SF rise threatens US investment:Sunday Independent

arcadegame2004

Sinn Fein rise threatens US investment

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APPROACHED: Willie O'Dea



JODY CORCORAN

AMERICAN investment in Ireland is in jeopardy and key financial input is in danger of being withdrawn, as the spectre of a Sinn Fein political advance over the next 10 years becomes a reality.

The worrying economic development emerged yesterday when Minister of State in the Department of Justice Willie O'Dea revealed that he had been approached by business professionals in the Mid-West area concerned at the rise of Sinn Fein.

Mr O'Dea said that the rise of Sinn Fein was putting at risk the 120,000 jobs directly dependant on US investment and the many more jobs downstream. The Minister said that he had recently spoken to representatives of important American investors including solicitors, accountants and financial experts.

In the last 10 days alone he had received three approaches on the matter.

"These people relayed to me growing concern at the fragmentation of the Irish political system, giving rise to the emergence of the hard Left in the form of Marxist-terrorist Sinn Fein.

"This is a very worrying development and deadly dangerous for this country.

"It is no exaggeration to say it threatens to destabilise the whole economic boom."

Following on their electoral success in the European and local government elections, Sinn Fein hopes to hold a balance of power in the foreseeable future.

Although Sinn Fein's social and economic policies are unspecific, the party has admitted that if it had a role in Government, it would undertake what it describes as a "major review" of the country's taxation system.

Such a review, it says, would be completed within a year and its declared aim would be "restructuring and reforming" to achieve "equity". This is understood to mean increasing Corporation and Capital Gains Tax (from 20 per cent to 40 per cent) as well as returning employers' PRSI to 12 per cent.

Although unemployment would be the likely result of such changes, Sinn Fein insists revenues would be harnessed for "social benefit".

"If US and Canadian investors, for example, were scared off by the rise of Sinn Fein and these policies," Mr O'Dea said, "the Mid-West region which I represent could turn into an industrial cemetery."

While a spokesman for Tanaiste Mary Harney, the Enterprise and Employment Minister, said the concerns expressed to Mr O'Dea had not been made directly to her Department, the Tanaiste felt it was essential that "we keep an eye on the ball."

Ireland needs its competitive edge now that it is faced with greater competition from the new EU countries of eastern Europe, and from countries like Puerto Rico, Singapore, Switzerland and also China.

"All of these countries have preferential tax rates. So it is essential that we stay competitive. Any Left policies, based on increasing taxes, are going to undermine that competitiveness," Ms Harney's spokesman said.

Mr O'Dea, however, is certain that, specifically, the emergence of Sinn Fein in the recent elections as a political force is raising anxieties in the US. He said: "These people are coming to me - Irish advisers to international companies - and they are being asked: 'What is the situation in Ireland? We have Poles and Lithuanians competing for investment and we hear about Sinn Fein and socialism and equality and a private army.'"

He said: "It is perfectly obvious to foreign investors that Sinn Fein policies, such as they are, amount to one thing, if they ever got a chance to implement them - more taxes.

"That and statism and equality. They talk a lot about equality, but the only countries that ever achieved total equality, achieved equality of poverty. No one ever achieved equality of wealth," he said.

Does SF threaten US investment? I think so if they do what they say they would e.g. raise corporation tax to 20-40% (!:eek: !).

jmcc

A guy goes into a newagents and buys a copy of Playboy. On the way out he accidentally meets someone he knows. He says that he only bought the magazine for its insightful articles.

A guy goes into to newsagents and buys a copy of the Sunday Independent and accidentally meets someone he knows. He says that he only buys it for the pictures.

Buying one may indicate someone is a bit of a wanker but believing the guff in the Sindo confirms it.

The Sindo is a neo-Unionist rag. The story is a classic slow newsday one with the inevitable neo-Unionist slant. FF got demolished in the polls (and it may be in trouble in O'Dea's heartland if those voting patterns carry through to a general election) and it sees that SF is gaining. It now tries to claw back support by the proven fear and uncertainty tactics.

Lets see the FF spin when the only way that they can hold on to power after the next general election is by doing a deal with SF after the PDs are obliterated in the polls. I think people throughout the country are sick of seeing the PD's Dublin junta with excessive influence over this country's government. When people vote for the PDs all they ever see are the same old Dublin snouts in the trough. People have stopped voting for the PDs and they are thinking twice about voting for FF. What is important about this "story" in the SIndo is its complete lack of reference to the PDs. It is almost as if the particular FF TD is beginning the cavassing for a general election, or at least a reshuffle, early.

