Duke Nukem 4ever? will it come out?

User45701

There is a new trailer for it from E3 so mabe it will happen after all
I cant post a link to a site with the file cause the place i get torrents off including this movie happens to have lots of music ****e to DL.

tman

:rolleyes:
calm yourself child, it'll be done when it's done

User45701

WTF? i downloaded it and it said E3 2004 DNF trailer and its the very old trailer. thats bull****

CombatCow

Originally posted by User45701
WTF? i downloaded it and it said E3 2004 DNF trailer and its the very old trailer. thats bull****

Shock horror,:rolleyes: They evan said they were not going to show it at this years E3.


CombatCow

Venom

Who cares.

DNF will never live up to the hype or expectation for so long a development time. How many years is it now anyways? FPS style games have come a long way since DN3d and Id rather have a good new game rather than a bog standard rehash. Even the screenshots they released ages back from the new engine at the time look dull way back then compaired to the current batch of games.

l3rian

Who cares.

2nd that, its not like theres a shortage of fps ers

lordsippa

I'm mostly interested in it out of curiosity... Plus, I dunno, it might just have the same charm dn3d had... Could be the retro fps that all of us who still play the odd bit of quake and doom have been waiting for... OR they could have spent the time well and it could be just utterly amazing!

... or the next Daikatana...

tuxy

its the new daikatana
the only thing it will be good for is refering to it in jokes

Karl Hungus

Would you really want to play it at this stage?

It's just a joke now.

Dont be at yourself

Would I really want to play a game created by the people who gave us DN3D, who are under no financial or time restrictions to create the game they've always wanted to create, and release it only when they're 100% happy with it?

No, of course not. What am I, some sort of idiot?

lordsippa

I'd still like to give it a shot, maybe only a demo... The graphics will probably barely be up to standards, but who knows... it could be absolutely brilliant to play!

Giblet

Last I heard they weren't using the Unreal engine, they changed it to their own engine. So this would mean the THIRD change. No-one knows what It will look like.

CuLT

DNF overstimulated me years ago and now the tension has subsided.

bizmark

Think its something like 7 years this game (myth?) has been in development.....which is crazy they might not be under any time limits but ffs 7 years! thats takeing the piss

Karl Hungus

7 years is indeed taking the piss, bizmark...

But who the hell in their right minds would finance such a blatant money-pit!?
The mind boggles...

This is fine if you actually have something to show for your efforts, like Doom 3 or Half Life 2, where the years of developement can actually be seen, and despite set-backs, they are actually getting released as opposed to constantly flipping about and mucking around with different engines.

As for nakeys comments on the developers having the time and freedom to create the game they've always wanted create... Rubbish! At this point I doubt they even know themselves what they want to 'create'.

Lets not forget the abysmal Duke Nukem: A Time To Kill, and the utterly horrible Duke Nukem: Manhattan Project! With those in mind I'm not sure I'd want to play another Duke game, no matter what 'bells-and-whistles' the developers can add-on if the game is ever released.

I seriously don't think that another Duke game could have anything to add to today's FPS genre... Serious Sam has already trailed out the silly baddies and OTT weapons ad absurdum. I'm also pretty unsure what more pig-faced aliens, or Duke's silly puns and catchphrases would do to revolutionize gaming either.

krattapopov

im sure at some stage it will come out...

what ever you will like or you loathe it:

but im on the positive of side of things... and i back up the positive comments in previous responses... i hope that the next duke nukem will rock... i hope that they will give us a fans game... thats right a fans game.. thats what everyone ultimately wants an ultimate game for us....

duke nukem has been a fantastic game for me as i have grown up from pc > console and back again...... i only hope that the next duker releasises the potential for the genre... and grow on it..... .

kratz

ps excuse my ramblings

im drunk

bizmark

Originally posted by Karl Hungus


But who the hell in their right minds would finance such a blatant money-pit!?
The mind boggles...

Didnt 3d realms make max pyane and its follow up....so i douth they are a poor company but 7 years and noting to show for it thats crazy i mean look at what there saying on their site.

There is no release date set, we are not taking pre-orders for the game. End of story.

