Time to Judge McCarthy

GuanYin

As the season is drawing to a close, it seems a good time to look back at Mick McCarthy's first season in charge of Sunderland.

Many people, especially in Ireland, don't rate McCarthy and never have. Yet the fact remains he has taken a shambolic situation at the Stadium of Light and turned things round. I find it hard to believe that Sunderland fans would have much bad to say about him.

With 13 games to go, Sunderland are well in contention for promotion. While twelve points behind the automatic promotion places, they are but three points behind third place and have 2/3 games in hand.

Add to this an FA cup semi-final tie where they must be the clear favourites and you can see that it has been a sucessful season for the black cats. Technically, they have as much chance at silverwear as Manchester Utd. this season.

All this in a season where McCarthy was forced to slash the wage bill and sell or loan many of the clubs key players while building a team out of youth, reserve and budget acquisitions, the question must be asked, is McCarthy a better manager than many gave credit for after all?

Thanx 4 The Fish

I have always respected Mc Carthy as a manager. He is not a stupid man and was used to making the best of what he had.

Now what I would love to see id Dunphy apologising for saying how bad he was and how he thought they would be relegated again this season.

BTW when are the opening up the new bacon runway at Heathrow ?

sikes

really have been impressed with mccarthy hope they get back to where they belong and maybe in the fa cup final to have the last laugh ...... o wait i shouldn't bring this up!

if they get to the final me am hopin to head over if i can get the tickets

AngelofFire

He is crap because

1)he has never scored a point in the premeirship

2)during and after the world cup he played off form ROI players. Connolly, Kilbane,Breen,Harte etc.

3)Throughout his years in charge of the national team he never stood up to the FAI and demanded facilities equipment or nutrition that was adequate for proffessional footballers let alone internationals.

3)he makes dreadful tactical decisions. during the ireland vs Russia match in moscow we were loosing 3-2 so he decides to switch to a 5-2-3 formation. the extra defender that he brought on was someone who had not featured in the irish set up for years. he was chosen ahead of premiership regulars O`Brien and O`shea. he scored the og.

during ireland vs switzerland we were drawn 1-1 with 10 mins to go. mc carthy switches to a 3-4-3 formation to try and win the match bringing off a left back. the goal we conceded later on was left sided.

During ireland vs spain kilbane, Ian harte, and Connolly were allowed to take penalties:(

Connolly was given a place on the bench. ahead of the in form clinton morrisson


that is my professional evaluation of Mick Mc carthy. he is an average manager. and is only suited to the nationwide leagues

eirebhoy

Originally posted by AngelofFire
He is crap because

1)he has never scored a point in the premeirship

2)during and after the world cup he played off form ROI players. Connolly, Kilbane,Breen,Harte etc.

3)Throughout his years in charge of the national team he never stood up to the FAI and demanded facilities equipment or nutrition that was adequate for proffessional footballers let alone internationals.

3)he makes dreadful tactical decisions. during the ireland vs Russia match in moscow we were loosing 3-2 so he decides to switch to a 5-2-3 formation. the extra defender that he brought on was someone who had not featured in the irish set up for years. he was chosen ahead of premiership regulars O`Brien and O`shea. he scored the og.

during ireland vs switzerland we were drawn 1-1 with 10 mins to go. mc carthy switches to a 3-4-3 formation to try and win the match bringing off a left back. the goal we conceded later on was left sided.

During ireland vs spain kilbane, Ian harte, and Connolly were allowed to take penalties:(

Connolly was given a place on the bench. ahead of the in form clinton morrisson


that is my professional evaluation of Mick Mc carthy. he is an average manager. and is only suited to the nationwide leagues

1) the players didn't give a toss as they were already certs to get relegated, you can't blame McCarthy for that.

2)I agree with you about Kilbane and Harte but not Breen, he has never let Ireland down.

I agree you about the Swizz and Russian matches.

I don't think any manager wouldn't let a player take a penalty.

Connolly >>>>>> Morrison, although they are both two different kind of players.

