Why do people decide to become Goths?

simu

Having been in a pub full of goths recently, I'm wondering what the attraction of this look is. Why do people decide to become goths? Dosen't it just make it easy for ppl to label you? (especially older goths who are obviously more than just teenagers trying to annoy their parents)

On a practical level, isn't it hassle buying only black clothes?, do you become a goth overnight or just gradually?

Serious answers will be appreciated!

bizmark

because black is the new.....er black :ninja:

i dont know why either.If i see them in town id avoid like the black death (get the pun) as you said it just makes it easyer for people to lable them

On a practical level, isn't it hassle buying only black clothes?,

nearly all my stuff is black (even my pc is black) its not hard to buy black clothes

GuanYin

This always puzzled me aswell. Not just Goths but similar groupings where alot of people wear similar cloths (the Avril Lavigne look frequented bythe teens hanging at the central bank for instance).

On one hand it could be seen as a statement of individuality, but surely if you have a group all dressing in the same way, that becomes farce.

"lets all be individuals together, in the same way"

Is it just the look suits/appeals to people, because I certainly don't understand the statement.

Raphael

"If you always wear black, everything matches" - GTA: VC

Seriously though, I have no idea, I'm most of the way to goth, but i never consciously decided to do so. It just sorta happened. Lifes strange, deal with it

feylya

Why do ravers become ravers? Why do knacks wear knack clothes? Why do lumberjacks wear check shirts? It's just a style that appeals I suppose. I'm not a goth but I wear black. Couldn't be bothered figuring out colours and all that kinda thing.

simu

Originally posted by feylya
Why do ravers become ravers? Why do knacks wear knack clothes? Why do lumberjacks wear check shirts? It's just a style that appeals I suppose. I'm not a goth but I wear black. Couldn't be bothered figuring out colours and all that kinda thing.

Hmm, I've heard a lot of Goths going on about being individuals and being different and so on whereas you'd rarely get that from skangers and lumberjacks. In fact, lumberjack clothers are practical for being out in the woods cutting trees so that's no great mystery.

I wear a fair amount of black myself but I'm talking more about ppl who also put on white makeup and have to dye their hair pitch black etc - is it worth the effort?

feylya

Meh, is it really any different from putting red on your face and black on your eyes like 99% of the female population of this country did at one stage or another?

spongebob

a Dietary Deficiency or Colour Blindness .

or both .

M

User45701

What does goth mean EXEATLY

I Only wear black. when i was younger i had no interest in Nike or a manu T-shirt or anything like that. I dont wear what is "kool" to wear.

I Wear black but i dont hang out with people who only wear black and i dont like music (dont goths like a certan type of music?)

feylya

Originally posted by User45701
(dont goths like a certan type of music?)

I believe it's called Gothic music

tribble

you wouldn't understand

Seraphina

i dont get the guys myself, but i like the look on the ladies, rar n such. not too much white on the face tho, looks like talc then.

Bottle_of_Smoke

tanned girls with black lipstick = v hot
i find goths attractive you just dont, i prob dont like your type, not worth worrying about

User45701

Originally posted by feylya
I believe it's called Gothic music

where goths named after the music or the music after the goths?

feylya

Hmm, that's a tough one. I'd say the music came after. Aren't goths into vampires and such?

honru

Originally posted by feylya
I believe it's called Gothic music

What's gothic music?

I think it just has to do with individuality, but in real terms the whole idea of a goth has been flushed down the toilet.

Töpher

Originally posted by User45701
(dont goths like a certan type of music?)

You'd be surprised at how varied a taste in music some people can have.

To be honest, the people that do it to piss of their folks or whatever and consciously decide to only wear black so they can be a goth or something just give some good people a bad name. Central bank kids take note, noone likes you!

LegacyUser

Originally posted by simu
lumberjack clothers are practical for being out in the woods cutting trees so that's no great mystery.

lol, thats the funniest thing i've read in ages

Jim

Originally posted by f®eak s©enery
What's gothic music?
/B]

The original Gothic music is a type of classical music that came from a particular period and style, same with architecture and such. I doubt many goths listen to classical.

