islam and holy war?

spanner

the way things are going in the world today i can see islam on a collision course with western europe, as much as most of the people who cause these horrific bomb attacks are in the minorty it still doesnt take away from the fact that with each bomb attack the west grows to distrust and hate the west and with each reprisial on the islamic world the islamic people grow to hate the west even more.

maybe you might think this is over exggration but i can see the next world war to occur between the western world and the islamic world

mr_angry

I'm of the opinion that there will never be another World War, because of the state of current technology. Armies now have the power to wipe each other out in the blink of an eye if it really comes to that, and I think the idea of having infantry in trenches is a tactic long confined to the last century. If there ever is another World War, it will be quick and spectacular.

Besides, I think at least SOME lessons have been learned from the previous two. However, I do take your point that there is an obviously deepening divide between East and West. Its nothing new for the East - they've lived under worse empires for the past hundreds of years (forgive my flippancy in this remark - I'm not excusing it), but the ability for small numbers of militants to do severe damage is something very new to the West.

Its the opinions of the moderate Muslims that really dictates national-level priorities, and the vast majority are peaceful, and not the war-mongers that some of the media would have us believe.

tricky D

It's happened before and it's happening again. Remember the Crusades, then the rise of the Ottoman Empire. Empires come and go. Now it seems to be swinging back against Islam. There is a push for the implementation of 'western-style liberal democracies' in Islamic states or for friendly despots, a skew/bias on the perceptions of the conflicts and their causes with a deafening degree of propaganda/information warfare. One thing which may prevent a 'conventional world war' is that with the large scale emigration and the resulting mixing of cultures within nation states has blurred the borders of conflict, which partly explains and contributes to the al-Qaida MO.

my coupla cents
\r

Sleipnir

I'm of the opinion that there will never be another World War

That's exactly what they said after the 1st one.
Two opposing armies so powerful that it wouldn't sense to start a war as nobody would win.

At the time the armies had state-of-the-art technology (for the time)
What's state-of-the-art now won't be in 100 years.

neokenzo

I think it is unfair that to claim Islam is going to war with the rest of the world as much as you can say because of the IRA, all Catholics are at war in Northern Ireland. All this is Al-Qaeda doing. They however do not represent the whole Islam community in the world.
I agree with mr_angry. The vast majority of muslims are peaceful, just the same as the vast majority of catholics are. This whole thing was blown way out of perportion by the media.

Redleslie

Of course there'll be another world war. That's what humans do, fight wars and have revolutions. But I'm inclined to think that the next big war will be fought along class lines rather than religion.

bonkey

Originally posted by spanner
maybe you might think this is over exggration but i can see the next world war to occur between the western world and the islamic world

You and John-Rhys Davies would get on like a house on fire.....

If what you say is correct, then ti will be as much due to the west succumbing once again to a stereotyping habit that I thought we had started to grow out of.

Firstly, there is a lot of Islam in the Western world. The two are not entirely seperate.

Secondly, the "Islamic World" - in as much as it exists - is, as already pointed out, mostly populated with moderates who would love nothing better than to have the same peace in the world that you or I would want.

jc

spanner

Originally posted by bonkey
You and John-Rhys Davies would get on like a house on fire.....



Firstly, there is a lot of Islam in the Western world. The two are not entirely seperate.

Secondly, the "Islamic World" - in as much as it exists - is, as already pointed out, mostly populated with moderates who would love nothing better than to have the same peace in the world that you or I would want.

jc

i understand your point the east has merged with the west and the west with the east however this will not stop them attacking each other in fact it will just make it worse. there is the majority of peaceful people on both sides but these people rarely seem to decide if war will happen or not, it is usually the few powerful people like the osama bin ladens and the george bushes of this world

Raskolnikov

Originally posted by bonkey

Secondly, the "Islamic World" - in as much as it exists - is, as already pointed out, mostly populated with moderates who would love nothing better than to have the same peace in the world that you or I would want.

jc

Moderates who seem to be easily influenced into flying planes into buildings with the intent of killing as many civilians as possible. Don't forget, many of the 9/11 hijackers were from affluent and middle-class backgrounds.

If these young, European educated people could be presuaded into flying planes into buildings, I imagine it's equally possible for the vast working classes in Islam countries to be swayed over to anti-Western feelings at very least.

