Would it be possible or feasible...

Trebor

Was just wondering would it be possible or feasible to run a light rail system along the centre of the motorway, the grass area seperating the traffic?

one of the main problems afaik with rail is finding dedicated land for it, well this would give them dedicated land. Only problem is where do you let people off?

if they could do this on the M50 around dublin it would be great as most people have to get a bus to town and then another one out to where they want to go. very few buses that go around dublin instead of through it.

opinions?

Victor

It would be possible, but slightly more complicated (especially the foundations) than building say a third lane in that space. You would definitely need to put full crash barriers between the motorway and the track.

For platforms you could elevate the track on a viaduct and build the platforms over the traffic lanes, although these viaducts could end up being quite long (depending on the gradient of the motorway) and need to drop down again at over-bridges.

Of course the M50 goes through low-density areas not necessarily suited to an urban railway.

Tommy Vercetti

I think it would be a lot easier and probably more usefule to build cycle lanes alongside the M50 (with full crash barriers of course). Many alternative routes are narrow back roads which are too dangerous to cycle on -e.g. Finglas to Blanchardstown (N2 - N3) or Blanchardstown to Lucan (N3-N4) - considering the large number of factories and industrial estates located close to the M50 I would imagine that such a facility would prove popular.

antoinolachtnai

The problem like Victor says is that there aren't very many people living or working on the actual motorway, so you wouldn't really have enough population to drive demand.

There is another way you could do a 'circular' line though that I've sometimes though about. What could be done is to link Spencer Dock to Heuston via Stephen's Green with a tunnel (this is already proposed). Then upgrade the phoenix park tunnel, to provide the link back to the main line to Spencer Dock.

The capacity of a circular line like that, with services in both directions would be very great, and it would be a boon to the North City and Kilmainham areas particularly. I don't know whether it would be worth the investment, but on the face of it it would appear to offer better value than a Metro in the medium term.

Trebor is dead right about the lack of service between the suburbs. The only way to fix this would seem to be with buses. Is there not some way they could upgrade the hard shoulder on the M50 to let buses go around it a bit faster? (I see this was mentioned in the transport committee (http://www.gov.ie/committees-29/c-publicenterprise/20030520-J/Page1.htm) and dismissed because the lanes on the '50 were unsuitable, but surely if we can come up with EUR 700m to build the Luas, we can come up with a few million to widen a few bus lanes?

John R

I don't think there is a need for bus lanes on the M50 as the only areas of stationary traffic are around the junctions (and at that fukkin toll bridge) and proper junction upgrades are the solution to that. Besides a motorway with several Kms between junctions needs a hard shoulder for breakdowns and emergencies.

The real problem with providing a bus service along the M50 is that to be of any use the bus will have to leave the motorway to drop off in a useful location like a town centre or shopping centre. This is fine for certain short journeys where the alternative roads are unsuitable, but no good for long trips if the bus is exiting the motorway at every junction to go to the nearest town to drop-off and pick up as the end-to-end times would be very slow.

There is probably potential for a few express services on some sections such as Tallaght to DunLaoghaire via Loughlinstown, the 75 is very popular but the complete journey is very slow.

GerardKeating

Originally posted by Trebor
Was just wondering would it be possible or feasible to run a light rail system along the centre of the motorway, the grass area seperating the traffic?

It been done already. Once of the (very few) Metro lines in LA was done in such a fashion.


but as otheres have mentioned, i doubt if the route of the M50 would be suitable for a luas line.

antoinolachtnai

I don't think there is a need for bus lanes on the M50 as the only areas of stationary traffic are around the junctions (and at that fukkin toll bridge) and proper junction upgrades are the solution to that. Besides a motorway with several Kms between junctions needs a hard shoulder for breakdowns and emergencies.

Realistically, it's going to be years before they get any of those junctions in. A bus lane could give the bus a 'head start' into the junction. Of course this depends on how close you could get the bus lane to the junction without reducing the capacity. You would only have the lane near junctions, and the lane could still be used for emergencies.

Like you say though, a motorway bus service isn't much good for anything except a few express routes.

Even for the 75, there aren't that many people actually using it to go from one end of the route to the other. They use it for some segment of the route (Dundrum-Tallaght to go to the Square, for example). So an express might not get that much traffic.

One thing that could be done would be to have an 'express' around the M50 with mini-bus stations close to the Interchanges where you could change on to a local bus or a shared taxi service.

Genghis

Perth in Australia also run trains down the centre of their motorways. Worked very well as I remember correctly. Each station was above the motorway, and every second station or so was a major bus terminus for integrated services.

Trebor

Originally posted by Genghis
Perth in Australia also run trains down the centre of their motorways. Worked very well as I remember correctly. Each station was above the motorway, and every second station or so was a major bus terminus for integrated services.

this was the kind of system i was thinking of. thanks for all the replies.

jd

Originally posted by Trebor
Was just wondering would it be possible or feasible to run a light rail system along the centre of the motorway, the grass area seperating the traffic?

Gradients may be an issue.