Xterminator

Originally posted by AngelofFire
He is crap because

1)he has never scored a point in the premeirship

2)during and after the world cup he played off form ROI players.....
.....etc etc......

7560) Connolly was given a place on the bench. ahead of the in form clinton morrisson

that is my professional evaluation of Mick Mc carthy. he is an average manager. and is only suited to the nationwide leagues

Isnt hindsight a great thing?

You seem to have a problem giving credit where its due, Eireboy. Forgotton the positives of the Ireland job, where Mick managed a small nation to a major finals, where we qualifed for the knockout stages,? Oh and under Mick, Ireland played attractive football, which was somethng Jack could never claim!!!

And dont forget Sunderland beat Birmingham their FA cup run, so their's your win against a premiership team. And theyve beaten a few teams that will be in the running for the premiership next year! (West Ham).

I would be in the Roy Keane camp, when it came to the whole Saipan debacle, but i am not so biased i cannot see that Mick has worked a small miracle at Sunderland, who it seemed would be hard pressed to avoid relegation at the start of the season.

Credit where credit's due!

X

GuanYin

It'll be a scrap against either milwall or tranmere but if they get to the final they would have to fancy themselves against the current Utd defence. Kyle is a big lad and going on recent performances and the Everton game in particular, Utd seem to be having trouble with defending in the air. I can't see Sunderland doing much against the Gunners though.

_blank_

Originally posted by Xterminator

Mick managed a small nation to a major finals

The way I see it, Roy Keane was responsible for Irelands qualification for WC2002, he dragged that team there kicking and screaming, quite literally.

p.pete

Originally posted by seansouth
The way I see it, Roy Keane was responsible for Irelands qualification for WC2002, he dragged that team there kicking and screaming, quite literally.

Didn't Mick do well to get a 1 player team to the WC?

edit:

OK, credit where credit is due - Roy Keane was a significant factor in getting us to the wc and without him there wasn't a snowballs chance. We had some promising young players coming into the team at that stage but they (i.e. Keane (Robbie) and Duff) were not then the influences that they are now.

In a lot of areas of the pitch there was very little talent to work with and yes Roy did brilliant for us.

Perhaps Mick could have done better for us - he certainly wasn't helped by his relationship with Roy Keane. He did a solid job with Millwall and is doing great with Sunderland. Personally I think the only way anyone could have done better as Ireland manager was if Roy was willing to play happy families with them. When he wants to be a bo11ox he sure is good at it.

RasTa

Yea it was all roy keane who got us to the world cup, this arguument will never die but give me duff over keane ANY day
But McCarthy is nothing special as a manager when he was with Ireland, used to wreck my head when he played Duff upfront and Kilbane on the left. Good luck to him though glad to see he is doing well with Sunderland and i hope we(united) get them in the F.A Cup final.

_blank_

Originally posted by p.pete
Personally I think the only way anyone could have done better as Ireland manager was if Roy was willing to play happy families with them. When he wants to be a bo11ox he sure is good at it.

Happy Families?

What the hell is that?....does it mean accepting sub-standard training facilities, pretending to be glad just to be in the world cup, because we are a small nation and don't deserve to win it?

Keane wasn't being a bollix, he was stating, as captain, concerns that players had come to him with. And I'm not just talking about Saipan either. Evryone remembers the "seats on the plane" saga.

Mick McCarthy could not accept that someone was questioning his running of team affairs, even though these concerns were ligitimate. For McCarthy to brush these off as failings of the FAI was just wrong. He was the manager, it was his job to address the concerns of the players. He appointed Roy Keane as captain, if he was unwilling to work with him, then he should have appointed another captain. Someone he could and was willing to listen to. Part of the captains job is to act as a liason between the manager and players, a senior member of the squad who the players might be able to talk to about any problems, and present the players' concerns to the manager.

