Daytime Running Lights

PBC_1966

Maybe this won't be quite so controversial as my stance on seat-belts.......

Are any of you in Ireland getting fed up with the increased use of daytime-running lights on new cars? In fact, are such cars really becoming that common on Irish roads, or are the models most likely to have them not sold in great quantities there?

We've become accustomed to seeing Volvo's driving around with lights on, but the last few months I seem to have noticed a huge increase in the number of other vehicles driving around in broad daylight with headlights blazing.

At least I'm assuming these are automatic running lights. Either that or there's a sudden increase in the number of drivers forgetting to turn off their lights after sunrise.

Guy:Incognito

It's been decided that it's safer to have your lights on during the day aswell. Tbh it pisses me off, Its said that it improve visabliity of other cars. My opinion is that if you cant see other cars on the road in broad daylight, then you shouldnt be driving, much like if your stupid enough(im talking bout adults here) to run out in front of a car its pretty much your own fault

Kavs

I Always leave my headlights turned on, I find you get a quicker reaction out of other drivers ,say when u meet another car on a bend on a narrow country road.
Also if I'm overtaking its very easy to judge the distance of an oncoming car if its headlights are on and vice versa. I think all cars should have there lights on as standard ,Viva Volvo!

Tommy Vercetti

I'd like to see it on all cars too, provided that they are correctly aligned and not having one of them pointing right in your face like so many cars seem to these days despite NCT stuff. I also want front fog lights banned and also all women should be forced to undertake a course where they learn to identify and operate the on/off switch for rear fogs. If all that happened I'd be one happy camper oh yeah

Victor

At the moment I'm more worried about people with one headlight

BabyEater

I think it is a good idea too keep the lights on because if you are going down a road that and it goes from a bright road to a road which has plenty of trees around it it can be hard to see other cars as they dont have there lights on. I know a couple of road like this where it is like driving at night time because the road is under the trees. Also on dull days it is easier to see oncomming traffic if you are going to overtake.

unkel

That it is safer is controversial. What applies to wintery conditions in Sweden might not apply elsewhere

Anyway it doesn't bother me one way or the other, could people first ensure that all their lights (including brake lights) are working and indeed, turn off that fecking rear fog light

You can't really expect people to do a full test of all lights every day though...

Whenever any light in my car fails, I get a warning beep plus a message in the control panel stating which light it is. My last car had this also, it was a '94 car but the model came out in '88. I find that very useful. Should we make that system compulsory? In this computerised day and age that shouldn't make a car much more expensive, should it?

Stephen

I don't mind daytime running lights, its the fúcking fog lights that piss me off, there's no reason to have the ****ing things on in good weather conditions.

Nissan micra drivers, this is directed at YOU, ****holes.

unkel

Originally posted by Tommy Vercetti
all women should be forced to undertake a course where they learn to identify and operate the on/off switch for rear fogs

LOL from my own not statistically or politically correct experience it is mainly women who do this

Originally posted by Stephen
Nissan micra drivers, this is directed at YOU, ****holes.

Now, now, no need for that...

ando

Ofcourse its safer to have headlights on during daytime. I can’t believe some of you are annoyed at this. Sure the government had two attempts at launching a lights on daytime campaign about a year ago. The more visible the car is the better, especially on sunny days were the sun is reflecting off every window of every car, infact having foglights on during peak sunlight hours is a good idea IMO, but once it starts to get towards dusk the fogs should be switched off and replaced by sidelights or headlights, afterall the fogs are their so the car can be seen in difficult circumstance and when the sun is in your eyes I'd consider that difficult

mike65

I have no probs with DRL except when they are badly adjusted main-beams and fogs! Interestingly (or not)
my car can't show rear fogs unless the headlights are on.

Mike.

PBC_1966

Originally posted by Stekelly
It's been decided that it's safer to have your lights on during the day aswell. Tbh it pisses me off, Its said that it improve visabliity of other cars. My opinion is that if you cant see other cars on the road in broad daylight, then you shouldnt be driving,

My sentiments exactly. I don't see that driving around with lights on achieves anything useful on a perfectly clear, bright day. In fact I support the idea that having glaring running lights helps to obscure more vulnerable road users, such as bicycles and pedestrians.