There is no date. We don't know any date

Christ sake 3d realms cop yourselfs on i was a young lad playing duke 3d im pushing on 20 now (im so old lol) before this game is out most of your target "duke fans" wont have the time to play the damn game or have moved on to great games like doom3 (long term doom player from the snes days here too) Half life 2 battlefield 2 etc.

Dont be at yourself

Originally posted by Karl Hungus
7 years is indeed taking the piss, bizmark...

But who the hell in their right minds would finance such a blatant money-pit!?
The mind boggles...

3D Realms are financing the game themselves, completely.

This is fine if you actually have something to show for your efforts, like Doom 3 or Half Life 2, where the years of developement can actually be seen, and despite set-backs, they are actually getting released as opposed to constantly flipping about and mucking around with different engines.

I think you're perhaps confusing 'having something to show' with actually showing something. It's beeen seven years, and most of that time has been spent working with the Unreal technology. Of course they have something to show for it. But why would they? The hype that surrounds the likes of Doom3 and Half-Life cannot be good for the development of those games, and 3D Realms are in a situation where they can reveal as much or as little of their game as they want!

As for nakeys comments on the developers having the time and freedom to create the game they've always wanted create... Rubbish! At this point I doubt they even know themselves what they want to 'create'.

Why is it rubbish, exactly? I think it's pretty obvious that they do know what they want to create, and that's the problem - they won't release it until it matches up to what they want.

I seriously don't think that another Duke game could have anything to add to today's FPS genre... Serious Sam has already trailed out the silly baddies and OTT weapons ad absurdum. I'm also pretty unsure what more pig-faced aliens, or Duke's silly puns and catchphrases would do to revolutionize gaming either.

You've played Duke3D, yes? To describe it as being some sort of gimmicky 'silly' game is to grossly undersell it. You have to compare it to the other games around at the time. And Duke Nukem 3D was amongst the best of its genre when release, and remained so for years afterwards. It was revolutionary. What's to say the next one won't be? What's to say the next one even needs to be?

Giblet

Half-life 2 was in development for 6 years before we seen a screenshot, so you can't really say they were showing us the stages of development. I would buy this game, as I had great times playing Duke3d when it came out. All that was going against it was Final Doom, Duke3d looked so ahead of its time.

ykt0di9url7bc3

I've been playing the win32 port of Duke3D every so often...multiplayer is a bitch to get working but i'll be getting this game no matter what anyone says...even if its released 2009....

...and if its never released, i'll prolly still play d3d for a long time to come...

looking for a win32 of redneck rampage atm with all this nostalgia

Karl Hungus

Originally posted by bizmark
Didnt 3d realms make max pyane and its follow up....so i douth they are a poor company but 7 years and noting to show for it thats crazy i mean look at what there saying on their site.

Was I the only one who wasn't amazed by Max Payne?
It was a fun little shooter, but nothing more.

Originally posted by NekkidBibleMan
I think you're perhaps confusing 'having something to show' with actually showing something. It's beeen seven years, and most of that time has been spent working with the Unreal technology. Of course they have something to show for it. But why would they? The hype that surrounds the likes of Doom3 and Half-Life cannot be good for the development of those games, and 3D Realms are in a situation where they can reveal as much or as little of their game as they want!

The hype surrounding Doom 3 and Half Life 2 didn't seem to have any effect on the sales of Farcry, so I simply cannot agree with that statement. If 3D Realms had a decent original game, I'm sure it would stand up to the competition. But I don't see them coming out with an original game, nor one that is anyways 'decent' for that matter.

And if memory serves me correct, they did actually show plenty of the game a few years ago, and I even had a video from the game on some cover disk that looked pretty nifty at the time. But now, they still seem to be fumbling around trying to make a product that could match up to the shooters of today.

Originally posted by NekkidBibleMan
Why is it rubbish, exactly? I think it's pretty obvious that they do know what they want to create, and that's the problem - they won't release it until it matches up to what they want.

It's rubbish because it's pretty obvious that the game they've been creating has been constantly put back and re-done in the face of newer products that seem to be superior from the developers point of view. So they try to match up to the newer product, and by then, something else has popped its head up and provided a threat to Duke.

