Dublin v Westmeath

The Rooster

Right Dubs (or anyone else), what team should play on Sunday and how are we going to do?

Imposter

I don't care who Dublin play but I think it'll be a very close game. I'd say 2 points to either side at most. I reckon Dublin might just scrape it. Rory O'Connell is a huge loss for us and Dublin are only missing Cluxton afaik and while goalkeeper is a very important position, replacements are generally almost as good if not as good as those being replaced (even though i've never heard of those 2 guys that may play before).

Mighty_Mouse

I agree. A keeper is not a loss unless the new one makes a mistake!!! O' Connel is a huge loss for Westmeath. Did he deserve it or not? Does anyone know what happened yet?

I think Westmeath still have a real chance. The shankles of facing Meath are gone. Their facing a Dub teams which is similar in style to themselves. I think O' Shaugnessy can put in a huge performance but Westmeath need someone to run with Ciarin Whelan (G Dolan?).

Westmeath are now sitting looking at a Laois team that they battled and beat over the years underage. Laois are Leinster champions and favorites to retain their status whilst Westmeath are nearly men who "blow it" at every opportunity. So plenty of motivation exists. On the other-hand the Dubs must no that they are not as good as 2002 probably are aiming for a Leinster title at most.

I think the problems with Westmeath in the league were due to Paidi not settling into the job properly (opening pubs around the country instead of training!!!). But T Lyons has no such excuse.

Plus there is huge pressure on Dublin to win this game (too much?) but they don't have a free-scoring forward since 2002. (Cosgrove lost form, Connell hardly freescoring, Sherlock 0-2 at most)). Also theyre up against a tight, experienced "hounding"-like speedy Westmeath backline.

On the other hand Westmeath have several forwards who can do damage against any back-line. Dessis Dolan could walk onto any team in the country, but Fallon contributes 3-4 points most games. Jp Casey (playing ?) and Gary Dolan are always good for a goal. Also Shaughnessy is capable of picking up a few scores from midfield

Personally I think Westmeath are well-capable of beating the Dubs. Personally I hope they do!

Imposter

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
I think Westmeath still have a real chance. The shankles of facing Meath are gone. Their facing a Dub teams which is similar in style to themselves. I think O' Shaugnessy can put in a huge performance but Westmeath need someone to run with Ciarin Whelan (G Dolan?).

I think they've a chance at beating Dublin but imo the team is overrated. The Paidi factor might help a bit but for me it's a bit like Kildare when they were doing well, too many guys there for fitness and strength and not enough footballers. Agree with someone needing to spoil Whelan's game but Dolan is not the person for that.

Westmeath are now sitting looking at a Laois team that they battled and beat over the years underage. Laois are Leinster champions and favorites to retain their status whilst Westmeath are nearly men who "blow it" at every opportunity. So plenty of motivation exists. On the other-hand the Dubs must no that they are not as good as 2002 probably are aiming for a Leinster title at most.

Westmeath went on to beat a fantastic Laois side in a replay in 95 but you forget that Laois won Leinster (and I think at least one all-Ireland) the next 2 (or was it 3) years as well.

Plus there is huge pressure on Dublin to win this game (too much?) but they don't have a free-scoring forward since 2002. (Cosgrove lost form, Connell hardly freescoring, Sherlock 0-2 at most)). Also theyre up against a tight, experienced "hounding"-like speedy Westmeath backline.

There's always huge pressure on Dublin but it's their (fans) own fault. They always think they're going to win minimum of Leinster. Not many outside of Dublin would even go that far.

On the other hand Westmeath have several forwards who can do damage against any back-line.

If they are let play which I don't believe any capable defense will let them do. I reckon Westmeath will be relying on frees from Fallon.

Personally I think Westmeath are well-capable of beating the Dubs. Personally I hope they do!

Most people hope they do. Roll on Sunday.

The Rooster

Rory O'Connell is no huge loss to Westmeath, as they have a very able replacement in Gary Dolan. Rory is a fine footballer no doubt, but his hot-headiness and stupidity have cost Westmeath on a number of occassions.

Murphy wouldnt be as good as Cluxton, but he's still a fine keeper. Shouldnt prove a disadvantage to the Dubs.

Senan Connell and Jason Sherlock are both injury worries for Dublin. Neither have participated in training this week, but hopefully that was just precautionary and they'll take full part tonight. There has been nothing about the injuries in the media at all - but I can't work out whether thats a good sign or a bad sign. Connell would be a massive loss as he's one of the best half forwards in the country. The most reliable point taker from play Dublin have. Jason would also be a big loss, he's been in fine goalscoring form recently and any replacement wouldnt be a patch on him.

