NTSC Digital camera -> PC DVD question - Please Help!

McGintyMcGoo

Help me please! I have a gig recorded onto MiniDV tapes using a Sony NTSC digital camera. When the camera is connected up to my TV, the footage displays correctly in colour. However, when I connect the same cables up to my fairly old DVD standalone recorder, the footage will only record in b/w. Is this because of the NTSC standard?

I have also tried to capture the footage onto my PC using a firewire card, but it keeps on bombing after a few seconds and does not capture any footage. However, I have (and still can) successfully captured footage from a Sony PAL digital camcorder onto my PC using the same setup. The problem is that this PAL camcorder only takes Digital8 tapes. Is this problem also NTSC related?

Any suggestions as to how I can capture the footage in colour, or any pointers as to what I am doing wrong. I have to turn this footage into a DVD within the next two weeks!

Cheers

lodgepole

Can your television display an NTSC signal? I'm fairly sure that Maplin have a handy little doodad that will adjust an NTSC signal into a PAL signal without any frame drops or colour problems.

Have you set your editing software to NTSC? There should be no problem importing the footage. Did you record using an NTSC camera and NTSC tapes? I'm not aware of the physical difference between NTSC and PAL tapes but if there is one and you used PAL there could be a problem.

McGintyMcGoo

"Can your television display an NTSC signal?"
I'll have to check when I get home but I think that thats the case.

The camera is definitely an NTSC camera, but it is the only MiniDV camera that I can get my hands on at the moment. The tapes were given to me so I do not know what format the camera was that recorded onto them. I am also not aware of any difference between the tapes. i.e. I assume that the same tapes can be used in both format cameras.

The software that I used to capture the data was the latest trial versions of some of the ULead products (DVD Workshop etc.). There were no preferences set at installation so I assume that the software should accomodate both PAL and NTSC. I am going to download a trial of Adobe Premiere today so see if that is any different.

I'll give Maplin a call, but if you have any other ideas .......?

McGintyMcGoo

UPDATE: Just checked with Maplin Electronics in Blanchardstown and they a gadget that converts the signal from NTSC to PAL, but it costs €82.49 plus you have to but another cable, so thats a non-starter!

lodgepole

Originally posted by McGintyMcGoo
The software that I used to capture the data was the latest trial versions of some of the ULead products (DVD Workshop etc.). There were no preferences set at installation so I assume that the software should accomodate both PAL and NTSC. I am going to download a trial of Adobe Premiere today so see if that is any different.

You definitely have to tell it what you're importing. Premiere, AVID and Pinnacle all have adjustable settings. I've never used the Ulead software but from what i've heard it's fairly basic so it's possible it doesn't offer that function.

I thought that Maplin thing was cheaper than that, it's a shame since it's quite a handy piece of kit.

leonotron

As far as I know when you play it back on your TV it is just pseudo pal and it is not converted properly. I know a production place that could convert it to pal dv tapes for you for you and they are not too expensive, pm me if you want a number so you can contact them

tea

Originally posted by McGintyMcGoo
UPDATE: Just checked with Maplin Electronics in Blanchardstown and they a gadget that converts the signal from NTSC to PAL, but it costs €82.49 plus you have to but another cable, so thats a non-starter!

I suspect that a device that cheap will probably only convert the colour information to PAL. If so, this will not help at all, I'm afraid.

From what you've described, here's a few pointers (sorry if anything here is *really* obvious!):

1. Your standalone DVD recorder may be either PAL only or need to be switched to NTSC input mode. THis would explain the B&W problem

2. If its a DV camera, and using firewire, the input format should be more or less irrelevant to the capture, as the camera is just dumping a data stream into the capure program.

Suggestions:

a. Check your DVD recorder for an NTSC input setting

b. Try a different capure program to get your DV files into the computer - I think your problem is related to the camera not playing nicely with your computer rathert than any particular NTSC problem. Try the support center for the camera, firewire card etc.

Best of luck

leonotron

Originally posted by tea
I suspect that a device that cheap will probably only convert the colour information to PAL. If so, this will not help at all, I'm afraid.

From what you've described, here's a few pointers (sorry if anything here is *really* obvious!):

1. Your standalone DVD recorder may be either PAL only or need to be switched to NTSC input mode. THis would explain the B&W problem

2. If its a DV camera, and using firewire, the input format should be more or less irrelevant to the capture, as the camera is just dumping a data stream into the capure program.

