[Article] Drink Sales Down

Mr E

From today's Indo:

HIGHER prices and increased excise duty have begun to hit drink sales.

New figures show that total alcohol consumption in Ireland last year fell for the first time in years.

Beer sales were down by nearly 3pc in 2003 when around 29 million fewer pints were consumed. A total of 962 million pints of beer were sold here last year.

The official figures, obtained by the Irish Independent, show that total beer consumption, including pub and off-licence sales, fell for the second year in a row - by 2.7pc.

But the biggest drop was in spirits, where consumption slumped by 21.2pc in 2003.

Consumption of spirits is calculated on the litres of alcohol, rather than the number of bottles sold. Last year 7.7m litres of spirits alcohol were consumed, down from 9.8m in 2002.

The startling figures show that alcohol sales had already peaked and were falling before the introduction of the smoking ban, which has been blamed for a switch to greater drinking at home.

These figures point to the fact that more people were drinking at home even before the ban, with wine the only major category of drink to show a solid increase in consumption.

Sales of wine here grew by a massive 8.9pc to 61 million litres of wine cleared for excise last year.

That is equal to around 76 million bottles of wine.

This was up from 56 million litres and drinkers are now knocking back nearly 12 million litres more of wine every year than they were in 2001.

The sharp drop in spirits sales was prompted by the massive hike in spirits excise in the Budget of December 2002.

Spirits sales had actually gone up by 5pc in 2002, but once the extra tax came on last year, they collapsed by 21pc.

The Government's decision to target alcopops like Smirnoff Ice and Wicked, which are aimed at younger drinkers, also seems to have worked.

Alcopops sales fell by 15.5pc last year to 502,000 litres of alcohol. Based on an average of 6pc alcohol content, this suggests around 25 million bottles of alcopops were sold here last year. That was down from 29.7 million bottles the previous year.

A similar move by the Minister for Finance in 2002 to bring the excise on cider in line with beer, hit cider sales badly that year where sales fell by 11.3pc.

Last year showed a slight improvement with cider sales lifting by 0.9pc to 74 million litres of cider.

The fall in drink consumption is not likely to hit the Exchequer take on excise too badly, given that the tax on spirits is now much higher than it was in 2002. The figures may also cloud the impact the smoking ban will have on the pub trade, because it shows that consumption of alcohol was falling before the ban anyway.

Estimates from one the country's biggest tobacco manufacturers last week suggested that cigarette sales had fallen by nearly 10pc in the first five months of this year.

If this pattern continues it will cut the Exchequer's take from tobacco excise by €100m this year.

Any indication that drink consumption is falling will come as a surprise to many. Irish consumers have doubled their spend on alcohol over the last seven years to such an extent that it tops our spend on food.

Last year consumers spent more than €6bn on alcohol - up from €3bn in 1997.

Meanwhile, it was announced yesterday that the North's only major brewery is up for sale and may close if a buyer is not found.

Around 80 people are employed in producing beer at Bass Ireland's Brewery in West Belfast's Glen Road.

Those jobs will go if a buyer does not come forward. Announcing its decision to sell, Interbrew UK said the decision had been take following an unsuccessful three-month intensive search throughout Britain and Ireland for production contracts to replace volume that will be lost at the conclusion of a soft drinks contract at the end of the year.

Sleipnir

People are finally copping on. Hopefully, pub sales will continue to fall until the publicans are begging people to come in.

Imposter

I think it'll be interesting to what the government reaction to it is. Will the publicans campaign for a reduction in Alcohol tax or will the government raise the tax to make up for the people who aren't spending their money anymore on drink? Same applies for tobacco sales. I can't see the publicans actually try to compete on price with each other for customers.

Stark

I can just hear the pub owners moaning as we speak. "Increased job satisfaction and family togetherness are poison for purveyors of mind numbing intoxicants like us." "Time to get on to the government"

Redshift

The publicans won't admit it but their greed has finally caught up with them, I used to go to the local twice a week for a few pints with the old man, now we don't bother for one reason only - it's too friggin expensive. A few cans from the off-licence and a film are just as good.
Feck them I say they made their collective beds now they can lie in them.

dudara

Same here, I would say that I go to the pub about 50-75% less these days.

spongebob

Originally posted by TmB
Sales of wine here grew by a massive 8.9pc to 61 million litres of wine cleared for excise last year. That is equal to around 76 million bottles of wine. This was up from 56 million litres and drinkers are now knocking back nearly 12 million litres more of wine every year than they were in 2001.

The Lidl and Aldi effect I'd say , there were virtually no Lidl and Aldi shops before 2001 .

