What do you think of the IRA?

Oriel

Sorry if this has been brought up before.
It's just that I was talking about this with 2 other (Catholic) housemates there today.
One (grew up in Ardoyne, Belfast) said they did a lot of good in his area, protecting the familes from the RUC (nka PSNI).
The other (grew up in Clough Mills, another IRA central) said they aren't doing "the cause" any good at all, a point being the fact that the majority of them don't even go to mass or have religous beliefs at all - and that it's all about politics not religion at all. Which I believe also.

Personally, I think any active members of the IRA are worthless scum, and should be shot where they stand. But I guess that's just an opinion. I'm a Catholic, and have more Protestant friends than Catholc friends. I've been brought up to be more mature than to bring things down to that level.

Is the IRA doing any good at all? (Ignoring the thosands of competely innocent lives of course).

/edit - the guy from Clough Mills. His uncle was in the IRA for one reason only - they used to get the males in the "discos" (back then) drag them outside saying more or less "Are you going to join us or not?" It was a case of "join us or you're getting a beating here and now, which is it?".

Agent Smith

a shower of wanker's imo.




(yes i am cathlioc and i think there should be a 32 county republic)

Oriel

Just a few examples, which I wish didn't exist.


Stephen Lynn (30) Protestant
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Irish Republican Army (IRA)
Shot while renovating house, Upper Crumlin Road, Belfast. Previous owner of the house was the intended target.

Kenneth Lynn (28) Protestant
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Irish Republican Army (IRA)
Shot while renovating house, Upper Crumlin Road, Belfast. Previous owner of the house was the intended target.

Ian Sproule (23) Protestant
Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Irish Republican Army (IRA)
Shot outside his parents' home, Liskleen Road, Killen, Castlederg, County Tyrone.

Samuel McCrum (62) Protestant
Status: Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC), Killed by: Irish Republican Army (IRA)
Off duty. Shot at his wife's shop, Antrim Street, Lisburn, County Antrim.

Peter Ryan (35) Catholic
Status: Irish Republican Army (IRA), Killed by: British Army (BA)
Shot during ambush by undercover British Army (BA) members, while driving through Coagh, County Tyrone.

Ruairi Finnis (21) Catholic
Status: Irish Republican Army (IRA), Killed by: Irish Republican Army (IRA)
Found shot behind row of shops, Central Drive, Creggan, Derry. Alleged informer.

Gerard Burns (37) Catholic
Status: Irish National Liberation Army (INLA), Killed by: Irish National Liberation Army (INLA)
Found shot at the back of house, New Barnsley Park, Ballymurphy, Belfast. Alleged informer.

Francis Ryan (25) Catholic
Status: Irish Republican Army (IRA), Killed by: Irish Republican Army (IRA)
Died in premature explosion while carrying bomb along St Peter's Street, St. Albans, Herts. England.

kopijack

There is bad on both sides...

has it moved from religion to politics? I would say it has.


I get the feeling that people are starting to get fed up with all of it....Well a lot of the young people in Derry that I know.


It will go on.

What about the UVF and LVF? they are no saints

Doctor J

There is evil on both sides, it doesn't matter whether your protestant, catholic, hindu, whatever

Any terrorist deserves eternal suffering and I'd include a terrorist in a uniform. There is no need for murder on this island.

Besdies, aren't they (nationalist and unionist terrorists) all about drugs these days?

SheroN

It hasn't been about religon for many many years.

rs

I'd like to see Ireland as a 32 county country.

However, then I see adults shouting and throwing things at children on their way to school on the news. No-one who behaves like that should be allowed call themselves Irish. I don't think I want the north back.

I think at this stage Nothern Ireland should become a country on it's own. Then they can work together and make it great, or destroy each other. There should be no option of being either part of the UK or Ireland. If they are not British or Irish anymore, they'll just have to figure out what they are for themselves.

And all the terrorists (whatever gang they belong to), what have they ever accomplished? How have they made the situation in the North any better?

They haven't.

Simple as that.

The_Goose

Originally posted by Doctor J

Besdies, aren't they (nationalist and unionist terrorists) all about drugs these days?

Selling them or stopping them??

I ve never lived in the north, or come into contact with any situation up there(thank god), but down in the south in the bally back arse of no where there's a group of grown men with ra tattoo's and where their celtic jersey's 365 days a year!!
who beleave in death to the queen, ****in pros's and alll that, but have never been to the north and wouldn't have a clue what a gun look's like!! These people are the problem i think, who immortalise the ira and beleave them to be hero's!!!
They had a purpose, when the black and tan's were terrorising the country, but there is no need for them anymore, and same goes for the rest!!!
We have our freedom there is no way in hell we re gettin 32 counties so live and let live!!! Maybe if the country concentrated on running what it has the place wouldn't be goin to hell!!!!!
RIP IRA UVF etc.

hedgetrimmer

Sure, in about 20-20 years, Europe will be one state... what will happen to the 26/32 issue then?

cournioni

The way things are going in the north hedgetrimmer, it'll be a race issue at that stage. I think that is what will be focused on, rather than the Protestant/Catholic thing.

ferdi

She went away for the holidays
Said she's going to LA
But she never got there
She never got there,
She never got there, they say

The IRA took my baby away
They took her away, away from me
The IRA took my baby away
They took her away, away from me

yellum

Originally posted by hedgetrimmer
Sure, in about 20-20 years, Europe will be one state... what will happen to the 26/32 issue then?

