"Magnificent" Man U - you're having a laugh!

Dub13

I remember how some of you on here were heaping praise on Man United earlier in the season. Some even said that they were better than Arsenal, despite the league table clearly suggesting otherwise...
Anyway, whilst we won't finish that close to them this season, and whilst Man United is still a better side than Liverpool, I assert that Man United are not as good as some of you suggest:

-Knocked out of Europe by Porto, hardly AC Milan or Real Madrid!
-Lost 4-1 at rivals Manchester City!
-Have lost EIGHT times in the league this season (we've lost ten, but eight for a club like Man U!)
-Lost 1-0 at Portsmouth, deservedly (Like Liverpool)

This is just some evidence to suggest that United really aren't as good as some of you think!

Pacifico

Originally posted by Dub13
(we've lost ten, but eight for a club like Man U!)

Well it is obvious that United fans are slow to admit the fact that their team is in decline. I however have no doubt that they will be better next season. And,this season, will more than likely finish with a trophy. Something that cant be said for Liverpool

Oh and liverpool are'nt a "big" club? Your havin' a laugh!:p

zAbbo

Oh Gawd, how did you slup through the net ?

Is there any purpose to this thread other than to get ManU fans backs up?

For shame

Dub13

Purpose.....to suggest that United really aren't as good as some of you think

bizmark

They had one bad seasion my god dont jab the panic button yet and i hate to break it to ya but a bad seasion for man u would be a bloody great one for Liverpool at this point

thejollyrodger

Fergie has to go !! he is holding the side back

(singing)
bye bye fergie
its time for you to go !!!

Come on O Neill !!!!

If this was any other league in europe (apart from ireland) fergie would have been gone by now!

NightStrike

-Knocked out of Europe by Porto, hardly AC Milan or Real Madrid!
-Lost 4-1 at rivals Manchester City!
-Have lost EIGHT times in the league this season (we've lost ten, but eight for a club like Man U!)
-Lost 1-0 at Portsmouth, deservedly (Like Liverpool)

I think your argument is pointless to be honest. They're about 20 points ahead of liverpool and you seem to be pointing out liverpool or better or something? I mean what is your point? Yeah Utd had a bad season but they could still finish second or third with the same pts that won the league for them last season. Remember that Arsenal upped the bar this year too and while Utd haven't been totally convincing they have the same points total as last season.

Yeah they were knocked out by Porto, who as you pointed out are no AC milan or Real Madrid. But em those two clubs are out of the CL and Porto aren't and Porto look on course for the final so

I wouldn't mind the Man City match in the same way i wouldn't mind Spurs v Arsenal or Everton v Liverpool because form goes out the window in derby matches.

Ok eight losses in the league is too much for a club like utd but even Ferguson will admit they've not had the best of seasons.

And the Portsmouth defeat is understandable to be honest. Loads of results like that occur near the end of the season because they're fighting for survival while Utd have nothing/very little to play for.

Dub13

I am not trying to point out liverpool or better or something?,Liverpool have there own problems and they are vast and I say that as a Liverpool fan.The point I AM making is Man You are not the team they once were and the Utd fans cant see this.

TwoShedsJackson

The Soccer forum was closed and re-opened with access rights to stop these sort of moronic threads. Now bugger off.

NightStrike

Originally posted by Dub13
I am not trying to point out liverpool or better or something?,Liverpool have there own problems and they are vast and I say that as a Liverpool fan.The point I AM making is Man You are not the team they once were and the Utd fans cant see this.

Maybe/maybe not. I don't think a team can be judged to be in decline because of one season. I'm not a Utd fan but I won't be writing them off as in decline until this stage next year if they're not there or there abouts which I'd expect them to be.

crowl

just out of interest how many ppl said arsenal were a 'team in decline' when they did worse last season than manyoo are doing this season?