Originally posted by NekkidBibleMan
You've played Duke3D, yes? To describe it as being some sort of gimmicky 'silly' game is to grossly undersell it. You have to compare it to the other games around at the time. And Duke Nukem 3D was amongst the best of its genre when release, and remained so for years afterwards. It was revolutionary. What's to say the next one won't be? What's to say the next one even needs to be?

Yes, it was pretty revolutionary back then, because when have you seen such blatant nudity and vulgarity in a game before!? I don't dismiss that it was indeed a great game for its time, because yes indeed I've played it, and certainly liked it... But the key phrase here is "Great game for its time" and compared to todays games, it is gimmicky and it is silly. And while that certainly gave Duke it's charm, the joke has gotten old now.

Does it have to be revolutionary?
No, because as we all know, the same old crap rehashed again and again with shiny new graphics makes a REALLY good game! :rolleyes:

bizmark

Was I the only one who wasn't amazed by Max Payne?

I found it a fun but gimmicky 3d shooter it wasnt as good as the hype made me think tbh.

No, because as we all know, the same old crap rehashed again and again with shiny new graphics makes a REALLY good game

Man makes a good point there Duke isnt going to be a "great game" if it was EVER going to be a "great game" it would have been released a long long time ago during the time when mindless swearing shotting every thing that moves and collecting red/green/blue key cards was still accpted as great fun i dont see mister duke worrying Doom3 half life 2 battlefield 2 (or doom4 half life 3 BF3) tbh.

BLITZ_Molloy

I'll continue to watch this game. It's easy to get frustrated with the delays but at least they aren't baiting people with videos and screens every month.

Duke Nukem 3D was a fantastic shooter. Innovative weapons, lots of comedy and absolutely fantastic level design. If 3D Realms can recreate something like that I'll be more than satisfied.

tman

Originally posted by bizmark
Didnt 3d realms make max pyane and its follow up....so i douth they are a poor company but 7 years and noting to show for it thats crazy i mean look at what there saying on their site.

no.
remedy made the game, they have a good relationship with 3drealms after using the old build engine to make a game (exhumed)
3d realms just offered a bit of guidance for the development of max payne 1 & 2.

DNF is one game that i won't be getting excited about until it's actually gone gold.

Dont be at yourself

Originally posted by Karl Hungus
[The hype surrounding Doom 3 and Half Life 2 didn't seem to have any effect on the sales of Farcry, so I simply cannot agree with that statement.

Missing my point. The hype surrounding the development of Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 isn't damaging other games, it's damaging the development of Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 - there's such huge pressure and hype surrounding the two games that the sev teams simply cannot deliver the game the public expects. 3D Realms are giving the public no expectations whatsoever, they are working in an environment without pressure.

If 3D Realms had a decent original game, I'm sure it would stand up to the competition. But I don't see them coming out with an original game, nor one that is anyways 'decent' for that matter.

Who is to say they don't? Just because they're not showing a game that stands up to competition, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

And if memory serves me correct, they did actually show plenty of the game a few years ago, and I even had a video from the game on some cover disk that looked pretty nifty at the time. But now, they still seem to be fumbling around trying to make a product that could match up to the shooters of today.

Yes, that'll be the E3 video based on the UT build of the game, I'd imagine. Quite a few years ago, and it looked pretty finished back then. And seeing as the transition in engines since then has been to gradually more advanced versions of that same engine, they're not so much fumbling around playing catch-up as polishing and fine-tuning, I'd say.

It's rubbish because it's pretty obvious that the game they've been creating has been constantly put back and re-done in the face of newer products that seem to be superior from the developers point of view.

You say as if the game has been binned and restarted on numerous ocasions - this is simply not true. Over the last years, they've simply progressed onto the most up-to-date Unreal engine, as it becomes available. To do otherwise would be commercial suicide, and the cost in terms of time wasted etc. is insignificant when compared to the rewards.

Yes, it was pretty revolutionary back then, because when have you seen such blatant nudity and vulgarity in a game before!?