I suppose the music and the buildings etc... inspired a sort of fear in people, inspiring stories like Dracula etc...
Therefore transfered to our little friends because of their apperence.

honru

Originally posted by Jimeatsmenu
The original Gothic music is a type of classical music that came from a particular period and style, same with architecture and such. I doubt many goths listen to classical.

I suppose the music and the buildings etc... inspired a sort of fear in people, inspiring stories like Dracula etc...
Therefore transfered to our little friends because of their apperence.

Goth music (or Goth Rock) is essentially the gloomiest and bleakest form of post-punk, thus it originated in the 80s. Examples of some goth bands are Bauhaus, The Cure, Love and Rockets, Siouxsie and the Banshees etc.

Yet I don't see how this equates with this generation. The term "goth music/rock" is very misunderstood.

ixoy

Originally posted by simu
Having been in a pub full of goths recently, I'm wondering what the attraction of this look is. Why do people decide to become goths?

Are you sure you weren't watching Fraiser?! The exact same thing occurred tonight...

Gummy Panda

Originally posted by Bottle_of_Smoke
tanned girls with black lipstick = v hot
i find goths attractive you just dont, i prob dont like your type, not worth worrying about

Couldn;t agree more. Use to know a a tanned girl (had middle east blood in her) who was a goth.

/goes off to dream about her

l3rian

My school was infested with goths. I always got a great laugh from their big boots, leather clothes, and black makeup. I didnt doit myself, because I played football every break and tracksuits are more comfortable anyway. But I have to admit that one of the tall guys did look cool, in that darth vader kind of way.

I think they decide to dress that way, when they begin to hang around with other goths.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by Seraphina
but i like the look on the ladies, rar n such.

oooh!:dunno:

TheSonOfBattles

One of my friends was all but Goth, and I never really found him particularly strange, nor was he annoying or obsessed with death or that kinda thing. Fair enough, he liked Anne Rice Vampire books, but then I liked them as well, we had pretty much the same tastes book, tv, and comics wise so that's no real indication that that alone was a goth thing. He did like a fair bit of music I didn't though, like Marilyn Manson, though I've never really listened to enough of his stuff to judge to be honest.

He even wore make up the odd time, though the time he wore nail polish was actually against his will (someone painted his nails at a party, and he has no sisters, so there was no nail polish remover at home, so he was wearing it for a few days, till he got paid and could afford some), though he did laugh it off himself after a few hours.

I don't think there's anything wrong with Goths, and I find Goth women can very hot, and as such am disappointed at the lack of them in just about every place that I've been in Ireland. I think how people become Goth's is that they just like a certain type of music, a certain dress style, a certain literary style, and people label them Goth's. They grow into this label and accept it. Depression usually goes hand in hand with the lifestyle though, the guy I knew cut himself A LOT. His chest, arms and shoulders were covered in cuts, and even he couldn't really explain why he did it. His parents freaked when they found out, and he was seeing a physciatrist for ages. Haven't talked to him in ages, must give him a call next time I'm back in Dungarvan really.

colincarnate

Why does anyone do anything? - For girls ... no really[1]



[1]
I reference the Futurama episode where Fry gets a copy of Lucy Lui.
"You wanna come over to my place and make out Billy?"
"No thanks i'll just stay here and make out with my Marilyn Monroe-bot"

'With the money earned from his paper route Billy could have afforded to buy Stacy a meal and therefore earning a slight chance at the reproductive process'

Fysh

Originally posted by l3rian
I think they decide to dress that way, when they begin to hang around with other goths.

Yes, but in that case...where did the original one get the idea from?

Also - re: classical music and goths. You could say that "I doubt many (insert subculture name here) fans listen to classical". It's not really saying much at all, because some people who call themselves goths (or punks, or grungers, or metallers, or indie kids, or whatever...)will listen to classical, others won't. You can't decide on someone's cultural influences and tastes based purely on their appearance, tempting as it may be with the current fad for "wearing your individuality".

