Banks and Mortgages

wexfordman

Been looing at my banking fees recently, and was unpresently surprised to find that I am being Ripped OFF!!!!

My Current account, for the pleasure of letting BOI earn interest on my wages, costs me a whopping 145 euro a yr (not including government taxes on laser card etc).

Well says I, we'll see about that, and I started to shop around. I am now in the process of switching to one of a few banks that offer free banking (Ulster bank), I know there are others, but this simple move is going to save me 150 odd quid a yr!!!!!. I've been with BOI for nearly 10yrs, so thats 1500 yoyo's if you average it out..

Then, while I was looking at my bank acount, I looked at me mortgage. Jaysus, I was being ripped off here too. (I tell ye, watch yer backs). 3.55% variable with ICS. Ulster bank were offering 2.85 (tracker), and they's pay for the privelage of me becomming a customer, meaning I could switch for free.

Well, I says, i'm gonna ring ICS and give them a piece of my mind and tell em where to stick there 3.55%. "What Interest rate would you like ?, says the ICS lady on the end of the phone. 2.85% says I. We'll see what we can do, says she.......

Two days later (after the weekend), I get back on to biddy in ICS, who says, we'll give ye 3% sor. No says I, yell give me better. Okay says she, 2.9%. Fair enough says I, sold.!!!!

That little conversation alone saved me about 50 yoyo's a month for the next 20 od yrs (about 12,000 euros when all is said and done).

When I got thinking about it I got really mad, thinking those feckers will charge you to the hilt for as long as they think they will get away with it (mortgage and current account etc), and only do do something when you threaten em.

This all came about after reading an article in the Independent last week, saying cheaper tracker mortgages were available, but most existing customers dont get the chance to swap to them unless they yell and shout and threaten.

Anyone on a variable rate should chance it with their bank to see if the can get a lower rate, and if not, vote with your feet. I dont thnk we realise how valuable our custom is to these big banks. Its them that owe us, not the other way around.

Those two steps above saved me about 650 quid a year. Thats better in muy pocket than BOI's and ICS.

Wexfordman

Genghis

Very interesting, Wexfordmn. BOI are a bit of a rip-off for charges alright (especially since most transactions are now self-service - IMHO the way they have shifted us all into doing our own banking and not at the counter has been the main reason for their highly profitable Irish operations).

On the mortgage thing - Do ICS offer a tracker mortgage similar to Ulster Bank as well? I mean, did they move you to another mortgage product that they also offer, or did they leave your mortgage as is and simply reduce the rate. Do you think they will maintain the same rate into the future, or do you think if mortgage rates rose by 0.25% tomorrow, that they would raise you to 3.8% or 3.15%?

Must check ou my own lender, now!

sovtek

No sh1te. I hate it when that lady comes and asks me "Are you ok" while I'm in the queue for the teller. Yes I always say and then continue to stare at her.
It's like they want everyone to use the express lodgement so they don't have to actually hire people.
Then they continue to increase their fees whilst offering less customer service.
I remember ayears ago the ATM's were sold as a way to cut costs and therefore translate into cheaper banking. It's certainly cut costs but it hasn't gotten cheaper to bank.
Then they act like they are doing you a favor when you try to open a bank account. I've never seen a bank in any other country in the western world try to discourage you from opening an account.
Why shouldn't we go back to leaving it under the mattress?

wexfordman

Genghis,

From my conversation with ICS at the time, they do offer a tracker mortgage, but the rate was 3.49%, as opposed to their standard variable rate of 3.55%. Not much of a difference, and very bad when compared to Ulster banks and other banks tracker rate.

The deal I managed to get with ICS, is not one that the "offer", but one that you have to turn around and demand, or threaten to mover your business elsewhere, and that is the only reason I got the rate they gave, which is 2.9%. This is rate is one which I managed to arrange with them myself, by threateing to take my business elsewhere if they did not offer a better rate.