The publicans/breweries/government between them have about 1-2 years to noticeably drop prices and to pull the punters back to the pubs. That means sub €3 pints of porter for starters. Pub sales have never fallen before in Ireland save during a recession when unemployment was up.

After that time a cultural shift will have taken place in Ireland towards drinking at home (and maybe out late for the one pint) and it will be too late to reverse it .......ever .

M

Ripwave

Originally posted by Muck
After that time a cultural shift will have taken place in Ireland towards drinking at home (and maybe out late for the one pint) and it will be too late to reverse it .......ever .

You mean another cultural shift.

We've already had a cultural shift that brought us from the lowest per capita alcohol consumption in the EU to the highest, in less that 20 years.

spongebob

Dunno if you remember 20 years ago Ripwave so I'll summarise a bit.

1, Most alcohol was sold On and not Off premises.
2. The country was in a shocking recession at the time, we had crossed the £1 pint barrier in 1983 IIRC. We crossed the £2 pint barrier about 1997 and the £3 barrier in 2002 or so (in Dublin anyway)
3. Wine (horrible plonk like Hock and Riesling and GutRotti) cost £6 a bottle back then while an acceptable tipple now costs E6 a bottle , a big change.

Since then we have become far more affluent while the cost of Off licence alcohol has dropped both relatively and absolutely. The cost of On alcohol has increased to a point way above that curve ......and that has been reflected in the consumption patterns On premises.

The rise in Off sales has accounted for most of the increase in consumption while the social modifiers on behaviour that are present in a Pub have been decoupled from that behaviour. Many of the manky drunks you see on the street arrive in the pub after they skull a stack of Off gargle at home. Much of the street trouble with alcohol comes from teenage bush drinkers and not pub people .

I would like to see a rebalance towards On sales but not at any price, the stakeholders such as the Government/Publicans and Breweries must share the burden equitably. The Poteen industry was destroyed by reductions in taxation on Off sales in the late 1980's

Let me put it another way. There were NO doormen in pubs 20 years ago.

M

alleepally

Mary Harney was interviewed on the Last Word this evening and the final question Matt Cooper asked was about the pub in Galway breaking the smoking ban. She finished the answer by suggesting to publicans that they should look at their prices and not the smoking ban for the drop in sales. I could hear cheers in cars all around me.

Ripwave

Originally posted by Muck
Dunno if you remember 20 years ago Ripwave so I'll summarise a bit.

Yes, I remember Ireland 20 years ago.

The point is that a lot of people have bought into some sort of propaganda that "Irish people drink a lot", and feel that they have a reputation to live up to.

There was a massive "cultural shift", to use your words, affecting Irish attitudes to drink during the 80's and 90's. There's no point trying to explain it away by saying that drink was much more expensive then, if you're now complaining about the ripoff price of drink today.

That's really trying to have your cake and eat it!

Tom Dunne

If I remember my Economics classes from way back, the laws of supply and demand state that when demand for a product increases, prices usually increase. But when prices demand drops, prices usually drop.

How is it that when the number of people drinking in pubs drop, prices actually go up? Only in Ireland...

parsi

Originally posted by tom dunne
If I remember my Economics classes from way back, the laws of supply and demand state that when demand for a product increases, prices usually increase. But when prices demand drops, prices usually drop.

How is it that when the number of people drinking in pubs drop, prices actually go up? Only in Ireland...

Maybe its a "Geffen good" - one where demand increases in spite of price increases (if I remember my economics classes of yore...)

Paladin

If I remember my Economics classes from way back, the laws of supply and demand state that when demand for a product increases, prices usually increase. But when prices demand drops, prices usually drop.

How is it that when the number of people drinking in pubs drop, prices actually go up? Only in Ireland...

Not many bar owners in your economics class then

netman

Well, quite frankly, all it takes is to have a look at the local pub to see how well they're doing... I mean, they're still packed with people, the only difference between a year or two years ago and now is that you might actually find a square inch of space between yourself and the next person.

This is ridiculous, if you go abroad and have a drink in a pub, you'll notice that there's always an empty table, the staff are friendly, you get drinks brought down to you and you don't have to queue and get splashed with beer as people try to carry their pints from the bar and you'll almost always get a snack with your drink - free.

Not to mention that you'll pay around 2 euro in most european cities for a beer. A decent beer, not some watered down recycled pisswater with a few added bubbles.

