Canada

ionapaul

Not sure if this is the correct forum for this, if not feel free to move it...

Anyone ever thought about or have had a friend who has moved to Canada? I've been really thinking about it recently. I lived in California for over 4 years and loved the vibe, no visa to go back there but think I qualify for a permanent immigrant visa to Canada. I visited Vancouver before and was astounded at how lovely it was, know people from there and they all loved it. Plus I could afford a nice house there - this is a big reason behind my thoughts of leaving Ireland, I just can't justify borrowing 10x my salary for a ****ty three-bedroom in a city without a proper public transport system.
I have little problem with moving 6,000 miles away, I've done it twice before and am still in my 20s so can adapt quickly
So, anyone thought of this or know anyone who did? Any feedback? Thanks

eth0_

Why do you think you qualify for a canadian visa? It's *very* hard to get one, I know a guy who moved over there with his girlfriend last month and it took them well over a year to get a visa.
iirc they'll only give a visa to very highly skilled people, or if you're going to start a business.

Canada is great though, hoping to visit Vancouver this year. A canadian friend of mine moved back home 2 years ago to Toronto and she got a huge 1 bedroom apartment in the most gorgeous complex in Mississauga for about €120,000, And it has a huge swimming pool, jacuzzi, steam room, sauna, gym (with instructors and a masseuse there every day), 12 lane bowling alley, pool room, tv room with a cinema display thingy, computer room with broadband, 24 hour concierge etc etc!

ionapaul

There is a website run by the Canadian governmental department responsible for visa administration, and it has an online test to see if you meet the skilled worker visa level (currently need 67 points out of a possible 100). I score in the low-70s. Points given on education (luckily I would get the maximum available as I have a masters, which is ranked the same as a doctorate for some reason), language ability (with Canada's two official languages, English and French), work experience (need to match the desired list, but this is actually very broad), age, and some other stuff. Without the masters I wouldn't qualify, no way. But if you're thinking just google to find the website and the test.

Yeah, again about the housing, if I move when I am thinking of I could have saved over 40% of the current price of a decent apartment in Vancouver! Or use that for 15% of the price of a crap hole here...? Hmm, hard choice.

MrNuked

I looked into this briefly myself. Unemployment is quite high in Canada.

I know one person who moved there and he had to take a large pay cut. (He works in networking and does a little programming)....But then I met a Canadian who was doing well in Canada and found it hard to get set up here.

Probably the best thing to do would be to attain a job there before you move over properly.

2+2=5

Originally posted by ionapaul
Not sure if this is the correct forum for this, if not feel free to move it...

Anyone ever thought about or have had a friend who has moved to Canada? I've been really thinking about it recently. I lived in California for over 4 years and loved the vibe, no visa to go back there but think I qualify for a permanent immigrant visa to Canada. I visited Vancouver before and was astounded at how lovely it was, know people from there and they all loved it. Plus I could afford a nice house there - this is a big reason behind my thoughts of leaving Ireland, I just can't justify borrowing 10x my salary for a ****ty three-bedroom in a city without a proper public transport system.
I have little problem with moving 6,000 miles away, I've done it twice before and am still in my 20s so can adapt quickly
So, anyone thought of this or know anyone who did? Any feedback? Thanks

dude you've got the right idea... i spent a month in toronto last summer and fell in love with the place. i have relatives so i think i can qualify as a permanent immigrant if they agree to "sponsor" me.. which they will.

anyone thats been to Canada noticed how nicer the people are?

and its got everything.

ionapaul

After finding work in San Francisco after the tech bubble had burst and after 9/11, I am 100% confident of always being able to find work anywhere I can speak the language The great thing about degrees in the humanities is that I can apply to so many positions, from administration to operations to sales to management. It would have sucked to have been an unemployed techie for some of the years I was in California.
I know the wages are lower in Canada but if the housing is affordable and the standard of life higher, what do wages really matter?
Another boards member pm'd me that the current wait for visa processing is between 1 1/2 to 2 years, so I'd better get cracking.

rs

Family moved to Canada (nearish to Vancouver) when I was 11. Moved back (by myself) at age 20. (six years ago)

Vancouver is very nice, but job market is ok not wonderful. Most of the rest of BC is beautiful, but decent jobs are very hard to come by. (Can't speak for the rest of Canada really)

Any friends from college that have done well have gone to Vancouver. I know Van was hit very hard by tech bubble bursting and am not sure how it is doing at the minute.

