UTV don't want my custom

9lives

Is it unreasonable of me to expect some semblance of customer service from UTV?

I rang them last week to enquire about getting Clicksilver broadband. I explained that I had an ISDN line that I needed for work purposes and that I'd like to keep it in addition to my broadband. The rep told me that I'd need another line for broadband. I told him that I had two lines at the moment, and he simply repeated that broadband goes on a seperate line.

So call me slow, but I was telling him that right now I had two phone numbers and does that not mean that I possibly had two lines and could seperate broadband/ISDN that way. So he says that I need another line. Exasperate I said, 'I need a third line?' and he said 'yes'.

Now fine, he's probably right, but he got a kick out of making me feel like a fool on the phone because I didn't understand telecomms like he does.

Then I mentioned my Eircom Phonewatch system and he told me that Eircom would have to send an engineer out to split the signal. So I said 'UTV probably doesn't suit me very much', and he said 'no'.

He had no interest in selling me the product.

So I call Eircom Phonewatch today and the lady told me that no engineer was needed to split the signal. She said that after the broadband is installed, we call Eircom PW and they test the system from their end. This flies in the face of everything I believed, but she's the pro.

So I call UTV again and the rep at the end tells me this time that Eircom and UTV are two seperate companies who deal in different services (really???) and that if the broadband didn't work with the alarm system, I'd be stuck with my 12 month contract and there was nothing UTV could do about it.

So I said 'It sounds like I'd be better off getting my service from Eircom' and he replied 'yes, I think so'.

Does this sound like the type of customer service that would inspire confidence? It's almost like I'm bothering these guys by phoning their sales department. Unbelievable.

Regarding Eircom PW, who was telling the truth in my story above - Eircom PW or UTV?

Cheers
- 9L

Stephen

I don't know anything about eircom phonewatch, but it looks like something that could make good use of an ISDN D channel. Without knowing more about how eircom phonewatch works, I won't comment further on it.

With regard to needing another phone line, yeah you get two with your ISDN (its the same copper loop, just with 2 B (64k) channels + 1 D (16k, used for signalling etc) multiplexed onto it), but you can't downgrade one to PSTN without either dumping the other or downgrading both. AFAIK, all the Irish ISP's require you to downgrade to PSTN before they will supply adsl.

So if you need the ISDN line for work puproses the rep was right in saying that you'd need another line installed.

Gonzo

possibly eircom are right, its makes perfect sense that if you have isdn on 1 line and 56k on the other that you can get broadband bb on your other line, you dont really need a 3rd line at all unless the 56k line fails. Also the guys at UTV did you a massive favour by putting you off their service coz its rubbish and often doesnt work at all. You'll have no problems on eircom broadband except the cap which can be limiting.

Gonzo

sry i thought he meant he had his isdn (2 channels) and a seperate 56k line. In that case so the utv rep was right:)

Ripwave

Originally posted by 9lives
Is it unreasonable of me to expect some semblance of customer service from UTV?

I rang them last week to enquire about getting Clicksilver broadband. I explained that I had an ISDN line that I needed for work purposes and that I'd like to keep it in addition to my broadband. The rep told me that I'd need another line for broadband. I told him that I had two lines at the moment, and he simply repeated that broadband goes on a seperate line.

So call me slow, but I was telling him that right now I had two phone numbers and does that not mean that I possibly had two lines and could seperate broadband/ISDN that way. So he says that I need another line. Exasperate I said, 'I need a third line?' and he said 'yes'.

ISDN gives you two "channels" on a single circuit. Even though it's exactly the same piece of wire that normally carries a single analog phone circuit, eircom charge you twice as much for it when it's converted to ISDN, because you've now got two phone numbers. (Not two "lines, two numbers).

As things stand, you can't get dsl over an ISDN line (in Ireland), so if you want to get DSL you have two choices - downgrade the line to an analog line and wait a few weeks to see if it passes for broadband, then apply for broadband and wait another few weeks while it's installed. Or you can pay eircom to install a new line, wait for it to be tested, if it passes you can apply for broadband, wait for it to be installed, and then deciide how attached you are to your old phone numbers, and if you want to keep paying for ISDN because everyone knows your old numbers.

Then I mentioned my Eircom Phonewatch system and he told me that Eircom would have to send an engineer out to split the signal. So I said 'UTV probably doesn't suit me very much', and he said 'no'.

He had no interest in selling me the product.

He was being honest with you. You're right - it's not what you expect from a salesman, but then if people complain when a salesman won't tell them what they want to hear, maybe it's not surprising that we don't see more honest salespeople.

So I call Eircom Phonewatch today and the lady told me that no engineer was needed to split the signal. She said that after the broadband is installed, we call Eircom PW and they test the system from their end. This flies in the face of everything I believed, but she's the pro.

