Trading bootlegs

GoneShootin

Ive asked the mod of Trading to look into this, but he may be busy so Im gonna ask ye myself.

Whats boards.ie stance on trading bootlegs ? Some say its illegal, but surely wouldnt be illegal if no money was involved ? These bootlegs would be audience recordings, and not official material.

Id prefer find out first before I post up my available content for other interested users to see and make possible swaps...

Barry Aldwell

Technically you're still indirectly causing artists a loss of profit. It something you'd really have to ask a lawyer about

Dont be at yourself

I've pmed Vexorg about it, but have yet to get a response.

My thoughts:

Legally, it's a grey area, and could potentially get boards.ie into trouble. But, as I understand it, bootleggers are pretty much ignored by the record industry (or even sometimes encouraged, Bowie recently appealed to fans to bootleg, I believe), to the extent that you can go into any number of music shops in Dublin and buy bootlegs of various gigs. So while boards.ie could get in trouble, I'd imagine it's somewhat unlikely.

It's not too dissimiliar a situation from abandonware being allowed on the games forum, in my mind. Both are grey areas, and both are pretty much tolerated by their respective industries.

eth0_

Originally posted by GoneShootin
These bootlegs would be audience recordings, and not official material.

They're usually dreadful quality. How many people go to the bother of taking their minidisc recorder to a gig (and risk confiscation) these days anyway?
And FYI they are illegal, it states so on the back of ticketmaster tickets that recording the show is not legal.

flogen

its difficult to say that your effecting profits if there is no official release of the gig, however as etho said it is illegal to record the gig... technically tho, it may not be illegal to sell recordings of the gig, if you know what i mean, its like Canadas stance on mp3s, its illegal to upload, but not to download.

they often are sh1t quality too, but sometimes you get a good one...

Flogen

therecklessone

AFAIK, its copyright infringment unless you have the permission of the copyright holder.

I heard a lot of the stores in Dublin that used to sell bootleg CDs and videos have ceased of late. Read somewhere that they had been visited by reps from a number of record companies and put in their place.

GoneShootin

All I have gotton back is heresay and conjecture - and no offical word from admins - so the relevant post is here.

Dont be at yourself

Someone's a bit eager.

But yes, it's fine for now. Should this lead to the attempted trading of non-bootlegs, they won't be allowed anymore.

therecklessone

Funny that they aren't allowed in the For Sale section...

Music.

Recopied music in any format is prohibited. Bootlegs, unauthorized live concerts, unauthorized soundboard recordings, unauthorized merchandise, etc., is not permitted.

Its also a breach of federal copyright law and a felony in over 30 states in the US.

http://www.u2world.com/news/article.php3?id_article=181

Trafficking in unauthorized sound recordings is a violation of federal copyright law as well as a felony in more than 30 states.

Probable nobody will object, if the US experience is anything to go by.

There are practical considerations, too. Musicians must object to specific live recordings before the association will step in. While some artists might grouse about retailers who profit from selling their bootlegs, online trades rarely involve money. Artists who prosecute individual fans for merely indulging in music beyond their official CD’s would be about as cool as a Guy Lombardo record.

Jim

Aren't there some record shops in town that sell completly unoffical bootlegs?

therecklessone

Originally posted by Jimeatsmenu
Aren't there some record shops in town that sell completly unoffical bootlegs?

Last time I checked there was, yes, but that was a long time ago.

I was under the impression that they have since given up said practise, after a visit from some legal reps of the record industry and Gardai (nearly sure it was mentioned on here as well, might try a search).

sikes

yeah many of the shops have stopped rhythm records being one....

therecklessone

Knew I'd seen it online...

From www.hotpress.com [sub required so here's the article in full]

Putting the boot in

16 Dec 2003

A police raid on a dublin record store has led to intense speculation that the Gardaí are about to commence a serious crackdown on the retail of bootleg CDs.



The authorities appear to be taking a tougher line on outlets who sell or supply bootleg recordings of live concerts. Rhythm Records, a well-known outlet on Dublin’s Aston Quay was among several premises targeted in Garda raids over the past few months.

