Where are the WMD's? Er.. in Syria of course!

Sleipnir

You'd think the Bush administration would have more sense than to use the WMD's line again.
I wonder how far down the 'Axis on Evil/Invasion" list Syria is ?



Syrian President Bashar Assad has challenged the basis of US sanctions against his country imposed by the Bush administration earlier this week. The US Government said it was introducing the sanctions because Syria allegedly possessed weapons of mass destruction and had allowed militants to cross its border to resist the US occupation of Iraq. President Assad denied the charges today and challenged the US provide evidence to support its allegations. The sanctions ban all US imports to Syria except food and medicine and also forbid direct flights between the two countries. The US also demanded that Syria expel Palestinian militants based on its territory, but Assad refused to do so today. The Syrian Government regards Palestinian militants as legitimate opponents of Israel's illegal occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

Wrestlemania

Syria in my eyes is a terrorist state and helps back the likes of Hizbollah and Ammal.

It also has the biggest stock pile of Chemical and Biological Weapons and developing (apparently) a Nuclear Weapon programme to counter the Israeli Samson Option.

To be honest maybe the Coaltion Invaded the wrong country, Syria have been for years throwing there weight around and Housed a considerable amount on Nazi war criminals, which the also used in 1948 to help wipe out the fledgling Israeli state aswell as quite a lot of Friendly Arabs who happened to be in the New State.

And they still have 30,000 Troops + in Beruit and the the Bekka Valley and being very oppresive to the Lebanesse government in more ways the one.

So in a nutshell, I reckon they do have the WMD's.

Washout

So in a nutshell, I reckon they do have the WMD's. [/B]

I ownder if a similar feeling was felt about iraq. at the time of the pre invasion of iraq i kind of too felt that Iraq had WMD but still thought the invasion was unjustified without the backing of the UN.

I am even more convinced that Syria has such weapons but the Us govt has to be alot more careful than they had been with Iraq.

I dont think the US will do anything until after the Presidential election there.

Wrestlemania

Geographically it is a ba5tard to invaded and very close to the Israeli and Lebanesse frontier which could cause a serious destablisation of the region.

Sleipnir

Well, I can't see how they could invade Syria without really scaring the Arab world in general. It really would look like America was trying to take the entire region by subterfuge i.e.
It would be great for them to have control of both Iraq and Syria.
They would have friends all around them, Jordan to the south, Turkey to the north, Saudi to the south and only the nasty Iran to deal with to the west.

Of course, oil is again nothing to do with it seeing as Syria has 2.4 bbl reserves and crude accounts for 70% of their exports. Not to the U.S. though!

Amazing that the war in the Congo has resulted in the deaths of about 3 million people (although only 10% directly by conflict) and yet the brave Americans aren't storming their way in to bring peace & prosperity.

Wrestlemania

Oil equals more than life mostly everywhere these days

kahlua

I doubt the Americans are gonna invade anywhere else considering the backlash they got for Iraq.

mr_angry

Originally posted by Wrestlemania
So in a nutshell, I reckon they do have the WMD's.

It'd be nice to see some (proper) evidence though, wouldn't it?

Wrestlemania

True and I agree..

But it is confirm that they have a huge chem/bio weapons stockpile.

Only time will tell.

Lemming

Originally posted by Wrestlemania
But it is confirm that they have a huge chem/bio weapons stockpile.

Confirmed according to whom?

This is where the problem now lies. The US has _UTTERLY_ destroyed any credibility and intregrity it may ever have had on the world stage (and even on it's own domestic stage to an extent) and it will find any attempts to do similar in future all the harder as fewer and fewer countries will be willing to lend their support.

Wrestlemania

http://www.state.gov/t/us/rm/24135.htm

http://cns.miis.edu/research/wmdme/syria.htm


FYI

Sleipnir

Originally posted by Wrestlemania
http://www.state.gov/t/us/rm/24135.htm

http://cns.miis.edu/research/wmdme/syria.htm


FYI

The state department released exactly the same sort of 'proof' as a reason to invade Iraq.
That proved that you can't take what the U.S. administration says as proof!

sovtek

Originally posted by Wrestlemania
Syria in my eyes is a terrorist state and helps back the likes of Hizbollah and Ammal.

