Claiming off company insurance

Bigshot

Hi All
Could be the wrong place for this but couldnt think of anywhere better.

I work in a video shop and was in work on tuesday evening at about 6.30 when a scumbag came behind the counter with a stanley knife and made me open the til. he was a bit disapointed with his take (around 100 euro). He made me get in the back of the shop and closed the door behind him on the way out and told me to stay in their for a few seconds while he left the shop.

On the way out he must have spotted my ipod sitting behind the counter cus when i came out it was gone too. I rang the gardai and did all the neccesary stuff like signing a statement and telling them what was taken and the value of everything including my ipod.

i pressumed that i would be able to claim back for my own personal property but was just informed by head office that personal property is not covered by their insurance. I dont really trust them so was just wondering if anyone had any previous experience with something like this or would have any advice on how to resolve the matter.

Thanks for any help.

dudara

Often there is an excess in place on personal property. About two years ago I had a discman and about 20 CDs stolen from my desk in UCC. However, insurance didn't cover it as there is a ridiculously large excess in place here. If a personal laptop or anything similar gets stolen, then insurance doesn't cover it.

Bigshot

The ipod is worth around 500 euro. even if their was an excess would i be able to claim up to the amount that personal property is covered for? Even though it might not be the full price of what i lost defending their crappy shop it would be something.

dudara

the excess here in UCC for personal property is something like E20,000. In other words, E20,000 worth of stuff would have to be fecked before you could get a penny back.

talk to your boss and find out the exact details

leeroybrown

They'll probably try to weasel their way out of it. Most employers will refuse to cover any personal property stolen from their premises. They may also have a clause in their insurance policy excluding employees property to reduce the costs.

Ultimately, an insurance issue like this is down to the insurer and policy.

seamus

Afaik, there's no onus on an employer to insure your personal property, unless it's something you're required to use in the course of your work.

My advice, if you have expensive pieces of equipment such iPODs or laptops, is to have them insured yourself. Some places may do a personal liability insurance, which can cover you against personal losses from theft, etc, or from damage you cause (say if you spilled coffee on someone's laptop).

Even under most home insurance policies, they won't cover equipment over a few hundred euro unless it's specifically included.

lodgepole

Why was your iPod sitting behind the counter? Since it wasn't there for work, i'd imagine your employer's insurance policy wouldn't cover it.

Bigshot

Why was your iPod sitting behind the counter? .

Thats a bit of a silly question. Did you ever here of somebody who walks to work listening to a walkman. when they get their they might leave it down somewhere rather than having it sticking into their leg in their pocket. If your suggesting I was listening to it and therfore why should my bosses cover me for it your wrong.

Thats not the issue here. I was threatend with a knife and robbed while in work. If it happened at home id be claimin for it under the houses insurance but the fact is it happened in work so i cant do that. So i was wondering why i couldnt claim off the shops insurance.

seamus

Originally posted by Bigshot
Thats a bit of a silly question. Did you ever here of somebody who walks to work listening to a walkman. when they get their they might leave it down somewhere rather than having it sticking into their leg in their pocket. If your suggesting I was listening to it and therfore why should my bosses cover me for it your wrong.

I bring an mp3 player into work, and only gets put on the desk beside me if I'm plugging it into my computer. Otherwise it sits in my jacket in the press. Surely the shop has lockers/a cloakroom?

Thats not the issue here. I was threatend with a knife and robbed while in work. If it happened at home id be claimin for it under the houses insurance but the fact is it happened in work so i cant do that. So i was wondering why i couldnt claim off the shops insurance.

The key here is that no-one can insure someone else's risk. So if you were in your mate's house, and your iPod was robbed from you, it's not covered. The only reason you can claim off your home contents insurance is because the risk was yours to insure (but this extends to cover the risks of family living under your roof). A shop cannot insure an employee's personal items, because the risk is not theirs to insure. They cannot make a claim from their insurance company for your lost iPod, because they haven't lost anything. You have.
As I say, even under home insurance, there's a good chance you'd only get a certain figure (say €300) for you iPod, and not the full amount, depending obviously on your policy.

Bigshot

I bring an mp3 player into work, and only gets put on the desk beside me if I'm plugging it into my computer. Otherwise it sits in my jacket in the press. Surely the shop has lockers/a cloakroom?

1: It was a hot evening so had no jacket.
2: The shop does not provide us with lockers or a staff area just a toilet.
3: If the shop had lockers do you not think i would have used them.


