Is this normal?

fjon

I got my car serviced about three weeks ago.
When I got it back, the mechanic said I may notice the revs would be a bit high. I sure have!
When driving normally, I would say the RPM is about 500 over what it used to be, which doesn't bother me too much. However, when I press the clutch or when in neutral, it jumps up an down from 1500 - 2500 two or three times, before resting on 1000.
While at first this was quite funny (see those pedestrians run across the road at traffic lights!), it's getting quite annoying now. The mechanic assured me it would soon go back to normal though.
Has anyone else experienced something similar?

Kersh

What car is it?

Mayshine

Hmm, now I could be wrong but....



Mechanic services car (sorta)

Mechanic takes car for quick test

Mechanic notices hanging revs - doesn't know/care

Mechanic makes up some bs to tell you to keep you off his back for a month

Mechanic hopes car will fix itself in the month


???? - Hanging revs is not particularly normal. might be something to do with the throttle body intake manifold, you should ask him what was done during the service. If all he has done is change the oil and filter and inspected the brakes etc then the car should run similar or better than when you gave it to him. I'd kick up a fuss about it

BTW what is the make model/millage?


DW

fjon

It's a Seat Ibiza, around 46K.

There was quite a bit done during the service (cost me €650 :eek: ), but most of that was to do with the brakes. The fan belt was also changed, as well as the filters and oil.

Mayshine

Any clutch work??

Sleipnir

don't think the clutch would cause the engine to rev randomly?
But then I'm no.........engine....fixing....guy.

Did he tell you why it was doing that? As in the actual reason for it?
If not, call and ask why it's happening and what will cause it to settle down.

fjon

Nothing was done on the clutch. As far as I remember he said this was to do with the filters being changed, and was quite normal after a service. I'm not so convinced now.

Sleipnir

New filters wouldn't make it jump up and down afaik.
Why would they?

fjon

Yeah, I thought that too. I think I'll give it another week, then ask the garage about it. Thanks for your help guys!

Seth Brundle

does anything happen the dash lights when this happens?

Kersh

Your problem has nothing to do with the air filter. The mechanic is full of ****e, bring the car back and tell him to fix it. I have serviced loads of cars, and never had that happen.

mike65

My first thought was something sticking but it sounds like mismanagment of the air/fuel supply. Which requires
more than a "scratch of the head" and fiddling with the air filter.

here's something similair - http://www.stretcher.com/stories/03/03aug25g.cfm

Mike.

fjon

Ok, so I managed to talk to someone in teh garage about it, and they said it had something to do with the throttle body. Apparently they had done something to it, and it woud take a week or two to reset itself. Of course he said I should bring it in so he could have a look at it.
I don't have a clue what a throttle body is - does anyone know if he is right about it or talking bollox?

fjon

Originally posted by mike65
My first thought was something sticking but it sounds like mismanagment of the air/fuel supply. Which requires
more than a "scratch of the head" and fiddling with the air filter.

here's something similair - http://www.stretcher.com/stories/03/03aug25g.cfm

Mike.

It does sound similar, but more severe. I don't notice the lights dimming, and haven't had any problems with it stalling. I have however noticed the car was a bit "jumpy" when in first gear - i.e. when stuck in traffic.

silverside

He may not be talking sh!te.

AFAIK there is a sensor chip in the throttle body which controls the air/fuel mix. If any adjustment is made to this it takes the chip a while to settle down to the new mix (as it works on a kind of rolling average system).

Now I am not a mechanic and know nothing about Seats but something similar happened me on another make of car.

Kersh

The Throttle position sensor is usually attached to thr throttle body. I dont see why he went near the throttle body to do a service. What exactly did he charge you for?

fjon

Originally posted by Kersh
The Throttle position sensor is usually attached to thr throttle body. I dont see why he went near the throttle body to do a service. What exactly did he charge you for?

Well the whole thing cost me €630, but the bulk of that was because there was some work that needed to be done on the brakes. As far as I remeber there was no mention oft he throttle on the invoice, but I can double-check tonight. I got the impression that it was done as part of a normal service.

