ram from this place http://www.shop4memory.com/ good stuff, cheap n overclocks well. Free delivery too!!

BKtje

Amd 64 ii have found to be much superior to the XP line (especially if your a gamer). If you can afford it, go for it.

1 gig of ram is important tho and i wouldnt go for a lower gfx card than a 9800pro. If you cana fford the amd 64 after costing them then go for it imo.

Basic Prices:

cpu: 190
mobo: 100-150
1 gig ram 250
gfx: 200
heatsink ??
Case/PSU etc ??

You will be looking at a grand tho (but thats not that much more than an XP system)

The above is of course an estimate but if you get one of the new nforce 3 mobos ull get onboard sound and gigabit LAN and some other features depending on who u go with.

The choice however is yours.

EDIT: just re read ur budget and you should prob go for an XP as the amd64 will cost u that bit more.

Col_Loki

Yea you would want a bigger budget for an AMD64 system especially when you need a monitor. Obviously the A64 is going to perform very very well but its not in your price range .

Basically what tman is saying is pretty much on the ball. The ADATA ram is fantastic for P4 systems but not great for AMD ones. With an AMD the timings are the thing to watch and ADATA is for high FSB and bandwidth.

-ADREN-

MB ATX SA ASUS A7N8X-X, nForce2 € 65,99

CPU AMD Athlon XP 2500+ Tray € 77,99

DDR PC400 512MB TwinMOS CL2,5 € 83,50

128MB Sapphire Radeon 9800 Pro Lite-RTL € 195,00

DVDR IDE NEC ND-2500A +-R/RW bulk € 73,99

HDD SATA 160GB Samsung SP1614C 8MB € 92,04

17'' V7 Videoseven S70S, 70 kHz € 95,00

Tastatur Logitech Deluxe OEM € 7,99

Kühler SA Arctic Copper Silent 2L LED € 10,89


Sub-Total: € 702,39


This is what ive got lined up at the moment

Does the memory suit the system thats set up?
Is the cpu cooling suficient for an overclock?
Will I be looking at having to replace the system in less than 4 years?
Should I get some sort of cooling thingy meh bob for the Radeon?

If all is ok should i go ahead with this? its 700 not bad at all if its the right business for the money, is it?

Thanks,
-Coz.

Col_Loki

Are'nt you missing a case and PSU?
Other than that there pretty good choices.

Will you have to upgrade within 4 years? It totally depends on your needs and how much of a die hard gamer you are. Generally computers start to show there age in 1-2 years, the XP socket is already pretty old.

It will be decent performing, with pretty high gaming spec............ this will be low end in 1-2 years ish and wont be on the market for much after that IMO.

unklerosco

u should go for an artic cooler for the gfx, about €15 but well worth it, the std cooler is noisy as hell.

-ADREN-

Oh yea in regards to the case and PSu, is there a place in ireland I can get them for cheapish, and what one do you recommend for this set up?

What i mean really i guess with the money situation, is that worth the money im putting into it, will I get 700 euros worth of Performance/value back from it? (am i wasting my money )?

-ADREN-

So no one really knows then anything about what is asked in my last post ?

unkel

You'll be getting better value for money on the athlon 64 rig @ €1000 than on the athlon xp rig @ €700

Dig deeper and you won't be disappointed

-ADREN-

Jezz a grand though .. tis like 4 figures

unklerosco

Last november I got baisically what your lookin for. Same mobo n cpu only i got a 9200se instead of a 9800pro!!! I was well chuffed with it as it was my very first pc that id built from scratch. Cant rember how much I payd for it but it was value for money to me, I sold it about a month ago at minimal loss(cash wise) n upgraded to a P4 system(which i've yet to setup properly). I learnt loads from my 2500 setup, overclocking etc. At the time I didn't see the point of spending big money on a system n thought it was a waste but now its a hobby n something I enjoy doing. Best to start small n work ur way up, u learn more + theres no point in spendin €1000+ n realising u dont need it cause u wont get the money back.

U should look to get a decent case/psu/gfx/ram etc. If u decide to upgrade ltr u should get way with a new cpu n mobo.