Dub13

Listen TwoShedsJackson...I am not trying to just lash Utd,I am trying to get a discussion going about a Utd team I think (right or wrong thats what the discussion is about) are stuck in a hole and they may move forward or go in to a slump like Liverpool did.So if you can not talk open about this in the soccer section without attacking people you are the one who should bugger off.

smemon

1. we were knocked out by a good side, uefa cup winners last year and may i add to a last minute goal. (at least we were in the champions league)

2. 4-1 to city, it's football, flattered themselves with the score but it's rare they beat us.

3. lost 8 in the league- with liverpool losing 10 dont think your point makes sense.

pool have lost to chelsea, charlton (twice), arsenal (twice) , portsmouth, Man Utd, southampton (twice!) and spurs. looking at that they've lost 4 of 6 games against the top 3. its suggests they cant match the top 3.

utd have a better squad, manager, stadium, league status, cup status and champions league status than liverpool. if your looking to have a go at a team 'in decline' look no further than your own.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Originally posted by NightStrike
Ok eight losses in the league is too much for a club like utd but even Ferguson will admit they've not had the best of seasons.

Fergusson also admitted that if Liverpool had not had the injuries that they had, they would be Higher in the league than they were. Goes to show what he knows

Sheds, Dub13, be civil or you two will be the first out of the new improved soccer.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by NightStrike
Loads of results like that occur near the end of the season because they're fighting for survival while Utd have nothing/very little to play for.

Nothing more than CL qualification that is...

Dub13

Look this is not a Liverpool/Man You thing.....as I said at the start "Man United is still a better side than Liverpool," ok so lets get that clear.so lets not go down the line of LFC win this and Utd won this etc etc.

The point of this post is Man Utd (NOTHING TO DO WITH LIVERPOOL) are not the team they were.We no the Man Utd fans are hurting after yesterday but again this is not a Liverpool/Man You thing,maybe I should not have compared Utds record to Liverpool this season at the start.

eirebhoy

If you look at last season's table you will find that utd were on around the same points at this stage of last season and the same can be said about pool so I don't see the point you are making. They are also in the final of the FA cup. Considering Keane is not the player he was and only plays the odd match, Ferdinand was suspended for half the season and Scholes and Solskjaer were injured for a few months it can probably be classed as a better season than last. BTW they also haven't got Beckham this season but I'll leave that up to you to class it as a good or bad thing.

Jivin Turkey

Originally posted by eirebhoy
If you look at last season's table you will find that utd were on around the same points at this stage of last season and the same can be said about pool so I don't see the point you are making. They are also in the final of the FA cup. Considering Keane is not the player he was and only plays the odd match, Ferdinand was suspended for half the season and Scholes and Solskjaer were injured for a few months it can probably be classed as a better season than last. BTW they also haven't got Beckham this season but I'll leave that up to you to class it as a good or bad thing.

The point he is making has NOTHING to do with Liverpool.

He is saying Chelsea and Arsenal have upped the bar and United have failed to do the same, hence he sees them as in decline as they are miles off getting close to the championship.

To say "it can probably be classed as a better season than last" is ridiculous considereing they won the league last year, and this year they could stil finish third and trophyless.

PHB

What team are the team they were?

Real Madrid are losing the league and got knocked out of the champions league.
Are they in decline?

AC Milan got beat having a 4-1 lead in the Champions League.
Are they in decline?

Arsenal lost in Man U in the FA Cup and got beat by Chelsea in the Champs League. Are they in decline?

Think about stuff ya say first

---

Lets give ya a hypotecical situation.

You're the richest club in the world.

You just got beat bad by a very very very very very strong rival.
You have another strong rival to compete againist.

The reason you lost this season is not because you couldn't beat Arsenal or Chelsea, its because you lost to people like Portsmouth.

What do you do? Being the richest club in the world?

You buy players to increase your squad depth (which is already the strongest in the league in my opinion cept Chelsea obviously )

You are also forced to buy a rock solid central defender who is experienced since Ferdinand isn't back for an extra month.

You're offense isn't great and Giggs and Keane are getting older.

Strong right winger needs to be bought so Ronaldo can go over to the left like he should, somebody like Ronaldinhno.

You also maybe need a strong striker to play alongside Van Nist.