So how come these publicans all over europe are not complaining about 2 euro pints and empty tables, while the pubs at home are full? Not to mention the fact that in Ireland people drink to get drunk, not to socialize. Call it what you like, and I do apologise if I offended anyone, but here we drink in rounds, whoever's done first, we get another round. The goal is to get drunk as quick as possible, and you'll rarely get out of a pub without drinking at least 5-6 pints in the space of two hours. That's a lot of money for some poor publican, while his counterparts in europe might sell two beers at 2 euro each, because their patrons are in the pub to have a chat, not to get hammered.

So what's wrong with this picture?

We're still being ripped off, people are slowly copping on (a small amount of people I might add), and the publicans are still getting their money.. It might be coming down a stream this time instead of falling down a rapid, but you can't honestly tell me that they're not making a killing.

Let them try a real job, and see how things look from the other side. When they realise you don't get 20 grand a day handed to you, and that you have to work (gasp! work!) a whole month to get that much, they might change their mind.

And I hope that moron in Galway that allowed smoking in his pub gets closed down!

Sleepy

Originally posted by netman
When they realise you don't get 20 grand a day handed to you, and that you have to work (gasp! work!) a whole month to get that much, they might change their mind.

Can I have your job? 240K a year sounds like a great salary!

netman

Originally posted by Sleepy
Can I have your job? 240K a year sounds like a great salary!

Heh, I'm getting stupid here... 20k a year, not month, is what I meant to say

Tom Dunne

I see Alison O'Connor agrees with us:

(from the Irish Independent, 9th July):

Of course there were publicans who were struggling before and the introduction of the ban is the last straw, just like taxi drivers who genuinely suffered with de-regulation, but it has to be said that these are a minority.

Surely if things were that bad in the pub trade, we would see prices being reduced. For a crowd that say they are in imminent danger of going down the tubes, they sure seem determined to go down in style!

You no longer hear of people going to Paris and other expensive foreign destinations complaining about the price of a pint there because it's often now cheaper than at home, certainly in Dublin.

It's the exact opposite approach of the retail trade. When things are slow in that business, they reduce prices and hold sales to entice customers back in.

The succession of price increase have gone down as well as a dodgy pint with customers. Incredibly, the price of said pint is now heading towards €5 in the capital.

Guy:Incognito

i went into my regular near work in town to realise a pint of bulmers now costs €4.90, I wasnt best pleased. If publicans are having such a hard time how come they arent all in a desperate rush to sell up. Anytime a pub goes on sale they go for crazy money so if none of them are making money why are people still buying and building new pubs?

LFCFan

of course they are still making rediculous profits. The only difference now is they are not quite so rediculous but still enough to keep the owners in their Beemers and 4 holidays a year. Maybe if some aspect to their lifestyle gets threatened for real they might sit up and realise they have to reduce prices.

I was in a pub last night that I have frequented on numerous Thursday nights. Last night though the place was nearly empty. There was a load of us from work there but apart from us there was a handful of people. This time last year the place would have been packed. I would love to see some of these superpubs go to the wall but it won't happen because there is still a **** load of money being made.

wolfe25

Report in today's Indy, pub drinks down another 5.5% in April, the first month of smoking ban. It brought a tear to my eye.;)

Yoda

A can of Smithwicks costs €2.05 at SuperQuinn's in Sutton. Why would anyone want to pay €4 (or indeed €5) to have it served in a glass?

I find that I often refrain from buying things that are overpriced these days. It's a silent protest, of course. A few times I have complained at the till, but the person ringing up normally has nothing to do with it.

AngelofFire

If the publicans put the price of a pint down by about €1.50, they would do better business as more people would be able to afford to go to pubs.No pint should cost more than €3.40.

In nightclubs in Dublin the price of a pint is as high as €4.80 if not more than €5.00.

I can buy a double bacardi and club lemon up in Downpatrick for £4.50 (and thats in a posh nightclub) in a pub it costs about £3.50, yet down here the same beverage costs €13.00. in a night club and €10 in a pub.

The cost of drink is pricing people out of going to pubs, Publicans ought to stop blaming the smoking ban for their loss of business and do something about high drink prices.

seamus

This is a curious statistic:

Any indication that drink consumption is falling will come as a surprise to many. Irish consumers have doubled their spend on alcohol over the last seven years to such an extent that it tops our spend on food.

I'd be quite confident that drink prices have almost doubled, or *at least* increased by 50% in the last seven years, while nothing else has increased quite so readily.

That would, in fact, indicate that people are drinking roughly the same, maybe a little more than they as they used to, it's just the amount that's spent which has increased. Cause? Sharp increase in prices.

Publicans have no-one but themselves to blame.

