The scourge of SIPTU

dirty_latino

Anyone else hate SIPTU and their constant tactics of holding the government to ransom?

I want to start a picket outside the SIPTU office on a pro-siptu issue to see how many of the leaders will cross it!

Who's with me?

The Beer Baron

If it was me I'd fire everyone that threatened strikes.
Then hire fugees to do the work cheaper and work twice as many hours.
That's if I ruled the country. Anyone with James Larkin posters on their walls will be imprisoned for treason.

Poland, Bulgaria, Angola, Kozovo, Zaire, Azerbaijan- can you guys speak English? No. Oh well, no biggie- doesn't take a rocket scientist to drive a bus- just remember, when you come near Wellington Quay, try'n slow down, alright there Manuel, no arriba Wellington Quay.

Idbatterim

Its bloody rediculous how they can hold the country to ransom at the drop of a hat alright! As far as im concerned they are pretty much an essential service, maybe not on the same level as the ambulance, firebrigade and gards, but as they keep on insisting on pay increases etc. the gov. should make it a condition that they cant strike.

ArphaRima

I dont work for them. But shouldnt at least some of the blame go towards the management? The problems are that the unions are forced into a strike, because of unsuccessful negotiations or maybe none at all.

Management probably will hold all the cards because the workers know the bad press they would get for strike. But a threat must be carried out. Hence the strike.

If I was a worker tbh I'd be mega pissed off that the strike was called off. From the newspaper reports it seems like the SIPTU leadership gave in to political pressure and called it off rather than hold the ground for their members.

Wolfie

Without a union, the working man has nobody to represent him, and is at the mercy of management. When this happens, working conditions are terrible and the worker gets trodden on. The advent of trade-unions was a giant leap forward in a better life for the average person. So, no, I dont disagree with the idea of unions, or of workers constitutional rights to picket. Why would any rational person have a problem with that?

Red Alert

The catch is that an post needlessly suspended the workers - by all means a lot of strikes are a total waste of time, but it seems like the management knew that they could hold the public to ransom.

Change a work practice in an already volatile industrial relations setup and there you go. Let's not forget that the teacher's got more pay for doing work that they already did 'voluntarily'.

The Beer Baron

How does a pandemic public transport collapse help the "working man"?
That's not very socialist in my view that's pure greed and begrudgery.
I bet even a dedicated Socialist like Eomar of Rohan (from boards not middle earth) would even find himself in agreement here. There's a big difference between Jim Larkin and SIPTU.

A lot of people depend on public transport, crap as it is, it's the only way many people can get to work. These people cannot afford to drive a car, cannot afford the high cost of a car, of petrol, of tax and insurance, nor can they afford to be late for work- especially if they work for companies that don't have the bloated might of SIPTU behind them. It's a good thing they caved, the whole country is in post-Tiger cold turkey right now, why should the country suffer due to their spite? What happened to solidarity, wasn't that at the heart of socialism?

For that matter, why not concentrate on improving public transport? Jesus it's about time, Iariannroad Eireann has taken it's sweet time "getting there", their fares are astronomical, matched only by the prices of refreshments and food thereon. Bus drivers up and down the country still don't understand the concept of punctuality, of service, of personal hygiene, the buses are badly maintained, and if you travel for long periods on buses you'll notice that their toilets are always out of order- oh yeah, and as for Dublin Bus, they kill people.

Jesus H Christ, sorry CIE, but get yer fúcking act together and perhaps we might even sympathise.

Dub13

No prizes for guessing the right wing PD ......The Beer Baron

The Beer Baron

I don';t really have any wings tbh.
I fluctuate. My political compass must've been zapped my some magnetic energy field.

The right/left crap's irrelevant anyways, both sides lie, both sides are ful of crap. It's called Shamocracy, it's the leading political ideology of our times.

And did you say PD? Urrgh. They disgust much just as much as the thought of their leader naked does.

ixoy

*applauds Beer Baron* I think I can find a position for you when I assume power over this country. The general disputes of unions today are tackling very different issues than when they were created. Constantly holding the country to ransom to try and get insane promises (jobs for life? Go work in the private sector and talk to me you twats). At least with privitisation - and without a monopoly - they are all made answerable to us. I'd suggest we all send letters to our TDs but the Post ain't working....

Dub13

so lets swap a public monopoly for a private one and line the pockets of some Director in London.No thanks

ixoy

Originally posted by Dub13
so lets swap a public monopoly for a private one and line the pockets of some Director in London.No thanks

I don't want a private monopoly either. I want competition. I want companies competing against one another whereby they're forced to cut unnessecary costs (e.g.: bloated staff counts). I want a bit of choice when one service pisses me off, to go to another provider. When my taxes go out of my paycheck, I want them to fund something worthwhile which doesn't go off and stop business due to stupind fractions between management and staff.