Thanks for the advice though atleast now i know where i stand in the eyes of the law.

lodgepole

Originally posted by Bigshot
Thats a bit of a silly question. Did you ever here of somebody who walks to work listening to a walkman. when they get their they might leave it down somewhere rather than having it sticking into their leg in their pocket. If your suggesting I was listening to it and therfore why should my bosses cover me for it your wrong.

I wasn't implying, I was just wondering. I know that I am very careful about where my mp3 player sits when i'm not using it. In a work situation it should be completely out of view/reach of both you and the customers. You could easily leave an iPod in your pocket while you're working. Having it robbed is a hard way to learn that lesson.

Sherlock

I'd expect the employer to pay for the Ipod as it wasn't exactly lost by accident.If the guy had his wallet robbed by the scumbag at knifepoint surely you wouldn't expect him to be at a loss so whats the difference?.
Not that I'd suggest it but I'd say theres a few people who'd be seeing a solicitor now putting a claim in for trauma suffered in the robbery.

lodgepole

Originally posted by Sherlock
I'd expect the employer to pay for the Ipod as it wasn't exactly lost by accident.If the guy had his wallet robbed by the scumbag at knifepoint surely you wouldn't expect him to be at a loss so whats the difference?.
Not that I'd suggest it but I'd say theres a few people who'd be seeing a solicitor now putting a claim in for trauma suffered in the robbery.

If it was on his person though... Insurance can be strict about that. When I was in college if I wanted to take a camera off college grounds it was only insured if it was in my possession, I had to be holding it before whatever happened.

seamus

Originally posted by Sherlock
I'd expect the employer to pay for the Ipod as it wasn't exactly lost by accident.If the guy had his wallet robbed by the scumbag at knifepoint surely you wouldn't expect him to be at a loss so whats the difference?.
Not that I'd suggest it but I'd say theres a few people who'd be seeing a solicitor now putting a claim in for trauma suffered in the robbery.

The difference is that the employer cannot be held liable for the robbery taking place, i.e. it wasn't their fault. Suing an employer for trauma suffered in a robbery is a bit like suing a rape victim for trauma if you saw the rape taking place. Why should the employer pay for his iPod?

Even by your own admission - if he was robbed on the street at knifepoint, he's left with nothing, save if they catch the criminal. It's ****e sure, but what are you gonna do?

Bigshot

Just got off the phone with head office. The insurance def doesnt cover it. Its a s**t one but hey the little guy always gets the shafting at the end of the day.

Suing an employer for trauma suffered in a robbery is a bit like suing a rape victim for trauma if you saw the rape taking place.

What the hell is that supposed to mean. My health and safety is purely under the control of the company is it not. If you saw a rape you are not put directly in any danger but if someone put a knife in your face and forced you to do things against your will then surely you are put directly in danger. I work on my own late at night with no security (not even cameras) this is the fault of the company and something surely that they are liable for. Even if i dont get anything out of this surely the ethical thing to do would be to pay for my lost property. But i understand that the words business and ethics dont really go hand in hand so am prepared to except the fact that i just got f***ed.

seamus

Originally posted by Bigshot
What the hell is that supposed to mean. My health and safety is purely under the control of the company is it not.

They have some minimum obligations. Security of your property isn't one of them. You as an employee also have some minimum oblgations for your own health and safety. My point there was that the company is also a victim here. You can't find a victim liable for a robbery.

If you saw a rape you are not put directly in any danger but if someone put a knife in your face and forced you to do things against your will then surely you are put directly in danger. I work on my own late at night with no security (not even cameras) this is the fault of the company and something surely that they are liable for.

Well, no. There is no such thing as an inpenetrable security system. As such, in order to find the company liable, a court would have to rule that "This robbery occured because the company had provided inadequate security". Of course, once this precedent is set, then every company that ever gets robbed becomes liable since security that gets penetrated becomes inadequate security.

Even if i dont get anything out of this surely the ethical thing to do would be to pay for my lost property. But i understand that the words business and ethics dont really go hand in hand so am prepared to except the fact that i just got f***ed.

Don't get me wrong, I sympathise. But why do think it's the company's responsibility at all? The iPod was your responsibility. You brought it in, you left it sitting on the counter. There was no reason for it to be with you at all. It's crap that it was robbed, but that's robbery. It sucks.