Then I guess America is too if you consider the following...

It also has the biggest stock pile of Chemical and Biological Weapons and developing (apparently) a Nuclear Weapon programme to counter the Israeli Samson Option.

Syria have been for years throwing there weight around and Housed a considerable amount on Nazi war criminals,

which the also used in 1948 to help wipe out the fledgling Israeli state aswell as quite a lot of Friendly Arabs who happened to be in the New State.

And they still have 30,000 Troops + in Beruit and the the Bekka Valley and being very oppresive to the Lebanesse government in more ways the one.

...as justification for invasion.
Just replace America with Syria and you've just about got the same argument.
Nevermind that the fledgling Israeli state set out to take over the surrounding countries mentioned land in 1948.

Wrestlemania

This is off topic, Israel was setup by the UN, when independance was gained they were then to fight a war against surrounding arab countries hell bent on wiping them out.

They were not the agressors and there local arab neighbours believed in there state aswell but the likes of Syria, Jordan,leabnon and egypt wanted to wipe out a tiny state.

No wonder they take no sh1t of anyone.. Imagine that happened to Ireland back then.

The lands they took were from the agressor and they were quite happy with their state until the evil Muchta and Nazi backed arab forces wanted to annihilate them and this is fact, in all history books.

America has it's issues but are no way a terrorist state.I don't agree with a lot of there policies but they are more democratic and civilised compared to Syria.

America has it's issues but are no way a terrorist state.I don't agree with a lot of there policies but they are more democratic and civilised compared to Syria.

What defines a terrorist state? The ignoring of International Laws? The bringing of war against others? In what way has the US not performed similiar acts to these Terrorist states. Theres only two main differences between the US and a Terrorist state. 1) Its a western Nation, so of course its civilised. 2) Its the worlds only true superpower. If any other nation on this planet had acted in a similiar fashion, it would be targeted, sanctioned, and probably invaded.

The US are Exempt, because no nation has the military or economic capacity to keep them in line.

Syria, is just another stepping stone, for the new Western Imperialism.

vorbis

Syria, is just another stepping stone, for the new Western Imperialism.

yawn.
I think the sanctions are for more likely to be because of alleged support for Iraqi insurgents than the wmd issue. Personally, I believe that groups like Al Qaeda and insurgents need some place to strike from. Theres also the issue of the groups seemingly never running out of ammo. Someones got to backing them.

chewy

hmm syria is now helping iraqi inusrgents when about two /three months ago syria was helping iraqi terrorists and former batthist so which is it?

Wrestlemania

They are all the same anti-colation forces for a PC term

The Corinthian

Syria may well have some ‘WMD’. So what? It’s actually allowed to according to international arms agreements.

With regards to the support of terrorism charge, however, this is probably quite well founded. Damascus has long been at best turning a blind eye to militant Palestinian groups in its territories. This laissez faire approach towards militant Arab groups has probably also been adopted with regard to Iraqi insurgent groups.

This would be a more probable reason for the present US moves against Syria. That and it bolsters Israel - given Syria is now the only potential external threat on her borders - is another.

It’s unlikely that the US will invade or even carry out military strikes on Syria for the foreseeable future, however. She’s overstretched in an increasingly unpopular conflict in Iraq and a campaign in Afghanistan, increasingly reminiscent of the Soviet experience. Nonetheless, Syria is now officially a pariah state and so US foreign policy towards her is unlikely to change regardless of who wins in Novembers US presidential election.

sceptre

Originally posted by Wrestlemania
This is off topic, Israel was setup by the UN

(Just to head the inevitable shout of at the pass...), unlike some people I don't have a problem with the continued existence of Israel. I'm not accusing /anyone/ here but I'd rather not to have to run through the difference between "Israel" and "Jewish" again. I think we could all do without that

Israel wasn't set up by the UN. It declared its independence unilaterally on May 14, 1948. The closest the UN had come to setting up the state of Israel was the resolution of November 29, 1947 calling for such a state to be set up and asking the inhabitants of the territory to get off their asses and do something about it. Obviously there was quite a bit of discussion on the borders that would exist and how to accommodate the two groups that had settled there, leading to the abandoned partition plans of 1947. And of course there was the 1917 mandate.

