You keep bashing and we'l keep growing

Villain

Well as we get nearer the results it looks like Sinn Fein will gain a lot of local seats, they could go as far as doubling there previous number.

There also in with a chance to win a seat or 2 in the European election.

So keep bashing Sinn Fein because they will keep growing and growing.

Go on the shinners!!!!:p

sceptre

Originally posted by irish1
So keep bashing Sinn Fein because they will keep growing and growing.

I thought the current thinking was that SF were growing because of their significant community involvement?

Nothing to do with bashing then?

billy the squid

Looks as though they might tripple their number of seats not double going from 4 seats to 11 seats according to RTE radio

Deacon Blues

Isn't it the shinners who do the bashing ??? Paving slabs, baseball bats ...

Cork

SF really have not a problem with IRA activity.

It is a pity that sections of the Irish electorate don't either.

But at least SF won't still be claiming legitimacy from the 1918 election.

Raskolnikov

Originally posted by Deacon Blues
Isn't it the shinners who do the bashing ??? Paving slabs, baseball bats ...

It's comments like that and McDowell lies that'll only serve to increase the Sinn Féin vote yet further. If McDowell and his cronies stuck to real political debate with Sinn Féin policies and aims then maybe the PD's might have actually won some local election seats. Then again, maybe McDowell wants to play Sinn Féin at their own game of vigilante, saddle 'em up cowboy! If Sinn Féin members are guilty of law-breaking then it's the duty of the police to punish them, not McDowell.

as an aside to Spectre, community involvment? What community involvement, if it exists, it's non-existant in Cork.

flogen

Originally posted by Raskolnikov
If Sinn Féin members are guilty of law-breaking then it's the duty of the police to punish them, not McDowell.

good point.
Sinn Fein are popular for 2 reasons, the first being their republican image, and the fact that all bar stool republicans vote for them thinking they'll get Ulster back under the Republics control.. the problem is, this is a relatively small base (thankfully), and thats why they were stangate for so long.

The second reason is that Sinn Fein seem to say exactly what the people need to hear, and with their bits and bobs they seem to be the only party doing anything, they have a hands on approach (for example, they'll come and mow a pensioners garden when the council is too lazy to). Its a fresh approach in Irish politics, and it seems to be working. Another example of hands on approach is the fact that I got a letter from Gerry Adams (yeah... from :P) the other day, telling me that it was my first election to vote in and that, it was a brilliant idea IMO, engaging young people, even in such a simple way as a mass produced letter. Naturally, its just another way to get votes, but its original, and gives people the impression that they give a fúck (which naturally is debatable).

now I'm not a Shinner, but I have to hand it to Adams, he knows what he's doing, and hes turning them around from a bunch of hardline republican loud mouths into a respectable party that seems to be doing something. Obviously, it will be hard for them to get away from their past (and present), but so far, they've come a long way.

Let me also point out that I wouldnt have much faith in SF if they were in government, naturally they could do a great job, but it suits them to be kept out in the cold for the moment at least

Flogen

mike65

While on one level its a bit depresing so many will look past the Provos crimes and misdemeanors on another SF being elected is maybe good. One feels the gloss will rub off as they are compromised by boring everyday politics.

Mike.

sceptre

Originally posted by Raskolnikov
as an aside to Spectre, community involvment? What community involvement, if it exists, it's non-existant in Cork.

Oh, I haven't actually noticed any. In any case SF didn't have a candidate in my ward, though someone from RSF did. I think I gave him a tenth preference ahead of the two PD hopefuls, neither of whom I've ever heard doing anything at all apart from putting their names down on the ballot. However, anyone I've heard on boards or in real life (yes, that place) saying they might vote for SF has tagged on a "community involvement" reason so assuming they're telling the truth about their reasons they may well be doing something somewhere (or they may not and what they're doing may or may not be good but there certainly isn't one here doing anything either). I'm not going to vote for SF (or anyone else) just to show plonkers like McDowell though. If I did that with my vote I might as well just stay at home and try to finish that final level in Speed Freaks.

Villain

Originally posted by Cork
SF really have not a problem with IRA activity.

It is a pity that sections of the Irish electorate don't either.