If you can line up a job over there and get the company to sponsor a visa this might be the best idea. I was a landed immigrant, so never had to go through the Visa stuff.

If you just show up in western canada you'll be lucky to find full time employment. Many jobs are part time (so they don't have to pay benefits) meaning that many people work 2 - 3 different jobs to make a living. Stuff may be cheaper, but it's hard to survive on 20 hours hours a week of minimum wage work. I know plenty of people in Canada with degrees who work at video shops and bookstores.

In fairness, my parents would never leave Canada. They love the summers, and the laid back atomsphere and the fact that there is so much to do. But 3 of the 4 kids have left in search of work (2 in dublin, 1 in tokyo). Sister that lives in Canada is saving so she can move to Ireland, because she can't find a decent full time job in BC.

Parents live in a city called kelowna, 4 hours drive from Vancouver (short distance by canadian standards). Vancouvers job market would be much better, but I still don't think it is great.

I'd look into the jobs pages on vancouver websites for your industry to see what the market is like.

It's a fantastic place to live if you like hot summers, outdoor sports and activities, skiing, snowboarding etc. However, it's a crappy place to live if you can't afford to do any of these things, if you know what I mean.

subway_ie

I think this is the site with the visa test.

[edit] None's site was much better than mine. I got 67 on the test... well, by the time I finish college anyway. Barely scraped a pass.[/edit]

none

Originally posted by subway_ie
I think this is the site with the visa test.

In fact, the most reliable source of information (including the test) is here:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/

Tom Dunne

Originally posted by eth0_
hoping to visit Vancouver this year.

Just back from Vancouver yesterday and I was straight onto the Canadian immigration website this morning. I also have a masters and got into the '70s in the online test.

Vancouver is amazing. The people are so nice, laid back and I wasn't asked once "Do you guys have like, McDonalds in Ireland?" (as I have been asked on occasion in the US). Reading the Sunday papers, things are not as rosy as they were (same everywhere, I suppose). Wages do appear to be lower, but then again from my initial observations, so does the cost of living. The jobs section of the Vancouver Sun was very sparse (think Sunday Tribune jobs section in Ireland). There was also a section on housing, same deal really, posh areas almost a million Canadian dollars, other areas in the region of $200,000. Still a hell of a lot better than Ireland.

Talking to an Irish barman (of course), British Airways fly directly into Vancouver, so that is also handy. Can't wait to see the rest of Canada.

Myself and my wife are going to give Canada some serious consideration.

cerebus

Originally posted by tom dunne
Vancouver is amazing.

Yes, the city is pretty nice this time of year. In fact, it's nice any time of year (Canadians claim it is too wet in the winter - coming from Galway, I have to say I don't agree!)

We have been in Vancouver for almost 4 years now and love it. We looked long and hard before deciding where to move to, and Vancouver won hands down.

For people who are interested, the economy does seem to be looking up in British Columbia, and Vancouver in particular. The city has been awarded the 2010 winter olympics, so there will be several billion dollars worth of infrastructure projects over the next few years. This money should trickle down and give a boost to everything else. I've seen a lot more job adverts over the past 6 months (purely anecdotal - I have no evidence to back this up).

Cons: It is a long way from friends/family - 8 hours behind GMT.

Pros: Everything else I can elaborate if required...