The case against is set-out quite well by the following sites:


From the U.S.A.: http://www.lightsout.org/

From the U.K.: http://www.safespeed.org.uk/~dadrl/

kikel

Yes, i always drive with headlights on, it make sence for the reasons outlined by previous posts, what doesn't make sence is to do it for 1 week a year, when the governmentr have a safety campaign

the evil belly

alway drive with side lights or dims on. it's amazing the amount of idiots that flash their lights at me to tell me my lights are on, i know their on i turned them on and the little light on my dashboard tells me that too.. one of the main advantages i can see to having them on is that in sunny weather like we're having now and your wearing sunglasses you can judge the distance off other cars better when they have lights on. (i always double check by peering out over the top of the galsses too)

mike65

Anyone who drives into a seting sun knows how much easier it is to spot and "locate" an on-comming car which has its lights on even though for them driving out of the sun visibility is pretty much perfect.

Mike.

rymus

and of course bikers are always suppposed to have their lights on anyway.... Personally I don't have a choice in that because my bike has no headlight switch. I used to always leave em on with previous bikes though. Better to be safe & seen in any conditions than being scraped off the road by some paramedics.

I also echo Victors statement about the particular group of car driving morons out there that think one working headlight is all they need.

Wrestlemania

I keep my lights on all the time in this country you never know when a darker day will decend it may be annoying to people but they can see you even better.

leonotron

I always drive with headlights on, it's just easier to see other cars with their lights on. I have never been dazed by a cars headlights during the day, they glare less than they do at night for god's sake.

Kaskade

Im curious are the people complaining about DRL's not more worried about the more serious problems on our roads?

A few quick examples would be
the large amount of drink driving,
the poor quality of a lot of the roads,
The lack of understanding of the "overtaking" lane on motor ways,
The number of fatalities increasing again after the initial penalty points drop

I could go on all day

If your driving a grey car on a cloudy day its quite hard to see and unfortunately we do have a lot cloudy days in Ireland. I find that while driving you notice a car with DRL's on coming up behind you in your mirror a lot quicker than a car that doesnt.

Obviously if your considering overtaking you will always spot a car coming with DRLs than a car without making it safer , A large amount of fatalities occour from overtaking accidents. Although every driver should have the required eyesight unfortunately some dont so by running with DRL's your making the road safer for everyone

Its a fact that bright yellow cars are involved in less accidents than any other colour becuase the are more visible, The easy way to make your car more visible is to turn on DRL's!

K2

Having your lights on during daylight is not such a bad thing, infact, as previously stated, it is quite effective when driving into the suns glare. Its the fog lamps on all the time that wind me up. I do a lot of country driving and during the winter months the eyes are usually tired come 5.30 so having to put up with the idiots with their fogs on can be a pain. Again that comes back to driver education, until we have formalised training people will do stupid things like not wearing seat belts:D , fogs on all the time and the cyclops syndrome (ffs how difficult is it to change a bulb!)

MadsL

the fogs are their so the car can be seen in difficult circumstance

Like fog.

having foglights on during peak sunlight hours is a good idea IMO

Twaddle.

PBC_1966

Originally posted by Kaskade
Obviously if your considering overtaking you will always spot a car coming with DRLs than a car without making it safer , A large amount of fatalities occour from overtaking accidents.

But what about the pedestrian or cyclist you don't notice because you're distracted by the unnecessary DRLs of the car behind him?

Practical

Why does it annoy people so much, how does it affect you? It would appear that some of you are just looking for something to moan about.

Gurgle

I always drive with my lights on unless its actually sunny.
I don't care if it annoys people, at least they have to see me to get annoyed.

Originally posted by PBC_1966:
But what about the pedestrian or cyclist you don't notice because you're distracted by the unnecessary DRLs of the car behind him?

That would be a serious problem if rabbits drove.

seamus

Originally posted by PBC_1966
But what about the pedestrian or cyclist you don't notice because you're distracted by the unnecessary DRLs of the car behind him?

You should notice them anyway, regardless of what the other traffic is doing.
I don't see DRLs as strictly necessary for cars during the day. You should have no problem seeing other vehicles. But the only thing is that Irish people are notoriously poor at turning on their sidelights when the skies begin to darken, and I couldn't count the amount of people I've seen drive around in dusky, almost completely dark conditions with no lights at all. So at least if their lights are running all the time, they can't forget to turn them on. I wouldn't make them mandatory though.
Irish people don't seem to realise that dipped lights in built up areas are there mostly so other people can see you, not so you can see the road. In built up areas, you don't need any lights to see the road.