I think people care about local politics when they vote on local elections, and as it has been mentioned the SF party on the ground is working hard and doing something for people, which is quite refreshing based on their peers.

People come on here and bash SF over and over again on the same topics, because they know they can't argue with active politics, it looks like SF have been given a chance by the people of Ireland, I believe they will take that chance and move forward.

Another interesting thing coming out is PD's failure, I think there attack on SF was wasted and people saw it for what it really was, a cheap stunt.

BuffyBot

People come on here and bash SF over and over again on the same topics, because they know they can't argue with active politics

Well, I'm sure time will tell when we see what the "active" Sinn Fein actually do with their new found seats.

Cork

Originally posted by irish1

People come on here and bash SF over and over again on the same topics, because they know they can't argue with active politics, it looks like SF have been given a chance by the people of Ireland, I believe they will take that chance and move forward.

People vented their anger at the government. But come the next election , SF will need to do more than wrap the green flag around them.

Hopefully, SF will not see their newly found council seats as some kind of endorsement of an illegal army that they have links to.

flogen

cork, I think that you saying this was a venting of anger against FF is like Labour in the UK saying their loss was due to Iraq. There are many reasons why both parties did badly, and its because they have failed to live up to their promises, and have made some serious over their term.

SF may not be the best alternative, and you may not like them, but give them more credit than saying they used the 'Ireland for the Irish' tag to get votes, I think this election showed their furthest stance from this image for some time.

Flogen

Rock Climber

Originally posted by irish1
it looks like SF have been given a chance by the people of Ireland,

Oh fair play to them yes, they have done well, (compared to their last outing) in the council elections and from a low base they've increased their vote to about 10% or so...(RTÉ exit poll as the full results aren't out yet)
But lets not get carried away here- that means that 90% of the Irish people did not as you put it give them a chance...
More people for instance voted no in the referendum than voted SF and it's being hailed as an outstanding yes result.

Cork

Originally posted by flogen
because they have failed to live up to their promises, and have made some serious over their term.
Flogen

Unemployment is at a 18 month Low. Tax revenue is 2 billion over budget. We have great growth rates. Strategic plans are in place with regards health.

I think people have very little to gripe about with regards to the economy. Public spending is under control and this countrys infrastructure is getting massive investment.



Yet people were angry at the government? Our economy is the envy of our EU neighbours. Governments tend to loose support mid term.

Ireland has climbed to become the fourth most important destination for US manufacturers investing overseas, according to a new study by Deloitte.

In fact - put the record of this government up aganist any previous Irish government? This is probably the best government this country ever had. Bertie & Mary should make an ad for calsberg.



Info used in this posting

Originally posted by Cork
Bertie & Mary should make an ad for calsberg.

The funniest line I've ever read from you cork

Please put that in your signiture!!!
( actually can I put it in mine as a quote from you )

therecklessone

Originally posted by Cork
Unemployment is at a 18 month Low. Tax revenue is 2 billion over budget. We have great growth rates. Strategic plans are in place with regards health.

I think people have very little to gripe about with regards to the economy. Public spending is under control and this countrys infrastructure is getting massive investment.



Yet people were angry at the government? Our economy is the envy of our EU neighbours. Governments tend to loose support mid term.

We are the most expensive country in the EU to live in.

Public infrastructure projects are consistently over-budget and late.

We have yet to see the promised 2000 extra Gardai, but at least we'll have a few stations closed down at night...:rolleyes:

Decentralisation will not work. Furthermore, it was inherently flawed from day one, and was a text book example of parish pump politics.

Average house prices have rocketed under this government.

Public transport is a joke.

Much done, more to do? Don't make me laugh...

Cork

More houses are been built in this country than ever.

House prices are largelydetermined by supply and demand. Could you name another EU country that this is not the case?

We are the most expensive country in the EU to live in.

And when the government try to introduce competition - Trade Unions moan & groan.
"Public transport is a joke".

Public Transport is a joke. We need comprtition to bring down prices and to provide a better service.

Decentralisation will not work

Neither has centralising services in Dublin. Regionalisational is needed.

Putting all government departments into Dublin did zero for regionalisation.

Sparks

Well, SF seem to have effectively taken over the city council in Dublin now, so if nothing else, we'll now get to see their actual policies instead of the rhetoric. Can't throw rocks when you're in charge of things, and all that...