If everyone is fit, then I'd strongly fancy Dublin. If they play well, they'll win because they are a better team than Westmeath. Of course, frustratingly, they're well capable of playing sh!te too, in which case they'll lose. And if they're without Connell and Sherlock, it'll bring them down to Westmeath's level in any case.

stevemac

laois won 3 leinster in a row and 2 all-irelands

lost the 3rd all-ireland


ye said westmeath are over the meath stigma?
did they not lose to meath last year?
or do ye mean offaly.

On the match itself, i think it will be close but i'm not sure who will win. I think i picked dublin in the pools so i'll take them again. Neither teams are bad and whichever wins will have a good chance of making the final and also winning it. The only things i'd like to ask the dubs is how much of a loss is farell? should he be in the team or is the media playing it up?
And about westmeath, the last day all the reports said that all ye're forwards, except dolan drifter in a and out of the game and only dolan poised a constant threat. Are they relying on dolan too much or was it just a bad performance?

Imposter

Originally posted by The Rooster
And if they're without Connell and Sherlock, it'll bring them down to Westmeath's level in any case.

So they're a far superior side then? Just want to clarify before Sunday!:rolleyes:

Mighty_Mouse

ye said westmeath are over the meath stigma?
did they not lose to meath last year?
or do ye mean offaly.QUOTE] Re-read what I said?

how much of a loss is farell

Not much IMO

Rory O'Connell is no huge loss to Westmeath, as they have a very able replacement in Gary Dolan

i dont think Gary Dolan is a patch on O'Conell (but he's an able footballer all the same) so they will definitely fell the loss.

would be a massive loss as he's one of the best half forwards in the country.

You must be raving! Senon Connell is not one of the best half forwards in the country!

Jason would also be a big loss,

Impact sub No1

If they play well, they'll win because they are a better team

I disagree. On paper I dont think the Dubs have better players

it's a bit like Kildare when they were doing well, too many guys there for fitness and strength and not enough footballers

if i was westmeath i settle for the kildare glory days!!

The Rooster

Imposter, I believe Dublin are a better side than Westmeath. I dont think that merits a rolleyes! I dont think Westmeath cant beat us though. We are capable of being brutal on our day!

I, like you, think Westmeath are over-rated.

The last time Dublin played Westmeath in the championship was in 2000. Dublin coasted to a 6 points victory. Who have Westmeath beaten since then that would make me think they'll be any harder to beat this year?? Up to this year, they've only had one win of consequence - v Mayo, and that was arguably a poor Mayo team.

They have come very close to beating Meath in a number of championship encounters since then. But no matter how bad Meath played, Westmeath still couldnt beat them. Meath have been poor over the last few years (though the addition of Sheridan this year improves them significantly). Even Fermanagh beat them last year. And Dublin hammered Meath in 2002. 7 points was the margin, I think.

So as I say, I dont think there's any reason why anyone would rate Westmeath as highly as Dublin based on performances over the last few years - and not that you could rate Dublin overly high!

I saw Westmeath's win over Offaly. A poor enough game. Two mediocre performances. Westmeath did well to get the win of course. That will stand them in great stead, as they've finally shown a bit of bottle and mental toughness. And it has to be said that Laois and Meath both put in poor performances first time out this year too, so probably each team will improve second time out.

The Rooster

Dessie Farrell

Tommy Lyons doesnt like Dessie, and never has. I reckons he feels threatened by him. He's not worth his place on the starting XV anymore, but he would be a great sub to have for the last 10/15 minutes, if needed. Especially as Dublin have very little in terms of good forwards on the bench.

Senan Connell

Mighty Mouse, Senan is one of the best half forwards in the country. Maybe you havent seen enough of him? But we'll agree to disagree and one of us can gloat at the end of the campaign

Jason Sherlock

Anyone who thinks Jason should be on the subs bench for Dublin, either

(a) knows nothing about Dublin football
OR
(b) hasnt been able to see any Dublin club football over the last 12 months or been to any Dublin league games this year.

On Paper

I think you could probably say the teams are even enough in defence and midfield. Midfield is a big questionmark both teams are capable of being great, and of being poor. How it goes on the day will have a big impact. The forwards is where I believe Dublin have the advantage. In Connell, Keaney, Brogan and Sherlock the Dubs have 4 forwards who are in good form and raking up plenty of scores between them. I dont think Westmeath can equal that.

Of course I'm setting myself up for a big fall here, but better I mouth my honest opinons and create discussion than keeping schtum

Imposter

I agree Dublin are probably better than Westmeath but to suggest that without 2 players "it'll bring them down to Westmeath's level" suggests that you think that they're a lot better than westmeath. It's your turn of phrase that I object to there not your assumption that Dublin are better.