I always have my dips running on the bike. If some idiot can't see me, then he risks my life. So DRLs make me more visible.

Occidental

Side lights during the day are fine and are especially helpful on country roads.

Rear fog lights are because the driver is thick.

Front fog lights are because the driver is a twat.

mike65

I'd love to know why PBC_1966 has such a downer on anything connected with safety.

What next? anti-lock brakes?

Mike.

PBC_1966

Originally posted by mike65
I'd love to know why PBC_1966 has such a downer on anything connected with safety.

I'm not down on anything that promotes safety. I've just not been convinced that running around with headlights burning in broad daylight adds anything to road safety. If you check out the links I posted above, I'm clearly not alone in this belief.

Anti-lock brakes? I've driven cars with ABS, but I've never owned one with it. As I don't much like modern cars and would rather drive an old vintage vehicle, I'm not bothered about the absence of ABS.

K2

you're not Fred Flintstone by any chance?:D

rymus

yabba dabba dooooooooo (my €0.02)

minority

Originally posted by seamus
But the only thing is that Irish people are notoriously poor at turning on their sidelights when the skies begin to darken, and I couldn't count the amount of people I've seen drive around in dusky, almost completely dark conditions with no lights at all. So at least if their lights are running all the time, they can't forget to turn them on. I wouldn't make them mandatory though.
Irish people don't seem to realise that dipped lights in built up areas are there mostly so other people can see you, not so you can see the road. In built up areas, you don't need any lights to see the road.

I always have my dips running on the bike. If some idiot can't see me, then he risks my life. So DRLs make me more visible.

Ditto.
Its unbelievable the amount of prats who even only put there headlights on when it is completely dark.

Silvera

In most EU countries it is ILLEGAL to drive a vehice on SIDELIGHTS ONLY - i.e you must use dipped lights when the vehicle is moving.

DRL's are a good idea.
Look at the amount of people who drive during heavy rain, sleet, dawn, dusk, etc with no lights on - or just with (useless!) sidelights.

dahamsta

Originally posted by PBC_1966
I'm not down on anything that promotes safety. I've just not been convinced that running around with headlights burning in broad daylight adds anything to road safety. If you check out the links I posted above, I'm clearly not alone in this belief.

Indeed, you're a member of a rather popular nut club. The latter two of the "DADRL -UK four basic reasons" are ridiculous. "Safety should never be annoying. DRLs promote road rage." That's right, they promote road rage in nutjobs that have their knickers in a knot over something incredibly silly.

adam

leeroybrown

I don't think DRL's are all that necessary but they do have some definite advantages. Having them would alleviate the problem of people on the roads on dull mornings in very light fog or mist and at dusk in near invisibility without any lights, particularly in urban areas.

I've also had the interesting experience of meeting a black Jaguar XJS driving with no lights at 11pm on a pitch black night in December on a road with no form of lighting. The driver was overtaking a van while coming around a bend and the only reason I even noticed him with sufficient time to slow down was that through some miracle he had thought fit to use his indicators. Needless to say it was an interesting experience watching a small blinking orange dot slowly (yes slowly) come out from the side of a van. Obviously, it wouldn't have done anything for an old XJS but if there was always some source of light while the engine was running ...

I find idiots who drive around with front fog lamps blazing when there isn't a low cloud for miles very irritating, especially the ones who have fitted those piercing aftermarket lamps.

PBC_1966

Originally posted by leeroybrown
Obviously, it wouldn't have done anything for an old XJS but if there was always some source of light while the engine was running

Accepted that DRLs would alleviate this problem, but the fact that some people don't switch on their lights when it gets murky/dark isn't really a good enough reason to want everyone to drive with lights on all the time.

I find idiots who drive around with front fog lamps blazing when there isn't a low cloud for miles very irritating, especially the ones who have fitted those piercing aftermarket lamps.

Precisely. I'm not against the use of lights (as some of you may think! ), but I don't see the need for the unnecessary use of lights. The use of fog lights in perfectly clear weather is an excellent example.

By the way, the worst example of running lights are those cars which are now using the high-beam headlights, albeit on reduced power. And the metal-hallide lights, with their very intense, concentrated bluish beam are annoying whether it's day or night.