Dub13

so you want to cut things well thats were they went wrong in the UK,safety strats to suffer look at the rail system over there.there is all ready completion car,bike,walk taxi you can put 1000 extra busses tomorrow in dublin and not one will move faster in fact they will move slower.So if you want the bus fair to be cheaper but the standard lower thats the way to do it

Guy:Incognito

i dont see why people should be allowed to strike. When you start a job you're told how much you'll be earning, if you decide after a while you dont like it, tough, you took the job in the first place, leave and get another job if you dont like it. As far as privatisation goes , its the governments company to run as they see fit, they own it . We elect them to make decisions for us so stop giving out. Bloody striking hippies. Not to mention bloody protesters grinding o'connell street to a halt on saturday, wonder who they'd go running to if Saddam had decided to invade Ireland an his troops were wandering around rapeing women and killing their husbands, suddenly it'd be all "help us get rid of saddam o great mister bush , please help us nato" anyway rant over.


Oh and by the way, theres a LOT of money floating round in the siptu coffers and the people running it are quite wealthy, imho they are not interested in helping people anymore, but in making money,it just happens to be that appearing to always help the workers is the best way to make money. now the rant is really over.......or is it.

Dub13

this is not about money for the workers....its about (number one for me) saftey,also I would like to see any money made to go back into the system and not into a company account...but most people agree you can not run public transport for profit the numbers just dont add up.

As for the workers its not that they want more money from what I have read the minster wants to take 25% of them and move them into a private company (no prob run by one of his mates) and they will have the same conditions for 1 year and after that its all up in the air so they will prob end up with less money....if I were them I would also be out

alleepally

Yeah. Unions are BAD. They called for more help in policing minimum wage - very BAD. Will we see the whingers in the ISME issuing a press release in support of this? Nah. I wrote them an email under the heading of "Idea for a Press Release". see below.



To whom it may concern

Can we expect a Press Release soon from the ISME supporting the call by the ICTU today for more help in policing the minimum wage?

In case you missed it, this is from Unison.ie

"Irish trade unions are demanding more help in policing the minimum wage. Today is International Day Against Racism, and SIPTU says employers are continuing to abuse their migrant staff. The country's biggest union says many foreign workers are not getting their legal minimum of €7 an hour because their bosses are taking too many deductions for living expenses. SIPTU's Mike Jennings says it's time for the government to take serious action."
Regards,

ArphaRima

dont see why people should be allowed to strike. When you start a job you're told how much you'll be earning, if you decide after a while you dont like it, tough, you took the job in the first place, leave and get another job if you dont like it

Quite a childish and selfish view of the trade union apparatus.
You quite obviously do not work in a unionised environment, and more than likely are just an embittered public transport user.

For example, lets say management walks into your workplace in the future, and demands that all employees take a 30 percent pay-cut/reduced leave/increased hours/increased productivity to make you a more competitive company. They (management) all remain on their salaries, and get bonuses for improving the firms profits for the year. This is a real scenario. Think post sept 11th.

For a start who can complain with no union to represent you? Even if the staff agree, who will represent the reimplementation of the full terms once the "crisis" is over?

Besides, most of the complaints here are about the state of the timetables, buses, prices etc and not SIPTU. The employees have no input to that.. Guess what, thats poor management, etc.

With the current rate of inflation in Ireland and the last few years, it is only natural that employees need pay rises to keep them above water, otherwise their effective earnings would be down. And of course it is not going to be welcomed. Its a negotiation. But negotiation has to be backed with a threat. Industrial action.

The government already has implemented strategies to combat these. The Programme for Prosperity and Fairness and the Sustaining Progress deals. All locked disputes are settled in front of the Labour court. Then there is the NIB -National implementation body. In return for agreeing to terms for industrial disputes, employees are guaranteed 2-3 percent every year or so. Problem is that the labour court tends to favour the employer.
For example if an employer comes before the court with 30 unreasonable demands, 10 will be accepted. The employees are after giving away 10 concessions with no coresponding reward.

Dr. Dre

BeerBaron gets my vote, 'nuff said.