Regards...jmcc

AmenToThat

Even if you work from the view that the general thesis of the article may prove to be correct down the line, I hardly think this will bother people who vote for Sf anyway!

The people,who vote for SF in general are people who feel marginalised and/or who have had very little of the benefits of the "celtic tiger" and so corporation tax and overeas invetsment will have very little impact on their choice of party to vote for come the next election. Its time for a change, time for the fat cats to pay their share I say!
So bring on the "redistribution of the wealth" I say.................can you imagen the articles in the Indo then?
It will be almost worth buying.

thejollyrodger

I think its time we had major crack down on SinnFein/IRA/Mafia who are trying to kill this country.

Their policical views stem from 1920. Who wants to leave the E.U or cut ties to US investment

They supply drugs to childern and threaten the security of the state. Invovled in everything from money laundering to disel,cigarette, smuggling, costing the state millions in lost revenue!!:mad: :mad:

Mighty_Mouse

Their policical views stem from 1920.

Shock horror!!!and different to FF et al?

Who wants to leave the E.U or cut ties to US investment

Not Sinn Fein anyways!Unless you have some new statements you can link?

They supply drugs to childern

ooops no proof!! You'd think that with all the drugs the "IRA/Sinn Fein" are supplying that the guards would be able to catch even one of them with something?.........I'm guessing your source in the Indo or Sunday World?

nellieswellies

It would also be worth noting that this is coming from a man, who was on national TV under the impression that men and women get the same motor insurance rates in Ireland, a week before he was due to make representations to Europe on our behalf on the matter.

He has been more than a bit misinformed on more than one occasion.

gaelic cowboy

Originally posted by jmcc
A guy goes into a newagents and buys a copy of Playboy. On the way out he accidentally meets someone he knows. He says that he only bought the magazine for its insightful articles.

A guy goes into to newsagents and buys a copy of the Sunday Independent and accidentally meets someone he knows. He says that he only buys it for the pictures.

Buying one may indicate someone is a bit of a wanker but believing the guff in the Sindo confirms it.

The Sindo is a neo-Unionist rag. The story is a classic slow newsday one with the inevitable neo-Unionist slant. FF got demolished in the polls (and it may be in trouble in O'Dea's heartland if those voting patterns carry through to a general election) and it sees that SF is gaining. It now tries to claw back support by the proven fear and uncertainty tactics.

Lets see the FF spin when the only way that they can hold on to power after the next general election is by doing a deal with SF after the PDs are obliterated in the polls. I think people throughout the country are sick of seeing the PD's Dublin junta with excessive influence over this country's government. When people vote for the PDs all they ever see are the same old Dublin snouts in the trough. People have stopped voting for the PDs and they are thinking twice about voting for FF. What is important about this "story" in the SIndo is its complete lack of reference to the PDs. It is almost as if the particular FF TD is beginning the cavassing for a general election, or at least a reshuffle, early.

Regards...jmcc

Since it is actually Willie O Dea who is talking the cobblers in the article would it not be fair to say it is FF not sindo who is at fault.

ReefBreak

I'm glad that at least one Irish newspaper is taking on the terrorists in SF/IRA.

I also find it amusing that the only way to discredit Willie O'Dea is by shooting the messenger (the Sindo). Yet O'Dea is probably the most respected politician in the Munster region - receiving the largest proportion of 1st pref. votes in the country in the last general election. I can safely say that his record in Limerick is almost unequalled. Limerick people (even among those that would never vote FF) genuinely admire and respect him.

But at least it's becoming more clear to the slow-learners, that vote SF/IRA, what it would do to the Irish ecomony. Hello Sinn Fein, goodbye strong economic growth, low unemployment, hello poverty, misery and economic wasteland.

So bring on the "redistribution of the wealth"

You mean high taxes, don't you? We tried that for years, and it never worked.

The Sindo is a neo-Unionist rag. The story is a classic slow newsday one with the inevitable neo-Unionist slant. FF got demolished in the polls (and it may be in trouble in O'Dea's heartland if those voting patterns carry through to a general election) and it sees that SF is gaining. It now tries to claw back support by the proven fear and uncertainty tactics.