The Duke 3D engine was the best of it's kind. Interactivity on such a level was never seen before in a computer game, certainly not a first person shooter. It was far more than some crude pastiche of tits, swearing and guns.

I don't dismiss that it was indeed a great game for its time, because yes indeed I've played it, and certainly liked it... But the key phrase here is "Great game for its time" and compared to todays games, it is gimmicky and it is silly. And while that certainly gave Duke it's charm, the joke has gotten old now.

What? You actually think that you can judge a company's next game by comparing a game that's what, nearly ten year old(?), against today's games? Of coCompare it with the games of its time, and it was a great game, as you agree. If they're capable of creating one back then, then why not now?

regeneration

I don't know how long ago, or how much memory has clouded facts, but I recall one concrete delay from the mouths of the devs/publishers was that Duke Nukem could not be packaged into one Amaray case, as it would require that many CDs to fit on. Now this must have been before DVDs began to take off as a viable storage medium, so whether this was publisher stalling talk or wha tI don't know.

I love the way that this game crops up in gaming discussion every now and again, and people become so divided between those who officially don't give a sh!t about this game, and those who will defend it's insane development cycle with talk of "no pressure" and artistic intergrity. As a viable commercial product, which it is, it's either a gold mine or a turkey; and the publishers (can't recall they're name) have already in the past expressed cynicism and pessimism.

If anything hurts this game, it will be history and competition; Duke Nukem is a name from the past of gaming - we've seen what kind of reaction sales=wise and review wise when people remake old classics - Simon the Sorceror 3D etc. And Duke Nukem: Manhatten Project I don't think covered the world with glory either. It's risqué humour is hardly fresh and original anymore either.
And of course there's the competition - no one needs to mention HL2 or Doom3 (and in defence of Hl2, at least they kept their game COMPLETELY secret until 4 months prior to a tentative release date). Plus add to that other noteworthy developments like Stalker, Call of Cthulu etc.

Though perhaps the most worrying thing is that at E3 we saw the demos of the third unreal (wow btw) engine displayed - does that mean I wonder that 3D realms will jump ship AGAIN to this engine? It's their own cash I suppose, so 3D Realms can take as long as they want really, I just wonder if it's time well spent.

BLITZ_Molloy

They certainly aren't tuning and polishing at the moment. Last time they talked about the game (maybe 3 months ago) they'd switched onto the newest Unreal tech again. They said the game wouldn't run properly on todays computers. We're talking another 2 years plus.

Karl Hungus

Originally posted by NekkidBibleMan
Missing my point. The hype surrounding the development of Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 isn't damaging other games, it's damaging the development of Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 - there's such huge pressure and hype surrounding the two games that the sev teams simply cannot deliver the game the public expects. 3D Realms are giving the public no expectations whatsoever, they are working in an environment without pressure.

Even so, HL2 and D3 will sell shedloads reguardless. I can't even imagine an event that would stop the hordes of gamers lining up to get their grubby mitts on HL2 when it eventually rears it's sleepy head.

The same cannot be said for Duke, and I'd argue that giving the public 'No Expecatations' would only ruin the games chances for any kind of mass-appeal.

Originally posted by NekkidBibleMan
Who is to say they don't? Just because they're not showing a game that stands up to competition, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

But they did show a game that could have stood up to the competition years ago, so it's conceivable, that if they had so much to show for back then, that if they've made any progress with newer engines that they would have something to show again.

Originally posted by NekkidBibleMan
Yes, that'll be the E3 video based on the UT build of the game, I'd imagine. Quite a few years ago, and it looked pretty finished back then. And seeing as the transition in engines since then has been to gradually more advanced versions of that same engine, they're not so much fumbling around playing catch-up as polishing and fine-tuning, I'd say. You say as if the game has been binned and restarted on numerous ocasions - this is simply not true. Over the last years, they've simply progressed onto the most up-to-date Unreal engine, as it becomes available. To do otherwise would be commercial suicide, and the cost in terms of time wasted etc. is insignificant when compared to the rewards.