Not set up by the UN though.

You're right on one thing though - it's a little off-topic. I'm not going to deal with the agressor thing as that's totally off-topic.

Wrestlemania

True and Well Said.

I think the sanctions are for more likely to be because of alleged support for Iraqi insurgents than the wmd issue. Personally, I believe that groups like Al Qaeda and insurgents need some place to strike from. Theres also the issue of the groups seemingly never running out of ammo. Someones got to backing them.

I dunno whether Syria is officially helping these insurgents. Sure, there is a desire to fight against the occupation, but whether the Syrian Government is actually supplying insurgents with training/weapons, I doubt it.

Thing is, despite the lack of major wealth for the general populase in Arab countries, all it takes is a number of influential/rich business men to support such operations. Also to note that with any occupied country there would have been plenty of small arms placed away for the chance that the country was occupied and the occupiers needed to be resisted.

Perhaps i'm being too naive but I doubt Syria has the balls to back Insurgents against the Coalition especially with the US acting like a bull in a china shop. No. I'm sure theres groups of sympathic people in Syria and other arab countries, that are helping out, but I don't see any real evidence that Syria is acting against the US as a Nation.

Edit. Also to note that Syria and its allies might be more capable of resisting an allied attack than Iraq did alone. Syria has closer ties to the other Arab Nations, and their armies while not top-notch are quite decent. Political strutting is what i expect to see for a few months.

Wrestlemania

The Iraqi army never handed in there guns just brought them home, same with RPG's Mortars, SA-7 etc etc and Plenty of Plastic Explosive.

In reference to wealth in the Arab world there is plenty in about 20% of the entire population.

I would say Syria would or could be supplying weapons via lebanon and possibly training fighters there. That is a theory I have, Since the IRA were also trained in Lebanon aswell.

Victor

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/syria/index.html

Originally posted by Wrestlemania
It also has the biggest stock pile of Chemical ....Weapons

.... on the Middle East - but only one of something like 41 around the world.

Originally posted by Wrestlemania
and developing (apparently) a Nuclear Weapon programme to counter the Israeli Samson Option.

Apparently not.

Originally posted by Wrestlemania
To be honest maybe the Coaltion Invaded the wrong country, Syria have been for years throwing there weight around

Really? Other than being part of the coalition that freed Kuwait in 1991, who have they attacked recently?

Originally posted by Wrestlemania
and Housed a considerable amount on Nazi war criminals,

Linkies?

Originally posted by Wrestlemania
And they still have 30,000 Troops + in Beruit and the the Bekka Valley and being very oppresive to the Lebanesse government in more ways the one.

... for example?

Originally posted by Wrestlemania
So in a nutshell, I reckon they do have the WMD's.

Of course they do, who doesn't? Importantly it hasn't or isn't using them.

Originally posted by Wrestlemania
http://cns.miis.edu/research/wmdme/syria.htm

Whoot! 5-year old source.

Originally posted by Wrestlemania
I would say Syria would or could be supplying weapons

Why would the supply weapons when vast quantites were cached around Iraq before the war?

Originally posted by Wrestlemania
via lebanon

But Lebanon and Iraq don't have a mutual border.

Originally posted by Wrestlemania
possibly training fighters there.

So it's not Al Qaeda / Special Republican Guard / M14 / Fedayeen Saddam / local hotheads / criminals .....

Wrestlemania

Victor for you information there is 30,000 troops from syria in leabnon in beruit and bekka...look on the net if your so concerned.

And as for Nazi's have another good look plenty of nazi's were hunted down and killed by nazi hunters in damascus..

These are facts and not idealistic or left wing fables they are pure facts.

There was no syrian troops in desert storm they proved safe passage for downed pilots and escaped members of SAS patrols.

Aparently yes to nuclear weapon research, if you love the net have a look.

Lebanon is another massive training area and out of reach of american and coaltion forces

The Corinthian

Originally posted by Wrestlemania
Aparently yes to nuclear weapon research, if you love the net have a look.

