Fired for calling in sick

eth0_

A friend of mine has been working part time in a service station (starting with an 'M') for about 3 months. She's never called in sick in all that time until Friday. She showed up for work the next day and was informed they were firing her.

Isn't this illegal? It was only one day so she didn't need to give a doctors cert.

Also, she - along with all the other part time staff - were paid cash in hand. No PRSI or tax was paid on their earnings at ANY point. She often worked from 3pm-11.30pm and was expected to be in at 7am the next morning for work. I'm pretty sure that's breaking the working time directive also.

I'm going to tell her to shop them to ENTEMP, but is this confidential and anonymous?

silverside

she is entitled to minimum notice of a week, or whatever it says in her contract. (I think).

eth0_

Originally posted by silverside
she is entitled to minimum notice of a week, or whatever it says in her contract. (I think).

Doubt she was even given a contract. The thing is though, how the hell can you be fired for calling in sick? She did nothing wrong...she WAS sick, and any company i've worked for you only needed a doctors cert if you were out of work for three days or more!

Man Time

If she was getting cash in hand she doen't have a leg to stand on. Unless she rats on them, it's probably what I would do if they did that to me.

eth0_

Originally posted by Man Time
If she was getting cash in hand she doen't have a leg to stand on.

ALL the part time staff were on cash in hand. If I were her i'd report them to the revenue, Entemp and the head office of M***L.

Our man in Havana

Originally posted by eth0_
A friend of mine has been working part time in a service station (starting with an 'M') for about 3 months. She's never called in sick in all that time until Friday. She showed up for work the next day and was informed they were firing her.

Isn't this illegal? It was only one day so she didn't need to give a doctors cert.

That's correct its only on the 3rd day is a cert required.

Also, she - along with all the other part time staff - were paid cash in hand. No PRSI or tax was paid on their earnings at ANY point. She often worked from 3pm-11.30pm and was expected to be in at 7am the next morning for work. I'm pretty sure that's breaking the working time directive also.

You are to be given at least 11 hours rest between shifts. If she finished at 11.30PM then the earliest time she could be made come in is at 10.30am the following morning.

I'm going to tell her to shop them to ENTEMP, but is this confidential and anonymous?

I wouldn't bother with them. I will take a min of 8 months from them to get off their asses and investigate and they are pretty toothless. It is not anonymous as they need the name and address of the employee to do anything.

Best option is to call the revenue. They will move faster than you can say "unpaid Tax". The revenue have more powers and teeth and they are not afraid to use them!

eth0_

Originally posted by Bond-007

Best option is to call the revenue. They will move faster than you can say "unpaid Tax". The revenue have more powers and teeth and they are not afraid to use them!

Cool, will do. Hope she goes through with ringing them, I can't believe a big company like M***L would let their service station managers get away with this.

DrEvil

I can't believe a big company like M***L would let their service station managers get away with this.

Like alot of petrol stations in ireland, it is probably not run or owned by Maxol

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check out http://oasis.gov.ie it's a website run by the goverment and has all the offical info you would need.

Oasis (Online Access to Services, Information and Support) is an Irish eGovernment website developed by Comhairle. The site provides information on the social and civil rights of everyone in Ireland. Oasis provides you with information you may need at various stages in your life. The Service Finder allows you to find public services in your locality and our Frequently Asked Questions section answers questions you may have about public services in Ireland.

jongore

She's screwed, she was working cash in hand (against the law in the first place), so if she reports them she could get caught for not paying tax on her earnings.

eth0_

Originally posted by jongore
She's screwed, she was working cash in hand (against the law in the first place), so if she reports them she could get caught for not paying tax on her earnings.

From what i've heard, the revenue are kind to people who grass up companies that are fiddling the tax. Anyway, i'm sure she can call them anonymously.

seamus

Originally posted by jongore
She's screwed, she was working cash in hand (against the law in the first place), so if she reports them she could get caught for not paying tax on her earnings.

If she was only part time, it's pretty likely she's not even taxable on her measly earnings.

As eth0_ says, the Revenue are more reasonable than people make out. As well as that, even if she does owe tax, it's going to be a miniscule amount, and nothing even approaching what the service station would owe.

eth0_

Originally posted by seamus
If she was only part time, it's pretty likely she's not even taxable on her measly earnings.

She should have been taxed, she was working about 30 hours a week.
Also, when I say she wasn't 'taxed' I mean it wasn't going through the book at all, so there was no PRSI paid either.

seamus

Originally posted by eth0_
She should have been taxed, she was working about 30 hours a week.
Also, when I say she wasn't 'taxed' I mean it wasn't going through the book at all, so there was no PRSI paid either.

If she's earning less than €287 per week, she doesn't pay PRSI. Her employer is obliged to pay it on her behalf. So unless she was earning more than €9.50 per hour, she doesn't need to worry about getting stung for PRSI. However, she's not covered under social insurance....

eth0_

Originally posted by seamus
If she's earning less than €287 per week, she doesn't pay PRSI. Her employer is obliged to pay it on her behalf.

Yes, I know that. That's the whole point. That it wasn't going through the books. TBH I don't think she cares about having had no PRSI paid for her, she's more interested in getting them back for treating her so unfairly.

seamus

Originally posted by eth0_
Yes, I know that. That's the whole point. That it wasn't going through the books. TBH I don't think she cares about having had no PRSI paid for her, she's more interested in getting them back for treating her so unfairly.

That's probably why - most of their staff would be under the limit, so he was probably trying to be a crafty bastard and avoid PRSI :rolleyes:

Definitely worth shopping him in.