So what do you do?
With all this money?
A very strong squad that just needs a bit of help?
I wonder :rolleyes:


---

Also if you look at before Ferdinand got banned Man United were having their best season ever(if im not mistaken)

Once he was banned Man U started leaking goal after goal.
They didn't have a bad season, they had a bad second half.

Arsenal on the other hand didn't get a serious injury for any important player and had an absolutely amazing season.

Its nowhere near as bad as you think mate, just a ****ty season.

talla

As Thanks for the fish said, keep it civil. Keeping a very close eye on this thread

phenom

United haven't really a bad season.If they were they would be middle table with no Champions League to look forward to next season. Just because they are not on top of the table and in the semi's of the Champions league. That doesn't suggest that they are having a bad season it suggest that Arsenal are having a better season.


You said that Man Utd were beat by there Rivals but you are forgetting that Man utd beat them 3-1 earlier on in the season.

As for them not as good as they were. They are still have been contenders for the Premiership title in the past few years unlike some other team.

On a more light hearted note here is something taking from the Humour forum dedicated to Dub 13:)

A bloke goes into the John Lennon Airport and manages to eventually get into the departure lounge where his flight home is being called. All around him there are overturned tables, smashed windows, computer terminals broken, upturned chairs and crowd control barriers lying on the floor.
"Christ, what's happened here?" he asks one of the ground crew.
"Oh yeah...", he replies "Absolutely hopeless ..... we had the Liverpool players in here this morning filming the new Nike ad".

smemon

lol! thats a good 1 phenom.

Big Ears

I dont beleive man utd are any worse than other seasons' . I just beleive other teams are finally catching up and that the premier league is not the ( 2 horse race at best , often one ) same as it used to be .

Arsenal are a very good team now
Chelsea arent bad and can only improve
Newcastle have lots of Quality young players who will do very well i n years to come
And Liverpool have Gerard Houlier , so they can only improve once he's gone .( I mean if they finnish 4th / 5th with houlier managing think what they could do with a better manager .

Jivin Turkey

Originally posted by phenom
United haven't really a bad season.If they were they would be middle table with no Champions League to look forward to next season. Just because they are not on top of the table and in the semi's of the Champions league. That doesn't suggest that they are having a bad season it suggest that Arsenal are having a better season.


You said that Man Utd were beat by there Rivals but you are forgetting that Man utd beat them 3-1 earlier on in the season.

Ok this is not a United Vs Liverpool thread, and besides, they only beat them 2-1 at anfield, and were lucky to win considering the incredible misses that liverpool had at the death.

I also think that if you said to alex ferguson at the beginning of the season that they would finish 3rd (I know its not a certainty yet but a distinct possibility), 17 points behind arsenal (if they win thir game in hand), and would not make the quarters of the CL, I think he would consider it a bad season.

JippoKelly

When compared to their pre-season expectations, both teams have had bad seasons. Enough said.

Emboss

Originally posted by Dub13
I remember how some of you on here were heaping praise on Man United earlier in the season. Some even said that they were better than Arsenal, despite the league table clearly suggesting otherwise...
Anyway, whilst we won't finish that close to them this season, and whilst Man United is still a better side than Liverpool, I assert that Man United are not as good as some of you suggest:

-Knocked out of Europe by Porto, hardly AC Milan or Real Madrid!
-Lost 4-1 at rivals Manchester City!
-Have lost EIGHT times in the league this season (we've lost ten, but eight for a club like Man U!)
-Lost 1-0 at Portsmouth, deservedly (Like Liverpool)

This is just some evidence to suggest that United really aren't as good as some of you think!

did you come to this conclusion all on your own?

Jivin Turkey

Originally posted by JippoKelly
When compared to their pre-season expectations, both teams have had bad seasons. Enough said.

I agree, no one is doubting that it has been another poor season from liverpool.

phenom

Ok this is not a United Vs Liverpool thread, and besides, they only beat them 2-1 at anfield, and were lucky to win considering the incredible misses that liverpool had at the death.

sorry put apart from the joke where in my post did I mention Liverpool

Jivin Turkey

Originally posted by phenom
United haven't really a bad season.If they were they would be middle table with no Champions League to look forward to next season. Just because they are not on top of the table and in the semi's of the Champions league. That doesn't suggest that they are having a bad season it suggest that Arsenal are having a better season.