Seth Brundle

€630???? what garage was that. Did they replace the entire braking system?
Nonetheless, there should have been no reason to touch/alter the throttle body, even if he tinkered with the engine head, e.g. valve clearances.
As said before, did you get a detailed invoice or just a piece of paper stating 'service'?

dahamsta

I used to have something like this on the mother's Daihatsu Domino (now Cuore), albeit the other way around -- every time it came back from a service it'd have a very low idle, but it always worked itself out in a few days. Could be something completely different, but I said I'd mention it anyway.

adam

Lucifer

During the service they probably cleaned out the throttle body as they can be full of crap, and as others have said about the sensors, it will just take a while to adjust to normal.

Mayshine

If it is the throttle body, then dicsonnect the battery for 20+ minutes, start the car and let it idle for 10 minute and then take it for a spin giving it some revs. If it hasn't adjusted within 10-15 miles then there is a problem.

To be honest the TB has nothing to do with the fueling. It is just a butterflt value to control the amounf of air that can enter the engine. Perhaps your mechanic was fiddling with the MAF (Mass Airflow sensor) or the TPS (throttle positon sensor both of which can contribute to dodgy revs


BTW the ECU does not need 3-4 weeks to adjust

DW

Interceptor

I still can't get over the €650 service - at a main dealer I'd guess 200 at most - can you scan the service docket and post it, I'd love a look? The hunting/flaring you describe can be caused by several things - none of which should be adjusted/touched during a standard service and your ecu takes hundreds of readings every second, so doesn't need weeks to 'reset' itself. I would bring the car back, talk to the service manager and get a clear explanation - one you understand, of what has happened and what they are going to do to fix it.

Good luck,

'ceptr

fjon

I brought it back to the garage, and it has finaly been fixed. A Temp Sensor needed to be replaced, and it is now working fine.

As for the €650 bill, here is the breakdown:

Labour €195.00
Castrol 10W40 Engine Oil x 4 €24.80
19" & 21" Wiper Blade Kit €20.64
Brkae Disc x 2 €105.42
Front Brake Pads €46.02
Battery €50.79
Pre Heat Hose €7.22
MI3000 Fuel System Cleaner €11.62
Fuel Filter €13.47
Spark Plug x 4 €17.24
Oil Filter €5.25
Windscreen Additive €1.35
Sump Washer €0.95
Air Filter €13.63
Touch Up Pain €4.62
Lighter €9.95
Fanbelt €17.18
Sundries €7.80

Hopefully won't have to spend more any more money on the car for a good while now! :rolleyes:

Fudger

sounds like a new car spec

Seth Brundle

fupp me. Was this a main dealer?
Brkae Disc x 2 €105.42
Front Brake Pads €46.02
I can repair my BMW brakes (all corners) for half that!
Battery €50.79 - had this gone?
Fanbelt €17.18 - had this gone?

BrianD3

Sounds iffy. Brake discs should last a lot longer than 46k unless you're a really hard driver. And a battery should definitely last more than 46k.

You paid 650 and they didn't even replace the timing belt (which will need to be done soon enough i.e. another trip to the garage) but they did replace the fan belt? Usually all belts are replaced in one go.

Then there's the whole business about the high revs/temp sensor problem.

Garage sound like a crowd of muppets TBH.

BrianD3

Seth Brundle

at least fwk got a detailed invoice.
Too many mechanics charge for a "full service"

Borzoi

Originally posted by interceptor
I still can't get over the €650 service - at a main dealer I'd guess 200 at most - can you scan the service docket and post it, I'd love a look?

My 10-12K service bills are typically similar to fwk's.

But then I drive an expensive car - a Saab. Mechanic is not a main dealer but a specialist Saab - main dealer was more again!

It does seem a lot for a Seat, but the breakdown would seem okay, especially given the labour, that is only 3-4 hours work.

Seth Brundle

the bulk of the items are for an basic service (oil, plugs & filters, screenwash, wipers, etc.) - 30 minutes.
Front brakes - 30 minutes altogether?
Other things - max 1 hour
that leaves 1 or 2 hours chatting, drinking tea, going outside for a smoke, going to toilet, etc.

Seth Brundle

actually, that adds up to €552.95. where was the other 100quid?
or was it 4 tubs of oil @ €24.80 each or 2 brake discs @ just over the ton each?

fjon

Originally posted by kbannon
actually, that adds up to €552.95. where was the other 100quid?
or was it 4 tubs of oil @ €24.80 each or 2 brake discs @ just over the ton each?

