lyric standards in rock and metal

Quatre Mains

Hey YYYaaaaaa
what do people think of the general standard of lyric writing in rock music? Are there intelligent thoughtful lyricists out there or are they all a pack of dummies?
I've been looking thru my collection and when it comes to rock music there are a lot of really ****e lyrics which I didn't notice when I was a kid but which I find a bit off-putting now.
The obvious target here is hair-rock, which I was mad about as a teen but nowadays I only listen to it occassionally,in the car with the windows fully up. But I'm not just referring to stupid sex-related lyrics here. What about all the angsty lyrics we get from the nu-metal and EMO crowd, and the plain thick stuff like "Keep rollin, rollin, rollin" etc. With good time rock n roll tunes like AC/DC you don't mind the mad lyrics as they're part of the music's charm, but at times you want something a little deeper IMO.
Over the years there have been a few decent lyricists (Mustaine, Vedder spring to mind) but it seems to me that serious rock will always be spoiled by stupid lyrics. At the start of the 90's there was a bit of a move to what I would term socially concious lyrics by bands like Warrior Soul and Living Colour, but that disappeared pretty quick.
I find after listening to the likes of say Lou Reed or Nick Cave, that its a bit jarring sometimes listening to some heavy music.
So my questions are - do you think that rock music is actually advancing lyrically and not sticking to the tried and trusted? Or do you think we are always going to be hearing tales of 16 year old girls, dragons, and self-harm? And lastly, do you feel that rockers should try harder or that only certain themes are suited to rock/metal?

Neil

Karl Hungus

That's a very hard question to answer.
I mean, as you say yourself, AC/DC's mad lyrics are part of their charm, and in the same sense, I like a bit of the old sillyness of Dragons and suchlike. It's all part of the good cheesy package of that particular style of metal, and I know that if I was looking for something deep and meaningfull, I wouldn't bother sticking on the likes of Hammerfall. So, I think if you were expecting to find intelligent lyrics in hair-metal, then you really are barking up the wrong tree.

There's always going to be rubbish lyrics, but I don't see how you can really critisize a cheesy band's musing if they're cheesy, because generally that's the very thing they're trying to acheive in the first place. But there's plenty of great rock/metal bands out there with equaly great lyrics, Opeth, My Dying Bride, Green Carnation, Anathema and so on.

And I dont agree that only certain themes are suited to rock/metal.

fish-head

Some fantastic lyricists; Joe Strummer, Paul Weller,
John Lennon, Tim Armstrong, KathleenHanna,
Jesse Michaels.

They provide us with insightful and delightful lyrics.
Hey! Im a poet!

MarkMI6

Yes a lot of rock/metal lyrics over the years have been quite appalling, but in the long run it's one of the key elements that set a forgettable band apart from a great band. The likes of Ed Vedder, Mark Lanegan, Paul Westerberg and Chris Cornell will go down as having written some bloody brilliant lyrics and made some bloody brilliant music. The likes of Limp Park, Limp Biscuit, with their middle class depictions of poverty, and so on will be remembered as an unfortunate trend for 14 year-old kiddies to listen to when their parents tell them to go to their room and clean the damn place.

Crucifix

There are many fine lyricists in the world of metal. And anyway, I've always liked songs that tell a story (whether the story involves dragons or not), or lyrics that are just plain strange.
At the end of the day, good lyrics are just a happy bonus to any good song.

cournioni

Mike Muir (Suicidal Tendencies) = Great lyricist

mike65

Neil Peart, Pete Townshend, Geoff Tate, Roger Waters and the like will always be a minority. Most rock music is simple 4/4 time shagging/jumping/air-guitar music.

Nothing wrong with that. Truth is lyrics are less important than the tune. Its the tune you listen to not the words. Most of the time.

Mike.

ST

What defines "Good Lyrics" do they have to be meaningful or have a message?

IMO good lyrics don't. Good lyrics have to tell a story and tell it well.

Take Les Claypool (Primus) most of their songs just tell a story (generally about nothing important), but the story is told well. The lyrics are good.

What about ACDC's Big Balls? Tongue in cheek but Good lyrics!

I agree with PORNAPSTER; Mike Muir (Suicidal Tendencies) = Great lyricist]
Is Geoff Tate the lead singer with QUEENSRYCHE? If so another fine lyricist alright.