The first offer they came back with was 3%, and I said not good enough, and then they came back with 2.9%. This is a tracker mortgage, which they have said will stick to .9% of ecb rate for the lifetime of the mortgage. That is, if ECB rate goes from 2% (which it is today), to 2.5%, then my new mortgage rate will move too 2.5% +.9%, which is 3.4%. If the ECB rate falls to 1.5%, then my tracker will become 1.5% + .9%, which is 2.4%.

I'm no expert, but basically, it seems to me, that variable rate mortgages are a bad deal when compared to trackers, if you can negotiate the right level.

It all depends on your personal situation, and how good you are at playing poker. What I would do, is ring Ulsterbank, see what they will offer you, and then play this against your existing bank to negotiate a better deal. Again, I'm no mortgage expert, so do your homework on all of this, and make the decision on your own basis, or get some professional advice. The trump card in all of this, is if Ulsterbank are offering lower rates, and agree to pay your switching fees, then it gives you a good hand when dealing with your existing bank.

Wexfordman

Wexfordman

slave1

am looking around for best mortgage and am leaning towards First Active and their Current Account Mortgage which looks good.

Anyone gone for this and seen the benefits?

Also, what's their internet banking like, paying bills, switching funds etc

Cheers

Genghis

Thanks for that wexfordman, you certainly go t a good deal. My bank is EBS, and I read at the weekend that they are about to offer the lowest mortgage rate on the market - both to new applicants, but also to existing holders. Apparently bing the cheapest is their traditional pitch in the market, but they have been undermined by Bank of Scotland, First Active and other innovations such as the Ulster Bank product you mention. I am going to leave it a couple of weeks and see, if not I will take your advice and see what I can achieve!

LFCFan

I switched from Permanent TSB to Ulster Bank back in August and got the Tracker rate of 1.05% above ECB. Should all tracker rates, even for existing customers be at the new rate of .85% above the ECB? Better give 'em a ring myself. Of course when I changed to them they weren't offering free legal fees. Typical. I always do stuff a wee bit too early and miss out on great deals

spongebob

Originally posted by wexfordman
Well, I says, i'm gonna ring ICS and give them a piece of my mind and tell em where to stick there 3.55%. "What Interest rate would you like ?, says the ICS lady on the end of the phone. 2.85% says I. We'll see what we can do, says she.......

Two days later (after the weekend), I get back on to biddy in ICS, who says, we'll give ye 3% sor. No says I, yell give me better. Okay says she, 2.9%. Fair enough says I, sold.!!!!

Wexfordman

1. Congrats

2. I am assuming that the outstanding balance on your Mortgage was about ....... 2.5 Times your income and no more than 3 times and that your outstanding Mortgage is 60% of the current value of the house ........ As you saved €50 on a .6% drop I assume

a) Your mortgage is c. €100k (or less)
b) Your income is €35k (or more)
c) Your gaff is worth €180k (or more)

Yer 4 times main income and 90% mortgage kinda geezer wont get a tracker deal like that.

3. You stayed with the same bank so NOOOooo legal fees. Good one. .85% or .9% over the base trackers are always the best deal around if you can get them . Your fees for switching woulda been €500 at least ....or all the first years savings .

M

kida

Yer 4 times main income and 90% mortgage kinda geezer wont get a tracker deal like that

We are with BOI and again kicked up stink and got reduced to a tracker mortgage. This was after our initial 1 year bonus rate was over. So the details or LTV ratio hadn't changed much.

Bottom line is they have discretion if they want your business.

spongebob

My sister in law got a tracker of 1.0% (or 1.1%) over base from BoI on an 80% LTV ...her income multiple was 4 times (a quarter) of the outstanding amount. She had to pay €100 to a valuer on the BoI panel to establish that the value of the house was what she said it was but the payback for that would have been 2 or 3 months or so ISTR and therefore well worth spending.

That was last year.