In 20 years there'll be a catholic majority in Northern Ireland.

elexes

personaly im fed up with hearing about all the probloms in the north . if it could be made its own country with seperate laws etc. away from the political force of the republic and the uk id be much happier . i used to think that it would be better if the north was part of the republic . now im not so sure

tho it dose give me ids on how to solve the northern problom and some world health issues tho .. but the human rights groups would go ape if they done what im thinking .....

oooo evil thoughts

Doctor J

I wonder how many of these 'catholics' are/will be catholics because they believe the tenets of catholicism and follow it's laws or because they are ill-informed about protestanism and just see marches and union jacks. How many of these celtic shirted catholics actually attend mass every sunday and worship God and Jesus and live their lives in accordance with the scriptures?

The same goes for the 'protestants'.

Where does it say a catholic has to be a nationalist and a protestant has to be a unionist?

User45701

I understand them and why they do what they do.
I just dont understand why they and other orginasations on the other side both should just target oneanother that way no civy caustualty

Epitaph

Originally posted by Doctor J
Where does it say a catholic has to be a nationalist and a protestant has to be a unionist?

Very true, I think Parnell was Protestant.

And all the Ra/Me Feiners should be put in a deep hole and smothered with dirt and Loyalist paramilitaries, IMO.

Re the drugs issue: I think an awful lot of IRA members are involved in drug running and protection racketeering at the moment. Supposed to be generating funds for "The Cause" but are just lining their pockets with the proceeds of human misery.

/hires contractors to build a big hole

SheroN

wolfe tone was a protestant...as was robert emett.

Macseamusa

does anyone else feel that this is old.... just let the british rule it, end all this ****, this murder, whats the point, we will all know that northern ireland is part of ireland even if its ruled by someone else.

Doctor J

Yep, just cut it off, drag it into the Atlantic and say "We'll be sinking this on 19 March, those of you who think this shytty piece of earth is worth dying for, tie yourself to something heavy"


A united Ireland is a pipe dream. Does it really matter or is it just some romantic bullshyt fed into us from birth (and vice versa for our unionist northern brothers and sisters)?

I mean, so Bertie and his crew of eeejits gets to screw up an extra six counties. Is that worth killing folk for? Methinks not.

And yes, some of the most prominent Republicans have been Protestant, something the modern bigots tend to overlook.

Exit

Originally posted by Doctor J
Yep, just cut it off, drag it into the Atlantic and say "We'll be sinking this on 19 March, those of you who think this shytty piece of earth is worth dying for, tie yourself to something heavy"

Agree 100%

DeVore

Yup, I always felt the border on the map was Gods outline for where the scissors-cut was to go.

Gerry Adams is as smart as Ian Paisley is pretty and vice versa.

Thank god for soft drugs, young people are now too loved up or stoned to bother getting involved. Hurrah for political apathy!

DeV.

jesus_thats_gre

I think we are lucky enough to say the IRA is pretty much something of the past. While I do not agree with the killing of innocent lives, or any lives at that fact, I do recognise the work they done to earn us our own nation. Of course I am talking about the Offical IRA and partly the Provisional IRA. Down here in the Republic we will never really see what good the IRA really done during the 60's, 70', 80's or 90's as half of it is exaduarated propoganda.

The initial post mentioned something about some IRA members not practising their religion. I really think this is pretty much irrelevent to be honest. The modern "struggle" came from a religous minority (practising or not) being descriminated against by the religious (practising or not) majority. People like Ian Paisley played on peoples fears and exadurated the meaning of any involvement of the Irish goverment to gain support for his party/beliefs. The vast majority of people in Northern Ireland have always wanted peace and equality, but it was selfish political leaders that led them down the route which has led to now.

The recent peace iniatives grew out of the peoples desire for peace and the willingness of some political and paramilitary leaders to put their neck out and go against the natural tide of their organisation.


If I don't make sense, apologies my head is dead!


The Real IRA on the other hand are stuck in the past and really need to accept that the world has passed them by

jesus_thats_gre

We couldn't afford the North. The people up there have got used to so much such as virtually free prescriptions and doctor visits, superior infrastructure and so on. I don't think the majority would be willing to give that up and I don't think we would be willing to give it to them.

bdiddy

I agree completely with jesus here. The IRA have served us well and have played a pivitol role in the recent Peace movement(at least i think thats what he/she was sayin). 10 year cease fire anyone? I also think they're right not to disband just yet, they should wait for significant movement from all sides towards the implementation of the agreement(including thier own parts) and if(hopefully when) the agreement is nearing its full implementation and the PSNI is fully established as an equal and efficient police force the IRA should be no more.