RampagingBadger

In my opinion striking is possibly the dumbest thing the union could do. They're not currently fighting for their jobs, they're fighting for a change in government policy. The government isn't going to change their policy because the union goes on strike, if anything these strikes only justify the governments policy of privitisation. What the union needs is the publics support and they won't get this by going on strike. As I see it they have 2 options.
1.) Do no-fares days. The public loves this, it hurts CIE/Dublin Bus but doesn't put the average punter out. These could be sustained indefinately.
2.) Only run strikes from 10:00 to 16:00 and then after 20:00. This means people who need buses to get to work can still work, so they make their point without unduly inconveniencing anyone.
Unions are a good thing, but they need to be reasonable. I don't think it's their place to dictate government policy. If the government wants to privatise Dublin bus and hand workers over to private management that's a different story, but that isn't currently the case and as such SIPTU is overstepping it's mandate.

Badger.

whosurpaddy

1.) Do no-fares days. The public loves this, it hurts CIE/Dublin Bus but doesn't put the average punter out. These could be sustained indefinately.
[/B]

great idea.

2.) Only run strikes from 10:00 to 16:00 and then after 20:00. This means people who need buses to get to work can still work, so they make their point without unduly inconveniencing anyone. [/B]

no true. too many people work shift work in dublin. there is no time of day that u could have a bus strike that wont prevent someone form getting to work.

Scruff

unions had there day back in the bygone era's of yore. I've ranted about them before so not going to go on too much this time.
A large part of the problem with unions and the public sector is that public sector's huge inefficiencies causes an awful lot of overtime to be worked (recent prison service and postal service disputes) which inturn increases the losses the public service runs at. Workers and unions tend to count all the money earned in overtime in with the employe's basic wage as their standard income so that when the management of x public service try to cut costs by cutting overtime, the union's start to whinge that they're members wages and standard of living is being erroded where in fact the employee's have been living on a inflated wage in the 1st place.

If i got paid overtime and my company said "right lads, no more overtime. we're being run into the ground by it. just standard 40hr weeks from now on" i'd be pissed off that the gravy train had ended but would go on strike over it. i just wouldn't work overtime unless i really needed to e.g. to meet an important deadline.

and i wont get started again on this whole "job for life" mantra that unions beat continuously....

The Beer Baron

ok so this thread's dropped down to obscurity since I last signed in but here goes...

I've nothing against the concept of unions, insofar as I've nothing against the concept of socialism, communism, democracy or any other ideal that's fuill of good intentions but marred by human nature- In my experience unions were always headed by the loudest, most cantankerous, stubborn morons- they were always bitching about this and that- but never about anything of any importance.
For example, the head of one union in a company I worked for was more concerned with the purchasing of a new Burco boiler for the cantiene than with the fact that the entire place was a deathtrap. (Although a lot of the workers were willing to look the other way whilst clamouring for a claim at the same time- I've even heard of people deliberatly putting their hands into industrial machinery, getting them mangled then running to the solicitor)

Meanwhile large American companies work not on the union system but on the incentives scheme, I've found people will work 24hours 7 days a week if the money's right, mind-numbing factory jobs with unions will find their workers always grumbling whereas other companies don't seem to have that problem. I've also found that many companies actually ostracise you when you refuse to join a union, many bully weaker-willed people to join, when it's all of us, versus you, most people crack and join- there were other "Unions" and "Socialist" parties that operated on this principle, albiet on a larger level, they were Soviet and National respectivly.

Me personally, I've never joined a union in my life and I never will- unless, of course, I find a union leader who actually cares for the welfare of the people he or she represents rather than being an individual on a monomaniacal crusade to incite dissent within an organisation, make mountains out of molehills and all this, for a couple of Dunnes Stores coupons on Christmas, a new toasted sandwich maker and a massive inflation of their own ego.

One's workplace is a great place to take political notes anyways- it's like national politics in microcosm, take the company brass as the ruling government, not the smartest people in the world, not the most capable, efficient or scruplous and their agenda isn't that of the unions or the workers, but their own at all times.
Then we have the boombastic bitching of the stubborn old union mules as the opposition (in this case we'll call them Fianna Gaél) who prefer to nitpick and focus on trivialities instead of actually improve the lot of any of the employees. As for the employees themselves, their fickle, they want more money but more time off, more benifits but less pay deductions, they want to boost company morale and go on strike in the space of the same sentence, they swing like pendulms from one side to the other, whoever's talking at the time, whoever's got the floor has their agreement, until the mike is passed, whoever makes the boldest promises recieve the support of the masses.

Nothing ever gets done in the end, time is wasted, productivity and harmony drop in equal amount, and we go round and round and round on our aimless little Paddy-go-round.

ArphaRima

On another note, with what I read day by day on the An Post crisis, it does appear that the management have a point. The union is playing games. Playing them badly.

But in every dispute, it's a good idea to read everything you can about it, take a step back, consider the arguments, and see where the truth lies before you rant about the inconvenience caused by industrial unrest to you personally.