Anyone else coming to visit? Maybe we should organize a Vancouver Boards Beer...

subway_ie

I've always wanted to move to Vancouver... but I've got to finish (Wont even start until September) college, so it'll be at least 4-5 years before I can even think seriously about it. By that point I'll probably be swamped with student loans and debt, so by then I probably won't even be applicable.

ionapaul

Well, I'm definitely going to go ahead and apply for the permanent visa, I pass the test with points to spare and so don't need a job offer. Actually it seems like most people with a degree, relevant job experience, and who can speak and write some french would pass.
I can't understand why anyone would leave Canada, America, wherever and move to Ireland at the moment - unless they are sitting on a few hundred thousand, how can they justify buying a house here? Because of the housing issue the standard of living I can expect (as someone with a master's degree and a very good saver) is rubbish compared to almost every other western country. I want to buy a home WITHOUT having to shack up with someone and WITHOUT becoming a slave to my mortgage - this is impossible in Ireland, until house prices come down. Even so, some of the best skiing in the world is one hour from Vancouver, the city has a decent public transport system, friendly people, very cosmopolitan (Dublin with its Chinese people working in Spar and McDonalds just ain't the same that way!), and stunningly beautiful. There is no comparison at the moment.

Tom Dunne

Originally posted by cerebus
I can elaborate if required...

Please do, I would really like to hear about it.

Anyone else coming to visit? Maybe we should organize a Vancouver Boards Beer...

If I have my way, I'll be back before the end of the Summer. Hold that thought!

Originally posted by ionapaul
Well, I'm definitely going to go ahead and apply for the permanent visa, I pass the test with points to spare and so don't need a job offer.

As I am in the same situation (nearly) as you, I would be really interested to hear how you get on.

subway_ie

It does say that people who get over 67 *may* be eligible for a visa - so I don't think it's guaranteed even if you do get 70+. I suppose, at least, the fact that I've got about 5 years to wait just means I can plan/save for awhile.

cerebus

Originally posted by tom dunne
Please do, I would really like to hear about it.

I'll try to give you some honest opinions on Vancouver as a place to live - not going to touch on the work/job-hunting side of things. Be warned that I quite like the place so I may be a bit biased

Like every city, it has dodgy/seedy areas. Having said that, it also has some wonderful neighbourhoods. One of the coolest things is how young it is - the city is just over 100 years old. And while it is really modern and developed, it is also still very much on the frontier - people in North Vancouver have to watch out for bears eating their garbage.

Cons:
- Distance from Ireland - 8 hours time difference does have an impact (like on a 6N match day, for example). Also, being a long way from home can be a bit of a pain at times - my wife and I have had a baby in the last year, and not having family out here has been tough.
- Flight time to Ireland - there is no direct connection. You can fly YVR to Heathrow (BA and Air Canada), Amsterdam (KLM) and Frankfurt (Lufthansa) and connect to Dublin / Cork / wherever. Air Canada fly to Dublin from Toronto, but Vancouver-Toronto is a long flight as well. During the summer there are more options - lots of charter flights to places like London / Glasgow / Manchester for example.
- Slightly heavy-handed police/public bodies. Despite the relaxed attitude to pot and the nudie-bars, Vancouver does have a bit of a reputation as "No-Fun City". This is changing slowly - later opening times for bars, etc. Do some googling and you should find various references. Some of the licensing laws in BC are pre-historic (but again, these are changing)

Pros:
Vancouver
- Consistently ranked in the top 3 of 'world best cities' as one of the best places to live.
- Amazing setting, nestled in between the Pacific Ocean and the mountains. Just beautiful.
- Great outdoor lifestyle. If you like to ski or snowboard, or mountain bike, Vancouver is probably the best place in the world to be. Whistler is pretty close (< 2 hours). Lots of other stuff that is great, including beaches right downtown.
- Culturally diverse. Huge population from around the Pacific Rim - lots of Asian influences.
- Great food - ranges from cheap and cheerful to super high-end. Excellent sushi if you are a fan. There's a wine region not too far away, and lots of great micro-breweries.
- Good public transit, amenities, cultural events
- Cheap housing (by Irish standards). Vancouver is probably the most expensive real estate market in Canada, but still a heck of a lot cheaper than Dublin. Let me know if you want to check some websites to get an idea of what places and prices are like.
- Nice downtown. Unlike a lot of North American cities, lots of people actually live right downtown - makes it a nicer place I feel. Stanley Park is tagged on the end, great place to wander.
- Smokeless bars/restaurants (though of course Ireland has got its act together on that)

Canada
- Good health service (and other services). Canada has pretty good public health care, and education, etc. isn't too bad either.
- Nice people

All in all, we're pretty happy here. Definitely prefer it to Dublin.