I just got a thermaltake Xaser III n think its brill, looks r a personal taste but I dont mind cause its big, quite n big... They have smaller versions, do a search in google. I have a Zalman 300w psu. It runs everything in my case n is bloody quite... I'd recomend them.

-ADREN-

Yea i think ure right ill stick with this set up and over clock

In regards to the Case / pse thing, is there a decent cheap enough case that I can get somewhere, that has the PSU in it all ready?

And whats the story with case to any mobo fit into any case?

Should a case come with fans other than where the psu is, like in some modded boxes ive seen fans on the sides and tops etc.

Thanks,
-Coz,

Col_Loki

Have a look at chieftec cases , they have decent PSU's and are pretty good build quality. Just make sure the case is "ATX" and you'll be fine......... they are pretty much all ATX btw.

You could chance a cheap PSU&CASE combo but id advise against it , especially since your overclocking, and have a 9800pro which takes quite a bit of juice.
Getting a decent PSU will save you alot of crap in the long run, and will also avoid any PSU related problems..........

unklerosco

Col is right about the psu, i got a cheap case with a psu n it sounded like a hairdrier... Get as good a case n psu as u can cause you can keep it for ur next setup n the one after that n the one.........

-ADREN-

Hey again,

im having real difficulty finding a Case with a PSU in it for around 50 euros that will satisfy what I have in my set up at the moment.

Was wondering could some one through up a few links to cases maybe one from JEs comp, or elara or one of those palces.

Thanks loads,
-Coz.

unklerosco

http://www.komplett.ie/k/kl.asp?bn=10155&sortBy=p&minprice=&maxPrice=

Plenty there that r cheap

-ADREN-

GEH Midi Asus TA-211 weiss/silber 350W €75

Think this would be good enough, does it have sufficient cooling abilities for when I over clock my CPU?

Asus, so far rather for outstanding Main boards, drive assemblies and Notebooks admits, offers with the TA-2xx series now also high-quality housings to the fair price. The housings see simply nobly from us are outstanding finished. A high performance 350 Watt power pack and frontanschluesse rounds the good overall view off. Feature: ? Fabre: white/silver/knows? Format: ATX? Miditower housing? Mass (BxHxT): 190 mm x 425 mm x 440 mm? Weight: approx.. 8,2 kg? Power pack: Achievement 350 Watts? Installation pits: 5.25 tariff, externally 4x, 3.5 tariff, externally 2x, 3.5 tariff, internally 3x? Housing exhaust: Assembly of 1x 92mm exhaust possible? Material: Stole? Housing characteristics: Exhaust cage for 92mm exhaust. The external 3,5" Modules are hidden behind an elegant front flap.

unklerosco

From what it says it only has an exhaust fan which aint much use for cooling the case...

This n a psu would be better I think http://www.jes-computer.de/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=172_53&products_id=15413


REview here http://www.pcextreme.net/chenbro_bomb.php

I was gonna get one when i built my first system but they where to expensive back then. Toolless design is a god send. The orange panel comes off n u can easily respray it r u can buy different colour ones.

-ADREN-

Nice, ok so what PSU would you suggest I get for it, and is it hard to put psu?
Is it the Psu that will come with the Fan, or is it the case?
It say on that case :Fans Front 80mm and 90mm and Rear 80mm and 90mm

But does that mean they are included or do I have to buy another 2 fans?

:Edit:
What about this Psu
just looked at jes now
Netzteil LC Power 120mm 350W Passiv-PFC

:edit: again
ok I realise now I have to buy 2 fans to fit in there
if I got 2 of these? + the PSU and that case, am I sorted?
Lüfter Arctic Cooling fan Pro TC

unklerosco

That Psu seems to be okay, the 120mm fan in it will keep the noise down which is a good thing. Good reviews too...

U need 1*120mm fan and 1*80mm fan. I have a few blue led 120mm fans, i'll give u one for €10

http://www.jes-computer.de/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=174_23&products_id=13002

Get an 80mm like that, will look cool behind the front mesh.

Installing the psu is easy, If u need a hand with anything providing ur in dub i could give u a hand.

So have u got a final list yet???