Me, I'm expecting more of the same, with the added bonus of burning out drug rehab centres, and enforcement of bin charges with both gardai and unofficial heavy mobs, but then I'm a pessimistic sod...

therecklessone

Originally posted by Cork
More houses are been built in this country than ever.

By whom?

Originally posted by Cork
House prices are largelydetermined by supply and demand. Could you name another EU country that this is not the case?

No. Can you name another EU country which comes even close to the level of profiteering that exists within the housing masket in this country? This government needs to address the extortionate cost of building land, and the drip-drip release of such land to meet investors needs, not the needs of prospective homeowners.

• House prices have trebled. In 1997, the average price of a new house was
€97,000. Now it is over €300,000.
• House prices have increased by 9 times the rate of inflation; 5 times the rate of
increase in average earnings and 4 times the rate of increase in the cost of
building.
• A house which takes 100,000 to build, costs 300,000 to buy! That gap opened
up in the last seven years, under Fianna Fáil and the PDs.
• Nearly half of all new families can not now afford to buy a home. According to
the Local Authority Housing Strategies, 33% of new families nationally, 42% in
urban areas and 50% in Dublin can not afford to buy!
• The numbers on Council Housing lists have doubled, up from 26,000 in 1996 to
over 60,000 now. Less than 5,000 local authority houses are being built each
year. It was 8,000 under Labour in the mid-eighties, when the country was much
poorer.
• There are twice as many homeless as in 1997.
• They have failed to legislate to give basic legal rights to private tenants. The
Report of the Commission on the Private Rented Sector has still not been
implemented, four years after its publication!
• Under the Partnership Agreement with the social partners, the Government
agreed to provide an additional 10,000 Affordable houses. To date, none have
been built, none started and none even designed!

Source:http://www.labour.ie/download/pdf/labour_local_manifesto.pdf

therecklessone

Originally posted by Cork


And when the government try to introduce competition - Trade Unions moan & groan.
"Public transport is a joke".

Public Transport is a joke. We need comprtition to bring down prices and to provide a better service.

Well, why doesn't your government do its job and force these changes through then? Is it because Bertie wants to be all things to all men? You know what they say about Jack of all trades, master of none...

We need investment in public transport and a realisation that it is the only viable answer to traffic congestion in our cities. And it needs to be affordable and attractive to its users (so no €4 parking fee for LUAS park and ride facilities please and thank you.)

Originally posted by Cork

Neither has centralising services in Dublin. Regionalisational is needed.

Putting all government departments into Dublin did zero for regionalisation.

You should have a word with the British then, I think they might have had something to do with putting the means of administration in our capital city...

Cork, even you have to admit the proposed decentralisation is flawed, and driven by political concerns rather than what will be best for this country. And it still won't happen, mainly because the government have yet to realise that making the move voluntary means that they will get few volunteers, especially among middle and senior management.

Like I said, a lot done????

Cork

Dublin Bus routes are being opened up. Why should Bus Eireann and Aer Rianta have monopolys where the customer gets less than satisfactory service.

This will soon change. You would not get this from "socialists".

Why is the Department Of Agriculture in Dublin? Centralising government services in an already overed crowded city is mad. We live in 2004 - with video conferencing technology not in the dark ages.

I think that the governments plan to decentralise will suceed.

Now, getting back to SF. SF are probably the new DL. When they take up elected office - they'll be dealing with road bumps, drains & weeds.

I wish them well & I hope that SF stay on the democratic path. I hope they will support institutions and organs of the state.

Nuttzz

The FF/PD governemt have brought the country out of the dark ages IMO, SF economic policies are the exact opposite of what brought so many jobs to the economy.

A "right wing" governemnt broiught in a minimum wage, unthinkable 20 years ago

In any case the views here are not representative, 51% said they would vote yes to citizenship referendum however in reality nearly 80% voted yes, just because you have a computer and an opinion doesnt mean squat (and that applies to my own too)

Sarky

Originally posted by Cork
Unemployment is at a 18 month Low.

From my own experiences, this could well be because the horrendous amount of hassle involved in getting an unemployment application through, never mind actually getting it approved, makes it several orders of magnitude easier to find a job and eke out an employed living slightly above the poverty line.

oscarBravo

Originally posted by Raskolnikov
If Sinn Féin members are guilty of law-breaking then it's the duty of the police to punish them, not McDowell.