These were McCarthy's failings, and they will haunt him for the remainder of his career.

super_furry

McCarthy was a great manager who deserved so much more than being forced out of the Irish job in the shameful manner in which he was. I'd love nothing more than for Sunderland to meet Man Yoo in the Cup final and see the Black Cats win it.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by Xterminator
You seem to have a problem giving credit where its due, Eirebhoy

Don't you mean AngelofFire? I hope McCarthy succeeds.

vorbis

seansouth those "issues" you outlined were solved well before the world cup. As for sunderland, I hope they beat Milwall and meet us Gunners in the final. It should make a good game.

knobbles

Originally posted by AngelofFire
He is crap because


3)
during ireland vs switzerland we were drawn 1-1 with 10 mins to go. mc carthy switches to a 3-4-3 formation to try and win the match bringing off a left back. the goal we conceded later on was left sided.

...damn right we had to try and win the match
- a home qualifier against a lower seeded team!
It's the same decision he took against Germany and Spain in the World Cup months earlier and both times it paid off - both stronger opposition than the Swiss.

Like the Ireland job, he took over a team in tatters at Sunderland and has done a magnificent job at turning their fortunes around.

thesecret7

Just look at the facts now that Mc Carthy is gone. We have a CEO over the FAI who is doing an excellent job and really making progress with Irish soccer. Everything from the stadium in Athlone to pushing for ROI training ground in abbotstown to the redevelopment of landsdown road. We have a far better manager now with Kerr who has basically built the irish soccer team since he was training underage.

Mc carthy done a few good things with the Ireland side but should have left long ago. He didnt have any bottle and without the incident of Roy Keane and Saipain, we would still be stuck with the likes of him and his weak decisions. He was going along with the old Charlton ideas, just there to make up the numbers and get pissed.

Kerr really understand the game and understands what makes irish players tick. Anyone watching him knows that he is a lot more methodically and systematic. Mc Carthy was making it up as he went along. Im sure he will do well in Sunderland but thats Sunderland in the priemership where its all about scrapping away and not international football.

Great to see the back of Mc Carthy,

Villain

Berr Kerr is a lot better IMHO

vorbis

I too like Kerr as a manager but he hasn't done anything as senior coach yet. All the qualifying matches we won, we would also have won under McCarthy.

AngelofFire

McCarthy was dead wood at that stage. if kerr had of been in for the entire qualification campaign we probably would be in portugal next summer

super_furry

Originally posted by AngelofFire
McCarthy was dead wood at that stage. if kerr had of been in for the entire qualification campaign we probably would be in portugal next summer

And if my Auntie had bollocks, she'd be my Uncle. What it boils down to is that McCarthy was sacked for not getting the results we needed against Russia and Switzerland, Kerr didn't get the results we needed against Russia and Switzerland and that was what cost us qualification. I don't want to vilify Kerr at all, but our fate was in our own hands (thanks in no small part to Kerr) and we threw it away.

knobbles

Originally posted by AngelofFire
if kerr had of been in for the entire qualification campaign we probably would be in portugal next summer

as super_furry said,
the team under Kerr took 1 point from 6 against Russia and Switzerland so that hardly gives credit to your assumption above.
They needed wins in both those games and looked as (un)likely to get it as the home one against the Swiss under Mick.
Kerr had 6 games and the team struggled in all but one (Georgia home).

That said I think Kerr is the right man for the job and i've hope for the next campaign
that the team will improve.
Dodgy campaigns like this are common for the bigger European sides like Czech Rep., Belgium, Sweden, Denmark, and in the last 15 years I'm proud to rate us up there with those nations and I hope we stay there for a while to come. But I don't expect us to qualify all the time and can't fault McCarthy or Kerr for recent qualification failures. The team just wasn't good enough last year but hopefully they'll come good in the next year.

Originally posted by thesecret7
Kerr really understand the game and understands what makes irish players tick.