If there is anything else you're interested in knowing I'll do my best to answer.

Tom Dunne

Originally posted by cerebus
If there is anything else you're interested in knowing I'll do my best to answer.

I know you said you wouldn't but how did you manage with the work permit/visa arrangements? Was it a big deal? Did you have a job arranged before you went over or did you have a company sponsor you?

Could I also be really nosey and ask what profession you work in?

Thanks,

TD.

cerebus

Originally posted by tom dunne
I know you said you wouldn't but how did you manage with the work permit/visa arrangements? Was it a big deal? Did you have a job arranged before you went over or did you have a company sponsor you?

We had a slightly easier time than most. I happened to have both an Irish and a Canadian passport (accidentally really - my parents were out here back in the 70s). As a result it was pretty simple to come over. I did have a job arranged before we left Ireland.

I do know people working for various companies who are Irish/English and who went through the normal immigration route. Some got a work permit through their company first, which allowed them enter Canada and work, then apply for landed immigrancy while they were working. In most of these cases it took about 2 years after arriving for all the paperwork to make its way through the system and visas to be issued.

My wife applied for a work permit and a residents visa after we landed in Canada. The work permit came through in about 6 months, while the visa took about 2 years.

The company I work for was pretty good about helping with the visa applications, paying for spouses/family, etc. I have heard that a lot of companies will do the same thing.

Originally posted by tom dunne
Could I also be really nosey and ask what profession you work in?

I'm an engineer (ASIC/chip design). I think having a skillset like this did make it easier to find a job before leaving Ireland. I would imagine that this still holds true - it would help to have some highly-demanded skills if you are trying to organize a job before you leave Ireland.

ionapaul

AS I understand it, if you apply for and get the permanent resident visa, you can go over without a job and apply like any other Canadian for any job you like. And when you get an offer there are no masses of paperwork to go through - basically the permanent resident visa is like being a citizen, except you can't vote. Right cerebus?

cerebus

Originally posted by ionapaul
AS I understand it, if you apply for and get the permanent resident visa, you can go over without a job and apply like any other Canadian for any job you like. And when you get an offer there are no masses of paperwork to go through - basically the permanent resident visa is like being a citizen, except you can't vote. Right cerebus?

Yes - as I understand it, you can think think of the Canadian permanent resident visa as sort of like a US Green Card. A permanent resident has full rights to work anywhere they please, health care, etc. - everything except the right to vote, I believe (there may be some other subtle differences)

Like I said, there seem to be two routes to getting a permanent resident visa based on an un-scientific survey of immigrants I've met here:

1. Apply from outside Canada, wait for the 1-2 years for it to be processed then jump on the plane.

2. Organise a job, get the company to apply for a work permit. Jump on a plane straight away, apply for a permanent resident visa once you get to Canada. Wait for the 1-2 years for it to be processed, working in Canada in the meantime. Downside is having to work for the same employer while you wait for the resident visa - upside is you happen to be in Canada.

dloob

For option one you also need to have enough money to keep you going for three months, I think the minimum is about 10,000 CAD.

If you have a job then there is no requirment to have money with you.
Plus there is the advantage that you won't run out of money while looking for a job.

That's something I would be worried about if I went out without a job organised in advance.
You don't want to have to come home broke after a few months.

rs

Originally posted by cerebus
Yes - as I understand it, you can think think of the Canadian permanent resident visa as sort of like a US Green Card. A permanent resident has full rights to work anywhere they please, health care, etc. - everything except the right to vote, I believe (there may be some other subtle differences)

That's correct. As a Landed Immigrant (permenant resident) you can work anywhere, use all public services (schools, healthcare, etc) and do pretty much everything else a canadian citizen can do.

However,

You cannot vote.

You also lose your Landed immigrant status if you leave Canada for longer than 6 months. I learned this one the hard way.

But to become a Canadian citizen you have to swear allegiance to the queen of England

vector

Originally posted by rs
...queen of England

The actual term used in the oath is "Queen of Canada", which is perhaps more acceptable .