Lump

If she didn't sign a contract, well she won't get **** all. The reason for signing contracts isn't just for the employer, but also for the employee. She never signed agreed that she would be given one weeks notice, or had to submit a cert after three days etc etc. The contract I signed for another Norwiegen (Spelling) fuel company is about 60 pages long.... Well the full contract. It goes into detail about getting sacked. In this company you get a verbal warning, 3 writtens and then the next time you are out the door. However if you get two written warnings and nothing happens for 6months after you recieve the previous waerning then all warnings are put in the bin and cancelled.

She was working cash in hand. It is her responsibility to be paying income tax, unless stated in a CONTRACT that the company will pay it for here. It is a dodgy area, as many companies haven't set up a professional pay package. We use Micro Pay - mega pay (Paypath) For example I paid €16.49 tax last week. AFAIK if that hadn't been taken out of my account directly I woul have to declare it to the Revenue commisioner at the end of the tax year. IE I earn €12,000 euro a year, and then I would have to pay.... €500 in tax or what ever.

I am only going on my experience.

John

seamus

Sorry Lump, but...

Originally posted by Lump
If she didn't sign a contract, well she won't get **** all. The reason for signing contracts isn't just for the employer, but also for the employee. She never signed agreed that she would be given one weeks notice, or had to submit a cert after three days etc etc.

There are certain minium entitlements - a minimum contract as specified in Irish Law. Whether this contract is written or not, is irrelevent, it applies anyway. She is entitled to a minimum of one week's notice, unless she's been working there less than 13 weeks, or she has been deemed guilty of gross misconduct. Without a contract, the employer has no right to demand a sick cert for days off, but the employee cannot claim payment for these days. In any case, the employer has no grounds for dismissal, unless this is an ongoing thing (ringing in sick every Sunday morning after being out on the jar, for example)

She was working cash in hand. It is her responsibility to be paying income tax, unless stated in a CONTRACT that the company will pay it for here.

Nope. The company is obliged to pay tax on her on earnings, on her behalf. Her only obligation is to provide the company with her PPSN and P45 or Tax Credits cert, to ensure she gets taxed properly. If they're not paying tax and/or PRSI on behalf of their employees, they'll land themselves in the ****.

AFAIK if that hadn't been taken out of my account directly I woul have to declare it to the Revenue commisioner at the end of the tax year. IE I earn €12,000 euro a year, and then I would have to pay.... €500 in tax or what ever.

This much is true. It is still someone's own responsibility to ensure that (in theory) they have paid adequate tax on every single piece of income they have made. While a business can still get in trouble for not deducting tax from an employee's pay, at the end of the day, the employee has to pay any arrears.

KdjaCL

She would get about 1000 in the labour court may have to act dumb like "i didnt know i wasnt paying tax" .

But shes better off calling the the labour courts they really nice people.

kdjac

Cake Fiend

Feign ignorance re. tax, claim she only figured it all out when she got (illegally) sacked, get them fscked.

Alternatively, threaten to shop them and see what she can get out of the bastards (then shop them anyway)

Victor

Originally posted by silverside
she is entitled to minimum notice of a week, or whatever it says in her contract. (I think).

By law, only if she's been there 3 months or if it she was granted the right in a contract, which she appears not to be the case

Originally posted by eth0_
Doubt she was even given a contract. The thing is though, how the hell can you be fired for calling in sick? She did nothing wrong...she WAS sick, and any company i've worked for you only needed a doctors cert if you were out of work for three days or more!

The three day thing is widely misinterpreted. If you are out of work for 3 days or more, you are entitled to Disability Benefit. If you are sick for less than three days you are entitled to nothing, not from social welfare, not from your employer. An employer can reasonably ask for an explanation of any missed hours and a doctors note is not an unreasonable standard to ask for.

eth0_

Originally posted by Victor
The three day thing is widely misinterpreted. If you are out of work for 3 days or more, you are entitled to Disability Benefit. If you are sick for less than three days you are entitled to nothing, not from social welfare, not from your employer.

Oh I know that. She wasn't even thinking about sick pay. My point was that an employer isn't allowed to ask for a sick cert until the employee has been out sick for three or more days - that's right, isn't it?

p.pete

Originally posted by eth0_
Oh I know that. She wasn't even thinking about sick pay. My point was that an employer isn't allowed to ask for a sick cert until the employee has been out sick for three or more days - that's right, isn't it?

I think that Victor was implying that that isn't right - if someone is asked to provide evidence of being sick then a sick note could be considered quite a strong piece of evidence.

Of course it would be nice for the employer to outline their expectations if they are going to be that stringent...

MarkR

Sick pay is at the employers discretion, and they can request a cert by prior arrangement, but not after the fact. I think.

seamus

Originally posted by Victor
An employer can reasonably ask for an explanation of any missed hours and a doctors note is not an unreasonable standard to ask for.

A doctor's note for a day's sickness is highly unreasonable IMO. Who goes to the doctor when they wake up sick one morning, and they're fine the next? If he has no intention of paying her for her day off sick, then I would feel that the employer has nothing else but to give her the benefit of the doubt. A doctor's cert would cost her more than her day missed of work. I'm pretty sure any court would side with the employee.

eth0_

A lot of doctors actually won't give sick notes for a single days sickness, and you can kind of understand why.

Our man in Havana

Originally posted by eth0_
A lot of doctors actually won't give sick notes for a single days sickness, and you can kind of understand why.

My doctor would laugh at you for asking for a sick cert for 1 day and then charge you €45 for the visit! His min is 3 days sick.