Not sure why I even brought that up, when I'm not a goth and don't want to be. Oh well...

Dustaz

And the aware for "Most Obviously Goth Cant You See What I'm Wearing Its All Black Like And The Nail Polish" answer goes to:

Originally posted by tribble
you wouldn't understand

rofl

Pugsley

Most of them listen to manson etc just to 'fit in' (he cant sing for supper if you ask me), but most of their musical tastes are way off that, well, a good few of them. I personally like mostly heavy death metal (albiet im no goth, geek/nerd would be a good bit closer), doesnt mean I dont like other music, I love power metal and classical too, some of Beethovens stuff is excellent, 5th Symphony anyone? among with other excellent composer's. I know a good few goths a bit, and most of their music taste's are not death metal at all, (I have yet to meet a single goth who listens to Immortal, VED, or Entombed [while these are all black metal, the point stands]) however a lot like grunge and thrash, infact pretty much all of them like either Nirvana or Metallica religiously.

ozt9vdujny3srf

My Opinion:

Most goths are teenagers, teenagers often like to do things their parents dont like , and one of the most important things to a teenager is fitting in. Becoming a goth makes you part of a social group and your parents are unlikely to approve . Also, from my experiance most of them are very comfortable, happy, confident people within their group of friends, and usually far from depressed.

Meh its just like any other group of teenagers who all dress similarly, just a bit more noticeable and ridiculous.

For most "goths" its just a phase, they'll probably look back at pictures and cringe .

Karl Hungus

Ah, now here's a topic that hasn't come up in a while.
Time to get me arguement boots on.

Originally posted by simu
Hmm, I've heard a lot of Goths going on about being individuals and being different and so on whereas you'd rarely get that from skangers and lumberjacks.

Ok, I'll tell you this, as a sell-proclaimed goth (At one time...) that it's horse****.

I'm going to state a fact here, humans are by nature conformist, and anyone who's telling you that they're doing X, Y or Z just to be different, or non-conformist are just being idiots beleiving their own hype. Put simply, people just conform to standards that they feel comfortable with, and that's pretty much an explanation of why people decide to become Goths. It's that simple!

Originally posted by f®eak s©enery
Goth music (or Goth Rock) is essentially the gloomiest and bleakest form of post-punk, thus it originated in the 80s. Examples of some goth bands are Bauhaus, The Cure, Love and Rockets, Siouxsie and the Banshees etc.

Yet I don't see how this equates with this generation. The term "goth music/rock" is very misunderstood.

NAIL/HAMMER/HEAD right there!

The term 'Goth' is just thrown about FAR, FAR too much.
Especially by people who'd call themselves goth.

I'd like everyone here, to go here:
http://www.the-sisters-of-mercy.com/showcase/mp3/albumsandsingles/mp3index128.htm

Listen to some samples there, and get a decent idea of what the whole Goth music thing is all about. I'd make a serious bet that it's nothing like most people here would think. And whats more is, I'd make a bet that most people who'd call themselves Goth these days would be very, VERY suprised.

Bungalow Bill

From experience of going through the school system, a lot of people decide to become(goth's, rockers, moshers...whatever) at the age of 14-16, yeah??

And from my experience most of them tend to 'grow out of it' too.
Those that don't seem to be the ones who still feel that they are rejected from society.

I just think that the whole thing is quite pretentious. We have all heard the bunches of 15 year old Nirvana hoodie gangs of Irish kids with AMERICAN accents!.

As for the trying to make a definition of 'goth', I think he meant that kind of culture in general and he could easily have used the words, rocker, mosher, or whatever to serve the same purpose.

Believe me most of these people have no clue about gothic architecture or classical music!.

seamus

Originally posted by Truckle
Most goths are teenagers, teenagers often like to do things their parents dont like , and one of the most important things to a teenager is fitting in. Becoming a goth makes you part of a social group and your parents are unlikely to approve . Also, from my experiance most of them are very comfortable, happy, confident people within their group of friends, and usually far from depressed.