Actually when a claim is challenged the onus is generally upon the claimant to back up his / her claim rather than those challenging. Otherwise, anything you may say can be treated as fantasy, fabrication or simple wishful thinking.

Big Ears

The thing is though none of us sitting at home/work thousans of mile away from syria and Lebbanon ( well most of us anyway ) have no clue whats actually going on , infact I doubt any western countries have a clue what exactly goes on there .

Victor

Originally posted by Wrestlemania
Victor for you information there is 30,000 troops from syria in leabnon in beruit and bekka...look on the net if your so concerned.

Did I dispute this? I was wondering how Syria was "being very oppresive to the Lebanesse government in more ways the one." (Please note the Syrian presence in Lebanon is sanctioned by the Arab League.

Originally posted by Wrestlemania
And as for Nazi's have another good look plenty of nazi's were hunted down and killed by nazi hunters in damascus..

A google throws up "After WW2 Alois Brunner found gainful employment courtesy of the CIA and later he escaped to Syria where he became a government adviser." http://www.deathcamps.info/Nazis/page_9.htm

Originally posted by Wrestlemania
These are facts and not idealistic or left wing fables they are pure facts.

Are you sure name calling will get you anywahere?

Originally posted by Wrestlemania
There was no syrian troops in desert storm they proved safe passage for downed pilots and escaped members of SAS patrols.

They needed "17,000 troops, 300 T-62 tanks" to do this? Where do you think the Syrian 9th division was during the war?

Originally posted by Wrestlemania
Aparently yes to nuclear weapon research, if you love the net have a look.

Well reaserch indicates not a lot of progress on thier behalf.

Originally posted by Wrestlemania
Lebanon is another massive training area and out of reach of american and coaltion forces

But why would they want to go their. There is no evidence at all to suggest Lebanon is being used as a supply route for weapons of a training ground for people fighting in Iraq.

<edited by bonkey to fix URL tag>

Moriarty

Originally posted by Sleipnir
Of course, oil is again nothing to do with it seeing as Syria has 2.4 bbl reserves and crude accounts for 70% of their exports. Not to the U.S. though!

I've been thinking about this recently but it's still a rather fuzzy idea, so bear with me. I'm throwing some questions and ideas out to see what others think.

What's so inherently wrong about the US invading countries for 'regime change' to secure oil supplies for the world market? It was an excuse often bandied about for Iraq, and it's brought up again and again when talking about different trouble spots around the world - their stocks (or lack there of) of oil.

Before you rush to that reply button with a colourful reply, pause for a moment. Oil really is the backbone of the western world. We get large amounts of our electricity from it. It almost universally powers all transport over land, sea and air. It provides us with plastics aswell as a whole raft of other materials that the modern world simply can't work without for a moment. I'm sure I'm forgetting other very important uses for it.

Now, if we accept that oil is probably the most important raw material that the western world is based upon, why is it so wrong to secure these supplies, to remove control of these supplies from generally bad regiemes that don't have their own populaces best intrests at heart? From regiemes that could quite concievably withold supply completely if they thought it necessary.

It seems to me that this is a massive blind spot to the large majority of people. They equate oil reserves to gold or diamond reserves, when they have a vastly different and more important significance.

From regiemes that could quite concievably withold supply completely if they thought it necessary.

Thats the thing though. Its their oil. Its not a shared resource that everyone has a right to. The Oil lies within their borders, and if they decide not to sell, they have that right.

The other aspect is that if this resource is so valuable why does the US consume so much of it in a wasteful manner? Oil shouldn't be a reason to go to War. At least not an acceptable one.

Wrestlemania

Lebanon is mostly likely a training ground for terrorist as was Libya.

I have heard unconfirmed reports from Leabnesse Friends living in Dublin that Hizbollah are actively training "Iraqi's" and Foriegn Fighters and sending them then through Syria Enroute.

Hizbollah are both backed by the Iranians and Syrians.

In regard to Syrian influence being oppresive in more ways than one in Lebanon, they have there finger in every pot so to speak and the Lebanesse have being trying to get them out for years to rule there country by themselves.

I have heard many a person from beruit sick to the hilt with the syrians, they are kind of an invader in a manner of speaking aswell. As they still hold a lot of the major posts in government and are still the dominant military and secret police.