Mindless optimism can only go so far... So I'm sorry if I can't share your enthusiasm in this. But it seems that you're just beleiving the jargon that's contstantly spewed by PR men who've probably less of a clue about the actual development than a small blind hedgehog that's living in a gutter somewhere in Leitrum.

I honestly don't know how you can possibly claim that it would be "Commercial Suicide" not to progress to the most up to date engine! If anything, constantly holding back a game that was all but finished years ago, in the light of ever-dwindling intrest from the entire gaming community, while having previously churned out other games with the "Duke" brand to absolute critical and commercial failure, and keeping up a face that "It'll be ready when it's ready" is the real commercial suicide!

And to be altogether entirely blunt, I'd nearly say you're completely niave to think otherwise.

Lets say Duke Nukem Forever was eventually released, with the lovely "No Expectations" PR spin in mind, I can clearly see some bloke in a game store, holding the Duke box in his hands, wondering if it's only just come out, or should it have long since been confined to the budget section.

Originally posted by NekkidBibleMan
What? You actually think that you can judge a company's next game by comparing a game that's what, nearly ten year old(?), against today's games? Of coCompare it with the games of its time, and it was a great game, as you agree. If they're capable of creating one back then, then why not now?

I'm wondering how on earth you can one minute question my skepticism that having created a great game in the past, they shouldn't nessicarly be able to create a great game now, then use that same precident to claim they should be able to make a decent one now.

So, if we were to say for one minute that they would absolutely make a great game based on past acheivements, then by that logic, the creaters of Frogger should be able to make a great game today. Or, if we cut closer to home, that logic would dictate that Duke Nukem: Manhattan Project should've been a great game, or Duke Nukem: A Time To Kill...

But they weren't...
They were festering piles of unbeleivable crap that I wish were never inflicted on me.

So again, you'll have to forgive me if I can't get into the whole mindless optimism mindset of "The same people who gave us Duke Nukem 3D!"

Dont be at yourself

Even so, HL2 and D3 will sell shedloads reguardless. I can't even imagine an event that would stop the hordes of gamers lining up to get their grubby mitts on HL2 when it eventually rears it's sleepy head.

The same cannot be said for Duke, and I'd argue that giving the public 'No Expecatations' would only ruin the games chances for any kind of mass-appeal.

Get your head away from sales figures and discuss the quality of the game - as that's what we're talking about here. Undoubtedly the hype around big games will boost their sales, but it also places the dev teams under huge pressure - and the quality of the game will inevitably suffer as a result.

But they did show a game that could have stood up to the competition years ago, so it's conceivable, that if they had so much to show for back then, that if they've made any progress with newer engines that they would have something to show again.

Well, exactly. I don't think anybody is doubting that they've a fair portion of the game in the can. But again, just because they have something to show, it doesn't meant they want to show it. This is going around in circles a bit, isn't it?

Mindless optimism can only go so far... So I'm sorry if I can't share your enthusiasm in this. But it seems that you're just beleiving the jargon that's contstantly spewed by PR men who've probably less of a clue about the actual development than a small blind hedgehog that's living in a gutter somewhere in Leitrum.

As it happens, I'm actually non-plussed about DN4E, just presenting the other side of the argument. As for believing jargon that's 'constantly being spewed' by PR men, well... when's the last time you've heard anybody from Take2 or 3D Realms talk about the game? Excluding the sporadic forum posts by people! actually! working! on! the! game!, I can't really think of anybody. And I dare say that they know a teensy bit more than a small blind hedgehog living in somewhere whacky and hilarious. Indeed, Take2 are so silent and removed on the game, it's not on their release schedule, nor is it mentioned in any press packs, financial reports or profit forecasts.

I honestly don't know how you can possibly claim that it would be "Commercial Suicide" not to progress to the most up to date engine! If anything, constantly holding back a game that was all but finished years ago, in the light of ever-dwindling intrest from the entire gaming community, while having previously churned out other games with the "Duke" brand to absolute critical and commercial failure, and keeping up a face that "It'll be ready when it's ready" is the real commercial suicide!

And to be altogether entirely blunt, I'd nearly say you're completely niave to think otherwise.