Who have westmath beaten since? Well they have reached the all-ireland quarters through the qualifiers system and beaten an admittedly poor Cork team and also Mayo on the way. Previously they would have bottled both of them. This year they have been poor but Paidi has been finding his feet and trying out players.

The offaly game was tough mentally but Offaly are no great shakes even though they were successful in the league. Admittedly Meath are definitely still the bogey team but Dublin are not. As I said before I reckon it'll be close on Sunday.

Waylander

Now that makes me laugh. A couple of weeks ago most people were saying Offaly were dark horses for Leinster. Don't get me wrong Imposter, I agree theya re a poor side but people have taken me to task for saying that before the Westmeath game. To be honest I think Dublin are a bit better then Westmeath, I do not think Sunday will be a walk in the park, and we are definitely capable of losing but I think that is what it would take. Dublin to lose the game, or Westmeath to play exceptionally well, and when they have done that in recent years they have only managed to draw with Meath not beat them. As for Paidi, I think he could be as much a liability as anything else. I know he is a manager with a couple of titles under his belt, but when I look at the team he had I keep thinking that Kerry team could have had at least four in a row. I am sure plenty will disagree with that but that is my opinion of Paidi as a manager. Shame though, he was a class player! So for me it is Dublin to win by more then the odd point on Sunday.

Imposter

Originally posted by Waylander
Now that makes me laugh. A couple of weeks ago most people were saying Offaly were dark horses for Leinster. Don't get me wrong Imposter, I agree theya re a poor side but people have taken me to task for saying that before the Westmeath game.

You didn't find me dissagreeing with you! I thought Wexford and Longford would be the dark horses. Obviously I got the Longford one a bit wrong!

Waylander

Also I meant to say I fancy Wexford to take Kildare in the game after. I might hang around and watch that one as I have not seen much of either team this year yet.

stevemac

I don't think wexford will be kildare. They seem to a slow and poor midfield which if kildare come out on top there should allow kildare to get through. mattie Ford is a good player and should have a good day in croker, but kildare have the better team. maybe not by much but they do.

Anyone actually know what odds are on offer for the games at the week-end. Might be worth a few bets.

The Rooster

Paddy Power has the odds as:
Dublin 2/5 Westmeath 5/2 Draw 15/2
Kildare 1/3 Wexford 3/1 Draw 15/2

I think I fancy Kildare, but I cant really back that up. Wexford had a good year in Div 1, but were disappointing against a very poor Louth side in the first round. Still won comfortably in the end though, so I suppose thats a good sign. Kildare on the other hand are a completely unknown quantity, in my eyes. They easily topped their Division (albeit a very weak division) but then in the semis, they got surprisingly hammered by Offaly. And I think that pretty much every Div 2 team so far has played badly in the championship.

It does point to an upset, and 3/1 seems quite generous, but Kildare will know that if they stop Forde, they wont be beaten. And I think they should have the defenders to do just that.

Imposter

Paddy power has given some good odds on outsiders so far. His odds on the favourites are a disgrace though.

Anyone going for 2 draws? or 2 outsiders?

Waylander

I believe Waterford are 6-4 with Tipp as odds on. Could be worth a few quid to back Waterford and Wexford!

stevemac

waterford and westmeath would be a better bet

westmeath have a better chance of winning than wexford

but waterford, dublin and kildare would't be a bad bet either
say €1 on that would get you €2.80 by my calculations (please correct me, prob wrong) . And if you can add Tyrone who should beat Fermanagh and if either Antrim or Down ?

Might be worth a go. Not really any surprises so far in the championship.

The Rooster

€1 on a treble of Waterford (6/4), Dublin (2/5) and Kildare (1/3) would return €4.67

calculated as follows:

1 x (6+4) / 4 x (2+5) / 5 x (1+3) / 3 = 4.67

Add in Tyrone (1/16!) and it increases to €4.96

Add in Antrim as well (1/3) and we're up to €6.61

The Rooster

Apparently the Indo reckon they've inside information and that the Dublin team is:

B Murphy;
B Cahill, P Christie, P Griffin;
S Ryan, D Magee, P Andrews;
C Whelan, D Homan;
C Moran, B Cullen, S Connell;
A Brogan, C Keaney, J Sherlock

Means David Henry is dropped. Bit of a surprise, but despite playing most of the time there's always been a thought that Lyons didnt like him and that Henry was just minding the number 2 jersey until Barry Cahill (who Lyons raves about) was back fit. Henry was notably dropped for the Laois game last year - which didnt work out too well! IMO Cahill is the better footballer, but Henry the better defender. I'd go with Henry.