As with the Nazi's a film based on Fact called "The Exodus",with Paul Newman..Wouldc explain a lot in regard to this.

Regarding the Syrian Troops I stand corrected!

halkar

Why not invade Israel? They probably have most WMDs and nukes and yet no one else in the region to have them. Who gives them the right to have nuke capabilities and yet no one else allowed in the region? They are protecting their interests against Israel as far as they concerned and they see them as threath so they have every right to do so if they have any nuclear activities. Its none of US bussiness, unless of course black gold is involved.
I guess someone in the Jewish lobbies in US are tickling Bush's ass again

Wrestlemania

The Israeli's Nuclear Deterent keeps all the other countries at bay and also stops them from getting wiped out by all the hostile Arab countries.

halkar

Rubbish! why should I feel safe because they have nuclear arsenal? They are far more fanatic then Arabs can ever be and why should they be trusted?
My question is other countries have every right to nuclear arsenal as long as Israel keeps her own and threats the region. Looks like no one doesn't want to go to the root of the problems and throwing the ball to the other rubbish claims.

Wrestlemania

Not to get in an arguement.

Do you see Israeli Suicide Bombers no.
Do you see Israeli's Amputuating or beheading people no.
Do you see Israeli's preach pure hatred in there schools and worldwide no.

Do you see Israeli's make women mere shackles of society no.
Did Israeli ever ask for war no.
Israel reacts to aggression.
Each time there was a truce or peace agreement the other side broke it.


They dont look like fanatics, they look like people who just want to live, why should they struggle or goto war.

The Samson Option is an option that will keep the region stable as no-one wants to be nuked and if it is used Israel will be destroyed aswell.

What is so wrong with these people.

In 1948 two states were setup, why could'nt each live in peace and let the Jews from Europe and there live in Peace.

The Islamic Fundametalists and terrorists are the fanatics, because at the end of the day it is not going acheive anything more than resentment from the non-muslims in the World and even some of there own.

Sleipnir

Originally posted by Wrestlemania
Do you see Israeli Suicide Bombers no.
Do you see Israeli's Amputuating or beheading people no.
Do you see Israeli's preach pure hatred in there schools and worldwide no.

No but they have shot and killed quite a few children.
Or does that not count because it's not 'terrorism'?

Zulu

Originally posted by Wrestlemania
Not to get in an arguement.
Do you see Israeli Suicide Bombers no.

Gimmie a break - they don't need Suicide bombers - they have F-16 Strike Bombers :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Wrestlemania
Do you see Israeli's Amputuating or beheading people no.

Amputuation and beheading are part of there society - circumcision is part of the Jewish society - it's amputuation - perhaps decapitation aswell.

Originally posted by Wrestlemania
Do you see Israeli's preach pure hatred in there schools and worldwide no.

There are fanitic Isrealis aswell - Mossad aren't exactly nice people.
And I suppose young children being fired at with live ammo for throwing rocks at a tank is a symbol of love for life?

Originally posted by Wrestlemania
Do you see Israeli's make women mere shackles of society no.
Did Israeli ever ask for war no.
Israel reacts to aggression.
Each time there was a truce or peace agreement the other side broke it.

Bulldozing houses with the occupants inside isn't agressive. Building walls around peoples houses isn't agressive????

Not to get in an argument??? Advice - don't make stupid remarks so.

halkar

Past is past, take your head out of the sand and stop repeating yourself with 1948 stuff, soon you will go to holocoust too. Israel commits many crimes and gone against UN far many times then other countries in the region did. They don't know anything about human rights unless of course you are a Jew. It is alright for any Jew of the world to go and settle in Israel but it is not alright for Palestinians to go back to their homes that was taken by force. Even for arabs in Israel it is not alright to marry any palestinian unless they leave the country or live apart. And call themselves democratic? All because they have elections doesn't make them democratic.
And their schools are full of stuff from 2000 years ago plus everyone has to go to army for more brain wash.
You said it yourself, Jews from Europe, what about Palestinians from Europe? Do they have any right to go back to Israel? Do you think Israel will give them land and houses and money to setup their homes? Still talking about democratic Israel?
All they do is brag about their arms and technology and yet if anyone else try to do the same in Middle East gets invaded. As I said no one wants to go to the roots of the problems.