...there was too much irrelevant crap from your rant above so i just highlighted this part to minimise the length of my own present rant. Yeah, Kerr is a good manager,
....as was/is Mick

SanFranMan

McCarthy's done well, but obviously (right?) he'll never be a top class manager (a-la Bobby Robson, Ferguson, Wenger to put it in perspective).
He outstayed his welcome with the ROI, and should have left sooner. He was dwarved by Keane both in the qualifications, and the tournament itself, even when Keane was on the other side of the world walking his dog.
But he looks to be re-finding his feet in the first division where he probably should stay. I really cant picture him cracking it in the top flight with any club of aspirations. Sunderland fans wont tolerate too many poor results back in the PL. He's best off where he is, pushing an average bunch of players to occassional minor victories.
Sad, but true.

IgnatiusJRiley

Originally posted by seansouth
Happy Families?

What the hell is that?....does it mean accepting sub-standard training facilities, pretending to be glad just to be in the world cup, because we are a small nation and don't deserve to win it?

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Jesus, this "sub-standard training facilities" bull really bugs the hell outta me. Who gives a toss!!! Just get on with it

brucealmighty

Originally posted by IgnatiusJRiley
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Jesus, this "sub-standard training facilities" bull really bugs the hell outta me. Who gives a toss!!! Just get on with it

Yeah if we just ignore all the mistakes he made he is a half decent manager.

IMO when the heat was on he couldn't hack it and that cost us in the world cup where we played all of extra time in the Spain match not realising we had a numerical advantage.

TwoShedsJackson

McCarthy is a shite manager who's on a good run at the moment. I'm sure Carlton Palmer and Alan Ball managed to put a decent run together at some point in their managerial careers too

Why do people keep banging on about what a great World Cup we had in 2002?? We got a fortunate draw, drew a game we should have won, and then beat the worst side in the tournament. In the second round we failed to beat a team that McCarthy didn't even notice were playing with ten men for the entirety of extra time, and produced some of the most lamentable penalty-kick-taking ever to exit the tournament. Even Michael Owen probably would have scored one of those penalties

DapperGent

I'll never forgive him for that away game in Croatia. Dropped a lot of the first team to ensure that they would be fit to play against Malta a few day later. Malta.

A 4-5-1 with an ageing Big Cas up front on his own. We got absolutely battered. The fact that the goal came in extra time was no excuse the Croatians should have had five or six by then.

What a fucking moron.

Plus I can't look at his nose without getting a desperate urge to deliver a savage left to right punch to it.

AngelofFire

I just know kerr wouldnt of thrown away the first two games in the same way that mccarthy did. ok fair enough the last 2 games against russia and switzerland were terrible results but at lest kerr gave 100% i doubt even fabio capello, alex ferguson, dave o leary or martin o neil could of gotten us to the finals after the first two games. Kerr did very little wrong in the last two games considering that robbie keane was missing against russia. and the linchpin of the defence kenny cunningham was suspended for switzerland.

Jivin Turkey

McCarthy is a good manager, there is no doubt about that, he took an ageing irish teamand totally transformed it into a side that could play ball. We came so close to qualifying for every tournament with a sh1te pool of players at our disposal. He has now totally transformed sunderland with another pool of poor resources, I mean look at their starting 11, its not pretty reading.

Everyone goes on about how better ireland is now with kerr, but look at the results! As was pointed out earlier, we have struggled in all the games under kerr apart from georgia at home. And he has had the same group of players mccarthy had. If everyone layed off mccarthy after the world cup, we would not have lost the first two games and would be going to portugal this summer.

Sherlock

"IMO when the heat was on he couldn't hack it and that cost us in the world cup where we played all of extra time in the Spain match not realising we had a numerical advantage."

This keeps being brought up and I don't even know if its true but if it is what exactly was McCarthy supposed to have done to take advantage of this?.Spain just dropped a forward back to midfield and sat back.They still had the same numbers in defence so it wasn't exactly a great advantage for us.
For all the talk about our bad preperation we finished the strongest in the games against Spain,Germany and Cameroon.
For what McCarthy had to work with he did a great job in getting us as far as we did.

GuanYin

I think McCarthy did as well as he could given what he had. What makes me laugh about all this is, a team and thus a manager should be judged on results on the pitch.

