Answering though Irish

subway_ie

Is anybody doing the leaving cert through Irish for the bonus marks? There's some info about it here (probably too late to change now).

Suaimhneach

I am!

Anyone else?

Although I'm not doing for the extra marks, although they are a nice bonus. I'm hoping to do better than 75% in everything bar French...and that only gets 5% rate anyway! Better than nothing though, I'm not complaining!

subway_ie

The onyl reason I asked is because a few people in my school are doing a few of them through Irish, and they plan on getting both the Irish version AND the English version of the paper on the day, so they can read the questions off of the english paper and asnwer them in Irish, getting the bonus marks but using the english paper for the questions, which seems a little unfair. Are they allowed to get both papers, or is it at the discretion of the examiner?

Suaimhneach

Nope, we get both papers.

I think the main reason for it is because a lot of the english papers get translated directly into irish, so instead of having everyday sentances, you have massively confusing words/sturctures.

For buisness and science for example the terminolgy would be quite hard. And math. Math can be ridiculous.

subway_ie

Originally posted by jesjes
Nope, we get both papers.

I think the main reason for it is because a lot of the english papers get translated directly into irish, so instead of having everyday sentances, you have massively confusing words/sturctures.

For buisness and science for example the terminolgy would be quite hard. And math. Math can be ridiculous.

Yeah, but the thing is, anybody can do maths through Irish once they have both papers in front of them. The only english you'll ever have to use is "step 1" or "Proved by the principal of mathematical induction", and that's about it.

Suaimhneach

That's true.

If I was to get only the irish papers I'd have a hard time understanding some if it. So gettin the english papers is only fair, esp for reading questions such as Q11 on paper 2. There is a whole story attached to it.

What you write on the answer book should be in irish too.

And that stands for all exam papers, not just math.

subway_ie

Originally posted by jesjes
If I was to get only the irish papers I'd have a hard time understanding some if it. So gettin the english papers is only fair, esp for reading questions such as Q11 on paper 2. There is a whole story attached to it.

But the thing is, to get the bonus marks, you're supposed to be doing the paper through Irish. Not having it translated for you, and then writing your answer in Irish. IMO, if you put down on your application that you're doing Irish, and you ask for an Irish paper on the day, you shouldn't get the english paper too.

Suaimhneach

That's fair enough. I'd be inclinded to agree with you. Especially if people are taking advantage of the extra points.

Although I do think people who do do history and buisness in irish [and other such subjects] are deserving of the points as the bi-lingual papers are no help to them.

senordingdong

Is it too late to change?

subway_ie

Originally posted by senordingdong
Is it too late to change?

Not too sure - you're supposed to have it down on your application form, but they may let you change it. You could probably ring up the department (or maybe the SEC?) and check it out, although, it probably is a bit late if you've never even seen an irish exam paper before... it probably helps to have practiced one in advance or something, just to get used to it.

senordingdong

Originally posted by subway_ie
Not too sure - you're supposed to have it down on your application form, but they may let you change it. You could probably ring up the department (or maybe the SEC?) and check it out, although, it probably is a bit late if you've never even seen an irish exam paper before... it probably helps to have practiced one in advance or something, just to get used to it.

Yeah i get you but it sill feel its worth a shot becasue i could really do with those extra marks.
Im not fluent but i know im alot better than most at irish so while my grammer etc... wouldnt be the best, id assume theyre desperate to give out marks to people doing this, as they are with higher level irish.

I would have agreed with you on the needing practice thing but if i was to get the english paper aswell, as you can imagine, it would make the whole thing alot easier.

Do you reckon i could find out in my school?

subway_ie

Originally posted by senordingdong
Yeah i get you but it sill feel its worth a shot becasue i could really do with those extra marks.
Im not fluent but i know im alot better than most at irish so while my grammer etc... wouldnt be the best, id assume theyre desperate to give out marks to people doing this, as they are with higher level irish.

I'm not so sure that they'd be desperate to give out the marks, maybe they are, but I'd have thought that they'd be just as strict/stricter than people answering through english. It all depends on who corrects the paper I guess.

I would have agreed with you on the needing practice thing but if i was to get the english paper aswell, as you can imagine, it would make the whole thing alot easier.

Do you reckon i could find out in my school? [/B]

I was talking more about practicing actually writing out the answers as well as looking at the papers (although you can probably get papers from the SEC).
Finding out from your school - all depends really - are they still open? Are the people organising the exams in any way competent (I know some in my school aren't...)

senordingdong

Originally posted by subway_ie
I'm not so sure that they'd be desperate to give out the marks, maybe they are, but I'd have thought that they'd be just as strict/stricter than people answering through english. It all depends on who corrects the paper I guess.

Good point, i figured theyd do it liek they do higher level, that because there such a decline in people doing it that theyd be more generous to try and encourage it.

Originally posted by subway_ie
I was talking more about practicing actually writing out the answers as well as looking at the papers (although you can probably get papers from the SEC).
Finding out from your school - all depends really - are they still open? Are the people organising the exams in any way competent (I know some in my school aren't...)