Is any paper that justifiably criticises SF/IRA a "neo-Unionist rag"? That's an old Shinner trick - call anyone that disagrees with you a "Unionist" or a "West-Brit".

Meh

Originally posted by jmcc
The story is a classic slow newsday one with the inevitable neo-Unionist slant.

How exactly did the article advocate that Ireland rejoin the United Kingdom? Or is "neo-unionist" just an intellectually lazy slur for anyone who dares to criticize SF (the equivalent of McCreevy calling all his critics "left-wing pinkos")?

ReefBreak

Originally posted by Meh
How exactly did the article advocate that Ireland rejoin the United Kingdom? Or is "neo-unionist" just an intellectually lazy slur for anyone who dares to criticize SF (the equivalent of McCreevy calling all his critics "left-wing pinkos")?

The Sindo doesn't advocate Ireland reioning the UK, but that does stop the Shinners' claiming otherwise. It's pure laziness, simply because the SF/IRA people know they can't win an economics argument where Sinn Féin are concerned, so they divert the answer.

ChipZilla

Originally posted by arcadegame2004
"This is a very worrying development and deadly dangerous for this country.

"It is no exaggeration to say it blah blah blah"

'Deadly dangerous' sez Willie. Jaysus, he's not prone to a bit of exageration at all at all, is he?.

Mighty_Mouse

But at least it's becoming more clear to the slow-learners that vote SF/IRA what it would do to the Irish ecomony. Hello Sinn Fein, goodbye strong economic growth, low unemployment, hello poverty, misery and economic wasteland.

And round around the merry go-round we go again!:dunno:

ReefBreak

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
And round around the merry go-round we go again!:dunno:

I've no problem reminding people of the destruction that the Shinner's so-called economic "policies" would do to our ecomony. And I will continue to do so, because it's bears repeating, again and again.

Mighty_Mouse

.

I've no problem reminding people of the destruction that the Shinner's so-called economic "policies" would do to our ecomony.

Yes, I nearly forgot, we live in an economy, not a society

Hobbes

Originally posted by ReefBreak
I've no problem reminding people of the destruction that the Shinner's so-called economic "policies" would do to our ecomony. And I will continue to do so, because it's bears repeating, again and again.

What are you basing that on exactly?

ruck-it

What's so absurd about pointing out that US investment would be threatened by the emergence of a far left party?

The Shinners on this thread seem only able to attack the motives of the Sindo. Not the fact that the point remains. Sinn Fein would be damaging to the Irish economy.

David-[RLD]-

lol

"But at least it's becoming more clear to the slow-learners that vote SF/IRA what it would do to the Irish ecomony. Hello Sinn Fein, goodbye strong economic growth, low unemployment, hello poverty, misery and economic wasteland."

How is becoming more clear? By Sinn Féin gaining a huge triupmh in recent elections?
<sarc>Oh yeah, everyone are really seeing how Sinn Féin will doom our economy.</sarc>

The whole point of Socialism is to stamp out poverty and provide equality, and they're both in Sinn Féin's agenda.

Sounds to me that you think that the economy controls the lives of the Irish people.

ReefBreak

Originally posted by Hobbes
What are you basing that on exactly?

I'm basing it on Sinn Féin published ecomonic policies. What else would I be basing it on? Only a fool would believe that those policies would do anything other than obliterate thousands of irish jobs, and send this country back 20 years. Ireland would be an "Ireland of Equals" alright - everyone would be equally poor and jobless.

And of course there is more to Ireland than the economy, but it wouldn't matter a damn if you can't get a job under SF's manifesto.

bug

what utter twaddle.
business investment has increased in the north where four MP's are members of sinn fein, all the investers are concerned with is that the situation up there isnt volatile and that they have a skilled work force, same as down here.

ReefBreak

Originally posted by David-[RLD]-
lol

The whole point of Socialism is to stamp out poverty and provide equality, and they're both in Sinn Féin's agenda.

Sounds to me that you think that the economy controls the lives of the Irish people.