M

wexfordman

1. Congrats

Soory Muck, your figures are a little out, I'm not in that good a position, although I am a fair bit into my mortgage. But anyway, my point was, that there are better deals out there, and its about time people started realising, how valuablew our custom is to the banks, not the other way round.

If ulsterbank are willing to pay your legal fees to get your custom, and still offer a cheaper rate than other banks, then we must be worth something to them. Imagine the proft the other fellas are making, if Ulsterbank can make a profit on thier offers.

I think Ulsterbank are still offering the best deal for trackers in excess of 60% value of the property (theres olnly about 0.1% in the difference between <60% LTV).

A phone call and some guts can save you thousands.

On top off that, why not look at your current account charges also....... MOst banks charge silly money for the privelage of holding your dosh for you, and earning interest off it..... But a few offer free banking. I looked at mine, and BOI chanrged my over 140quid in fees last year, and I dont go overdrawn. I've changed to a bank that offers freee bankgin, and saved myself 150quid a year!!!. Better in my pocket than BOI's

The problem is people dont want the hassle, or dont realise the other options are available, but you can easily save your self 100's just by standing up for yourself.

Wexfordman

spongebob

Originally posted by wexfordman
Sorry Muck, your figures are a little out, I'm not in that good a position,

Thats excellent news then. The original tracker on the Irish market was

2.5 Times Main Income
No more than 60% loan (against the Current value of the house aka LTV )
1% over the Base rate = 1% + 2% or 3% at present

That was National Irish about 3 years ago.

As there are far more tracker products out there nowadays you can obviously get sub 3% at a higher income multiple and/or LTV . Most people have 80% LTV or less.

Most Banks now have a tracker, get on to yours.

M

Tommy Vercetti

Originally posted by wexfordman

Well says I, we'll see about that, and I started to shop around. I am now in the process of switching to one of a few banks that offer free banking (Ulster bank), I know there are others, but this simple move is going to save me 150 odd quid a yr!!!!!. I've been with BOI for nearly 10yrs, so thats 1500 yoyo's if you average it out..

I think that's the U First account, it's "free" after you pay them €8 per month, you'll still save though, and there are some other "benefits". I've been meaning to change from AIB to them for ages, but I'm just too lazy to go changing all my direct debits and all that stuff.

LFCFan

There are a few things that would make me reluctant to move my current account:

1. The hassle of moving all my DD, Standing Orders etc etc
2. My Credit History with my Bank is such that they practically beg me to borrow money off them. I'd be afraid to lose that facility
3. Nearly all my online money transfers are to other BOI accounts which means the money is transferred immediatly. Moving to Ulster Bank would mean a 3 working day delay when transferring money.

If these weren't an issue I'd change straight away.

wexfordman

Tommy,

You are only slightly correct about the U-First accoiunt. I looked into this, and the only advantage I can see to having one of these, is if you are looking for an overdraft (350euro free with u-first), or you have a mortgage with Ulsterbank also, as they will give you a discounted interest rate. For 8quid a month, its still a good deal, and would still be only 96quid a year compared to 145quid of charges last year with BOI.

In anycase, dont be confused, the U-first account is not as you correctly state free banking as there is the monthly fee, but a standard curent account with Ulsterbank is FREE, with no transaction charges, as long as you are in credit. Thats not a bad deal when compared to banks that charge you every time your atm or lasercard gets run through a machine!!!

So transaction FEE free banking with Ulsterbank will save you money (as long as you stay in credit). There are some charges (nothings all good news is it), for setting up DD's etc, but these kind of things should be rare enough (except when opening the account), to make them insignifficant.

To go one further, NIB actually offer free banking also, as long as you stay in credit. They do seem to offer a better deal however, as they dont charge for DD setups etc, I minght have gone to them had I known at the time, but will stick with Ulsterbank now, as I've completed all the setups etc, and there would be no advantage to switching again.

With regards to people saying they could'nt be bothered with the hassle, well each to their own, but a minor amount of hassle to save you hundreds of euro is worht it. You could also try ringing up ytour existing bank and suggesting they do something about your charges or you'll go elsewhere, I've heard that works in some instances also.