€78.46 VAT on top of all that. :rolleyes:
I got it done at a main Seat garage.
As for the battery, I don't think it absolutely had to be replaced yet, but I did have some trouble getting it started on cold mornings so I thought I might as well. I was told the brakes definitely did need to get done. I have not subjected the car to any real hard driving (most of my mileage would be M50), so I guess I'll have to blame the previous owner.
Aside from the incredibly high price, I do not feel too hard done by by the garage. They were very good about informing me about what needed to be done (I got two or three phone calls from them while they had the car), and whether they should proceed or not. I got a lengthy explanation of what they had done afterwards, as well as a very detailed invoice/ Job detilas slip.
Let's hope next time it won't cost half as much though!

BrianD3

46k miles is nothing for a modern car. If the battery, brake discs and fanbelt needed to be replaced at this mileage I would wonder if the mileage is corrrect. Perhaps the previous owner clocked the car?

As for the battery, I don't think it absolutely had to be replaced yet, but I did have some trouble getting it started on cold mornings so I thought I might as well.

The poor cold starting may have been caused by the fan (alternator) belt slipping and not charging the battery as well as it should. If that was the case, I would expect to change the belt but the battery should still have been OK. Who suggested changing the battery - you or the mechanic?

Anyhow, main dealer or not, they sound useless. The business with the temp sensor and telling you that the high rev problem would cure itself after a while is utter bullsh1t. Modern cars are designed to be plugged into diagnostic equipment which should tell the operator pretty quickly about any electronic problems such as faulty sensors. They should not have returned the car to you *knowing* that there was a problem with the revs. For 650 euros, the least they could do is run some diagnostics and determine the problem. PS how much was the sensor.

BrianD3

fjon

Thanks Brian ( I think)...

The sensor cost €20...

As for the battery - mechanic asked had I any problems starting the car in the cold, I said yes, and he suggested I get a new battery.

If it makes any difference, this is apparently only the second full service the car has gotten since Apr 99. Apparently the previous owner did the basics themselves (changing oil etc.), but never bothered bringing it into a garage.

BrianD3

Its hard to know about the battery situation but 20 quid is about the right price for a temp sensor. The fact that the previous owner did his own servicing is not necessarily a cause for worry. However any muppet can *claim* that he did his own servicing to try to make up for a non-existent service history.....Irish people are terrible for getting their cars serviced. Many do not bother at all, others ignore all service recommendations/intervals. I reckon a lot of this is due to a sort of throwaway, easy-come, easy-go attitude to cars because of the ease with which people can get car loans these days.

BrianD3

mike65

Originally posted by BrianD3
rish people are terrible for getting their cars serviced. Many do not bother at all, others ignore all service recommendations/intervals. I reckon a lot of this is due to a sort of throwaway, easy-come, easy-go attitude to cars because of the ease with which people can get car loans these days.

BrianD3

Nah its not that, and excuse this blow-in saying it but the real reason is the "ah sure t'will do" mentality of your elders! Benign neglect used to be a way of life here as regards cars. I think as the nation has got richer and cars posher ppl now will take the time and trouble to keep thier car in good order but some of the "old banger" thinking prolly still lurks!

Mike.

BrianD3

Nah its not that, and excuse this blow-in saying it but the real reason is the "ah sure t'will do" mentality of your elders! Benign neglect used to be a way of life here as regards cars. I think as the nation has got richer and cars posher ppl now will take the time and trouble to keep thier car in good order but some of the "old banger" thinking prolly still lurks!

Yeah it is a cultural thing too. Many Irish can't even be bothered to wash their car, let alone get it serviced Another thing is the UK has had the MOT since the early sixties which encouraged people to keep their cars serviced and in decent nick. But over here the NCT is a very recent thing. Ever notice how you almost never see a pre 85 car on the road in this country in everyday use whereas they are fairly common in the UK. I reckon if car testing had been introduced here 20 years ago, far more "future classics" from the seventies and eighties would have survived in this country. Without mandatory car testing, people just didn't give a sh1t and would drive their neglected unroadwrothy heaps into the ground.

BrianD3