If you want to get into an argument about left-wing socialist economics versus right wing liberal economics, then bring it on. Obviously you haven't been reading the history books. The Shinner brand of ecomomics has been tried before, and it failed. Miserably. The PD brand of economics worked so well that other parties adopted their policies. The record speaks for itself - almost full employment, and the highest growth rates in europe. If you think the SF policies would eradicate poverty, you are very much mistaken and ill-informed.

Of course, your response will now to drag up the old "gap between rich and poor" chestnut. But that's also bunkum, and the figures show this - the poor are now far more well off than at any time in our country's history. There are areas in Ireland that are still under-developed, but if you think SF could fix that with their nonsensical policies, then you're mistaken.

The best example I can think of is their published policy on private sector rent-fixing, which is communism in everything but name.

ReefBreak

Originally posted by bug
what utter twaddle.
business investment has increased in the north where four MP's are members of sinn fein, all the investers are concerned with is that the situation up there isnt volatile and that they have a skilled work force, same as down here.

And this is despite, rather than because of Sinn Féin's policies. If they actually enacted SF's policies, you can bet your life-savings that investment would have nose-dived. What do you think would happen if Sinn Féin doubled corporation tax in this country? For one thing, our tax take would slump as business and investment legged it en masse.

ReefBreak

And for those Sinn Féin supporters: Please explain to me how their nonsense economics would result in anything other than economic devastation? Please, I'm dying to know.

bug

And this is depite, rather than becuase of Sinn Féin's policies

yes..and they still relocated there.
IMO this is O'Dea launching childish, get out of my playground, b*ll*x to the media
great, when all the american investors move to south east asia, possibly like intel in the next 8-10 years, and India, we can blame sinn fein! there's a great forward thinking bit of propaganda for Bertie and the spin brigade.

for the moment I think I'll worry about the policies of the government in power at the moment.

Sand

What Sinn Fein, and all other left wing parties for that matter, know about economics could be written on the back of a stamp. Them in power is a recipe for the 1980s all over again, if not worse.

As for SFs record in NI - Im not suprised bussiness investment has increased in NI - It has been a warzone for 30 odd years. Once that war is ended to a large degree then it stands to reason investment is going to rise all other things being equal. The Republic, no doubt due in part to a lack of heavy SF influence, has not been a warzone for the past 30 years. So youre comparing apples and organges there.

Also whilst there may be 4 SF mps, thats out of how many UK mps? SF will not dictate UK economic policy and I dont think the assembly ( which is shut anyway ) has much power over the NI economy compared to Westminster. On the other hand, they could conceivably enter government in the Republic if FF go completely insane. Here they could have a real say in economic policy, here they could really sow economic disaster.

And yes, we live in an economy. Perhaps that doesnt fit with your particular idealogy but refusing to accept it wont make it any less true. To paraphrase a communist, what use is socialism if it cant put food on your table? The economy pays for *everything*. No economy, no socialist pet schemes.

ReefBreak

Originally posted by bug
for the moment I think I'll worry about the policies of the government in power at the moment.

That would be the policies that have created growth rates that are higher than any other country in Europe, with up to 6% expected this year, and another boom on the horizon? Last week must have been particularly galling for those far-lefties hearing about the current success of the Irish ecomony.

jmcc

Originally posted by ReefBreak
Yet O'Dea is probably the most respected politician in the Munster region - receiving the largest proportion of 1st pref. votes in the country in the last general election. I can safely say that his record in Limerick is almost unequalled. Limerick people (even among those that would never vote FF) genuinely admire and respect him.

And just how well did FF do in Limerick in the local elections? FF has to be seen to be on the ball and hitting at the greatest threat to their core vote is the response of any political party. There is a battle for the hearts of the floating voters to be fought out between FF and SF.

Is any paper that justifiably criticises SF/IRA a "neo-Unionist rag"? That's an old Shinner trick - call anyone that disagrees with you a "Unionist" or a "West-Brit".

No. That is one of the things that that particular paper is known as amongst journalists. Its slant has been anti-nationalist and has some visibly neo-Unionist (Cruise O'Brien and Dudley-Edwards to name two) opinion writers each week. The story is a classic "the republicans/SF/PIRA/etc are coming vote FF and we will save you" scare story designed to appeal to the chattering classes (ie the Sindo's demographic). With the entry of the Murdoch tabloids and other UK tabloids to the Irish Sundays market, the Sindo is trying hard to compete and rabble rousing is seemingly the only way that it can do so.