Yep. Not conforming is cool. But teenagers have an irresistable urge to clinge to a social group which accepts and validates them. The irony of the fact that they are confirming in some way is lost, because they crave the acceptance of their peer group, which requires conforming with them.
The appeal is that it shocks and horrifies some. I personally know some people who dress a certain way, and do certain things so that strangers on the street will turn their heads and go "OMG look at the state of him/her", "Jesus Christ, your man looks like a ****". It's the 'bad child' thing again. Some people are lacking in attention in some parts of their life, and so crave any attention whatsoever, and the easiest type of attention to generate is negative.

As Truckle says, for the large majority, it's a phase. Anyone who stills dresses like that for shock value at 21 needs to grow the **** up and stop blaming their parents for everything.

Karl Hungus

Originally posted by Bungalow Bill
We have all heard the bunches of 15 year old Nirvana hoodie gangs of Irish kids with AMERICAN accents!.

Honestly, that whole skater kid thing couldn't be further from 'Goth'!

Again, see my comment about the term 'Goth' being overused.

Bungalow Bill

Originally posted by AngelWhore
Honestly, that whole skater kid thing couldn't be further from 'Goth'!

Again, see my comment about the term 'Goth' being overused.

Most of us subconsciously lump them in the same category my point was. Skater kids is just the 'first grade' on the angsty road to post-teen goth rejection from society.

simu

I was thinking of adult (e.g. 18 +) Goths rather than sulky kids.

Any ideas? Is it that they just can't get out of the habit?

Karl Hungus

Simu, did you check out that link I posted?

Originally posted by Bungalow Bill
Skater kids is just the 'first grade' on the angsty road to post-teen goth rejection from society.

It's got nothing in common, and it most certainly doesn't follow any such path, or road.

Bungalow Bill

Originally posted by AngelWhore

It's got nothing in common, and it most certainly doesn't follow any such path, or road.

Of course it does. It's just lighter rock, not as many black clothes. These people look up to you. And if they don't grow out of it, they will look pretty much exactly like a stereotypical goth boy/girl.

You claim this not to be true though. Why don't you tell us about your own fall from grace??

simu

I recall hearing music by The Sisters of Mercy before - it's cool.

But are all adult Goths into Goth music and while most Goth music I've heard is quite cool, why would they let their choice of music dictate their appearance? It would be hard to get away with looking like that in most jobs.

Karl Hungus

Originally posted by Bungalow Bill
Of course it does. It's just lighter rock, not as many black clothes. These people look up to you. And if they don't grow out of it, they will look pretty much exactly like a stereotypical goth boy/girl.

You claim this not to be true though. Why don't you tell us about your own fall from grace??

Look, you even say it yourself, it's just a lighter form of rock. I bet you didn't even look at the link I provided, otherwise you'd grasp the fundemental differences. I think I'm really not being clear on this, because a good example of goth music is The Sisters Of Mercy (Whom I've linked to) and to be quite frank, they're almost a 80's 'Pop' band in some sense. They'd certainly share more with the likes of David Bowie than anything out there today.

And to be utterly frank, no matter how far down the 'Path' you seem to think the Skater Kids are on, not one of them knows, or will probably ever know, who the likes of David Sylvian or Carl McCoy are.

Nowadays however, Goth music doesn't even exist in the same sense that it used to. In fact, the likes of Nick Cave (I'd not strictly consider him goth, but he certainly gets played quite a bit at various goth clubs I've been to) are as close to the old school goth bands as you'd get. If you visited the local goth club, you'd far sooner hear more electronic bands than anything 'Rock' orientated, like Switchblade Symphony, Apoptygma Berzerk, London After Midnight or VNV Nation.

I'd guarantee you, that whatever path the Skater Kids are on, they'd have to take some incredible detour, and head off on a completely different path altogether to get anywhere near where 'Goth' is. It's like Chalk'n'Cheese tbh. There really is no comparison whatsoever.

Anyway...