You said that Man Utd were beat by there Rivals but you are forgetting that Man utd beat them 3-1 earlier on in the season. OK YOU MENTIONED THEM HERE.

As for them not as good as they were. They are still have been contenders for the Premiership title in the past few years unlike some other team. HERE

On a more light hearted note here is something taking from the Humour forum dedicated to Dub 13:)

A bloke goes into the John Lennon Airport and manages to eventually get into the departure lounge where his flight home is being called. All around him there are overturned tables, smashed windows, computer terminals broken, upturned chairs and crowd control barriers lying on the floor.
"Christ, what's happened here?" he asks one of the ground crew.
"Oh yeah...", he replies "Absolutely hopeless ..... we had the Liverpool players in here this morning filming the new Nike ad". AND HERE

3 times, but apart from that you didnt mention liverpool.

Dub13

LOL @ phenom...thats a good one.

The point I am making is UTD are off the pace and have there work cut out to match/overtake Arsenal,Chelsea.And the one thing that comes across from talking to Utd fans is that they can not see this...open your eyes,now in saying that Liverpool are much much worse off but thats another days work.

As for Utd they may well bounce back next season and do very well,but they could also get stuck in a rut...I am not sure if Sir Moan has the energy to take them through.But this is just my opinion

PHB

Seriously though,
Have Chelsea lived up to their expectations pre-season?

They didn't make a serious chalange for the title this year tbh, nobody ever really thought they could win it, just a fools hope.
With all the depth of the squad they can't cope without Duff

Have Arsenal?
Champions League?
Seem to be bottling the big matches

Man United?
Champs league? Hello!
Premiership second half!?

No English team has done great this year, Arsenal have just made up for it with an absolutely amazing premiership run.

Liverpool, Houiller, nuff said

How did Man United do last season?
How did Arsenal do? Were they in decline? No don't be silly.
Both teams now are good enough for it to be unpredicatble thats all

Jivin Turkey

Originally posted by PHB
Seriously though,
Have Chelsea lived up to their expectations pre-season?

They didn't make a serious chalange for the title this year tbh, nobody ever really thought they could win it, just a fools hope.
With all the depth of the squad they can't cope without Duff

Have Arsenal?
Champions League?
Seem to be bottling the big matches

Man United?
Champs league? Hello!
Premiership second half!?

No English team has done great this year, Arsenal have just made up for it with an absolutely amazing premiership run.

Liverpool, Houiller, nuff said

How did Man United do last season?
How did Arsenal do? Were they in decline? No don't be silly.
Both teams now are good enough for it to be unpredicatble thats all

Well Chelsea are still in the last 4 of the CL and should come second in the league, it only seems that they havnt maintained a decent challenge because arsenal didnt really choke like everyone said they did.

Arsenal were eliminated in the quarters of the CL by Chelsea, which was the worst possible draw for them, and are on course to go through the season unbeaten.

Not too bad by either of them.

PHB

Yeah I know, thats exactly my point.

Man United havn't had a good season.
Last year Arsenal didn't have a good season.

ONE SEASON MEANS VERY LITTLE!!!!!

mr_angry

You'll have to forgive me for pointing out this at the end of page 2, but I don't exactly remember any "Man U are the greatest team ever" threads recently. Which ones exactly are you criticising?

If you're going back to last November / December, when Manchester United were actually matching the "greats" of Arsenal and Chelsea, there was no evidence to suggest that they weren't equally as great as Arsenal or Chelsea.

If you're trying to suggest that people are incapable of predicting the future, then yes, well done. But we didn't really need a thread in Soccer to know that, did we?

phenom

You said that Man Utd were beat by there Rivals but you are forgetting that Man utd beat them 3-1 earlier on in the season. OK YOU MENTIONED THEM HERE.NO I DIDN'T

If you look at the first post on the first page Dub13 said that United Were beat 4-1 by there rivals Man city

Lost 4-1 at rivals Manchester City!

