PR Question

kida

Hi I'm new to the politics board.

I have a quicky for somebody regarding the whole PR system.

Which would cause more harm to a candidates chances of being elected?

Assume 9 candidates and 9 entries on ballot paper and there are 3 you don't want to support in any way

1. Only voting for your top 6 and leaving the rest blank.
2 Putting all 9 in reverse order

For 2 will the people who you put 6&7 have a chance of getting a transfer?

Thanks

therecklessone

Originally posted by kida


For 2 will the people who you put 6&7 have a chance of getting a transfer?

Simple answer: yes.

Theoretically, your vote can transfer all the way down to the last preference you indicate on the paper. Give a preference to all 9 candidates means one of those 9 will get your vote. Its the one way of ensuring your vote will definitely count. If you exclude certain candidates then there is a chance that your vote will become non-transferable at some stage of the count.

If you really don't like a particular candidate then don't vote for them. Simple as that.

bonkey

Originally posted by kida
Assume 9 candidates and 9 entries on ballot paper and there are 3 you don't want to support in any way

Then don't vote for them. Once your vote runs out of people to be transferred to, it won't be counted any more.

However, if - of those three - there is one who you most particularly don't want to get elected (i.e. I don't support A and B, but I can live with either of them getting elected as long as C doesn't get in), then you want to have C in last place, so you want them to have your ninth preference.

Not voting for three out of nine people is effectively the same as giving them all a joint 7th place vote. Voting for them gves them a 7th, 8th and 9th placing, so you can express who you dislike most.

At least, thats how I understand the system to work. I could - of course - be wrong.

jc

The Rooster

I recommend continuing your preferences all the way down.

The way the PR system works, your vote can never be transferred to the 9th person (if there is 9 candidates) and it would be unlikely to count as far as 7 or 8 - but not impossible - it depends on who you voted for and they way the counts have progressed.

But if your vote does go to your 7th choice, that means all your first 6 choices have either been voted in or eliminated and there is one (or maybe even two) seats left. If you end your vote at number 6, then you have no say in who gets the remaning one or two seats. But if you do vote 7 and 8 then you will have a say. So even though you might dislike 3 candidates it is worth continuining your preferences down all the way, as you'll probably dislike one worse than the other. And givinig the candidate you dislike the most your number 9 vote has a certain satisfaction!

therecklessone

Originally posted by bonkey
Then don't vote for them. Once your vote runs out of people to be transferred to, it won't be counted any more.

However, if - of those three - there is one who you most particularly don't want to get elected (i.e. I don't support A and B, but I can live with either of them getting elected as long as C doesn't get in), then you want to have C in last place, so you want them to have your ninth preference.

Not voting for three out of nine people is effectively the same as giving them all a joint 7th place vote. Voting for them gves them a 7th, 8th and 9th placing, so you can express who you dislike most.

At least, thats how I understand the system to work. I could - of course - be wrong.

jc

I'd be more inclined to recommend not indicating the 9th preference in that example, if that candidate gets elected then at least it won't have been with your vote!

Seriously, indicating a 7th and 8th preference is enough, and if neither of those candidates gets elected then #9 gets in anyway, so why bother voting for him if you dislike him that much?

[edit]just re-read previous poster's comments which make sense. If your 7th and 8th preferences are eliminated then #9 gets in automatically, so voting/not voting for him makes little difference. I still get more pleasure out of not voting the bas*ard in though...[/edit]

whosurpaddy

sorry, im completely lost here. what is it to "transfer a vote" and under what cirumstances does it occur

The Rooster

Take a simple example. 3 candidates and only 1 seat.

You vote:

1 Labour
2 Fine Gael
3 Fianna Fail

Result of first count:

FF 10000
FG 7000
Labour 6000

The Labour candidate is eliminated. So all the votes for Lab are examined to see who was their second choice. Your vote, for example, would be transferred to the FG candiate as he was your second choice.

So of the 6000 Lab voters, lets say 4500 had FG as no2, 1000 had FF as no2 and 500 only voted for Labour 1, with no second choice picked out. Those 500 end up having no say in whether the FG or FF person is elected.

The result after the second count is:

FF 10000+1000 = 11000
FG 7000+4500 = 11500

The FG candidate is therefore elected, thanks in no small way to vote transfers from Labour.

whosurpaddy

ahh gotcha. thanks

Victor

Originally posted by The Rooster
And givinig the candidate you dislike the most your number 9 vote has a certain satisfaction!

And you still get to say "I voted for you" the next time he shows up on your doorstep.