Ireland are a B Quality International team that holds its own with the A-list. That didn't change under McCarthy and if anything it was compounded. How long did Ireland go without conceeding a goal under him? How long did they go without losing at home? On the pitch they performed well beyond expectations.

When judging McCarthy people focus on two things:
1) Irelands *right* to be in the major championships. Before alot of the posters here were born Ireland had never been to a major finals. We still play with Nationwide players and our team quality isn't up there with England. Yet we've been lucky in having managers who can exploit the team spirit and raise teh players beyond their abilities. I doubt anyone could have done better in his time, in fact, when McCarthy was appointed Joe Kinnear said he would rather be the manager after McCarthy, because that would be a much easier job.


2) People focus on the off the pitch troubles. It didn't hamper the teams performance that I saw.

knobbles

Originally posted by DapperGent
I'll never forgive him for that away game in Croatia. Dropped a lot of the first team to ensure that they would be fit to play against Malta a few day later. Malta.
A 4-5-1 with an ageing Big Cas up front on his own. We got absolutely battered. The fact that the goal came in extra time was no excuse the Croatians should have had five or six by then.

He hardly dropped players to save them for Malta??? He did go very defensive.
Anyway, if we had of drawn that match we still would have missed out on auto-qualification behind Yugoslavia. I still consider that 98/99 campaign a great effort from a team that didn't appear to have a chance against two of Europes strongest sides at the time.
Remember, we were then, where Scotland are now.
Mick had to rebuild after Charlton and after 5 years it was rewarded with qualification for the World Cup...

Originally posted by TwoShedsJackson
Why do people keep banging on about what a great World Cup we had in 2002?? We got a fortunate draw, drew a game we should have won, and then beat the worst side in the tournament. In the second round we failed to beat a team that McCarthy didn't even notice were playing with ten men for the entirety of extra time, and produced some of the most lamentable penalty-kick-taking ever to exit the tournament.

So you didn't take pride from our performances?
First Half against the African champs we were rattled. 2nd half we were brilliant. We almost won.
Germany, we outplayed them for most of the game and Robbie gave us one of the most memorable moments ever in Irish football!
The team played out of their skins and deserved to beat a far more skillful Spanish side.
The Spanish only had 10 men for the 2nd period of extra-time when they began to sit back.
We had a go but nothing came of it. Many of the supporters around me didn't even notice a man missing. As regards the pealties the great spaniards weren't too convincing themselves.
Not that the kicks had anything to do with Mick :rolleyes:

GreatKingRat

"Plus I can't look at his nose without getting a desperate urge to deliver a savage left to right punch to it."

Thats the funniest post I've read this week, I know exactly what you mean, somebody straighten up the guy's nose!! It puts me off my dinner . . .

btw, he is a pretty average manager. If he'd played for England, I dont think any of us would be defending him.

thesecret7

knobbles dont try and tell me im ranting.. i KNOW what i am on about ! just watch us qualify!! At least Kerr can count how many opposition are on the field !!!!!!

Big Ears

Originally posted by Jivin Turkey
.

Everyone goes on about how better ireland is now with kerr, but look at the results! As was pointed out earlier, we have struggled in all the games under kerr apart from georgia at home. And he has had the same group of players mccarthy had. If everyone layed off mccarthy after the world cup, we would not have lost the first two games and would be going to portugal this summer.

Ive looked at the results and funny enough Kerr has made the best start of any irish manager . Ever:p

JippoKelly

I'll never forgive McCarthy for Ireland conceding a last minute goal against Macedonia I think that cost us topping the group with Yugoslavia and Croatia. We had automatic qualification in our grasps and he messed it up by going all defensive after going 1-0 up against Macedonia in the Euro 2000 qualifiers. And he brought on a player for his debut in such an important match - Matt Holland. For messing that up I'll never forgive him.

Now he did well to get us to the WC in Korea/Japan but I can't help but feel that Mr. Keane was the prime reason for that. I don't blame him for the Spanish result. Except for the fact that he insisted on playing Ian Harte when the poor guy clearly wasn't at the races. Harte missed a peno in that game and was at fault for the Spanish goal. He'd been **** in the previous games as well. Anybody would have been better at LB than Harte at that stage. Even Skillbane did better when he was moved to LB in the Spain match.