But are all adult Goths into Goth music and while most Goth music I've heard is quite cool, why would they let their choice of music dictate their appearance? It would be hard to get away with looking like that in most jobs.

Great thing about clothes is that they come off, and you can put different ones on. I think that personally, while I certainly don't buy into the whole image of, well pretty much any genre, I'd certainly never cast away any of my old CDs, or anything.

Despite the fact that I've long since stopped using nail-polish or anything of the sort, and that nowadays I'm certainly far more casual in my dress sense (Combats/T-Shirt) than before, I'm not gonna throw my musical taste out the window. And while I can't speak for everyone, I'm pretty sure it's the same deal.

I remember one time in a record store I was talking to the clerk about Heavy Metal and such stuff, and a bloke who certainly didn't look like he'd be into anysuch thing, completely suprised me by joining in, and revealing that he was into all the old-school Norwegian Black Metal. Which was pretty cool.

So, does this answer your question?

Falkorre

I used to do the whole thing, white pancake foundation, eyeliner, lippy, shadow, long black nails, piercings, the whole shabang, from the age of 13.

Now however I still just wear black and would still be seen as into the "goth image", the reason? It makes it clear that I wish not to converse or interact with anyone who would listen to and go on an on about the likes of kylie, american r&b, rave, trance etc etc, and no matter what anyone says, i dont apologise for that.

Musical tastes I listen to Bauhaus, The Cure (I couldnt live without my early cure albums), prunes, Siouxsie and the Banshees, pixies, bowie, doors, early placebo & suede, pumpkins, etc etc, mostly 70's 80's and some early 90's, because thats my taste.

For me, goths (if u pull it off correctly), tend not to be approached an irritated by skangers, its. that. simple. lol
Besides, there is nothing more fun than making people uncomfortable, and guys wearing make-up seems to do that hehe

B

Karl Hungus

Shut up Dawntreader, you attention seeker!!!






* Please adjust all sarcasm detectors to my frequency, thank you.

Bungalow Bill

Dawntreader, forgive me but you seem to have a serious attitude problem.

"Now however I still just wear black and would still be seen as into the "goth image", the reason? It makes it clear that I wish not to converse or interact with anyone who would listen to and go on an on about the likes of kylie, american r&b, rave, trance etc etc, and no matter what anyone says, i dont apologise for that."

It seems you categorise people by the music they listen to. The reason people listen to Kylie is because they don't really give two sh1ts about music and she just happens to be on in the clubs/pubs or whatever they go to.
This has absolutley nothing to do with their personalities and to be honest you appear to be a somewhat shallow person from the comments you have made.

"Besides, there is nothing more fun than making people uncomfortable, and guys wearing make-up seems to do that hehe "

A perfect example of your warped attitude to life. Not everyone is out to get you.

Bungalow Bill

Originally posted by AngelWhore
Shut up Dawntreader, you attention seeker!!!SIZE]

Thank you Angelwhore!

I do appreciate the conviction with which you claim to have in relation to be being a goth.
But when you see some guy walking around temple bar with fake tears drawn on their face and weird contact lenses you think, 'whats the point??'

Is it dawntreader's retarted reason's?
Are they angry at their parents??

Falkorre

yet again Im attacked for being me.
seems to me *maybe* the problem attitude is somone who cant accecpt that in reality, indivuality is frowned upon.
If I *choose* not to wanna listen to somone drone on about TOTP for hours, or the latest shakira album, then thats my buisness. Its more to do with making a judgement about what i want to be exposed to, than making a judgement about anyones personality.

And if u wanna accuse somone of that, may i suggest re-reading your post and pointing your finger at yourself?

B

PS- I do not think everyone is out to get me, I react when challenged or slurred, if you are not comfortable with people who do not sit back an take being slagged off, then thats your problem. not mine.