Regards...jmcc

BUMP!

That would be the policies that have created growth rates that are higher than any other country in Europe

Thats great, but I'd rather be able to afford a house...

jmcc

Originally posted by ReefBreak
The Sindo doesn't advocate Ireland reioning the UK, but that does stop the Shinners' claiming otherwise. It's pure laziness, simply because the SF/IRA people know they can't win an economics argument where Sinn Féin are concerned, so they divert the answer.

ReefBreak, do you believe everything you read? This story is a classic example of a TD jockeying for press coverage - unnamed sources, unknown results of actions as yet untaken. It is not journalism - it is typical of the rubbish that the Sindo is famous for. It is a non-story.

The neo-unionist slant is clear if you look at the article - "the Shinners are coming". This time the motives of the politician in question and the Sindo are running in parallel. It is not an economic argument and only the extremely gullible consider it as such. It is all about politics and this is O'Dea's attempt to keep himself in the limelight after FF's drubbing in the polls and the fact that there is a cabinet reshuffle in the offing.

As for the SF economic argument, most parties out of power have the benefit of not having to having to have a coherent economic policy. But this is not an economic argument.

Regards...jmcc

Meh

Originally posted by jmcc
This story is a classic example of a TD jockeying for press coverage - unnamed sources, unknown results of actions as yet untaken. It is not journalism - it is typical of the rubbish that the Sindo is famous for.

Agreed. It's a opinion piece masquerading as news.

The neo-unionist slant is clear if you look at the article - "the Shinners are coming".

So you're accusing Willie O'Dea of wanting Ireland to become part of the UK again? I think you're going to have to define exactly what "neo-unionist" means, as it appears to have nothing in common with the traditional definition of the term "unionist". As far as I can see from your usage of the term, it means "someone who doesn't like Sinn Féin".

Hobbes

Originally posted by ReefBreak
I'm basing it on Sinn Féin published ecomonic policies. What else would I be basing it on? Only a fool would believe that those policies would do anything other than obliterate thousands of irish jobs, and send this country back 20 years. Ireland would be an "Ireland of Equals" alright - everyone would be equally poor and jobless.

Can you post me a link to what you have read exactly. I guess a Shinner site probably?

Bug...
business investment has increased in the north where four MP's are members of sinn fein, all the investers are concerned with is that the situation up there isnt volatile and that they have a skilled work force, same as down here.

Yes that is why I am curious.

Last week must have been particularly galling for those far-lefties hearing about the current success of the Irish ecomony.

What success is that then?

ishmael whale

Originally posted by jmcc
With the entry of the Murdoch tabloids and other UK tabloids to the Irish Sundays market, the Sindo is trying hard to compete and rabble rousing is seemingly the only way that it can do so.

I thought I saw the same story in the Sunday Tribune - certainly I remember seeing O'Dea's remarks and I don't get the Sindo.

ionapaul

Who wants Ireland to become the Shinners 'Socialist Paradise' anyhow? If there is such a thing as 'class warfare' (I often hear Republicans, US not Irish that is, going off about it) it has to be middle and upper-class voters backing Sinn Fein!

edit * Indeed, same story was front page of yesterday's Sunday Tribune

Victor

Originally posted by ReefBreak
Of course, your response will now to drag up the old "gap between rich and poor" chestnut. But that's also bunkum, and the figures show this - the poor are now far more well off than at any time in our country's history.

Tell that to the homeless.

Originally posted by Hobbes

What success is that then?

Probably the 6% growth rate and one of the lowest unemployment rates in the EU which is half the the E.U rate of 9%

jmcc

Originally posted by Meh
I think you're going to have to define exactly what "neo-unionist" means, as it appears to have nothing in common with the traditional definition of the term "unionist". As far as I can see from your usage of the term, it means "someone who doesn't like Sinn Féin".

In this case it is the Sindo's slant (anti-SF/republican/nationalist etc) running in parallel with O'Dea's publicity attempt.

The neo-unionist tag essentially describes the head in the sand approach that the the Sindo and its management have had to the reality of modern Ireland for the last twenty years or so. They have tried to ignore the growth in support for SF, preferring instead the staid corruption of the big parties as if Northern Ireland did not exist as anything other than a place that was not here (here being the narrow confines of the Sindo's Dublin) and was filled with strange people. The opinion writers of the Sindo that I mentioned are well known for their unionist opinions. But how well does the Sindo sell in the Unionist heartlands?