In saying that I still wish McCarthy good luck with Sunderland and I hope he continues his good work there. Overall he did a good job as Ireland manager but he was let down by his blind loyalty to players and his ongoing feud with Keane. I'd love him to win the FA Cup agianst United in the final. Would be a nice revenge for him.

super_furry

Originally posted by Big Ears
Ive looked at the results and funny enough Kerr has made the best start of any irish manager . Ever:p

Still not good enough to get us to Euro 2004, but that's OK because it's McCarthy's fault, right? :rolleyes:

JippoKelly

At the end of the day, we couldn't beat an inconsistent Russian outfit and a distinctly average Swiss team under either manager. We didn't deserve to get to Euro 2004.

Our downfall, and it is still our biggest weakness, was our distinct lack of creativity in midfield. With the exception of Duff, there's nobody that could create chances for Ireland in midfield since Keane has been off the scene. That's why we need to try out Miller and Andy (and Steven) Reid regularly to see if they can provide a bit of spark and imagination in an otherwise workmanlike but unspectacular midfield.

Oswald Osbourne

Man-managment-wise many can argue that McCarthy blew it with Keane (which I don't agree btw) but you can see that Kerr in a full year hasn't managed to get Keane back on board so who's to say he or anyone else could have handled the guy any better? After all Keane was a troublemaker ever since his introduction under Charlton.

It might also be noted that McCarthy was able to keep top-class keeper Dean Kiely interested for 4 years despite rarely picking him where as Kerr wasn't able to convine the guy to stick around so that must say something for McC as a man manager.

Tactics-wise everybody always criticises him for the 3-4-3 against Switzerland but I don't remember anyone complaining when he did it for the Germany match? If we had drawn in Russia the previous month then 1-1 against the Swiss might have done, but being a manager with experience and a brain in his head McCarthy KNEW we had to win the Swiss game so he gambled and unfortunately it didn't work out for him, such is football.

McCarthy was a good manager for Ireland, Millwall and Sunderland. He got us 3 runner-up places in three attempts and that was as good as anything Charlton achieved (only Jack had better players). What's more he did it playing attractive football and not the 'put-em-under-pressure' rubbish of Charlton or the ultra cautious 'let the back 4 keep the ball for 15 minutes' style of Kerr. Personally I've never enjoyed following the Irish team as much as I did under McCarthy and I'm sorry he's gone.

Johnny_the_fox

Originally posted by Oswald Osbourne
Man-managment-wise many can argue that McCarthy blew it with Keane (which I don't agree btw) but you can see that Kerr in a full year hasn't managed to get Keane back on board so who's to say he or anyone else could have handled the guy any better? After all Keane was a troublemaker ever since his introduction under Charlton.

It might also be noted that McCarthy was able to keep top-class keeper Dean Kiely interested for 4 years despite rarely picking him where as Kerr wasn't able to convine the guy to stick around so that must say something for McC as a man manager.

Tactics-wise everybody always criticises him for the 3-4-3 against Switzerland but I don't remember anyone complaining when he did it for the Germany match? If we had drawn in Russia the previous month then 1-1 against the Swiss might have done, but being a manager with experience and a brain in his head McCarthy KNEW we had to win the Swiss game so he gambled and unfortunately it didn't work out for him, such is football.

McCarthy was a good manager for Ireland, Millwall and Sunderland. He got us 3 runner-up places in three attempts and that was as good as anything Charlton achieved (only Jack had better players). What's more he did it playing attractive football and not the 'put-em-under-pressure' rubbish of Charlton or the ultra cautious 'let the back 4 keep the ball for 15 minutes' style of Kerr. Personally I've never enjoyed following the Irish team as much as I did under McCarthy and I'm sorry he's gone.

I agree to what he said..