With some metal, it's hard to make out the lyrics!!! It helps if you can understand them.

I agree the tune is important because if you don't like the tune you won't listen to the lyrics but I also think if the lyrics are crap you won't listen to the song again and again.

mike65

Originally posted by ST

Is Geoff Tate the lead singer with QUEENSRYCHE? If so another fine lyricist alright.

With some metal, it's hard to make out the lyrics!!! It helps if you can understand them.

I agree the tune is important because if you don't like the tune you won't listen to the lyrics but I also think if the lyrics are crap you won't listen to the song again and again.

Geoff tate is the Queensryche warbler, as for crap lyrics equalls no more listens the charts say different!

Mike.

ST

Yes, but who takes the charts seriously?

nadir

you said it AW

Karl Hungus

Originally posted by mike65
Most rock music is simple 4/4 time shagging/jumping/air-guitar music.

You say 4/4 time as if it's a bad thing? As much as I like the use of interesting timings, nothing irks me as much as when a band just 'Widdles' about with as many different timings as possible in a "Hey, look what we can do! Aren't we great!?" sense.

But there's more to a song than the timing mike. I mean, lets compare a 3/4 minute song that follows a simply start/verse/chorus/verse/chorus/verse/end type song structure to a song that doesn't follow the set standard, and progresses.

I think a song with an interesting structure that takes the listening somewhere is far more important than different rythms.
Would you not agree?

Doctor J

Originally posted by PORNAPSTER
Mike Muir (Suicidal Tendencies) = Great lyricist

Exactly what I was going to say.

I think Metal has been blessed by some excellent lyricists, primarily because it's not all "boy loves girl - girl loves boy" repetitiveness found in other forms of music. Metal lyrics can deal with subjects other forms of music wouldn't go near in a fit.

projectmayhem

fred durst writes inspiring lyrics..........

Zoton

For some good lyrics try Art Alexakis (Everclear), obviously Maynard James Keenan, also good for lyrics are Dave Wyndorf, Serj Tankian, and sometimes Billie Joe Armstrong.

mr_angry

I think when it comes to metal that the music is far more important than the lyrics - especially the first few times that you listen to a particular song. Of course, the vocals of the song are very important in determining the melody, but what's actually being said doesn't come into it until you've listened to the song many times.

Aren't we leaving someone out though? Busted! Where else could we find true rock & roll lyrics about fancying your teacher. It's like a 21st century version of "Hot for Teacher"...

Pugsley

Originally posted by AngelWhore
I think a song with an interesting structure that takes the listening somewhere is far more important than different rythms.
Would you not agree?

Thats exactly why opeth are so damn good

ferdi

Originally posted by fish-head
Joe Strummer, Tim Armstrong

bingo

mike65

Originally posted by AngelWhore


I think a song with an interesting structure that takes the listening somewhere is far more important than different rythms.
Would you not agree?

I do, I listen to Miles Davis and Kraftwerk!

Mike.

Sarky

There are good and bad lyricists everywhere.

I like the words to most AC/DC songs. They get their message across perfectly. Sex IS nice, Alcohol IS tasty, Rock'n'roll DOES sound fantastic...

Everyone has their moments. Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, AC/DC, three very big bands- They've all written some very good lyrics, but they've also written some utter pap. Then again, if the music is good enough, you won't care about the words... I tend to focus more on the SOUND of the singer, not what he's saying. Rock and metal are raw emotion in sonic form. Words don't have to matter. If they're good words, then it's an added bonus...

freakydeadgirl

for me in order for the song to be good everything has to work together. the lyrics have to fit with the music and the music has to have some querks to stay interesting.
for the most part i don't think that a band can have all good songs, it's just not logically possiable.
i've gotten to the point that i can ignore the lyrics and just listen to the music or vise versa for the songs that are ony good in one area

Cheez

Je know Monster Magnet?
Kinda in between the cheese and the intellect imo
There's some gud writing in there,loads a cheesey, one foot on the monitor guitar solo's too! Fun!

I cant think of anythin else
Oh yea tool are just like WOW

Pugsley

Originally posted by freakydeadgirl
for the most part i don't think that a band can have all good songs, it's just not logically possiable.

In Flames did.............. then they released Reroute to Remain....