Interesting Story

careca

Don't think I'd like to be the other guy reading this. Interesting bit at the end about NOT discussing hands that weren't shown. Did any of you know of this rule ??

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archives/showarticle.php?a_id=14117

Hyzepher

You muck - you loose regardless.

Hyzepher

careca

Ya, but he says he can't discuss hands that weren't shown. ie. you can't say to that bloke, 'did you not see the straight on the board'. Seems a bit strange ??

Hyzepher

I dont think its a rule - he just says that its the responsibility of the other players not to point out his mistake

Hyzepher

Hectorjelly

Originally posted by careca
Ya, but he says he can't discuss hands that weren't shown. ie. you can't say to that bloke, 'did you not see the straight on the board'. Seems a bit strange ??

Once the hand is over you can tell them.

Waylander

Yeah, but the hand is not over till the chips are handed over to the winner. I do remember watching Poker Million one time, and a guy was up against Phil Helmuth with a straight draw. He did not get it, Phil Helmuth(sp?) had two pair and thought he won the hand when the first guy threw his cards on the table saying he had nothing. One of the other players, who had already folded, pointed out that the river gave this guy a flush and he had not realised it. Helmuth lost the pot and went ballistic. In fact he did not get it back together at all, and ended up out of the game a few hands later, if I recall correctly.

Hyzepher

Once your cards hit the mucked cards they are dead regardless. Before that the hand isn't over

Hyzepher

DeVore

something similar happened two nights ago with Joe. Guy was first to act against him with just the two of them still in.
The bloke bet and bet and Joe called and called and on the river he just gave up and threw his cards towards the dealer, past me in seat one. Everyone kinda thought it weird that he didnt even check or bluff or *anything* so there were some comments about it etc and the guy was adamant he was folding. Joe looks at me (we'd been kinda exchanging "wtf is this guy like" looks) and says "deaden those cards" which I dutifully did by touching them off the muck. Joe turns over 4,5 suited and has 5 high!!
Yer man just groans and when we flip his hand he has QT, giving him queen high!

Up until the cards touch other cards they are still live and you can ask for them back.
The "coin on your cards" thing isnt just for stopping the dealer taking them but it also stops your cards being dead if someone else accidentally (or on purpose!) hits your cards with theirs as they muck them.

DeV.

cormie

if someone throws their cards at yours and they connect, your hand is dead? That has to be the worst rule ever. I think one time someone went all in and threw his cards and they hit the muck pre flop (upstairs in the fitz, Gerire was at the table I dont know the full story so please explain) but it seemed really unfair.

Davey Devil

Yeah, that's an interesting rule, I've seen it enforced once or twice too, although I've also seen people been let away with it - it mainly depends on if your opponent objects. The rule is if your cards come into contact with another players cards they are deemed dead unless they are protected i.e you have a chip over them. I suppose it's to stop cheating.

gerire

Originally posted by cormie
if someone throws their cards at yours and they connect, your hand is dead? That has to be the worst rule ever. I think one time someone went all in and threw his cards and they hit the muck pre flop (upstairs in the fitz, Gerire was at the table I dont know the full story so please explain) but it seemed really unfair.

I vaguely remember this, I played a lot more back then, it was a free roll and he threw his cards and it touched the muck and the dealer told us of a situation of when a player folded his hand and while throwing it into the muck the top card flew across the table and hit another persons hand which was still infront of them but as it was 'unmarked' ie chip ontop, his hand had for all intents and purposes hit the muck and was told to throw his cards.

Thats something like it, I learnt my lesson in my first week or 2 of playing, someguy was being handed the chips but I still had my betting hand, dealer nor him saw it and I won the pot as last player standing officially. I learnt from him mess up that day, BTW He was not a happy bunny:)

Evil_Bilbo

That HAS to be the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Its practically cheating.

Seriously. If you really didnt like someone at the table, you could just say "fold" and throw your cards against his (if they dont have a chip over them). I mean - come on. For god sake - are there people actually this anal about winning a pot that they are willing to try and hold onto their cards until the winner has "mucked" his and is collecting his chips, and then to say "Oh - my cards aren't mucked yet so I win".

Please.

I love poker as much as the next guy, but this is just wrong. That b@stard who said "straight" in the story should be keel hauled - though so should the other guy for letting him do it in the first place. What the hell was that? A bluff? It really should not be allowed.

henbane

Originally posted by Evil_Bilbo
That HAS to be the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Its practically cheating.

Seriously. If you really didnt like someone at the table, you could just say "fold" and throw your cards against his (if they dont have a chip over them). I mean - come on. For god sake - are there people actually this anal about winning a pot that they are willing to try and hold onto their cards until the winner has "mucked" his and is collecting his chips, and then to say "Oh - my cards aren't mucked yet so I win".

If your cards hit the muck they're dead. That doesn't mean someone is waiting for you to muck your cards so they can lay claim to the pot. If the hand has gone down to the river and you've declared your hand, the dealer will not award you the pot until the other player has declared a worse hand or mucked. I don't see how any cheating is involved. It's your job to protect your hand - I've seen a dealer in the fitz muck a live player's cards by accident and have to award the pot to the other player involved; he wasn't happy about it but accepted that it was his job to protect his hand. Allowing cards that have touched mucked cards to be live is more likely to facilitate cheating than the way it is now.

I love poker as much as the next guy, but this is just wrong. That b@stard who said "straight" in the story should be keel hauled - though so should the other guy for letting him do it in the first place. What the hell was that? A bluff? It really should not be allowed.

It wasn't a bluff or cheating. He declared his hand with his cards face up and the other player voluntarily mucked his own cards. It's cynical but it is your job to know what your best hand is.

I once read a story on cardplayer where someone declared a better hand than they had without showing their cards and took the pot once the other player mucked. Now that's cheating to take a pot.

Marq

As anyone who sits in seat one or nine when I'm a the table will tell you, ALWAYS keep a chip on your cards. Dealers these days, they'll muck anything! particularly if you're all in

Lafortezza

I've seen a couple of old hands in the Fitz declare "Two pair" without showing their hole cards, when the board is showing two pair. e.g. KK993
They hope they'll make the other player fold (usually a noob) who doesn't realise he's refering to the 2 pair on the board. There's a couple of angle shooters in the Fitz. You'd be surprised. A couple of the old ladies are borderline cheats if they can get away with it.

mewso

Originally posted by lafortezza
There's a couple of angle shooters in the Fitz. You'd be surprised. A couple of the old ladies are borderline cheats if they can get away with it.

Yeah those 'ol dears are sneaky. They know how to get Decker riled up thats for sure

Evil_Bilbo

I know its not actually cheating, but in the case of an accident or people trying to get you to muck your cards, even though they just have whats on the table is very unsporting (if not somewhat unfair for a poor noob)

MadsL

unfair for a poor noob

This IS poker we are talking about??? Just checking.