Fendervendor

It's those blue tint ones that get me, for some reason they get my attention from about two miles away!;)
As a biker though, i do ride with DRLs and do feel they get me seen better than without.

unkel

Originally posted by Fendervendor
It's those blue tint ones that get me, for some reason they get my attention from about two miles away!;)

Them xenons are supposed to

leeroybrown

Originally posted by: PBC_1966
Accepted that DRLs would alleviate this problem, but the fact that some people don't switch on their lights when it gets murky/dark isn't really a good enough reason to want everyone to drive with lights on all the time.

The last thing I'd like to see is everyone driving around during the day with full beams blaring but there is a suitable middle ground. If you see a Volvo with DRL's on a bright day the DRL's are unobtrusive and you barely notice anything but when you need that little bit extra visibility at dawn or dusk the lights really help.

Originally posted by unkel
Them xenons are supposed to

Unfortunately, for those of us with light sensitive eyes, the temporary reduction in vision isn't fun.

PBC_1966

Unfortunately, for those of us with light sensitive eyes, the temporary reduction in vision isn't fun.

I know of several people who complain of just that problem, and in fact have practically given up night driving unless it's absolutely essential. THey say the normal headlights are fine, but after an encounter with these blinding-blue lights it just takes too long to get their vision back properly.

By the way, while we're complaining about inappropriate use of fog lights, could I also mention hazard lights? No, they're not going to blind you or anything, but why is it these days that so many people seem to think they need to turn them on every time they stop somewhere, usually as an excuse for illegal parking?

K2

I think people use them to legitimise :rolleyes: illegal parking - or maybe they think it activates the forcefield which will protect their car, despite being parked in a dangerous manner!:cool:

I actually came across a situation this morning where a car parked on the hard shoulder (facing the wrong way) didn't have the hazards on, the truck in front of me had pulled in to allow traffic to pass (me, I assume) but knowing there were so many road works along that stretch of road, I didn't take up his invitation. Luckily, as he had to swing back out again pretty sharpish as he came upon the jeep.

If anybody is travelling into Castlebar along the Dublin road this weekend beware, though the pipelaying works will probably be stopped for the long weekend (in fact they are nearly finished) there is still a lot of stones, cones etc left along both hard shoulders)

PBC_1966

Originally posted by K2
maybe they think it activates the forcefield which will protect their car, despite being parked in a dangerous manner!:cool:

Yep, they're the ones!

The other use that really bugs me is when someone is just parked at the curb, maybe loading or unloading. Not stuck out in the road or causing an obstruction or anything like that -- Just parked parallel at the curb and in some cases not even on yellow lines. Quite often there are cars legitimately parked behind that vehicle, so as you drive along the street you can't actually see that the vehicle had hazard lights flashing. It just looks like a right turn signal, as though the driver is trying to pull out into the flow of traffic.

the truck in front of me had pulled in to allow traffic to pass (me, I assume)

What is the deal with this in Ireland? Admittedly it was handy when driving one of those nice new N-roads with the shoulders to have a slow-moving tractor pull over to let me pass, but for vehicles moving at normal speeds I'm not sure it's such a good idea.

K2

I used to think it was a polite and considerite thing to do... until 12 months ago. I moved over onto the hard shoulder to let a truck get by. One of his rear tyres blew out as he passed by and I had 3 feet of tyre bounce off my windscreen. Never again. One of my work collegues mentioned a few days ago that she never drove on the hard shoulder as she reckoned you were not fully insured, afaik the r.o.t.r. say you can move over onto it to allow traffic pass, anyhow reckon the ins thing is bull but do not wish to test it out.

btw before anybody starts flaming, I drive on the left of the lane and will slow down if they are running into difficulity in getting past ie halfway thro the manouver when another car appears on the opp side.

And while I'm having a bit of a rant, what about the idiots who drive on your tailgate flashing their lights expecting you to get out of their way! and then throw their car onto the hard shoulder when they have gotten past you (I assume to make the point that this is where they want you to drive!).

A large number of unmarked police cars would go some way to dealing with most of the dumb things we all see and do every day on the roads.

PBC_1966

So the Irish rules are somewhat different when it comes to the shoulder?