Suggestions:

a. Check your DVD recorder for an NTSC input setting

b. Try a different capure program to get your DV files into the computer - I think your problem is related to the camera not playing nicely with your computer rathert than any particular NTSC problem. Try the support center for the camera, firewire card etc.

Best of luck

In regards to you second point, when you start a new project in Avid or Premiere you need to select whether it's a Pal or NTSC project. The input will not be irrelevant, the camera will still output, through firewire, 30 frames if it's NTSC and 25 if it's Pal

tea

Originally posted by leonotron
The input will not be irrelevant, the camera will still output, through firewire, 30 frames if it's NTSC and 25 if it's Pal

Absolutely, but its still just data formatted in one of two ways, isn't it? If the data doesn't start to transfer (or gives up after a few seconds), I'm not inclined to think that how the data itself is formatted is the problem.

lodgepole

Originally posted by tea
Absolutely, but its still just data formatted in one of two ways, isn't it? If the data doesn't start to transfer (or gives up after a few seconds), I'm not inclined to think that how the data itself is formatted is the problem.

But the software that's pulling the data in does so in real time, and so should therefore be given a reference as to how many frames it should be accepting each second.

Mutant_Fruit

Set your program to capture in NTSC mode. Most programs offer both PAL and NTSC as capture modes, so just choose NTSC.

When its captured, just save it as a PAL file when you're done editing.

If you have problems, i think Virtualdubmod can capture, so try that.

DMT

Originally posted by Mutant_Fruit
When its captured, just save it as a PAL file when you're done editing.

If you do that you will end with jerky movements.

I'm not too familiar with DV, so there may be a few extra steps needed, but to convert an NTSC DVD to a PAL DVD you have to do a 3:2 pulldown (inverse telecine) to convert the frame rate from 29.97 to 23.975 and then change the framerate to 25fps.

As this speeds up the video, you'll have to either speed up the audio by 4% or "time stretch" it by -4%. This is how all movies are done when being converted from 24fps to 25fps.

You can also throw in a deinterlace filter set to "blend" and you have to stretch the picture vertically to PAL standard, for instance from 720x480 to 720x576

There's a good few websites/message boards dealing with DV NTSC to PAL that can be googled...

pickarooney

You can capture via Firewire in NTSC (tick that standard in whatever software you're using) then convert the file to PAL with AnyVideoConvertor.
It's pretty good, I've not noticed any jerkiness or colour loss using it.
You can then import the PAL AVI into your authoring program and make the DVD.

Apple_A_Day

Are DVD's not standard independant, ie. neither PAL nor NTSC.

Have an Apple!!

lodgepole

Originally posted by Apple_A_Day
Are DVD's not standard independant, ie. neither PAL nor NTSC.

Not at all. The video data has to be either NTSC or PAL so that the signal is compatible with whatever television the film is being viewed on. European TVs are gererally better for being cross compatible across NTSC and PAL (and PALs various formats), American TVs tend to only accept NTSC signals.

Lump

Originally posted by DMT
If you do that you will end with jerky movements.

I'm not too familiar with DV, so there may be a few extra steps needed, but to convert an NTSC DVD to a PAL DVD you have to do a 3:2 pulldown (inverse telecine) to convert the frame rate from 29.97 to 23.975 and then change the framerate to 25fps.

As this speeds up the video, you'll have to either speed up the audio by 4% or "time stretch" it by -4%. This is how all movies are done when being converted from 24fps to 25fps.

You can also throw in a deinterlace filter set to "blend" and you have to stretch the picture vertically to PAL standard, for instance from 720x480 to 720x576

There's a good few websites/message boards dealing with DV NTSC to PAL that can be googled...

Yea true, but then you have to do the same to the sound to keep it in sync, The difference between NTSC and Pal Apple_A_Day is the frame rate and frame size, on dvd's it's the same.

John

Apple_A_Day

But the computer wouldn't know the difference between NTSC and PAL would it.

Doesn't that only come into effect when being encoded to composite for the TV. The only difference being that a "PAL" DVD player would give a 60Hz PAL signal on it's composite output.

Just a thought !

Have an Apple !!

DMT

Originally posted by Lump
Yea true, but then you have to do the same to the sound to keep it in sync,

Did you not read the part about time stretching the audio?

Lump

AHAHAHAH, ooppps, I must have been tired/asleep when I posted.


Never mind me


John