Well i was thinking along the lines of...if i have to answer a question on Hitlers foregin policy, there would be alot of big words and complex sentences used in such an asnwer, but if i was to substitute them with even basic irish, they might still be generous.
Yeah my school is still open and the people running the exams are competant.

subway_ie

Originally posted by senordingdong
Well i was thinking along the lines of...if i have to answer a question on Hitlers foregin policy, there would be alot of big words and complex sentences used in such an asnwer, but if i was to substitute them with even basic irish, they might still be generous.
Yeah my school is still open and the people running the exams are competant.

Hmmm. Maybe doing history through Irish wouldn't be the best idea? Like you said, very complex subjects, long and tedious essays, in a language you're not familiar with (not when writing history essays anyway). I was thinking more along the lines of doing French/Maths/Accounting, the "easier" subjects, ie the ones that don't have huge essays and complex terms.

claire h

I think the generosity part comes in when you get your bonus 10%; unless your Irish is at a very high standard you're probably better off sticking to doing exams in English.

simu

Well i was thinking along the lines of...if i have to answer a question on Hitlers foregin policy, there would be alot of big words and complex sentences used in such an asnwer, but if i was to substitute them with even basic irish, they might still be generous. Yeah my school is still open and the people running the exams are competant.

I'd advise you not to do this unless you know all the technical terms of history in Irish (names of acts, wars , countries, policies, political movements etc) otherwise it'll be obvious you're just chancing your arm and because, as you said, you write worse in Irish than in English, your essays will be of lower quality in Irish.

It's different in subjects like French and maths - there's not much writing with maths and the language needed for answering in French is a lot simpler than for history.

senordingdong

But would i definatly get the english version of the paper too?
If i was to do say ; maths which requires no grammer whatsoever, would i still get the extra ten percent evn though i didnt write any irish?

DS

You only get 5% in Maths, and only if you get less than 75%, it decreases after that.

http://www.examinations.ie/main.php?l=en&mc=ca&sc=im

senordingdong

Originally posted by Discharger Snake
You only get 5% in Maths, and only if you get less than 75%, it decreases after that.

http://www.examinations.ie/main.php?l=en&mc=ca&sc=im

I dont expect to get more than 75% in maths, i need every little i can get.
But can anyone clarify, for definate, that i would get the irish and english version of the papers? Or is this just some schools?

subway_ie

Originally posted by senordingdong
I dont expect to get more than 75% in maths, i need every little i can get.
But can anyone clarify, for definate, that i would get the irish and english version of the papers? Or is this just some schools?

As far as I know, it's at the discretion of the supervisor/examiner (what do they actually call the person who sits there, watching you? is it the examiner or the supervisor or something else?). But, anybody I know who's done exams through Irish (all 2 of them...) have gotten both the Irish and English versions, although they had to ask for the english version.

Mutant_Fruit

By rights, you can get the irish version even if you are answering in english, they are supposed to supply both if you ask for them...

And there is no problem asking for the english version if you are answering through irish.

My only question would be; Are you fluent in irish, and i mean fluent? If the answer is yes, do the exam through irish. Otherwise, don't.

vector

Are students in "fee paying" "grind schools" being encouraged to take French and Maths in Irish for the single purpose of gaining extra points? I must call Joe Duffy immediately!

Suaimhneach

"For the purpose of the award of bonus marks, Mathematics, Paper I and Paper II, will be treated as separate subjects."

According to my grinds teacher, you don't get extra marks for maths through Irish, so. It's pointless doin it...

DS

Your grinds teacher's wrong. That sentence you quoted from examinations.ie means that you get bonues marks for your paper 1 result and different bonus marks for your paper 2 result.

Bonus marks at the rate of 5 per cent will be given to a candidate who obtains less than 75 per cent of the total marks in the case of the following subjects:- French, German, Italian, Spanish, Mathematics,...

Suaimhneach

Please excuse my last post then. I'll tell him that tomorrow! Thanks for reading it properly!!

senordingdong

Nil fhios agam anois, taim idir dha comhairle, fos ni cinnte.

vector

Originally posted by senordingdong
Nil fhios agam anois, taim idir dha comhairle, fos ni cinnte.

As bearla, le do thoil

dudara

I sat all my examinations in Irish as I'm from the Gaeltacht. You do receive both papers on the day when sitting the exams through Irish. The main reason for this is that the Irish used on the papers is in general appallingly obtuse and bureacratic and having the English paper to hand makes life far easier.

We never thought of doing the exams in anything else other than irish, so I'm not too sure as to the procedure for registering for Irish examinations. The bonus points was a non-runner for us. I sat History, so you have to be able to write full-length essays in Irish, and know all Act names etc as Gaeilge. If you can't do that, don't attempt to take the paper. In Mathematics, you will have to be able to write out induction proofs, and all the standard phrases in Irish and so on.