Well, I think we have to face facts and realise that unless the game features all the bump-mapped, real-time lighted, rag-doll physiced bells and whistles, the graphic-whoring PC game buyers aren't going to be that interested. They cannot release a game running on old tech in this market, especially with the likes of Doom3 and HL2 around the corner. It would be madness.

I accept your point that they've somewhat tarnished the Duke Nukem brand with their other output, though.

Lets say Duke Nukem Forever was eventually released, with the lovely "No Expectations" PR spin in mind, I can clearly see some bloke in a game store, holding the Duke box in his hands, wondering if it's only just come out, or should it have long since been confined to the budget section.

Exactly. They cannot release a game that can't cut the mustard from a technology point of view - they have to keep up with the technology curve.

Stark

I'd play Duke Nuken Forever just for the novelty of seeing the strippers in non-pixelated form

bizmark

Originally posted by Stark
I'd play Duke Nuken Forever just for the novelty of seeing the strippers in non-pixelated form

Arent you gay ?

Id play it again just for the memorys tbh

Karl Hungus

Originally posted by NekkidBibleMan
Get your head away from sales figures and discuss the quality of the game - as that's what we're talking about here. Undoubtedly the hype around big games will boost their sales, but it also places the dev teams under huge pressure - and the quality of the game will inevitably suffer as a result.

And I suppose poor sales couldn't affect the dev teams, and by extention, the quality of the game, and future games? I'd certainly argue that good sales would allow more scope for the developement of better games.

So seeing as there's no game to speak of to discuss the quality of in the first place, it's a completely null-point you're pushing there. So we're pretty much left to speculation on whether the game can be any good.

Lets not forget that todays gaming is leaning far more towards multiplayer, and a decent multiplayer community can pretty much make a game succeed. Low sales, less popularity, and therefor feck-all community! Any intrest in making a decent mod for the game is also killed from the off because of this.

It's pretty evident that popularity is a factor here, and by extention, sales... So on this issue, there's no way I'm getting my head away from any such figures.

Originally posted by NekkidBibleMan
Well, exactly. I don't think anybody is doubting that they've a fair portion of the game in the can. But again, just because they have something to show, it doesn't meant they want to show it. This is going around in circles a bit, isn't it?

Of course it's going around in circles! We can only guess whether or not there is anything to show or not, and we could indeed continue this back and over for ages. It's just my opinion that they haven't anything to show, as they're still playing catch-up with todays games and technology.

Originally posted by NekkidBibleMan
As it happens, I'm actually non-plussed about DN4E, just presenting the other side of the argument. As for believing jargon that's 'constantly being spewed' by PR men, well... when's the last time you've heard anybody from Take2 or 3D Realms talk about the game? Excluding the sporadic forum posts by people! actually! working! on! the! game!, I can't really think of anybody. And I dare say that they know a teensy bit more than a small blind hedgehog living in somewhere whacky and hilarious. Indeed, Take2 are so silent and removed on the game, it's not on their release schedule, nor is it mentioned in any press packs, financial reports or profit forecasts.

I wouldn't expect that you're anything but non-plussed about this. This is after all, only a discussion board, and that's exactly what's so fun about it in the first place. The contrary position of the arguement will always be a lot more interesting than a few guys going 'Yup' at various points made.

As for the 'PR Men' comment, I meant that more in the rhetorical sense of the general every day PR Man who's constantly spewing jargon, and that your comments of "No expectations/preasure/hype/whatever" sounds like pure PR spin, rather than based on any factual spin. The metaphysical PR man, if you will.

Originally posted by NekkidBibleMan
Well, I think we have to face facts and realise that unless the game features all the bump-mapped, real-time lighted, rag-doll physiced bells and whistles, the graphic-whoring PC game buyers aren't going to be that interested. They cannot release a game running on old tech in this market, especially with the likes of Doom3 and HL2 around the corner. It would be madness.

I accept your point that they've somewhat tarnished the Duke Nukem brand with their other output, though.