-ADREN-

Thanks to you i think so yay

MB ATX SA ASUS A7N8X-X, nForce2 € 65,99
CPU AMD Athlon XP 2500+ Tray € 74,99
Kühler SA Arctic Copper Silent 2L LED € 10,89
DDR PC400 512MB TwinMOS CL2,5 € 86,98

128MB Sapphire Radeon 9800 Pro Lite-RTL € 195,00

DVDR IDE NEC ND-2500A +-R/RW bulk € 73,99
HDD SATA 160GB Samsung SP1614C 8MB € 89,80

17'' V7 Videoseven S70S, 70 kHz € 95,00
Tastatur Logitech Deluxe OEM (KeyBoard) € 7,99

Chenbro Gaming Bomb Orange + Window € 49,00
Netzteil LC Power 120mm 350W Passiv-PFC € 27,99
Lüfter Sharkoon Luminous Blau Temp. € 6,95


Sub-Total: € 784,57


NOt Sure about the Cpu cooler is that an Ok one for Overclocking the 2500+?

unklerosco

http://www.jes-computer.de/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=154_48&products_id=14633&osCsid=1de32cefa411444ea9f633d3b33a8c90

From what I understand from a crap translation this chip will give much better overclocking. The Mobile even more... That all depends on how much u plan to overclock... The one u've listed will have its multiplier locked, according to the site the one in the link doesn't(or else it can be unlocked)This will allow for a higher clock speed. A locked one should still clock to 3200 speeds, mine did.

The cpu cooler seems to be okay, theres better but not on that site. Again, depends on how u plan to overclock.

I'd chance spendin the extra few euro n go for the chip in the link.

You could save some cash n pick up a second hand monitor... I got a 17" in the buy n sell for €40 and a 19"(brilliant monitor)for €120... Check the for sale forum, there always poping up.

-ADREN-

But would it being a Moblie mean its hampered in some way or another incomparision to the Normal 2500xp? Or is it just the same, exect more overclockable? Will the fan I have in that set up fit the Mobile Xp chip?

unklerosco

The one in the link isn't a mobile, i presume its one of the older xps. The older ones where unlocked. They started locking them to stop people overclocking them...

The mobiles r the same only the run at a lower voltage, 1.7 it think compared to the dektops 2.3. This gives u the ability to get a much higher overclock, some people have gotton 3ghz out of them but thats only with serious cooling...

The only prob with the mobiles is that some mobos don't recognise them... You'd have to check the asus site for that.

The cooler will fit a mobile chip.

Id say the one in my link is your best bet seeing as ur new to this game...

-ADREN-

Yea ok cool I have it in there now.

Monitor Wise I just checked Buy and sell and there isnt much there..

Any other recomendations for Monitors?

unklerosco

not really, that ones grand... Put a wanted thread in the comp for sale section lookn for a 17" monitor. U never know. Could save u €50+... The weight of the monitor will hit u on shipping.

-ADREN-

Hey thanks for all this help,
so you think I should go for this set up?
Its all ok then?

unklerosco

Go for it, if u have the extra cash get this http://www.jes-computer.de/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=174_62&products_id=15973&osCsid=d142afe7a695a31eb6a5d24d0f796a5e

Well worth the extra €11.50, I have one on mine and on the low setting u cant hear it and on the high its only half as loud as the std cooler. Keeps the card allot cooler to incase u wanna oc it.

Have fun buildin the system, in a few months time you'll be tring to justify why u spend two hrs wiring the inside of ur pc to make it neater... God im sad:p

-ADREN-

Damn after missing out on that Radeon Cooler. just proccessed the order there.

Not to worry that much though right? thats only really for ocing the gfx card, which i hadnt intended to do.

Anyways thanks loads, no doubt ill need ure help again very soon :P

/me adds unklerosoc to buddy list

Cheers m8,
-Coz.

Col_Loki

The mobiles r the same only the run at a lower voltage, 1.7 it think compared to the dektops 2.3.

Pretty much right but the desktops run at 1.65v while the mobiles run at 1.45v .

Netzteil LC Power 120mm 350W Passiv-PFC € 27,99

Personally would have recomended the Tagan 380w if your overclocking, the cheaper 120mm PSU's tend to adjust badly to there heat requirements and thus run fast and noisey. Better quality PSU's have bigger heatsinks and run hotter (so the fans run slower). Mabye even change that to a 550w?

