Enterprise Season 3, Episode 18: Azati Prime

TCamen

So I enjoyed these two eps quite a bit, especially when they were preceded by the crapness that was Hatchery.

Towards the end of 'Azati Prime' I was sure we were looking at the destruction of Enterprise, then a timetravel reset in the next episode, but thankfully the writers didn't go that way.
Pity T'Pol's addiction wasn't introduced to the audience earlier, cos she just seemed to deteriorate over the two episodes, rather than the months she claimed. Still it's a nice get-out clause for her having sex with Trip though hehe.
I thought 'Azati Prime' had a nice season finale vibe to it all, the FX were excellent, especially the wrecked Enterprise towards the end.
Great understatement was Malcolm shouting "We can't take much more of this!" when the ship is lying in tatters around him, thought it was funny
The introduction of the Sphere Builder female reminded me of the Female Changling we got in DS9 a little too much, but she still worked nicely. All evil and arrogant hehe.
The future war was nicely handled, though I wasn't massively loving the Enterprise J. The shot of the Prometheus-type vessel out the viewport was nice too.
Where does the 29th Century ppl that were influencing the Suliban fit into all of this I'm wondering? Are they just gonna ignore them?

Dunno why Sky decided to show them together, as they weren't really different from other episodes this season except maybe the cliffhangers were a tad more immediate, but they weren't a massive change from the ongoing installments we've had all season. I actually preferred the ending of 'Damage' to that of 'Azati Prime'. In saying that, I felt the impetus of the Xindi weapon arc slowed down a bit in 'Damage'. The ethical dilemma was well handled for Enterprise, but I still kinda preferred the urgency of 'Azati Prime'.

Oh, and anyone who thinks Enterprise has no decent character-based elements, there were plenty of top-notch scenes with T'pol/Archer, Phlox/Archer, Phlox/T'Pol, Trip/Archer, Trip/T'Pol.
Fine there's a clear favouring of a handful of characters, but they were all well-serviced in these 2 episodes, and Reed, Hoshi & Mayweather actually got more than a few lines each, so can ya really complain?

Pity it's back to one episode next week!

Azati Prime 9/10
Damage 8/10

Forgot to mention the Trek guest star.... took me a while to place Casey Biggs, I recognised the name, couldn't remember who he was until I heard the voice

Moriarty

Jah, both good eps.

Full of stuff, can't fault them for trying to thin out the plot. I enjoyed them both, good pair of eps to have back to back, they were quite different and complimented each other well.

User45701

what where is biz and data? they normely post a topic or a comment at 9.00
neway yes both very very good epsidoes i loved them but i had a ****ing 6/7 week gap between watching them both. Ye every1 thought it would be ENT destruction with time reset button.

Next episode is good aswell, damage shows them more going twards the Terran empire stye of things *User keeps his fingers crossed"

Woden

Originally posted by User45701
what where is biz and data? they normely post a topic or a comment at 9.00

aye sorry i had a friend down and ended up taping the episodes. just after finish watching them there. tired though and will comment tomorrow and tidy up the titles and perhaps split into two threads and stuff.

kudos to achilles who reminded me there where two eps tonight otherwise the tape might have got stopped i would have been pissed off and i would have had to download it.

was there a big effect on the monday night DC moriarty?

Moriarty

Originally posted by Dataisgod
was there a big effect on the monday night DC moriarty?

Fairly. I wasn't there till after 10 myself

MrVestek

Yer welcome data. Just buy me a big ol bottle o' coke and we'll call it quits. It's weird cus i never usually watch a-lookielike-kira-prise (thwarted!!! hehe) but i just decided to last night. Then that sulty english voice on sky tells me there's two eps. Then i thought 'hrm.... wonder if data realises that, cus he usually tapes it' text message sent... yadda yadda... bing something tiddly poop

*rambles on into the night*

shinzon

yep have to say cant fault these at all, although cant figure out why they had a big viewport on the enterprise j, nicely placed for a few photons to smash through, pity they didnt have a budget to build a bridge, would have liked to have seen the action take place there

As for the t'pol drug scenes, whered that come out of, it was a cop out to be honest, in the space of 2 episodes whe went from Vulcan to a complete wreck

Anyhoo both good eps

Shin

MrVestek

Ohh also was i the only one who noticed a prometheus flying past the viewport when they were on the enterprise j?

bizmark

Its a alternive timeline !!! "They have the ablity to scan ALTERNIVE timelines they have seen this timeline and are trying to change it so they win" Class thank you thank you thank you

Anyway who every does the Sfx for enterprise really really needs a pay hike the guys are amazeing most of the time it makes Stargate sg1 look 5 years out of date..I hated the E-j state of it looks like some skinny ugly super model that view port made no sence either stuck right at a exposed area of the ship with out much reasion for it .Cant understand why the prommy and Nx-01-A was in that fight prommy would be around 140+ years old Nx-01-A wasnt even a real federation ship so someone really ****ed up there or the federation was REALLY doing badly in that war before they won.