When that lovely E3 vid that looked like a completely finished game was released, there was no such things as rag-dolls physics, or any of the graphical features of the games of this era. I'd say you're completely missing the point by re-itterating that fact! I'm not saying they should release the game they had then into todays market, but that they probably should've released it then when it looked like it was a really decent game. Who cares if it still needed a few tweaks? Most games need constant patching for quite some time after their release, so why not Duke?

My only thoughts on why they didn't is that they must have had a severely sub-standard product back then, and decided to scrap it altogether, and start from scratch.

And seeing that they went ahead and released two extremely sub-par games with the 'Duke' name brand, without any such bells-and-whistles of todays shooters, the 'Missing' Duke of years past must've been one really ****e game for them not to release it! Despite how cool the video did look.

This is all speculation and personal opinion of course, but going on what's available, and that there's no real information to the contrary, I think it's quite a reasonable point of view.

And seeing as you accept that the Duke brand has been tarnished with the previous sub-par releases, would you not agree that the holding back, and presumably scrapping of Duke Nukem Forever has also tarnished the franchise?

Dont be at yourself

And I suppose poor sales couldn't affect the dev teams, and by extention, the quality of the game, and future games? I'd certainly argue that good sales would allow more scope for the developement of better games.

But seeing as the sales will only happen after the game is released, they won't have much of an influence on the quality of DN4E. They will perhaps have an influence on support (patches and mod community support and whatnot), but then DN4E isn't going to be rushed out a la most PC games, so instances of bugs should be fairly minimal. And by the sounds of things, it's a fairly single-player focused game. Indeed, last I heard, (which was around the time of the E3 trailer, I reckon), multiplayer wasn't even confirmed.

So seeing as there's no game to speak of to discuss the quality of in the first place, it's a completely null-point you're pushing there. So we're pretty much left to speculation on whether the game can be any good.

And to take it a step forward, how likely it is to be good.

I fully accept that there is a possibility of Duke Nukem 4Ever being a terrible Daikatana-esque game, but, to my mind, it will probably be a good, if not great, game - for reasons mentioned above.

Lets not forget that todays gaming is leaning far more towards multiplayer, and a decent multiplayer community can pretty much make a game succeed. Low sales, less popularity, and therefor feck-all community! Any intrest in making a decent mod for the game is also killed from the off because of this.

There's still very much a market for single-player centred games, though. The likes of Far Cry, the upcoming S.T.A.L.K.E.R and even Doom3 are far more focused on single-player than multiplayer.

As for the 'PR Men' comment, I meant that more in the rhetorical sense of the general every day PR Man who's constantly spewing jargon, and that your comments of "No expectations/preasure/hype/whatever" sounds like pure PR spin, rather than based on any factual spin. The metaphysical PR man, if you will.

If by that you mean I'm sounding somewhat like an eternal optimist with regards to this game, then I absolutely agree with you. But while my argument is laced with optimism, yours is equally as steeped in pessimism!

When that lovely E3 vid that looked like a completely finished game was released, there was no such things as rag-dolls physics, or any of the graphical features of the games of this era. I'd say you're completely missing the point by re-itterating that fact! I'm not saying they should release the game they had then into todays market, but that they probably should've released it then when it looked like it was a really decent game. Who cares if it still needed a few tweaks? Most games need constant patching for quite some time after their release, so why not Duke?

I don't think anybody wants to see a half-baked game requiring months of patches released onto the market. The game obviously wasn't finished (not to a state that they were happy with it, in any case) back then, or it would have been released.

And seeing that they went ahead and released two extremely sub-par games with the 'Duke' name brand, without any such bells-and-whistles of todays shooters, the 'Missing' Duke of years past must've been one really ****e game for them not to release it! Despite how cool the video did look.

The other two Duke games were basically money spinners to finance the development of Duke Nukem 4Ever, weren't they? So while their quality was questionable, so was 3DRealms' effort invested in them. I don't think, after 7 years, anybody can question the effort they're putting into Duke Nukem 4Ever though.

And seeing as you accept that the Duke brand has been tarnished with the previous sub-par releases, would you not agree that the holding back, and presumably scrapping of Duke Nukem Forever has also tarnished the franchise?