Here in England, it's reserved for emergency stopping only on motorways, and I think the polce would get rather annoyed with anyone driving in it just to let other vehicles pass:

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/23.shtml#227

Slow moving or speed restricted vehicles should always remain in the left-hand lane of the carriageway unless overtaking. You MUST NOT drive on the hard shoulder except in an emergency or if directed to do so by signs.
Laws MT(E&W)R reg 5 & MT(S)R reg 4

Are the Irish rules of the road available online?

Got to agree with the idiots who sit a foot off your back bumper flashing their lights because they don't think you're going fast enough. It seems to be more of a problem in certain areas of the country than others.

IANOC

what does it matter.if daytime running lights are distracting, blinding yu etc......
yu shouldnt be on the roads anyway IMHO:)

Victor

Originally posted by PBC_1966
Here in England, it's reserved for emergency stopping only on motorways, and I think the polce would get rather annoyed with anyone driving in it just to let other vehicles pass:

While Irish motorways do have hard shoulders (a little mean in places), most hard shoulders in the country are actually on main roads, whether single of dual carriageway. Pedestrians and cyclists may use the shoulder.

Originally posted by PBC_1966
Are the Irish rules of the road available online?

This is as good as it gets http://www.iol.ie/~pt/roadrule.html useless shower of wasters

PBC_1966

Thanks Victor. BTW, how much does a copy of the Irish Road Rules book set you back? Is it possible to order a copy by mail direct from the govt. publisher or maybe the driver licensing dept.?

ArphaRima

Where DRL's come in most useful is in extremely built up areas with many cars parked on either side of the road. DRL's identify "active" cars, ie those with a driver in them and likely to move, or already moving.

For anyone against DRL's there is only one negative. Fuel economy. If every car in the world had DRL's you could measure in thousands of tons how much extra pollutants would enter our atmosphere. TBH though if you use this argument you had better ban air conditioning well in advance.

Victor

Originally posted by PBC_1966
Thanks Victor. BTW, how much does a copy of the Irish Road Rules book set you back? Is it possible to order a copy by mail direct from the govt. publisher or maybe the driver licensing dept.?

I don't know, try:

Government Publications Sales Office
Sun Alliance House
Molesworth Street
Dublin 2

Tel: +353 (01) 647 6879



The Department of Transport,
Transport House,
44 Kildare St., Dublin 2, Ireland.

Tel: + 353 1 670 7444

Email: info@transport.ie

mudflapgirl

I have a long commute into work, well it's grand to me but other people seem to think it's huge - only 45miles though, anyway back to topic. I drive frm Carlow to Dublin everyday and everyday I see some of the worst driving in the country (at least I hope it's isolated to one area - though I doubt it)
DRL's are a great thing IMHO - you can see the psycho overtaking someone - who's already doing 60mph or above - from miles off.
I drive with my 'little' lights on and sometimes my fogs. It still amazes me the amount of people that overtake dangerously and pull out in front of me. I have lights on - I'm a black car - black tint - you can't ****ing miss me on a normal day - let alone a sunny/bright day - what's the dam problem?! People seem to have selective vison when it comes to driving. They see you when you're not in they're way - otherwise they just try to drive right through you.
The government had the right idea with the campaign for 'lights on during daytime' but maybe went about it in the wrong way.

*note I hate;
people who drive post 2000 Fiat Puntos with those stupid HiD lights - they blind the crap outta me ;
people driving with one headlight should have their cars confiscated - a bulb costs bout €3 (unless you're me and have to spend €9!) and they take bout 5 mins to fit. Your manual tells you how. It's not that hard.
The same goes for people missing one or more brake lights.

*rant over*

Silvera

mudflapgirl, I know that road well, and I agree that there are some lunatics on it regularly.

You mention using your 'little lights' (i.e. parking lights). As I mentioned above in my previous post, use of parking lights when driving in most EU countries is ILLEGAL
- Why ?

BECAUSE THEY ARE USELESS FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN PARKING !!!

(N.B. - It is also illegal to use fog lights in Ireland when they is no fog/snow !!)

Why is such a big deal for people to turn on their dipped headlights during daylight hours ??!! (I usually do so.....and always on the Carlow - Dublin road !)


It WON'T drain your battery........and could save your/somebody elses life !!!!!!!!!

mudflapgirl

silvera, I drive a 2002 Renault Clio and my 'little' lights are not parking lights they're actually dipped headlights. So AFAIK I'm not breaking any sort of law in the EU at all. Maybe I should have said that in my post, but also AFAIK most newer cars don't even come with parking lights now anyway.