The second ep Damage was class yet again sfx amazeing the ship looked very cool with all the holes in it im asumeing its going to stay that way till the end of the year when it returns to earth for a big refit.Finaly a reasion for topals actions Archer growing some balls is nice doing what was needed.The guy that played demar back as the alien captian happy to see that

Enterprise has a good bit to go before its Ds9 or TNG stander but with them admitting this is a alternive time line from what Really happed (which points to a big reset button) im pritty happy.

what where is biz and data

I was playing X2 the threat all night :dunno:

User45701

Was i the only 1 who spotted who elce besides damar was in that episode?

If it is the same timeline it makes no sence
f it is a different timeline it makes no sence

bizmark

Originally posted by User45701
Was i the only 1 who spotted who elce besides damar was in that episode?

If it is the same timeline it makes no sence
f it is a different timeline it makes no sence

It was the actor that played demar not demar himself

And what does "if its the same timeline it makes no sence and inf it s a different timeline it makes no sence" comment mean ....It makes perfect sence if its a alternive timeline

NeoSlicerZ

Did anyone besides me see a Klingon like ship? on the very bottom left of the "window" there's a ship silouetted by the explosion.

Mightn't have been a prometheus class, might have been a different class but with that kind of shape. Enterprise J looks crap.. like a Sovvy with inverted nacelles

Woden

casey biggs plays damar i think and salome jens was the woman from the xindi council, i only rememberd the second one though after either some one mentioned it above or i had heard it previously elsewhere

data

Roller Toaster

Great episode I thought, it's the first time Enterprise has suffered major casualties right? About the bald woman from the future...it would have been cool if she had actually been a changling who after the dominion wars developed that time gate thing to destroy the Federation before they ever engaged in battle.

The whole morality bit with the other ship wasn't really all that well handled I thought, I mean why couldn't they just have agreed to come back and help them afterwards or send them towards Xindi space? As far as I know the Xindi are only hostile towards humans.

I think Enterprise is turning a corner in terms of quality and I can't wait to see what the next series has in store. All is forgiven for lasts week's abomination.

User45701

Yes it is the female shpeshifter actor - i didnt know her name

Originally posted by NeoSlicerZ
Did anyone besides me see a Klingon like ship? on the very bottom left of the "window" there's a ship silouetted by the explosion.

Mightn't have been a prometheus class, might have been a different class but with that kind of shape. Enterprise J looks crap.. like a Sovvy with inverted nacelles

Well spotted on the kligon ship - it is there and appears to be a vorcha probbley vorcha mk2

Originally posted by bizmark


And what does "if its the same timeline it makes no sence and inf it s a different timeline it makes no sence" comment mean ....It makes perfect sence if its a alternive timeline

What i ment Biz was that

if it is the same timeline it makes no sence cause nothing is working out the way it is supposed to be

If it is a alternite timeline then it still makes no sence- we know that the aliens contacted the Xindi and told them humanity was a threat and to attack them - yes all makes sence so far but it dosent explain several things

1.Where is the 10th planet in our system

2.What is the expance doing there? - mabe the expance was created by the spheres but from what we know the spheres reconfiger space , why create a expance if you are just going to get rid of it?

3.Who are the Xindi? Did the aliens travel back in time and create the Xindi species billions of years ago?

4.How does a attack on earth make a romulan ship with warp drive appear a year previes to that. Remember there was a romulan ship that ENT encounterd? we know that the romulans have **** all in the way of warp tech in this era.

5.Perhaps the timline being different is caused by BOTH the silibon future contact and the Xindi Future contact
The Sulibon future contact said that the Xindi future contact is from another faction - possibly lying

6.Also we havent heard of dinoblians before i suppose they just didnt mention lots of these races in ENT in other star trek sereis.

Originally posted by Roller Toaster
Great episode I thought, it's the first time Enterprise has suffered major casualties right? About the bald woman from the future...it would have been cool if she had actually been a changling who after the dominion wars developed that time gate thing to destroy the Federation before they ever engaged in battle.

The whole morality bit with the other ship wasn't really all that well handled I thought, I mean why couldn't they just have agreed to come back and help them afterwards or send them towards Xindi space? As far as I know the Xindi are only hostile towards humans.

I think Enterprise is turning a corner in terms of quality and I can't wait to see what the next series has in store. All is forgiven for lasts week's abomination.