So if you look you would see that I was saying that united beat their RIVALS city 3-1 earlier on in the season.

As for them not as good as they were. They are still have been contenders for the Premiership title in the past few years unlike some other team. HERE.NO I DIDN'T

Were in this did I say Liverpool. There was more teams that used to be contenders for the league eg.Blackburn so where in this post did I mention Liverpool?

as for the joke that I specifically said "dedicated to Dub13"
and I also said

sorry put apart from the joke where in my post did I mention Liverpool

So where in my post and APART FROM THE JOKE that was for Dub13 did I say Liverpool

Jivin Turkey

Originally posted by phenom
Were in this did I say Liverpool. There was more teams that used to be contenders for the league eg.Blackburn so where in this post did I mention Liverpool?

Apologies about the 3-1 thing, I picked that up wrong, but to say in the that you meant another team "e.g blackburn" in the other part is crap. You know it and so do I.

But thats getting off topic. You claimed United have not had a bad season, I would completely disagree. Finishing a possible third or an extremely distant second, the possibility of an fa cup, that was deemed worthless a couple of years ago, and not qualifying for the CL quarters, correct me if im wrong but I dont think they will be popping any champagne in old trafford this year.

Big Ears

With regards not being able to predict the future .
In fairness lots of people said united lacked strenght in depth before november . Its shown brown was not good enough to replace ferdinand ( maybe not his fault he was only coming back from injury ) , Gary nevilles 4 game ban , silvestres injury . Scholes will also be banned now( and it will show ) , but wont miss the FA cup .

So those that said they lacked strenght in depth were proved right .

MisterAnarchy

Man Utd have had a bad season .
They have lacked creativity,flair and width the whole season.
We are now a very predictable team .
In years gone by united built their season on results against the lower teams in the league.
This season they have lost to Middlesboro,Portsmouth,Wolves,Man City and Fulham.
All very poor teams.
United could only draw at home against Leeds,barely beat both Wolves and Leicester 1-0 in very unconvincing victories.
United used to thrash teams like the above 3 or 4 nil on a regular basis.
They look staid and unimaginative and too many players are playing poorly.
Watching them this season they are relying too often on the long ball .
Its often hard to see where goals will come from in a game.
If they buy well in the summer they will be back.

PHB

In fairness lots of people said united lacked strenght in depth before november . Its shown brown was not good enough to replace ferdinand ( maybe not his fault he was only coming back from injury ) , Gary nevilles 4 game ban , silvestres injury .
So those that said they lacked strenght in depth were proved right .

Show me any team in the world, any at all, that would be able to cope with 3 of their top 4 defenders unable to play.

The fact that they were able to maintain a top table position with a reserve team defense shows their squad depth imo.

NightStrike

To be fair have any of the top teams achieved what they would have liked this season?

Even Arsenal for example. Ok they won the league but they got knocked out of the Champions League and FA Cup when they'll never have a better chance to win both competitions so in that sense you could even say Arsenal had a disappointing season.

elbow316

Even Arsenal for example. Ok they won the league but they got knocked out of the Champions League and FA Cup when they'll never have a better chance to win both competitions so in that sense you could even say Arsenal had a disappointing season.

Sure, it was terrible to see the treble cut down to 1 in the space of a few days but in all fairness, we won the main trophy, the one we were aiming for at the start of the season. Also, with the relatively young age of the squad and the potential of the outstanding young players coming through from the youth set-up atm, I'm sure that Arsenal are going to have quite a few very good opportunities to take home the Champions League. Off-topic but I just had to reply


On the subject of Man U, they are only 3 or 4 quality players short of being up there again. However, one of those players that needs to be replaced, if not this summer, then next, is Roy Keane. So it means having to look for a quality player who also has leadership qualities and can fit into the club quickly - easier said than done.

cournioni

We were supposed to be in "decline" last year and look what happened...

Mighty_Mouse

seems to be an awful lot of Liverpool and Manchester United players in this thread.