Cabaal

Are they just comparing this to pub sales or off-license sales?
There's atleast 2 brand new big off-licenses open in Waterford since the smoking ban came in so somethings changed..

jor el

My brother was in a pub on the north circular in Dublin a few weeks ago (can't remember the name) but it cost €9.60 for 2 pints of Guinness. He kept the receipt as he'd never been charged that much. The best thing was, on the way in the bouncers gave them trouble with their 'regulars only' and asking for ID (both he and his friend ar 24/25) bollox, then when they got inside there were only about 10 or 12 people there. So the publicans are whinging that there are no punters any more, and the bouncers on the door are turning people away because they're not regulars! The mind boggles. Sack those damn door men and drop the price a bit, that'd get me back. I go to a pub about once a month now, sometimes less. Three years ago, I'd be in 2 or 3 times a week. During college, it'd be every night (and it'd cost no more that a tenner for any of these nights too).

LFCFan

I was in Judge Roy Beans for lunch today and on the wall was info on a sepecial offer on Vodka and Red Bull. It said, 'Sun to Wed, 2 Vodka and Red Bulls ONLY Eur10'.

When you have to wait for promotions to find a price that is still a ripoff you know how expensive it really is.

Tazz T

They aren't any real drink promotions anymore since the 'happy hour' was banned. It's flirting with breaking the law. It's amazing how fast legislation gets in to stop the price of drink going down but none to stop it going up - all in the name of 'competition'. A lot like letting the ESB to increase prices to boost competition.

However I notice an article in a Sunday paper saying that a lot of bar owners have got together to introduce a new version of Bavaria on draft that will be sold at a euro less than other lagers to encourage us back in the pub.

'Happy Shopper' lager anyone?

Ripwave

Tazz T wrote:

However I notice an article in a Sunday paper saying that a lot of bar owners have got together to introduce a new version of Bavaria on draft that will be sold at a euro less than other lagers to encourage us back in the pub.

There was a spokesperson for the publicans on the radio yesterday, saying that, if the Minister for Finance dropped 20c off the tax, they publicans would drop another 30c off their cut, bring the price down by 50c.

He said that in a country pub, a pint sells for €3.50 - €1.40 for the Government, 70c for the brewery, and €1.40 for the publican.

Which means that when you pay €4.50 for a pint in Dublin, over half of it goes to the publican, and only 15% of the price actually goes to the Brewery.

sceptre

Ripwave wrote:

There was a spokesperson for the publicans on the radio yesterday, saying that, if the Minister for Finance dropped 20c off the tax, they publicans would drop another 30c off their cut, bring the price down by 50c.

Hands up anyone who believes him

elivsvonchiaing

Ripwave wrote:

Which means that when you pay €4.50 for a pint in Dublin, over half of it goes to the publican, and only 15% of the price actually goes to the Brewery.

I think the problem here is that pubs in Temple Bar charge near or over the €5 mark. So ever publican in Dublin feels justified in charging 50c less than that - while having only a fraction of the overheads of Temple Bar. Just dunno how much the Irish Vintners assocation is to blame for this

spongebob

Ripwave wrote:

There was a spokesperson for the publicans on the radio yesterday, saying that, if the Minister for Finance dropped 20c off the tax, they publicans would drop another 30c off their cut, bring the price down by 50c.

He said that in a country pub, a pint sells for €3.50 - €1.40 for the Government, 70c for the brewery, and €1.40 for the publican.
.

1. They will not drop the prices at the same time because then they would effectively admit to being a pricing cartel. If they (asynchronously of course) dropped the price in the country pubs to €3.20 then the government should drop the excise tax by €0.20 (its more if VAT is factored in) and thereby reduce the price below €3 which is exactly what it cost me on the night before the Euro came in.

2. Dublin was always 2p more than the country in the early 80s and 10p more than the country in the early 90s , now its €1 more. The Dublin publicans have a different trade body who have not offered anybody anything yet. I think they should move first, then the country pubs and finally the government in the budget . The price of the pint should be the same at all times ........ non negotiable.

Off with ye lads.

M

pork99

It's not just Dublin you get gouged in anymore. I was in Tullamore over the weekend, I went into Loughrey's for lunch. I had steak & chips and a pint of Guiness; it cost €18!

The food was nothing special, was poorly presented and served in and off-hand, inattentive and sloppy manner. Yet the price for this privilege was 18 euro. I'm still in shock. No wonder the tourist trade is dying on it's arse.

Yet the pubs down there were packed to the rafters over the weekend. There was a festival on but I was told that they weren't much busier then they are most weekends. It's a while since I've been in pubs that full, the pubs in Dublin are noticably emptier lately. Is this because there's nothing else to do in Offaly? (as in "Q. How do you know you've been too long in Offaly? A. You're still there")