The recent few episodes are written by a new/different writer than the others i think.
Aslo the current plan is to finish season 3 of ENT then make 1/2 of season4 and then decide to contuine with ENT or cancell it

Roller Toaster

Relax man, theres still 4 seasons to go. Plenty of time to clear up all those loose ends

Woden

right i've time to get around to it

really liked azati prime, liked the tough moral decision of destroying the xindi outpost that was well done.

also liked the torture scene and the baiting of the reptile about how they are eaten on earth. kinda true romancesque. what i did think would be moring interesting though if you notice with the xindi they have made the people we are not familiar with the evil ones i.e the reptiles and the insectoids where the ones we kinda get on with are the primates and the humanoids while the aquatics are kinda neutral. this is a bit predictable and may have been more interesting if the humanoids where the more hostile ones.

the action was good and the damaged ship with the 3 crew members flying out and the reference to them later i liked. i also like the character of degra (sp?)

good ep overall.

now damage i was a little bit disappointed with, like moriarty said yes they are dragging out the plot til the end of the season i suppose but i thought it would have went a bit further.

again tough decisions made by archer which i like. however i agree with shinzon i i think it was about the t'pol drug thing which seemed to come from nowhere but the mention of her enhanced interaction with the crew kinda made sense. poorer then azati prime but still good enough.

Woden

now with regards to the discussion, we are currently in an alternate timeline due to the influence of this changling type creature the sphere builders and what not who has caused the xindi to attack us. as far as i was concerned we where seeing the future that would happen if the big blob was allowed to continue to expand. the sphere builders wanted this to happen and went back in time to change things as they weren't happy with how things where going along.

this paves the way now for archer to sort things out with the xindi for the sphere builders and the expanse to go away and for history to continue on in as we know it with some changes due to the influence of the future people, like in that DS9 episode past tense when sisko's picture replaces gabriel bell but on a larger scale i reckon but the overall federation and what not is intact.

now to try to respond to some of user's concern

1. there is no real 10th planet in a our solar system, pluto itself is barely as planet as it has a satellite that is half its size i think (charon its moon) and as i say its barely a planet

2. the expanse gets cleared along with the spheres but against of the wishes of the sphere builders and history goes on as we know it.

3. the xindi are just the xindi will probably end up being just another species perhaps one of the founders of the federation for all we know, that just never got a look it before now?

4. i don't know, wasn't it a bop in the original series that didn't have warp drive are we sure that all there ships didn't. or perhaps they are getting tech from the future also, no need to all your eggs in the one basket with the xindi only trying to wipe out earth.

5. time thing will sort it self out

6. yeah same about the denobulians as the xindi, ie. not really mentioned.

data

User45701

2- does tyhe expance get cleared away?
Its very hard to say stuff when we have no real concept of time, When where the spheres built and if they can build/deploy spheres why not build/deploy a shere in earths orbit and wipe out the population?

sceptre

Originally posted by User45701
1.Where is the 10th planet in our system

Maybe we decided not to call it a planet. Or maybe they got wise and decided that Pluto was an insignificant asteroid after all. Or maybe it's a TV show.

(edit: I see data has already covered this one)

bizmark

Originally posted by User45701

What i ment Biz was that

if it is the same timeline it makes no sence cause nothing is working out the way it is supposed to be

If it is a alternite timeline then it still makes no sence- we know that the aliens contacted the Xindi and told them humanity was a threat and to attack them - yes all makes sence so far but it dosent explain several things

1.Where is the 10th planet in our system

2.What is the expance doing there? - mabe the expance was created by the spheres but from what we know the spheres reconfiger space , why create a expance if you are just going to get rid of it?

3.Who are the Xindi? Did the aliens travel back in time and create the Xindi species billions of years ago?

4.How does a attack on earth make a romulan ship with warp drive appear a year previes to that. Remember there was a romulan ship that ENT encounterd? we know that the romulans have **** all in the way of warp tech in this era.

5.Perhaps the timline being different is caused by BOTH the silibon future contact and the Xindi Future contact
The Sulibon future contact said that the Xindi future contact is from another faction - possibly lying

6.Also we havent heard of dinoblians before i suppose they just didnt mention lots of these races in ENT in other star trek sereis.

Take a snap shot im going to defend enterprise

1. So

2. Alternate timeline the sphere builders built them in the past (being alternate) to create the expanse the federation time police more than likely destroy it before Tos

3. Xindi might have been noting before the sphere builders started messing around with the timeline and will be noting when the federation fixes the timeline (or a minor race anyway) remember its advanced future tech that has allowed them build the super weapon same must be true of there advanced engines

4. Scotty could have meant by "there POWER!! Is merely impulse" that there source of power is fusion based and not anti matter which would make the Warbird hopelessly underpowered against the Enterprise.....Then again we never seen those rommy ships (in enterprise) go to warp so they may not have warp drive.......Its the cloaking device that needs explaining BUT if the timeline has been messed with to create two hostile advanced races (suliban and Xindi) you would expect that each race would put a LOT more effort into defense technology cloak for the romulans Photons for earth etc

6. Minor race not important

Sleepy

Loved 'em both. Yes, the drug thing came out of left field but I still think it added to her character development. Was good to see Mayweather get a bit more screen time. Also liked watching Archer take tough decisions that darken his role (I always prefer morally ambiguous characters).