When did punishment become the job of the police?

nlgbbbblth

so what is the story with We Ourselves and the way in which they brandish tricolours at polling stations when celebrating an electoral victory

the rest of us are just as proud to be Irish but don't feel the need to jump around with the national flag.

also: I was in a pub in Dublin last year where the local branch of We Ourselves were having a meeting. Quite a few of them had Celtic tops on. Surely you would have thought that such staunchly republican and nationalistic people such as the members of We Ourselves would support Irish teams such as the real hoops, Shamrock Rovers as opposed to their plastic Scottish counterparts

ecksor

Was that post in aid of proving irish1's point?

nlgbbbblth

Originally posted by ecksor
Was that post in aid of proving irish1's point?

:rolleyes: what do you think?

ecksor

I'm not sure what to think, I'm just saying what it looks like.

David-[RLD]-

Originally posted by nlgbbbblth
so what is the story with We Ourselves and the way in which they brandish tricolours at polling stations when celebrating an electoral victory

the rest of us are just as proud to be Irish but don't feel the need to jump around with the national flag.

also: I was in a pub in Dublin last year where the local branch of We Ourselves were having a meeting. Quite a few of them had Celtic tops on. Surely you would have thought that such staunchly republican and nationalistic people such as the members of We Ourselves would support Irish teams such as the real hoops, Shamrock Rovers as opposed to their plastic Scottish counterparts

Why use the English translation of Sinn Féin? After declaring war on Irish or something?

AngelofFire

Originally posted by irish1
I think people care about local politics when they vote on local elections, and as it has been mentioned the SF party on the ground is working hard and doing something for people, which is quite refreshing based on their peers.

People come on here and bash SF over and over again on the same topics, because they know they can't argue with active politics, it looks like SF have been given a chance by the people of Ireland, I believe they will take that chance and move forward.

Another interesting thing coming out is PD's failure, I think there attack on SF was wasted and people saw it for what it really was, a cheap stunt.

you`re right. Im not a big fan of republicanism myself but i gave both sinn fein candidates in my area a high enough preferences. i was impressed with their genuine commitment and enthusiasm to help my area and their track record.

AngelofFire

Originally posted by Nuttzz
The FF/PD governemt have brought the country out of the dark ages IMO, SF economic policies are the exact opposite of what brought so many jobs to the economy.

No the FF/PD government just happened to be in the right place at the right time.Tell the people on hospital waiting lists and the twice as many homeless as there is since 97 that FF/PD are doing a good job

It was the rainbow coalition that negotiated the 12.5% corporation tax rate,attracting foreign investment thus creating jobs.

Zaph

Sinn Féin have benefitted from major dissatisfaction with the incumbent government parties and the genuine lack of any real alternative to them. These results are partly pro-SF and partly a protest vote and it remains to be seen if they could ever replicate them in the future after having done their stint on the various local councils.

Personally I'm glad there are none of them on my local council, and I would have even accepted just handing every seat to any other party of your choosing to keep it that way. The reason I say that is because as much as people here try to be apologists for them and say that they're doing great work locally, you then have Gerry Adams appearing on RTE a short while ago "reminding" people that "the Irish people want an end to British rule on the island of Ireland". And there I was thinking that local councillors would be concerning themselves with roads, waste management and that sort of stuff. Shows how much I know...

therecklessone

Originally posted by zaph
Shows how much I know...

Or it shows how Gerry never misses a chance to make a party political broadcast. Maybe he's just trying to make up for all that time spent under Section 31...

I was fairly pi*sed off to hear Adams on the radio yesterday doing the same when all the other contributors were trying to discuss the elections themselves. He couldn't even get Richard Bruton's name right. I did like Bruton's response to Adams goading him on FG's record in government regarding housing when he told Gerry that they could talk about the history of their respective parties if he wished, but he'd prefer to deal with the here and now. Shut Gerry up quick smart...:D

AmenToThat

Great to see SF doing so well, good base nationally now to work from so I cant see why the party dont continue to grow and grow.

Gael

Sorry just for my information. How many council seats did SF have before this election?