Patrick Bateman

Islam is not on a collision course with western Europe.

halkar

There was a theory about jugment day is to be a big war between Muslims and Christians and Muslims win It was just a theory.

I don't think it is anything got to the with Islam or Christianity but if money hungry west doesn't keep their noses out of their bussiness, it can create few sparks. I don't see any other country attacking US for their resources or whatever they might have. As much as west sees them as un-democratic, they see the west same. They don't like our life style and we don't like theirs but we both should respect that.

sanvean

Originally posted by Raskolnikov
Moderates who seem to be easily influenced into flying planes into buildings with the intent of killing as many civilians as possible. Don't forget, many of the 9/11 hijackers were from affluent and middle-class backgrounds.

Surely, if these people were flying planes into buildings killing thousands of innocent people, they weren't moderates, despite having (gasp) a middle class educated background.

If these young, European educated people could be presuaded into flying planes into buildings, I imagine it's equally possible for the vast working classes in Islam countries to be swayed over to anti-Western feelings at very least.

in much the same way that it's easy to persuade people in the west to hold anti-semitic or anti-muslim views.

Sand

maybe you might think this is over exggration but i can see the next world war to occur between the western world and the islamic world

Im of the opinion that there is already a world war going on, just no one has seen fit to stick big letters on it and stick a number after it as weve been conditioned to view the next world war as being between two opposing power blocs, quickly devolving into a terminal nuclear exchange.

Look at it from the point of view of the Islamic fundamentalists - theyre fighting a war in theatres stretching from Chechnya, to Afghanistan to Europe and even the US to parts of the Phillipines and Indonesia. As far as theyre concerned their fighting a jihad on a global scale against a multitude of enemies. Their enemies ( Russia in Chechnya, NATO in Afghanistan, the Coalition in Iraq so on and so forth ) mightnt see it like that because they dont view themselves as being on the same side - think how politically incorrect it would be to define your side as being the people fighting Islamic fundamentalists. Crusaders and all that.

If that sounds crazy remember the Second World War didnt start when the Germans crossed into Poland - the conflict had already been raging between Japan and China for years, Europe was simply a new theatre of it, as the Pacific became later when the US entered the war even later than the Europeans. Back then, the Sino- Japanese war might have only been seen as a regional conflict rather than the beginning of a global conflict.

This world war could end up being possibly the most destructive - as someone said 100 years from now whats cutting edge will be decrepit, but nuclear bombs will probably still be good enough to take out a city and fantastically easy to create by todays standards. All you need are psychos willing to use them - step up Al Queda.

Frank Grimes

Originally posted by Raskolnikov
Moderates who seem to be easily influenced into flying planes into buildings with the intent of killing as many civilians as possible. Don't forget, many of the 9/11 hijackers were from affluent and middle-class backgrounds.

That would make them extremists then wouldn't it?
People aren't born extremists (in any sort of belief), it's something they develop into.

Redleslie

Originally posted by Sand
Im of the opinion that there is already a world war going on, just no one has seen fit to stick big letters on it and stick a number after it

Actually, some people have.

As a world system, neoliberalism is a new war for the conquest of territory. The ending of the third world war - meaning the cold war - in no sense means that the world has gone beyond the bipolar and found stability under the domination of a single victor. Because, while there was certainly a defeat (of the socialist camp), it is hard to say who won. The United States? The European Union? Japan? All three?

The defeat of the "evil empire" has opened up new markets, and the struggle over them is leading to a new world war - the fourth.

bonkey

Originally posted by Raskolnikov
Moderates who seem to be easily influenced into flying planes into buildings with the intent of killing as many civilians as possible.

No, they were the extremists.

Don't forget, many of the 9/11 hijackers were from affluent and middle-class backgrounds.

Your point? What has that got to do with whether they were moderate or extremist in their religious philosophy?

If these young, European educated people could be presuaded into flying planes into buildings, I imagine it's equally possible for the vast working classes in Islam countries to be swayed over to anti-Western feelings at very least.

Well gosh....some people here are giving a preety good example that its definitely not impossible for the vast working classes of Western countries to be swayed over to anti-Islam feelings, so I'm not going to argue that point.

They are convincing themselves that its right to hate the other side, because the other side already hates them. And once they - on either side - believe that, they then go and try and convince others to believe in it too.

Bit like what we're seeing here

jc