It also flies in the face of everything eircom has been telling people up to now (search this forum for "monitored alarm"). This means that either eircom has changed their policy, or she was lying to you. It's a 50/50 call. If eircom has changed their policy on PhoneWatch alarms and Broadband, you're the first one to post about it here on boards.ie. (It is true that some people have gone ahead without the engineer install, and made sure that they did the self install in such a way that it doesn't interfere with the alarm, but they knew that they were doing something that might not work, and calling Phonewatch to have them test the system after the install certainly wasn'tpart of the plan).

So I call UTV again and the rep at the end tells me this time that Eircom and UTV are two seperate companies who deal in different services (really???) and that if the broadband didn't work with the alarm system, I'd be stuck with my 12 month contract and there was nothing UTV could do about it.

So I said 'It sounds like I'd be better off getting my service from Eircom' and he replied 'yes, I think so'.

Does this sound like the type of customer service that would inspire confidence? It's almost like I'm bothering these guys by phoning their sales department. Unbelievable.

Regarding Eircom PW, who was telling the truth in my story above - Eircom PW or UTV?

Would you rather he sold you a 12 month contract and left you to sort out any problems with PW on your own?

Da Man

It's not a policy issue, it's a technical issue. The Phonewatch system needs to be filtered like anything else that uses the phone wiring. It's quite likely Eircom Phonewatch aren't terribly clued into the workings of broadband.

Ripwave

Originally posted by Da Man
It's not a policy issue, it's a technical issue. The Phonewatch system needs to be filtered like anything else that uses the phone wiring. It's quite likely Eircom Phonewatch aren't terribly clued into the workings of broadband.

The suggestion that Phonewatch will "test the system from their end" after you do a self install would be a change of policy.

The real question is, though, what PW would do for you if they tested your alarm after you did the self install, and it didn't work .

jiffy

I sent an email to PhoneWatch prior to ordering UTV ADSL as UTV told me that there was no issue. I was told by a person extremely knowledgable in ADSL technology what the problem was and that an engineer was needed to make it work correctly. I asked if that was a problem that a Phonewatch engineer would be able to fix, to be told yes it was and to contact them when the line was upgraded to arrange for an engineer.

The line was upgraded and I got ADSL working though I didn't check the Monitored alarm. A few days later a Phonewatch engineer arrived, ran a cable from the Eircom socket upto my office where he installed a wall mounted socket that already had the DSL filters in it. Happy days, now I have no filters anywhere, for the phones or the ADSL router, it's all handled by the box installed by the phonewatch engineer, plus I got a free extension run upstairs.

That's great service and all for nothing !!!! The engineer even pointed out that Eircom would want €199 to do the same thing......

A lot of the technical (comms) staff and engineers are x Eircom and they really do understand what they are doing.

Hope this helps.

Matt

halenger

Well if you already have Phone Watch and you're intent on keeping your ISDN then just get a normal PSTN phone line and get broadband on it (check that you can get it in your area-ask neighbours etc).

Seems pretty simple to me. If Phone Watch is currently working over ISDN and you wanna keep it then get the line and order IOL Broadband.

Just speaking from my own experience I've not had any problems with IOL. Had an off day or two but only one outage of a few hours and I've had it since August. I'm happy with my service.

zoro

mind you with iol you have to put up with the daily disconnections ... for no apparant reason other than to give you a new ip.

gibo_ie

As a broadband installer for Esat/UTV and Eircom i can tell you that you definatley need the line split when using phonewatch. This is because of the frequencies that ADSL operate at "can" interfere with your alarm and set off false alarms or not even set off when activated for real.

Also as already described DSL over ISDN is not and will not be available in Ireland in the near or distant future as it is not viable. Also it was correctly stated that it is one physical "digital" line with two numbers attached. Downgrade to analog and loose a number but.....

In the very near future all operators will be offering VoIP or Voice over IP to you and me, this will give you multiple numbers on one line and single number with the ability to make and recieve a call on two handsets at the same time. Much more good stuff coming soon so watch this space.....
M

9lives

Thanks for the replies guys.

I now have a far better understand of ISDN and phonewatch! I guess UTV didn't have the wherewithall to explain how their service worked with existing services. I do think they should have a basic knowledge of related technology such as alarm systems as they all work over the same medium.

I'm frustrated at the lack of service in the sector.

I tried to go with IBB but they postponed two appointments due to bad weather. I got fed up and cancelled.

Then a month later I approached my dial-up ISP (Netsource) about getting ISDN and they insisted on trying to sell me broadband.

I mailed the rep about some concerns I had with their bb service (as discovered on this board), namely:
(a) extended lead time in getting installation complete
(b) erratic performance
(c) installation cost - I plan to move house next Spring and would have to pay again for installation
(d) reported incompatibility with Eircom Phonewatch.

I got no response.

I sent the mail again a week or two later and again I got no response. Kevin at Netsource was reading my mail as msgtag was enabled on my machine. He chose to ignore me.

So I guess it's not meant to be! We're building a house later this year so I think I'll wait until that's complete and get it in there afresh. I don't plan to give UTV, IBB or Netsource my custom.

Cheers
-9L