Wrestlemania

Zulu get real another person never being there yet you know it all..

Get your facts right aswell and come back with your crusty left wing hippy rubbish or are you on of those idiots that goes into the westbank and thinks i am going to stand in front of a Merkeva. Get Real.

Oh and by the way this is all totally of the point!we are talking about Syria, yet you all bring in Israeli....A Lot of Racism I detect.

And why if these Palentinans claim part of Israel to be there land yet they Hold Jordanian Passports or 80 to 90% of them do mmmmmm suspect.

I did'nt see much brainwashing in the IDF, when myself and Woody were there when we were 18 . They are a pretty down to earth army. And the PA security Forces are professional and not Brainwashed, gimps in uniforms with Ak47 and the Koran in there back pocket.

Wrestlemania

Halkar as we disagree on this point.

I would suggest we agree to disgree. We are always arguing the same thing!:D

Gurgle

Excellent source of facts & figures:
CIA World factbook
USA:
Military expenditures - dollar figure: $276.7 billion (FY99 est.)
UK:
Military expenditures - dollar figure: $31.7 billion (2002)
Israel:
Military expenditures - dollar figure: $8.97 billion (FY02)

Iraq:
Military expenditures - dollar figure: $1.3 billion (FY00)
Syria:
Military expenditures - dollar figure: $858 million (FY00 est.); note - based on official budget data that may understate actual spending.
Iran:
Military expenditures - dollar figure: $9.7 billion (FY00)

Syria looks like an excellent candidate for liberation.

The Corinthian

Originally posted by Wrestlemania
In regard to Syrian influence being oppresive in more ways than one in Lebanon, they have there finger in every pot so to speak and the Lebanesse have being trying to get them out for years to rule there country by themselves.

The same could be said for the Israeli occupation of Lebanon. Try reading P. J. O’Rourke’s ‘Holidays in Hell’.

I have heard many a person from beruit sick to the hilt with the syrians, they are kind of an invader in a manner of speaking aswell. As they still hold a lot of the major posts in government and are still the dominant military and secret police.

Hearsay - and rather disturbingly the closest thing you’ve presented to us as evidence.

As with the Nazi's a film based on Fact called "The Exodus",with Paul Newman..Wouldc explain a lot in regard to this.

Well, if it was in a movie it must be true. After all, when a few years ago a movie came out and pointed out that it was the Americans and not the British that broke the Enigma code, that must have been true too.

The Israeli's Nuclear Deterent keeps all the other countries at bay and also stops them from getting wiped out by all the hostile Arab countries.

Then you would consider retaliation with nukes acceptable if Israel was attacked with conventional forces?

Do you see Israeli's Amputuating or beheading people no.

It’s very difficult to do a clean decapitation from a helicopter gunship.

Do you see Israeli's preach pure hatred in there schools and worldwide no.

Actually you do. A large number of the Israelis who live in the settlements do so out of religious fever and a belief that they are the chosen race. Gentiles (Muslim, Christian or otherwise) are considered inferior. I think the Germans had words for these terms...

Did Israeli ever ask for war no.

That whole “get out we’re taking your land” thing wasn’t a little provocative then?

In 1948 two states were setup, why could'nt each live in peace and let the Jews from Europe and there live in Peace.

Last time I looked the Palestinians were still waiting on theirs.

The Islamic Fundametalists and terrorists are the fanatics, because at the end of the day it is not going acheive anything more than resentment from the non-muslims in the World and even some of there own.

Had it not occurred to you that Israeli actions have led to resentment from Muslims? That this in turn has fuelled support for Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism?

You have a remarkably one-sided view. And not a lot of evidence backing it up either.

halkar

I am not talking about Racism and I have nothing against Israel since I have been there few times and it is a great place to be only if things were a little better.
My original point was about Israel's WMDs and uncontrolled nuclear capabilities and yet no other country is allowed. If Israel thinks that they need them for their security, Syria can have the same reason and yet we hear talks of them being sanctions or possibly invaded. And to me that is where the root of the problems. US policy of being one sided in Middle East and causing more hate and terror than doing any good to the world.