Bungalow Bill

Originally posted by Dawntreader

If I *choose* not to wanna listen to somone drone on about TOTP for hours, or the latest shakira album, then thats my buisness. Its more to do with making a judgement about what i want to be exposed to, than making a judgement about anyones personality.
B

NOBODY talks about TOTP for hours. Maybe you've successfully removed yourself from reality long enough to think this but it's not true!
Why is music the only thing you can consider???
Maybe you're not judging their personality but you said yourself that you wouldn't speak to them.
Not only that but you will do your utmost to deter them from doing so!!!As you said yourself!

Do yourself a favour. Lose the make-up, the devil's bible and the ozzfest ticket and make yourself a giant sign that says 'don't dare speak to me unless you look weird as I am VERY single-minded and people=****"

Karl Hungus

Originally posted by Bungalow Bill
I do appreciate the conviction with which you claim to have in relation to be being a goth.
But when you see some guy walking around temple bar with fake tears drawn on their face and weird contact lenses you think, 'whats the point??'

Firstly, I avoid Temple Bar like the plague.
Perhaps the physical plague of kiddies drives me away?

Secondly, I'd certainly think the guy was a muppet, but I'd also bet that he'd certainly have no idea what goth is. Probably more of the Marylin Manson crowd. I'll prove the point further...

Click Here!
Hardly what you'd expect when you'd think of 'Goth' but, The Fields Of The Nephilim would be one of the most well known (And certainly my favorite) goth bands there is.

As for Dawntreader:

If I *choose* not to wanna listen to somone drone on about TOTP for hours

Get the **** off your high horse!
Do I need to go to the BBC and drag up some archives of Bauhaus playing TOTP before you'd cop on to such blatant hipocrisy!

TheSonOfBattles

WOW!! Look at these bitches slap each other!! It'd almost be sexual if it wasn't so retarded.

S/He doesn't want people to speak to him about Kylie, so he cuts himself off from certain people. Big whoop! It's his own choice to do so consciencely. Not the best way to do it, but his method is his, and it's his right to do so if he wants. And the rest of ye can get off s/he's case, as it's none of yer business. It's his/her decision, and it doesn't affect yer lives one bit.

Here's a suggestion, how about stop trying to dictate other people's lives and decisions and instead: Forget about that person, and GO OUT AND LIVE YOUR OWN!

Falkorre

Originally posted by Bungalow Bill
NOBODY talks about TOTP for hours. .............
Why is music the only thing you can consider???..........
Maybe you're not judging their personality but you said yourself that you wouldn't speak to them.........

Do yourself a favour. Lose the make-up, the devil's bible and the ozzfest ticket and make yourself a giant sign that says 'don't dare speak to me unless you look weird as I am VERY single-minded and people=****"

1- People do, i meet people who do every day,..... *shrug* ....... its a fact.

2- Music is NOT the ONLY thing I consider, its a factor that rates low for me, *but* IF i have to spend an hour listening to somone go on an on about a kind of music I find boring as hell, *why* would I want to do that again? Plenty of people I associate with are into other kinds of music, they just dont go on an on about it.

3-your last "suggestion" is so stupid as to not warrant a response, but I *will* say that I am far from single minded, why are you making assumptions about my personality if its somthing you hate so much?

Karl Hungus

Originally posted by TheSonOfBattles
Here's a suggestion, how about stop trying to dictate other people's lives and decisions and instead: Forget about that person, and GO OUT AND LIVE YOUR OWN!

Nobody's trying to dictate anything, TSoB!
Arguing on the internet is FUN with a capital RETARD.

Falkorre

Originally posted by TheSonOfBattles
S/He doesn't want people to speak to him about Kylie, so he cuts himself off from certain people. Big whoop! It's his own choice to do so consciencely. Not the best way to do it, but his method is his, and it's his right to do so if he wants. And the rest of ye can get off s/he's case, as it's none of yer business. It's his/her decision, and it doesn't affect yer lives one bit.

Here's a suggestion, how about stop trying to dictate other people's lives and decisions and instead: Forget about that person, and GO OUT AND LIVE YOUR OWN!

Thank you Sonofbattles! Glad to meet somone who dosent take everything so.damned.seriously!

B