Two thumbs up!

User45701

A few points.

1.Creating the Expanse is pointless if there just going to destroy it.

2.U said Xindi would be minor race once spheres are destroyed by time pollice but if the spheres are destroyed the expance wont have existed. I think eithout the unqueness of the Expance the Xindo wouldent have evolved,

Woden

the spheres could just be destroyed now though and the xindi already exist? or even if they never existed thats fine as well as it would explain why they weren't around in the 24th century

but where around in the century with the E-J as the whole blob thing was still there

data

bizmark

Originally posted by User45701
A few points.

1.Creating the Expanse is pointless if there just going to destroy it.

2.U said Xindi would be minor race once spheres are destroyed by time pollice but if the spheres are destroyed the expance wont have existed. I think eithout the unqueness of the Expance the Xindo wouldent have evolved,

The expanse doesn’t seem to effect planets the Xzindi would still have evolved ....The expanse itself might have been created to hide the Xzindi from out side interference until they developed to a point capable of destroying earth (with some help) that or it just take a FUGE load of time to Galaxy-form the galaxy the expanse is just the first part of the process later growing to 50,000 light years in the future.

It makes sence in a way if the people that created the expanse created it after Tng ds9 and voyager the timeline still stands ....The future fed would just repair the timeline and none of it would have happened so it wouldnt effect the timeline we know

Does that make any sence at all

TCamen

Yes it is the female shpeshifter actor - i didnt know her name

Salome Jens didn't play the Trans-Dimensional Being in 'Damage'.
Josette DiCarlo plays 'Sphere Builder Woman' according to TV Tome.
Josette DiCarlo Bio

shinzon

For a minute there and just for a minute mind you, when i saw casey biggs and the make up he was in, I thought Enterprise was bringing in a very early version of the cardassians, same make up but the brow ridges and scales were less prominent and the ship did kinda look cardassian

Then i though to my self NAH they wouldnt be that clever, plus itd screw up the timeline

But then i thought, well this is an alternate timeline so I suppose they could get away with it

Then i said to myself the whole premise of Azati prime couldnt actually happen, becasue of the fact that in order for Daniels to bring archer to the future to see the battle with the sphere builders, archer would have had to basically completed his mission in the past, therefore we already know the ending of the whole Xindi arc, the reason that the future timeline couldnt exist at this point is because archer hasnt actually won yet so the current timeline will continue as normal until either

A) Archer is defeated hence no future timeline, hence the future hop could not happen as all of humanity was wiped out by the Xindi

or

Archer won and it could have happened

Basically Cause and Effect gentleman, the timeline could not have supported what happened in azati prime because no actual resolution has been reached at this point.

With that my brain has just shut down and it to early for all of this stuff anyway, im back to bed CYAS

Alternate timelines they just give me a headache

Shin

MrVestek

Originally posted by shinzon

Then i though to my self...
Then i said to myself the whole premise...

You do think and talk alot to yerself... dont you?

shinzon

shin

User45701

I only just woke up so i might be off and i cvant reach my on switch...

In 1 episode of voyager they described a few different forms of temperal incrursion.

I think the melting clock effect is a event when you travel back in time to stop something from happening but you going back in time actually causes that event to happen.

Or as Anerax put it.

Very few people have the abality to truley understand time
Past future and present they exist as one they breath as one.

MrVestek

Time all exists as one? Methinks someone needs to be carted off to the nearest psychiatric starbase...

Gyck

Time all exists as one? Methinks someone needs to be carted off to the nearest psychiatric starbase...

Read 'Slaughterhouse Five', Vonnegut has a nice take on the concept of no past/present/future...

MrVestek

I was kidding.... *sigh* Q said something similiar to that too once, if i'm not mistaken, which i probably am.

bizmark

well if you have time travel ablitys then the past future and present would exsit all at the same time becuase you have the ablity to go any where in time you wished*

*If this is total bull**** data made me post it

MrVestek

Hrm well he's got a point... So what... is he there beside you right now or something? Are you rubbing eachother's leg?

bizmark

Er Ach i was passing the blame onto data if my post was senceless rubbish.....Hes not here nor online TWAS MY IDEA!!.....damn my whole pass the buck to data plan is dead

Woden

i'm great that is all

bizmark

get on msn dope

Fuhrio

I was really pissed, i didnt realise they were showing 2 back to back and missed the second one and was away for the repeat today. The first episode was good, shame i didnt get to see the conclusion.