I don't know. Duke Nukem is one of PC gaming's greatest characters really, and I think everybody accepts that Duke Nukem 4Ever is the successor to Duke Nukem 3D, and they, by in large, block out the other games - or at least accept them for what they are, spin-offs of the series.

The lengthy development cycle of DN4E has obviously damaged the brand though, as evidenced by this very thread.

Is1ldur

Originally posted by tman
no.
remedy made the game, they have a good relationship with 3drealms after using the old build engine to make a game (exhumed)
3d realms just offered a bit of guidance for the development of max payne 1 & 2.

DNF is one game that i won't be getting excited about until it's actually gone gold.

As far as I am aware, Exhumed was made by Lobotomy Software, now sadly deceased....It did use the Build engine as you say, though.

Karl Hungus

Originally posted by NekkidBibleMan
But seeing as the sales will only happen after the game is released, they won't have much of an influence on the quality of DN4E. They will perhaps have an influence on support (patches and mod community support and whatnot), but then DN4E isn't going to be rushed out a la most PC games, so instances of bugs should be fairly minimal. And by the sounds of things, it's a fairly single-player focused game. Indeed, last I heard, (which was around the time of the E3 trailer, I reckon), multiplayer wasn't even confirmed.

Every single game out there has bugs up the wazzoo, and reguardless of how well-developed the game might be, it will still require patching after release. Warcraft 3 still gets a regular patch every so often, as did Diablo 2, and just about any other well-developed game you can imagine. Furthermore, Blizzard are a pretty big and respectable company, who don't exactly have the preasure of smaller companies on their heads, and can indeed take their time on projects.

My point is, you could spend forever fine-tuning and trying to iron out all the bugs imaginable, but that just isn't going to happen. And no matter what size test team they might have, they're not going to be able to find as many bugs as Joe Public and his feedback.

To suggest the notion of 'Minimal Bugs' is just being downright niave.

As for the lack of multiplayer... If there was more proof needed that the developers were quite inept, then that's it! The multiplayer possibilities of the game, considering Duke's interesting array of weapons, are quite broad in scope.

Originally posted by NekkidBibleMan
There's still very much a market for single-player centred games, though. The likes of Far Cry, the upcoming S.T.A.L.K.E.R and even Doom3 are far more focused on single-player than multiplayer.

I don't doubt there's a market for it... in fact, my game of choice would be moreso singleplayer than multiplayer, and a nice RPG that I can play away on for hours is definetly something I love.

So don't get me wrong on this, and my above statement...
I just think that Duke with good multiplayer would be a very solid plan.
Doom3 on the other hand, while I'm certainly looking farward to it, I can't really see what multiplayer would add to the game. Certainly we all have fond memories of being scared out of our wits with the previous Doom games, and that's obviously what ID are trying to re-capture, albiet in a more up to date game.

Originally posted by NekkidBibleMan
If by that you mean I'm sounding somewhat like an eternal optimist with regards to this game, then I absolutely agree with you. But while my argument is laced with optimism, yours is equally as steeped in pessimism!

This is true.

And in fact, this is probably the entire arguement right here.
A Cynical outlooks Vs. an Optimistic one.

I generally keep a little motto in mind, which goes something along the lines of "Always expect the worst, so if things go wrong you're not as bothered, but if something goes your way, you're twice as happy!"

So with that said, I'd gladly eat my words if Duke was any good at all.

But I do think you've hit the nail on the head there with that one, and without any definite game we could agree on, it's all speculation doused in opinion and which outlook you'd take. So I don't think I'd really bother arguing this point anymore, but it was a great arguement thus far!

I'll just finish off by commenting on this last bit I've quoted.

Originally posted by NekkidBibleMan
The other two Duke games were basically money spinners to finance the development of Duke Nukem 4Ever, weren't they? So while their quality was questionable, so was 3DRealms' effort invested in them. I don't think, after 7 years, anybody can question the effort they're putting into Duke Nukem 4Ever though.

Perhaps that could be said for Manhattan Project, but I do think that A Time To Kill was released quite some considerable time ago, so that's debatable. Either way, money-spiner or not, that's no reason for releasing such unbeleivable sub-standard games.