I think that if you're a good candidate, sitting the exams in Irish won't garner you much, if nothing, in the way of bonus marks. (I received 4 A1s and 3 A2s, giving me 580 points, none of which came from bonus marks). If you're hoping to pull your grade up a little through Irish, just be aware that by not being comfortable in the language, you could be doing more harm than good.

Delphi91

Originally posted by Mutant_Fruit
By rights, you can get the irish version even if you are answering in english, they are supposed to supply both if you ask for them...

You sure about this?

I'm a superintendent for the Leaving Cert and I was issued with no papers written in Irish (apart from Irish itself, that is). The only papers issued to a centre are the papers for the subjects the students in that centre are registered for in whatever language they have chosen to answer in - i.e. papers in English by default or in Irish otherwise.

I don't have my Rules and Regulations booklet with me, but I'll check it out and give you the "official line" if you like.

Mike

subway_ie

Delphi91 - any interesting corrections for the papers? Eg maths 2, applied, physics, business? It wouldn't be cheating if you were to tell us you know...

dudara

Delphi, the reason for that is that you probably have no students registered to sit exams in Irish.

But students so registered receive both copies of the paper.

if there are no irish papers issued to a centre, that means you probably can't decide to sit a paper in irish on the day.

senordingdong

Originally posted by dudara
I sat all my examinations in Irish as I'm from the Gaeltacht. You do receive both papers on the day when sitting the exams through Irish. The main reason for this is that the Irish used on the papers is in general appallingly obtuse and bureacratic and having the English paper to hand makes life far easier.

We never thought of doing the exams in anything else other than irish, so I'm not too sure as to the procedure for registering for Irish examinations. The bonus points was a non-runner for us. I sat History, so you have to be able to write full-length essays in Irish, and know all Act names etc as Gaeilge. If you can't do that, don't attempt to take the paper. In Mathematics, you will have to be able to write out induction proofs, and all the standard phrases in Irish and so on.

I think that if you're a good candidate, sitting the exams in Irish won't garner you much, if nothing, in the way of bonus marks. (I received 4 A1s and 3 A2s, giving me 580 points, none of which came from bonus marks). If you're hoping to pull your grade up a little through Irish, just be aware that by not being comfortable in the language, you could be doing more harm than good.

Thank you, that pretty much sums up everything i was asking.

joe.

it's in the constitution. it's our constitutional right to get any government documentation in irish and/or english. i scraped a d3 in higher level maths. i also did it through irish. only for bonus it could well have been an e

Delphi91

Originally posted by dudara
Delphi, the reason for that is that you probably have no students registered to sit exams in Irish.

But students so registered receive both copies of the paper....

According to the book of Instructions, that is not necessarily the case. They are ENTITLED to a copy in English if they are answering through Irish, but they must ask for it. It's not give automatically.

I made the original statement because the post said that you could get the Irish version if you were answering through English and vice-versa. I can understand being able to get the English version if you're answering through Irish, but I don't have any copies of papers in Irish for students who are answering them in English. And I'm not aware of any other places where they are provided as a matter of course.

Delphi91

Originally posted by subway_ie
Delphi91 - any interesting corrections for the papers? Eg maths 2, applied, physics, business? It wouldn't be cheating if you were to tell us you know...

subway_ie, even if I did tell you (which I won't!... ) the corrections would be of absolutely no use to you as you can't see the question they refer to until the time of the exam!

Mike

Mutant_Fruit

Oh right, i must be wrong then. I was under the impression you could get both copies whether you were answering in english or through irish, but to be perfectly honest, someone answering through english has no need whatsoever for the irish paper, and i'm sure no-one has ever asked.

senordingdong

Originally posted by Delphi91
subway_ie, even if I did tell you (which I won't!... ) the corrections would be of absolutely no use to you as you can't see the question they refer to until the time of the exam!

Mike

Please.....

subway_ie

Originally posted by Delphi91
subway_ie, even if I did tell you (which I won't!... ) the corrections would be of absolutely no use to you as you can't see the question they refer to until the time of the exam!

Mike

Aha, but you're wrong there. The correction can give subtle hints - like take, for example, applied maths. A correction can give away the type of question being asked - like in the hydrostatics question, or the rigid body rotation question, the type of language used is usually unique to that question. Happened before with a u-tube type question.

Delphi91

Originally posted by subway_ie
Aha, but you're wrong there. The correction can give subtle hints - like take, for example, applied maths. A correction can give away the type of question being asked - like in the hydrostatics question, or the rigid body rotation question, the type of language used is usually unique to that question. Happened before with a u-tube type question.

That's true in some cases, but not in all. A correction could be something as simple as a comma left out or a mis-numbered question.

subway_ie

Originally posted by Delphi91
That's true in some cases, but not in all. A correction could be something as simple as a comma left out or a mis-numbered question.

Yeah, I know, but it could be as helpful as "there should be a comma after 'wedge' on pg. 3, question 4.". It's unlikely, but it's happened before (something similar).