Neo-unionism is revisionist. The Union was good for some Irish people, typically the large farmer/merchant/professional classes at the end of the 19th century. The neo-unionist slant would see the economic benefits without seeing the human suffering that went into generating these profits for the few. Neo-unionism may not particularly want to join with the UK but that does not stop it aspiring to some kind of union with the UK in the way that a dog chases a car. If the car stopped, the dog gets confused. However the UK is in the early throes of a kind of federalisation with regional assemblies. It is as if the UK is moving towards Home Rule for its regions.

The Sindo's neo-unionism is not really Unionism at all. It is essentially a kind of thought that seems to define itself by being anti-nationalist/republican while looking upon the period of the Union as being some kind of golden age for Ireland. At worst there is an element of "Croppy Lie Down" about the Sindo's continual whine about the rise SF and the damage that it will do to "modern" Ireland if it ever gets into power.

The neo-unionism of the Sindo is the last vestige of the mindset of that segment of Irish society that gained most from the Union. Weapons are easy to decommission but the mindsets take far longer. The problem is that Ireland, the UK and rest of the world has moved on while those mindsets have not.

It would be harsh to describe the Sindo's neo-unionism as just a cynical attempt to cater for a small demographic that likes to think of itself as soi-disant aristocracy. The Sindo's opinion writers seem to really believe the stuff that they write but that does not make it anything other than just an opinion.

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

Originally posted by ishmael whale
I thought I saw the same story in the Sunday Tribune - certainly I remember seeing O'Dea's remarks and I don't get the Sindo.

And who owns the Sunday Trib?

Regards...jmcc

ishmael whale

Originally posted by jmcc
In this case it is the Sindo's slant (anti-SF/republican/nationalist etc) running in parallel with O'Dea's publicity attempt.

Fine, and the reason the Sunday Tribune had the same story on their front page is they are also anti-SF/republican/nationalist etc, or is it just that they are confused.

jmcc

Originally posted by ishmael whale
Fine, and the reason the Sunday Tribune had the same story on their front page is they are also anti-SF/republican/nationalist etc, or is it just that they are confused.

Same owner - same rabble rousing but for a different demographic.

Regards...jmcc

Meh

Originally posted by jmcc
The Sindo's neo-unionism is not really Unionism at all.

So why describe it as such? What value does this phrase "neo-unionist" bring to the discussion, beyond a cheap smear based on its associations with Northern bigotry? Why not use some other term that isn't as misleading and politically loaded?

jmcc

Originally posted by Meh
So why describe it as such? What value does this phrase "neo-unionist" bring to the discussion, beyond a cheap smear based on its associations with Northern bigotry? Why not use some other term that isn't as misleading and politically loaded?

Unionism is not Northern bigotry. However the term neo-unionism is more Unionism with a small "u". If a referendum was held in the UK (excluding NI) about Ireland rejoining the Union, I don't think that the UK electorate would support such a move. But these people would still promote the benefits of the Union without analysing the disadvantages. It is purely an emotional argument than one with any basis in reality. So what term would you use to describe the Sindo's stance?

Regards...jmcc

Hobbes

Originally posted by Earthman
Probably the 6% growth rate and one of the lowest unemployment rates in the EU which is half the the E.U rate of 9%

Shame it doesn't reflect reality though. Nearly everyone I know in day to day life is either unemployed or had to take pay cuts to work.

Of course maybe life is more shiney for you, but I see a lot of pissed off people day to day. Quite a few voted for the shinners out of protest, not because they agreed with SF.

ishmael whale

Originally posted by jmcc
Same owner - same rabble rousing but for a different demographic.

Good, I just wanted to be clear that any newspaper that carries stories critical of Sinn Fein is obviously suspect and neo unionist.

jmcc

Originally posted by ishmael whale
Good, I just wanted to be clear that any newspaper that carries stories critical of Sinn Fein is obviously suspect and neo unionist.

There is a hell of a difference between rabble rousing and serious journalism. Serious journalism is fact based. The O'Dea story is just the usual Sunday newspaper op-ed rubbish masquerading as journalism.

