Charter Updated: Off-Topic Advocacy

dahamsta

Note that I've updated the charter for this forum with the following:

No Off-Topic Advocacy: When someone asks a question about their current browser/mailer/etc, either answer the question or don't post. If they want an alternative, they'll ask for it. Off-topic advocacy will be sent to the Recycle Bin.

tman

poo!
people should be warned of how crap ie is & what alternatives there are whenever possible.

OfflerCrocGod

Thats unfair and narrow minded; what if the piece of software is full of spy/addware and someone knows where to get a version of it thats not fu5ked? i.e. Real Player and Real Alternative?. I find these pieces of software mainly because of ppl pointing them out on forums like these, I dont see why ppl should not be enlightened about alternatives to the software THAT IS CAUSING THEM PROBLEMS (hope that was subtle enough).

dahamsta

It's very simple: In most support threads for browser/mailer issues there are more (invariably sycophantic) suggestions for alternative software than there are actual answers, and the answers get buried in the guff. Granted, a number of them are caused by spyware, but not a significant majority. These people come here for answers, not advocacy. Like I said, if people want an alternative, they'll ask for it.

If you have a problem with the Charter, feel free to complain about it in Feedback/Suggestions or Admin/Support. In the meantime, stay on-topic in support threads please.

adam

sceptre

*sceptre approves*

I'll bet people will still be able to get away with a small mention at the bottom of a post that in the main actually tries to solve the problem of the OP. In fairness, answering a question along the lines of "how do I get Internet Explorer to display Widgets natively" with an answer of "hey fool, use Opera or Mozilla" (let's remember I actually use these browsers) or "wipe your hard drive and install Zookie Linux 4.3 or OS/2v5:The Revenge" is hardly helpful. Especially not when it takes over a thread and kills any chance of the OP actually getting an answer. Open-source zealots would whinge if Microsoft zealots (y'all probably call them "Microsoft butt-monkeys") came in and did likewise. There's a line between being helpful and trying to convert people to the Path of Light™ (whatever that may be).

OfflerCrocGod

If there is something out there which is better than what the poster is using; which will give the poster less hastle in daily usage I dont see the problem in mentioning it to the poster. I'm not saying threads should be filled with advocacy - I'm saying that there should be no censorship in regards to ppl giving suggestions as to alternatives. By the way yes the vast majority of posts about IE are about the browser being hijacked or spyware or adware etc... If ppl knew about alternitives they wouldn't ask about them now would they?, it's the ppl who DONT know about alternitives that should be told about them:rolleyes:.

dahamsta

See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. At it's most basic level, the posts were plain and simply off-topic. OfflerCrocGod's post was a troll-whine, and tuxx's post was just plain smart-arsed. Neither contributed anything to the thread, which was supposed to be about helping a user with a specific problem. And by the way, Winters post was left because he tried to help. At least he made an effort, unlike the blind advocacy posts we see far more often.

Like I said, if you have a problem with the addition, take it to Feedback/Suggestions. The admins can override me if they agree with you and I won't complain. They might take you up on it just to see me not complaining...

adam

OfflerCrocGod

Originally posted by dahamsta
See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. At it's most basic level, the posts were plain and simply off-topic. OfflerCrocGod's post was a troll-whine, and tuxx's post was just plain smart-arsed.

Listen buddy YOU'RE the one who is making up these rules I posted that because what Winters said IS againts the rules the rules YOU came up with. tuxx has absolutely nothing to do with me - but the gist of what he saying (that IE is an unsafe browser to use on the net for the average user) is the truth - tuxx by the way was not endorsing any specific alternitive he was just deriding IE; his post is not a valid example of what you are on about.

dahamsta

Feedback / Suggestions

Would you like someone to hold your hand on the way over?

Frank Grimes

It's fair enough adding that to the charter.
Most people who are asking questions about IE etc. are people who just want to look at websites and not worry about having to install other stuff to do that.
I use the alternatives myself but I don't see why people should constantly feel the need to ram the fact they use them down other people's throats.
Also, as has been stated in some of these threads, problems with IE can start affecting Windows too seeing as it's an "integral" component of Windows, so installing and running Lynx instead won't be the magic fix.
Same goes for the odd "install Linux/OpenBSD/Solaris" fixes for Windows problems. Maybe people just want to get Windows working again. They don't *have* to care about the alternatives.

dahamsta

True. I think a lot of my annoyance stems from the fact that IE and OE/O2K can be perfectly safe if they're set up correctly and used with a little common sense, and personally I think that they're pretty good clients. (Although I would have to concede that they're falling behind a little these days.)

I don't like Opera because I find the interface cluttered, not very usable, and not very pleasing to the eye. I used to like the old Netscape, but I've found the project directionless since it went open source. I like Firefox but little things about it bug me, ditto Thunderbird.

Some people will like them, some won't, and I have no problem with people advocating them as long as that's what the thread is about (like the "best browser" thread) or they at least make an effort to answer the thread starter's question (like winters did). That's not what's been happening though.

All that being said, I'll eventually move over to Firefox and Thunderbird anyway, because I want to move to Linux on the desktop and it's really starting to get there.

adam

SantaHoe

What's your policy on pimping browsers in your sig then?
And saaayyy.... just posting "LOL!" just so people can read your sig?
I probably wouldn't be using Mozilla now if it hadn't been for the constant brainwashing from the boards browser-pimps.
I see your point though, it's like suggesting someone with a Win98 problem switch to another OS, curing the disease by killing the patient (to quote Dr. Beverly Crusher from Star Trek).

dahamsta

I don't see sigs. If they obey the general Boards rules, I honestly couldn't give a toss what you do with them. Dear god, if you have talent feel free to follow mine and contribute to our cause in a creative sort of mannerish...

dahamsta

Originally posted by sceptre
"wipe your hard drive and install Zookie Linux 4.3 or OS/2v5:The Revenge"

Sceptre, you're banned. You can witter sarcastic commentage all you like, but Zookie Linux 4.3 Os2v5 The Revenge is the best OS out there, and I'll bear no disagreetiffle on the subtopicfurdle whatsoeverage! You should be tuesday for your doubleplustalkcleverminus!

Arsefindle wickdo!

adam "difflewink++" beecher, c4 lts rgts rsrvd

sixpack's little hat

mods shouldn't be allowed drunken-post!

down with this sort of thing

dahamsta

I resemble that remark.