"we won this" "We lost that" "next year we play better"..................

Just an observation;)

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by JippoKelly
When compared to their pre-season expectations, both teams have had bad seasons. Enough said.

Exactly, both have had poor season with Liverpool fairing particularly worse!

However, an interesting point earlier regarding United's performance before Ferdinand's ban. It just shows you how influencial one player can be and the risk of depending on one player in such a key position. Combined with Ruud's dip in form and recent injury, United seem to be average at best.

It makes you wonder what Arsenal would be like without a certain someone.

Ferguson is going to have to make some hard decisions in the close season and drop a few and add a few others. The squad troubles thats United are having at the moment is a disgrace. Why? They are the richest club in the world, they should have quality throughout the squad!

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by PORNAPSTER
We were supposed to be in "decline" last year and look what happened...

Its been said before and it really needs to be drilled into ye all!!

UNITED DID NOT WIN THE LEAGUE LAST SEASON, ARSENAL LOST IT!!!!!! If you honestly believe United were more deserving of the title or a better team than Arsenal, you do not have a clue about football.


I am a Liverpool supported. Delighted by the win, but we didn't deserve it and United are a better team. I can admit that!


See if you can admit something!

cournioni

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
seems to be an awful lot of Liverpool and Manchester United players in this thread.

"we won this" "We lost that" "next year we play better"..................

Just an observation;)

It's alright if you're a member...

cournioni

Originally posted by jesus_thats_gre
Its been said before and it really needs to be drilled into ye all!!

UNITED DID NOT WIN THE LEAGUE LAST SEASON, ARSENAL LOST IT!!!!!! If you honestly believe United were more deserving of the title or a better team than Arsenal, you do not have a clue about football.

That must mean that United were the better team before Christmas, and then we "lost it". After all we were on top of the league before the Wolves games.

Just because Arsenal peaked at the wrong time last season does not mean that they are a better team than United. Arsenal may have lost vital games in the run in but you cannot say that they lost the league because of that. You have to remember United pulled off 13 or so wins on the trot to beat Arsenal. Now you cannot say that isn't impressive.

Newcastle were 12 points ahead of United at one stage in the 95/96 season and United beat them to it. Does that mean that Newcastle were a better team? I don't think so anyhow.

Maybe you are being misguided by Arsenals attacking flair rather than United's more tactical approach to the game.

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by PORNAPSTER
Maybe you are being misguided by Arsenals attacking flair rather than United's more tactical approach to the game.

Finally a United supporter that appreciates tactics over attacking flair. Does that mean you think Liverpool deserved to finish ahead of United just under two years ago with their defensive tactics?

United's tactics had nothing to do with winning the league. Arsenal simply through it away and United put together a decent run. Arsenal buckled under the pressure and United were able to take advantage. Gladly, Arsenal did not do the same this season.

cournioni

No one throws away the league without deserving to do so. United won every game after Christmas knowing that Arsenal would buckle under pressure (not being good enough). It isn't the first time United have done this... They do it year after year. This year though through Rio's suspension and a number of other things, we buckled. We threw away our lead at the top. I accept that.

Yes, Liverpool deserved to win second place in 2001 because wherever you finish in the table, you deserve to finish there. You are there on merit, there is no such thing as getting lucky. You make your own luck.

That is what I am saying in Arsenal's case. Arsenal did not throw it away, they just were not good enough. They played United at home last year knowing that a win would help them to see off United. They didn't win, they drew... Are you saying that Arsenal just didn't bother for that match? Part of the game is the ability to handle the pressure, in lots of ways it decides whether you are good enough or not.

There are plenty of players in the world that are technically gifted enough to play for the top clubs, but if they cannot handle the pressure. Then they are simply not good enough.

Sposs

I'll start to worry if Utd fail to finish top 3 and dont win a trophy in the next 2 - 3 years,Other than that this season has been a small blip,one point behind chelsea in second and no dis-respect to millwall fans but the FA cup in the Bag.

Hardly the form of a Team In decline.

Dub13

a bit off topic but well......


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