It is believed that among the items seized in the raid were unauthorised live recordings of acts such as U2, Bob Dylan, Neil Young and Bruce Springsteen, among others. Rhythm Records has been well known in the past among music fans as an outlet for live recordings of major acts. In fact, following Springsteen’s summer concert at Dublin’s RDS, several contributors to a Bruce Springsteen discussion forum (Brucespringsteen.net) had named Rhythm Records as retailing a triple live CD of the show for €50.

Interestingly, the raid on Rhythm Records was said to have been initiated by a member of the Rolling Stones security team who had visited the shop while the band were in town in September. Apparently, he spotted unauthorised Rolling Stones live albums on sale, purchased one and subsequently made a complaint to the Gardai who carried out the raid. A spokesperson for the Rolling Stones however would not confirm if this is what happened. “If it did take place we’re not aware of it,” he told hotpress.

According to the Gardai spokesman, about 70% of Rhythm Records’ stock – amounting to several thousand CDs – was confiscated in the raid and it is currently being examined and catalogued. He confirmed that a file is expected to be sent to the DPP. Meanwhile, Rhythm Records while confirming the raid had taken place, had no further comment to make on the matter.

The whole question of bootlegs has long been the subject of debate within the industry and among music fans. While piracy (i.e. counterfeit copying) is strictly illegal, the question of unauthorised recordings of live albums remains a grey area. Many acts turn a blind eye to such activity while others actively encourage it. Artists such as Bob Dylan and Pearl Jam and The Who have issued “official” bootlegs to cater for the demand for recordings of their live shows among fans. When U2’s 1989 New Year’s Eve show at The Point was broadcast around the world and widely recorded, custom-made cassette covers appeared in with several magazines including hotpress and Q.

According to Sean Murtagh, who heads up IRMA’s Anti Piracy Unit, it’s up to the artists themselves to take action to prevent bootlegging. “Since we represent record companies whose copyright is not being breached with bootlegs unless one of their trademarks are used, it is not of direct concern to us,” he explained. “There is a perception that some musicians are ambivalent about bootlegs and some bands openly encourage it – The Grateful Dead come to mind. Others are utterly opposed to the illegal taping of their concerts while some artists don’t like it but are wary of stopping it.”

A well-placed source in Dublin’s record retail world told hotpress that up until 2000 Ireland was one of the few countries in Europe where the selling of bootlegs was not considered to be illegal under the law. However, he confirmed that since then it had been made clear to those in the trade that bootlegs were now considered illegal and all that was required for action to be taken was a complaint to the Gardai.

Colm O Hare

Today's lesson is...find out if the band object, if not then you'll be OK...

Jim

Originally posted by therecklessone
Today's lesson is...find out if the band object, if not then you'll be OK...

Sounds very messy,

GoneShootin

RETAIL RETAIL RETAIL RETAIL RETAIL RETAIL RETAIL RETAIL

Im not talking about making money here ! Trade for trade only.

Keeks

Originally posted by therecklessone
Funny that they aren't allowed in the For Sale section...

Thats because your amking a profit from something illegal. Or an extreamly grey aera. Swapping copies of recordings of converts you were at is slightly more torlerated, as it is fans dealing with fans and not someone trying to rip off fans for profit.

therecklessone

Originally posted by Keeks
Thats because your amking a profit from something illegal. Or an extreamly grey aera. Swapping copies of recordings of converts you were at is slightly more torlerated, as it is fans dealing with fans and not someone trying to rip off fans for profit.

And P2P involves no exchange of money, but record labels ain't too happy with that,are they?

It is a grey area. And if I were responsible for boards.ie, I'd be interested in finding out if what's being suggested is legal before allowing it.

I know of at least two bands who actively encourage this (Pearl Jam and my good friends Jetplane Landing), but there maybe bands who object to it.

All I've done is point out some possible legal difficulties. If the mods are happy, then who am I to argue? Best of luck with it then...

MarcusGarvey

Originally posted by GoneShootin

Im not talking about making money here ! Trade for trade only.

A trade is a transaction, you are exchanging goods which have some value. It's still a type of sale even if no money is exchanged. Also if I copy dvds and give them to friends, that is still illegal.

I do know of bands that allow bootlegging and encourage it, wasn't metallica one of them ? So trading their stuff is allowed. The p2p software Soulseek was created as for trading bootlegs. See what the policy of the band/artist is and then trade.