LFC, Credit rating with your existing bank ?, well if you want to pay for the priveleage of the bank "offering" you money, then good luck to you.

To my mind, this is as much about sticking it to the ripoff merchants as anything else. Why on earth is it better to have some corporate giant of a bank take your money off of you for doing nothing!!!!

I've been doing a little experimenting over the last couple of weeks, and looking at bank charges, mortgage rates, mortgage protection, house insurance bin charges etc, and I have found that with each and every one of these products, I am being screwed to the wall. If anyone wnats to take the attitude (as I always have), that these thiings are too complicated or not worth the hassle, then take a reading of the next post, and I will give an example of how I was being ripped off. DOnt want to drag this one on.

Wexfodman

wexfordman

If you want to stop yourselves being ripped off, then look into a few of the things below, there is some serious mney to be saved, not just a few quid here and there.

Mortage
As discussed above, wont go into it, you can force your mortgage provider to give you a cheaper rate. Mine went from 3.55% to 2.9%.

Mortgage Protection
I just went shopping around on the net last friday, to see what kind of prices were about, and maybe reduce my current rate. I actually got a quote which was MORE than 50% CHEAPER than my existing Mortgage protection. Whats more, it was from the same bloody company that I am with at the moment!!!. Needles to say, they are in the process of reducing my fees. This will go from 41euro per month, to 17 euro, and wiht the exact same cover!!!!! Wheels in motion to get this done.

Banking.
Already discussed a fair amount in previous posts, but banking fees for current accounts can be well in excess of 100 euro, particularly when some banks like to charge you for every time you want to get at your OWN MONEY. Switch to a free banking service llike Ulsterbank or NIB, or at least ring your existing bank and demand/threaten that they do something.

House Insurance
Did the same thing with my house insurance, and got a quote with the exact same cover, that was almost 90 euro cheaper..... Again, from the same friggin company I am with at the moment!!!! Wheels in motion.....

Phone
Switching my phone service to Esat BT. I now this really depends on your usage, but 25euors for unlimeted local national calls. Thats gonna save me big time.

Bins
This one may not suit all, but I've scrapped my bin collections (400quid a year), and started to recycle and compost etc. We now have reduced our waste, and take the rubbish to the dump pourselves about once a month (there's not much to go, if you can recycle a lot).


It might sound like a lot of effort to do the above, but its not really, and you can save yourself a fortune. I never realised how much I was being ripped off, by so many companies until I started looking into it. There may be lots of other people in the same situation, but dont realise it, or dont see how much they can save by doning something about it.

i promise I wont go on and on anymore, but just to illistrate, here is a rough breakdown of how it affected me, and can affect practically any homeowner/mortgage holder:-

Morgate rate:- 3.55 to 2.9%, saving approx 500 euro per year, same company!!
Mortgage protection:- 41 euro to 17 euro per month, saving 288 euro per year, same company!!!
House insurance, same cover, 90 euor cheaper, same company!!!!
Banking, BOI to Ulster bank, annual transaction fees, 145euro to 0, saving 145 per yr.
Thats 1035euro per year, saved!!!! and the only hassle factor, was the change of bank. Three of the items above, were reduced without having to change provider!!!

Someone tell me that they would rather avoid the hassle than save over a grand a year!!!!

Wexfordman

HelterSkelter

Originally posted by wexfordman
I am now in the process of switching to one of a few banks that offer free banking (Ulster bank),

Is it totally free? Their site says "transaction free banking" so I presume it's free to deposit/withdraw money. But do they still charge a quarterly maintenance fee?