A newspaper that runs a story on SF based on facts is not necessarily neo-unionist. However when a newspaper that has a track record of being anti-republican, anti-SF, and initially anti-peace process, runs an anti-SF op-ed piece as journalism, it is difficult to claim that it is doing so out of a non-partisan nature.

The problem is that this particular story would probably not make through the editorial process of a serious newspaper where reporting and editorial standards are higher. The big mistake that most people make is in confusing the Sunday newspapers with the daily newspapers. The Sundays are typically op-ed driven whereas the Daily newspapers are typically news driven. Scare tactics work best where they cannot be questioned and this unnamed sources/events that have not yet happened is a classic scare story designed to keep O'Dea in the limelight.

Regards...jmcc

ishmael whale

Originally posted by jmcc
The O'Dea story is just the usual Sunday newspaper op-ed rubbish masquerading as journalism.

We have a case of two newspapers publishing a story with negative news about Sinn Fein. Rather than concentrating on the story, an amount of attention seems to be given simply to one of the papers concerned.

As I’ve said earlier in this thread I don’t get the Sindo. I don’t regard it as a quality paper, but it’s not the Weekly World News. On reading the story the first question is did O’Dea actually say what he’s reported as saying? Probably. Does his statement have any basis in fact? I don’t doubt he can point to some basis for the story, but I’d suspect he’s milking it.

What significance has the story? It draws attention to Sinn Fein’s weakness in the area of economic policy, which is also the current government’s strength. This seems like a valid issue for debate. I don’t see the need to put up a smokescreen complaining about the Sindo’s editorial policy or the relative merits of Sunday vs daily papers.

ionapaul

Originally posted by Hobbes
Shame it doesn't reflect reality though. Nearly everyone I know in day to day life is either unemployed or had to take pay cuts to work.

Really? Not trying to annoy/antagonise anyone here, but honestly not one of my friends is unemployed at the moment, or has been for quite a while. We are all in our late 20s, all third-level educated. Now I'm not saying that some aren't pissed off, but not one is unemployed. I was looking for a job last month and got offered two jobs in one day, and my new boss has been complaining since I started that the employment market is such that he cannot fill all the available positions. One friend has had to endure a pay freeze for two years, but is currently interviewing on the sly with companies in England to find a better paying job.
Can anyone really say things will get better if Sinn Fein were influencing the economic climate?

bug

What significance has the story? It draws attention to Sinn Fein’s weakness in the area of economic policy, which is also the current government’s strength. This seems like a valid issue for debate. I don’t see the need to put up a smokescreen complaining about the Sindo’s editorial policy or the relative merits of Sunday vs daily papers

yes..hopefully this article, based on willie O'dee's rhetoric and not much other substance, may let sinn fein examine their economic policy and improve on it.

Stabshauptmann

Originally posted by ReefBreak
And for those Sinn Féin supporters: Please explain to me how their nonsense economics would result in anything other than economic devastation? Please, I'm dying to know.

Not a Shinner but I do feel I can answer your question.


There are two ways of attracting foreign inverstment, be a cheap operations base or be a base with skilled workforce and good infrastructure.
We have tried the cheap one but can no longer compete in that market with the emergence of china and eastern europe as viable alternatives.

So SF want to try the left approach, have a good education system and produce top notch employees and improve the countries infrastructure through increased capital spending. To do this takes money, far more than we can currently afford apparently.

SF wants to bring CPT in line with other western europeen countries such as germany and france to pay for this. France has a truelly excellent health and education system IMO that was designed in the 40s and 50s when the left was in power then and even though the right has since come to power the ppl favour mantaining these systems.
Do you honestly want me to believe that the europeen economy is on the verge of collapse?

SF have also proposed lowering VAT which would stimulate consumer buying and thus produce economic growth.

SF whish to lower the ammount of tax paid by lower income housholds. First they want to remove stealth taxes and increase PAYE so that you are paying the same tax but can see clearly where your money is going. Its called transparency and is a key part to their social policy.

Next they wish to reduce the lower tax rate and increase the higher rate (possible introduce a third rate in between, nothing definate as of yet) so that the exchequer gets the same amount of money from PAYE but wealth is redistributed in an equitable fashion.