Darren Magee centre back. Not happy with that. I dont like Darren. He's been given plenty of chances, but IMO hasnt developed into the player we thought. He's heading down the path previously thread by Pat Gilroy.

Glad to see Homan at midfield.

Surprised to see Moran at half forward. We do have a plethora of good half backs, and not too many good half forwards, so you can see the logic. But I still wouldnt have done that. Collie played the whole NFL at half back. Strange time to change formation.

Tomas Quinn dropped. Means no freetaker, though Keaney has been taken the right sided ones recently in any case. I would have kept Quinn. His freetaking has improved throughout the league (not near a Jimmy, Barney or Charlie, but decent enough) and his general play has improved considerably over the year. I think he's paid the price for Dublin having two many small forwards.

Everything else is in order, so me and Lyons agree in 12 out of the 15 positions, so I'm reasonably happy, and reasonably confident.

kaisersose77

c'mon westmeath! god dublin are terrible for a county of that size. Bye Bye Tommy Lyons

cournioni

Could be an easier route for Dublin, when you look at what Armagh done last year...

mobby

Jez after the Dubs display today i am sure even London fancy there chances next week.

Imposter

Well what can I say! (wait a sec, I know i'll think of something)

Well the dubs must be sick. Imagine sinking to Westmeath's level and actually going even lower!

But seriously I couldn't believe it when I got the news (I didn't see it). So were westmeath good, dublin bad, combination of both or are Dublin just really no good?

I also had money on Westmeath and Wexford. Shame I didn't do a double! So wahoo...

Should make for an interesting semi.

Waylander

Dublin were Ok in the first half but only led by three points. Really should have had a bigger lead, or I thought so anyway. In the second half they did what I said they could not do again. They played as badly as they did against Laois last year. I never like supporting a team that has lost but the manner in which Dublin played that secoind half left me disgusted. Fair dues to Westmeath, particularly Dessie Dolan who was impressive they deserved to win the game. Dublin cant shoot. A fourteen yard free in front of the posts was put wide and that is just one example of woeful shooting by the dubs. The only players I thought did any way decently were Paddy Christie, Shane Ryan and Griffin in at corner back. Sherlock started fairly well but fell out ogf the game as it went on. Tommy has got to go.

Mighty_Mouse

I think they've a chance at beating Dublin but imo the team is overrated. The Paidi factor might help a bit but for me it's a bit like Kildare when they were doing well, too many guys there for fitness and strength and not enough footballers.

lol!!! lol

Well the dubs must be sick. Imagine sinking to Westmeath's level and actually going even lower!

Jasus! Thats more than a little disengenious!! Even Kerry know how to lose

Imposter

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
lol!!! lol Jasus! Thats more than a little disengenious!! Even Kerry know how to lose

(Parden my ignorance but) What?

The Rooster

The Dubs started great, with Sherlock and Brogan on fire, and scoring for fun. They were 5 or 6 points up, but then started to get careless giving away possesion and allowing Westmeath back in. The gap was 3 at the break.

Dublin were just diabolical after the break. I wouldnt put too much blame on the forwards, they just got no ball. But the midfield and defence were winning very little, and when they did they gave it away. At the end of the day the only Dubs to come away with any credit were Christie, Brogan and Sherlock. Westmeath hit a few bad wides, but then found their scoring touch and ran out deserving winners - though I thought the keeper was very lucky to save Sherlock's goalbound effort late on!

Lots of questions for the Dubs:
- Why was Henry dropped after playing well throughout the league?
- Why was Henry not brought on when his replacement was getting roasted?
- Why was Senan Connell played in the corner, severly limiting his effectiveness?
- Why was Collie Moran played in the forwards when he's been playing at wing back for the last 2 years?
- Will Bryan Cullen ever be given a run in his correct position, i.e. centre back?
- Why was our freetaker, Mossy Quinn, dropped when he did well all through the league campaign?

jill_valentine

Y'know, for a second, I was thinking about how much I wish I was still at school (in Meath) today. In yer face, you bragging b*stards!

Sorry. I'll get me coat.

laoisfan

dublin actually have a good team - as you all know the problem is with lyons and his selectors! dublin should have been leading by more than 3pts at half-time. the players should and will have to take some of the responsibility but if the manager cannot see how bad it is and make changes as the match progresses!!!!!

leinster is def. interesting now.

meath v laois
westmeath v wexford

any takes on who will win (might) leinster?

--laoisfan