Tommy Vercetti

ahh wexfordman has persuaded me to drop into National Irish Bank and/or Ulster Bank on Friday to set the wheels in motion....I've had an urge to tell AIB where to stick their poxy fees for years now....I'll buy you a pint from my savings

davej

Financial institutions really are taking advantage of the Irish tendency not to shop around / fear of change. It's sickening when you see some of them reporting massive record profits into the billions.

davej

JTMan

I am now in the process of switching to one of a few banks that offer free banking (Ulster bank),

my bank STILL has not spotted that I am not a student (completly free banking) ... 4 years after finishing in college

Tommy Vercetti

Originally posted by Fungus
my bank STILL has not spotted that I am not a student (completly free banking) ... 4 years after finishing in college

I *think* some banks give free banking for about 7 or 8 years from the date you opened the account...I know cos I started being charged fees after that amount of time.

wexfordman

Is it totally free? Their site says "transaction free banking" so I presume it's free to deposit/withdraw money. But do they still charge a quarterly maintenance fee?

For Ulsterbank, I figure they mean transaction free as you said above, but they do charge for certain things, i.e setting up direct debits etc (again this is for the standard free banking account), there is no quarterly charge. Cant remember the fee for setting up DD's and standing orders etc, but its only a couple of euro, and something you do when setting up the account, and rarely after that. So yes, there are some charges, but I reckon, afdter initial set up, I will have free banking once dd's etc are set up, as most people would have also (unless you set up DD's for a hobby).


NIB as far as I know dont charge for setting up DD's etc, i missed this when signing up, and maybe woul dhave gone to them if I had known, but there is no difference once I have everything up and running, and UB's internet banking looks to be quite good (quicken and msmoney compatable).


Finally, just had another "Score" with the banks. Rang up my visa card (AIB).and said I wanteed a cheaper rate or else I walk....... (was looking for 10.4% which was the cheapest competitor). They came back and said they cant match it at the moment, but will give me 2.9% for the next six months, and hope to be able to offer something better then!!!!!.

Was going to switch to UB, but not worth it for the time being, saving myself 11% interest, and 40 euro gov tax!!!!.

Wexfordman

Going to start putting notches in the leg of my desk for every thing I claw back from the bastards.

nlgbbbblth

Ulster Bank's regular current account - free if in credit i.e. no transaction fees

sadly from May onwards there will be a minimum balance requirement of €500 at all times to avail of no quarterly fees

Pataman

Lads, speaking of mortgages, get yourselves a copy of mortgage advisor www.othersoft.co.za this prog ahs saved my thousands, literally. Was on a standard mortgage with ulster bank, changed to a tracker, and worked out by putting an extre €200approx per month off my mortgage I have knocked 6 years of it and saved tens of thousands in interest.

ednwireland

ulster bank now decided its not making enough money and sending out letters to my accounts saying i have to keep 500 euro in it not to get charged transaction charges on the account. this is for standard current account, why is it irish companies always price upwards competition never seems to drive prices downwards do they all sit in a pub and decide what they are going to charge ? surely ulster bank could get lots of customers if they advertised a free service

BendiBus

Originally posted by ednwireland
why is it irish companies always price upwards competition never seems to drive prices downwards do they all sit in a pub and decide what they are going to charge ? surely ulster bank could get lots of customers if they advertised a free service

If you've actually been reading all the mortgage threads you'll know that competition most definitely IS driving rates down.

Any company could get loads of money by offering a free service. But they wouldn't stay in business for long.

spongebob

Originally posted by Pataman
Lads, speaking of mortgages, get yourselves a copy of mortgage advisor www.othersoft.co.za this prog ahs saved my thousands, literally. Was on a standard mortgage with ulster bank, changed to a tracker, and worked out by putting an extre €200approx per month off my mortgage I have knocked 6 years of it and saved tens of thousands in interest.

Overpaying, especially early on, can make a huge difference and is highly recommnded if you have the spondulacks .

The BEST mortgage calculator ON THE PLANET is Karl Jeacles one that has been around for years ( at least 7 if not 8 I'd say) , is free, is very well laid out and is available for personal use Here .

( you must permit Java Applets to run in your browser)

M