Wrestlemania

I would like to go back to Israel with my family but alas it is to dangerous, I would hope than maybe in the future some peace can be acheive as it must be tiresome also for both sides.

I have no problem living with Muslims or anyone as long as each other respects themselves.

The Corinthian

Originally posted by Wrestlemania
I have no problem living with Muslims or anyone as long as each other respects themselves.

Unfortunately much of the problem arises in the idea of a state based upon a single ethnic group, when in reality it is populated by more than one. In its current incarnation Israel, regardless of its population, is not a multicultural state; it was a state founded to represent one ethnic group. This in effect disenfranchises any citizens or residents that do not belong to this ethnic group - leaving them in a position whereby they must accept being second-class citizens or emigrate. In fairness, a Palestinian state would most likely be just as exclusive - but frankly no worse.

So while you may have no problem living with Muslims or anyone, you must accept that you appear to only have no problem living with them as long as it was on your terms. Hardly a realistic recipe for peaceful co-existence, is it?

vorbis

is it just me but what in the world are the iranians spending 9.7 billion dollars on? That seems huge in comparison to its neighbours.

Also once again, why are people discussing the wmd issue so much? Logically it seems the main reason for sanctions against Syria is for alleged support for iraqi insurgents.

Also Corinthian, haven't the israelis withdrawn from Lebannon now? Indeed, its a bit naieve to think that with 30000 troops in the country, Syria isn't exerting significant control over Lebannon. Being sanctioned by the Arab league is nothing major. Do you also expect to get indepth reports about the situation in Lebannon? No one really cares enough about the place to do any indepth research there.

The Corinthian

Originally posted by vorbis
Also Corinthian, haven't the israelis withdrawn from Lebannon now?

I was just trying to demonstrate that there is (or was) little difference between Syria and Israel on the issue (except that the Syrians were more popular with the locals according to O'Rourke, AFAIR).

halkar

Considering the size of the country and population and the surrounding countries Iran's spendings are not much considering Israel spends $8.97 billion where ever they get it from.
What is your point vorbis? Should we invade US? they spent $276.7 billion and they have WMDs and who knows what else.

Wrestlemania

The Leanesse are not to happy with the Syrians, last time I was in Beruit in 1999.

The average person on the street was sick off them and there fickle minded corruption.

Check out the Daily Star Newspaper in Lebanon there is an online edition in english.

It is generally very impartial and wrote by both christian and muslim journalists.

Iran with a budget that big, i cringe to think what they are up too.

The actual arab league sanctioning those troops there does not have much clouth as the lebanesse both sides dont really want anyone there, They want to rule themselves.

Wrestlemania

Originally posted by The Corinthian
Unfortunately much of the problem arises in the idea of a state based upon a single ethnic group, when in reality it is populated by more than one. In its current incarnation Israel, regardless of its population, is not a multicultural state; it was a state founded to represent one ethnic group. This in effect disenfranchises any citizens or residents that do not belong to this ethnic group - leaving them in a position whereby they must accept being second-class citizens or emigrate. In fairness, a Palestinian state would most likely be just as exclusive - but frankly no worse.

So while you may have no problem living with Muslims or anyone, you must accept that you appear to only have no problem living with them as long as it was on your terms. Hardly a realistic recipe for peaceful co-existence, is it?

Corinthian i am chrisitan not jewish and i dont expect terms for my neighbours just mutal human respect..no more no less.

I come from a mixed family as does Woody another poster here.

vorbis

Considering the size of the country and population and the surrounding countries Iran's spendings are not much considering Israel spends $8.97 billion where ever they get it from.
What is your point vorbis? Should we invade US? they spent $276.7 billion and they have WMDs and who knows what else.

I just thought it seemed very large. Afaik, iran has very little outstanding "enemies" in the senes that a large army is needed against them. i.e. this means the Americans are excluded. They also to the best of my knowledge don't project force abroad, so thats another major cost factor excluded. Syria on the other hand shares a significant border with israel and has 30000 troops in Lebannon. It however has one tenth of the budget that Iran has. I'm not suggesting invading them. Just curious as to what they're spending the money on.