I can see why this scares many ppl in the top 10 to 20% income bracket who are paying practically nothing as it stands and why they wish to scare the middle class in to thinking that their money is at risk when in fact they are likely to be paying less tax (if the third tax rate idea is adopted)

So ReefBreak I hope this answers your questions, SF are not going to start seizing land and property, PAYE wont be going up (for most) and CPT will be brought in line with our eurpoeen neighbours.

Ps BTW it wasnt PD policies that led to the reduction of CPT in the first place and the other tax incentives and grant schemes currently in operation, it was the rainbow coallition who started the celtic tiger, a left of centre government FYI

Victor

Originally posted by Necromancer
I can see why this scares many ppl in the top 10 to 20% income bracket who are paying practically nothing as it stands and why they wish to scare the middle class in to thinking that their money is at risk when in fact they are likely to be paying less tax (if the third tax rate idea is adopted)

That 10 to 20% actually do pay a lot of tax - it is a large group of individuals that avail of tax breaks and earn untaxable money is the real problem.

Stabshauptmann

This probably has more place in that forum Flogen mods but...

The indo isnt a right/left/centre newspaper. Its not neo-unionist or anything else. Its a paper.
The political veiws of its journalists however is a different matter.
On the right we have: Harris, Edwards, O Connor and O Hanlon. Whats interesting about these three is the lack of facts, figures and refrences. Haris has taken to writing a diary of late which last week talked about his drunken exploits?? Edwards has been out of the limlight for a bit but was back this week with a theory about how the IRA planned the drumcree problem to make unionists seem stupid. But Eilis is my favourite, she always has a quote from a facticous character which i find really funny. To prove her points she created a personality which says really stupid things and her article is so rich in sarcasm you'd really wonder if there wsa a point to what she writes.
When Brendon first came to the Indo he was funny but he has become really personal and bitter over the Iraq war that its really sad to read him. I dont like that style of journalism.

In the middle we have john Drennan. Just the facts. I cant really make anything of what he believes or thinks, he is impartial and highly informative IMHO. This week he writes about his veiws on the reshuffle.

And then on the left we find Kerrigan. There are only two ppl who have a guarenteed spot. Harris and Kerrigan. Kerrigan is usually full of facts, figures and fills in the backround that led to said events sometimes painting a picture over decades. This weeks isnt his best work but lasty week (or was the week before that) he had seferal articles, all top notch stuff. He can be impartial but it is clear what he believes.

What is clear is that it wants to be a tabloid or at least a hybrid between broadsheet and tabloid. To do this it has changed its image, reminds ppl it has the largest circulation in ireland, has taken to printing "sexy" pictures, and improved its sports coverage and then there is always Eoin Harris' diary

Yes the overall feeling you get after reading it is PD good, SF bad, ireland should be more like england which should be more like america but as Kant said count not the voices, weigh them (or something to that effect)

*Please excuse poor spelling and paraphrasing, Im in a rush.

Stabshauptmann

Originally posted by Victor
That 10 to 20% actually do pay a lot of tax - it is a large group of individuals that avail of tax breaks and earn untaxable money is the real problem.

Im thinking of an article I read in either the Indo or Trib about the % of ppl who pay no tax/ top earners who pay little tax. It was a good while ago but cant remember. Does anybody know what im talking about?

Meh

Originally posted by Necromancer
There are two ways of attracting foreign inverstment, be a cheap operations base or be a base with skilled workforce and good infrastructure.

You talk as if these two approaches are mutually exclusive. It's better still to be cheap (in terms of taxation) and have a skilled workforce and good infrastructure.

Do you honestly want me to believe that the europeen economy is on the verge of collapse?

Of course not, but I don't envy France and Germany their unemployment figures. (Apparently, Sinn Féin do though).

SF whish to lower the ammount of tax paid by lower income housholds. First they want to remove stealth taxes and increase PAYE so that you are paying the same tax but can see clearly where your money is going. Its called transparency and is a key part to their social policy.

Huh? When I pay my bin charges, I know exactly where they go.

http://www.oasis.gov.ie/public_utilities/waste_management/domestic_refuse.html?search=bin+charges
If you pay local authority waste charges, your money will go towards funding the collection service, the running of waste disposal facilities like landfill sites and the provision of recycling facilities in your area.

My income tax, in contrast, disappears into the giant government central fund.

CPT will be brought in line with our eurpoeen neighbours.

Hello Sinn Féin, goodbye jobs.