The one in the link isn't a mobile, i presume its one of the older xps. The older ones where unlocked

Actually i think its just a better stepping of the newer variety, ie people think its more lightly to hit Xp3200+ etc........ im pretty sure there still locked.

Any other recomendations for Monitors?

Theres a cheap 17" monitor on jes i think, and the shipping doesent matter too much about weight so that wont be much of a factor.

-ADREN-

Damn loki, im after going with the 350 as of last night, I put through the order .. should it still be ok enough for an over clock?

unklerosco

the one u got 'll be fine for an overclock, u may want to upgrade it down the road as u change ur system.. I overclocked my 2500 on a 300w piece of crap ps...

Col_Loki

Damn loki, im after going with the 350 as of last night, I put through the order .. should it still be ok enough for an over clock?

Its not the best PSU in the world as you should be able to tell by the cheap price . It should be better than the crap that comes with the cheaper cases but it doesent compare to some of the better brands.

That said the PSU will prob get you out, but your running a pretty high end GFX card and with overclocking thrown into the mix it might be dodgy...... who knows.

Tastatur Logitech Deluxe OEM (KeyBoard) € 7,99

Umm thats a german keyb so the Q and Z are swapped (think its Q and Z) and there are a couple of slight differences.........

-ADREN-

be dodgy

Like in what way.. does it blow up or something ?

Whats the problem with having a 350w one when overclocking?
Is it that it gets to hot or what?

Col_Loki

Ok.........

You should ignore the ratings of most PSU's, especially the cheaper ones. There cheaper for a reason. Generally they produce far less power than there rated for, take Q-Tec's for example they have roughly 70% power output of what there rated for.......... so a 350w Qtec might produce 245w.
- This can lead to restart problems
- Cold booting problems

When you get cheap PSU's you will also notice that they are generally louder than well known brands like Antec. They tend to have smaller heatsinks so need to push more cold air through it to disapate the heat. If you compare the heat comming from a Cheap PSU to a decent brand name one, you will find the cheapo will have slightly warm air comming from it, where as the Brand name is pushing out very hot air but at a lower level - thus quieter.
-Makes for a noisey machine

The other things about PSU's is there voltage rails. This is how close to the rated Voltage the PSU is actually producing. Ie the 12v Rail that powers CD drives etc........ the 12v Rail might be 11.8v actual.
The cheaper the PSU the more the voltage rails variey from what there supposed to be producing. Generally this is ok as there are certain tollerences that wont bother your hardware. With cheaper ones they dont take as much care with the rails and they tend to be further from what there supposed to be (especially under load).
- When voltage rails are out it can cause Ram errors
- Random restarts can occur from bad rails
- In extreme cases your motherboard / some components can be burned or blown



Nearlly all of this is in the Sticky and its good to read.........

The PSU you picked seems to be mabye a step up from the real cheapo versions, so you might be ok. I just dont know anything about the PSU TBH and id generally go with a name that is known to be reliable..........

unklerosco

If u go to the review link on the psu in the jes website it gets good customer reviews... As a first psu it'll be grand. But as u add more HW n try going for a silent pc you'll prob want to change it.

"you will find the cheapo will have slightly warm air comming from it, where as the Brand name is pushing out very hot air but at a lower level - thus quieter."

I noticed the difference in this with my zalman, i could nearly heat the room with the air that comes out the back but its totally silent, my first psu just blew out slightly warm air n it was loud loud loud.

-ADREN-

I see, well im not to worried if its loud, ive been living with a Dell p3 500 for the past 6 years thats pritty loud in comparison to the new pcs.

All im worried about is if it will give me the overclock I want to do on my xp2500, with out any problems. Should it do it allright?

Col_Loki

Like i said thats just something i cant answer. Mabye it will mabye it wont, its an unknown brand to me might be good might be bad. The only way to find out is to get it and try it out.

If your lucky it might be a rebranded PSU made by a bigger company, who knows. Theres not much you can do either way now so just see how she fairs when you get it.

-ADREN-

Allright so, thanks for the help, thanks to unklerosco also.

-Coz.