Jivin Turkey

Originally posted by Big Ears
Ive looked at the results and funny enough Kerr has made the best start of any irish manager . Ever:p

Because McCarthy had built a good team and constantly introduced new players so that old players could be phased out without hitch.

Some people are harping on giving out about McCarty playing 3-4-3 against the Swiss (when we need a win) , and then giving out about him playing 4-5-1 in Croatia ( when a draw would have been useful). What is he only allowed play 4-4-2 or something???

Sunderland will get promoted (if not this year, they will win the league next year), and then they will re-establish themselves in the PL. TBH I think the cup is a bit too much to ask if they are pitted either against Arsenal or Man U but they can always dream.

Lennoxschips

Mick McCarthy to Denis Irwin: "prove yourself"

'nuff said.

sikes

Originally posted by Lennoxschips
Mick McCarthy to Denis Irwin: "prove yourself"

'nuff said.

what? every player needs to prove himself. its not what the player has achieved in recent seasons that gets him playin or selected, its how he is doing now.

that method is something called motivation which is surprisingly enough used by many managers.

AngelofFire

yes but the prove yourself rule didnt apply to the lacklustre Ian Harte ,Kevin Kilbane and David connolly

Jivin Turkey

Originally posted by AngelofFire
yes but the prove yourself rule didnt apply to the lacklustre Ian Harte ,Kevin Kilbane and David connolly

Ian Harte only really lost form in 2002, and found himself out of the team in 2003. Granted he has always been prone to defensive errors, but what he gave to the team going forward out weighed that. We were always short on the left side of defence anyway.

Kilbane, always worked his balls off for Ireland. Im not saying he is a great footballer, but he will never stop trying for the team. And has been playing premiership football, ever since he made it there. Obviously premiership managers think he is good enough.

David Connolly never got a sustained spell in the team under mccarthy, and the only time he would ever play was if options up front were tight. He only consistently made squads because who else would be there?

So in other words, the rule did apply to those players.

The Muppet

Originally posted by sikes
what? every player needs to prove himself. its not what the player has achieved in recent seasons that gets him playin or selected, its how he is doing now.

that method is something called motivation which is surprisingly enough used by many managers.

True every player should be judged on performances but to tell an established player like Irwin that he had to prove himself was stupididy of the highest order and cost Ireland the services of one of the best Left/Right backs that we ever had.

The purpose of motivation is to Gee players up so you get the best performances out of them . While Micks comments may have been aimed at motivating him they had the opposite effect as any good man manager would have known.

SanFranMan

I cant think of a more reliable leftback to have played in the Premier League or Irish jersey. And I say that as a relative neutral to the English game. That "motivational" piece sounds like the lunacy of a confused man. Particularly in the context of the games for mates approach McCarthy brought to that team.


I have to agree he'll never be more than an average manager.

vorbis

stop stirring Muppet. Irwin I would bet was considering retiring anyways. Only he did it with far more class than the other corkman. And to restate sikes point again, whats wrong with asking players to prove themselves. Was Irwin supposed to be allowed play for Ireland for life?

thesecret7

mc carthy made a joke of the irish side towards the end... either he lost the plot or was having a twisted joke! Some of those results were terrible, especailly against a dodgey russian side and the like of switzerland

The Muppet

Originally posted by vorbis
stop stirring Muppet. Irwin I would bet was considering retiring anyways. Only he did it with far more class than the other corkman. And to restate sikes point again, whats wrong with asking players to prove themselves. Was Irwin supposed to be allowed play for Ireland for life?

Whos's stirring, Im just giving my opinion on a point made in the thread. If you can't handle differing opinions than your own thats not my problem. As you can see from the other threads I am not alone in thinking this situation was badly handled.

super_furry

Some of those results were terrible, especailly against a dodgey russian side and the like of switzerland

We're going in circles here but how well did the brilliant Brian Kerr's side do against those teams?

sikes

many teams suffer from a big tournament hang over and lose to lesser teams, has happened in our favour before.

that couple with all the press coverage regardin saipan real didn't help the build to the games