Doctor J

By that logic then the UVF are doing "us" a favour too? They haven't 'officially' killed or injured anyone in a while, so they should hang on with their weapons until there's some signicant movement from all sides?

If everybody's hanging on until somebody else does something, what is going to be achieved? :dunno:

The_Goose

All i wouldtake to set the whole thing off again would be one killing of one by the other, and all **** would break lose again!
Hopefully in time the eejit's still holding on to there pipe dreams will die soon and every one up there can live safer live's!
as for the RIRA, renagade's!!

bdiddy

you cant expect the paramilitarys to do all the work, thats why we've got politicans. If the politicans can take the opportunity handed to them by the paramilitarys(from both sides) then i for one would be confident we would see more(or less as you mite want to put it) action from the paramilitarys.

BuffyBot

Murdering scumbags.

But then, the other side wasn't much better.

mike65

Me stunned at the last few posts!

For a glimpse into the provos current mindset listen here-

http://www.rte.ie/rams/radio/latest/Tue/rte-liveline.smil
(fast foward to 18 mins in)

and
http://www.rte.ie/rams/radio/latest/Wed/rte-liveline.smil
from the start.

Mike.

LegacyUser

warrenpoint was gas

Our man in Havana

I don't ever want a 32 county ireland. I would sooner move out if that ever happens. They if they want start an indepandant state free of both UK and Eire.

David-[RLD]-

Well too bad bond-james bond because it is, without a doubt, eventually going to happen, so get packing.

i will probably get flamed for this but it's just what i believe... i think the provisional IRA shouldn't be labelled as terrorists. let's say england invaded the republic tomorrow and loyalists began rioting down here, would you join the IRA or at least fight back? i know i sure as hell would. it's really the same situation in the six counties now imho. the IRA should not disband yet as that leaves nationalist areas perfectly open to loyalist attack, and we all know that the UVF aren't on a cease-fire but the IRA have been for ten years. once we get a United Ireland and peace is achieved (once paisley and his gang are gotten rid of) i think the IRA should either disband or be recruited into the Defence Forces as most of their members are highly skilled tacticians and snipers.

as for the RIRA and CIRA, the lot of them should be shot. the omagh bomb was just sick.

BuffyBot

i will probably get flamed for this but it's just what i believe... i think the provisional IRA shouldn't be labelled as terrorists.

To call anyone who ran a campaign of terror anything other than a terrorist is nothing other than a euphimism.

as for the RIRA and CIRA, the lot of them should be shot. the omagh bomb was just sick.

As opposed to the slightly nicer fluffy little bombs of the IRA which just killed a slightly smaller number of people?

passive

a conversation on the bathroom door in my school:

"IRA, its not a crime to fight for your country"
"it IS a crime to blow up children"
its called collateral damage
"what was the military target on an omagh high street?"
"that was the Real IRA!"
"same thing, **** the IRA"
"**** you for not being a ****ing patriot"
"PATRIOT? **** you, i'd rather ****ing THINK"
"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." -Oscar Wilde

i couldn't make out the last word of the oscar wilde quote til i googled it just there...so i haven't got around to replying for the last week or so

David-[RLD]-

...the US blew up children with their cluster bombs in Iraq, so they must be criminals too

i do not agree with killing children or just placing bombs for the sake of it. the provisional IRA don't place bombs unless there's a good reason (i.e. UVF meetings etc)

yes i'd love everyone to decommission so we can achieve a peaceful 32 county republic but if one side doesn't the other side won't, and we have a vicious circle

Agent Smith

Originally posted by yellum
In 20 years there'll be a catholic majority in Northern Ireland.

been said for Donkeys years......



and not all cathlioc's want a 32 county republic...

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

passive

...the US blew up children with their cluster bombs in Iraq, so they must be criminals too

wow....thats some excellent logic.
so you're implying that because the US are "not" criminals in that situation that the IRA are also "not" criminals for any children they may have blown up?

seriously...well done. i commend you on your amazing powers of reasoning.

the provisional IRA don't place bombs unless there's a good reason

oh right...thats okay then

yes i'd love everyone to decommission so we can achieve a peaceful 32 county republic but if one side doesn't the other side won't, and we have a vicious circle

the problem here is that you're not saying "everyone should stop fighting"...
you're saying "everyone should stop fighting as long the side that i've been raised to believe in is victorious" and THAT is where the vicious circle arises.

if one side did decommission then the other side would eventually have to follow suit (or, as is more likely up there, kill off anybody who had opposed them before)

BuffyBot

the provisional IRA don't place bombs unless there's a good reason (i.e. UVF meetings etc)

??? :rolleyes:

sceptre

Originally posted by David-[RLD]-
i think the provisional IRA shouldn't be labelled as terrorists.

Adequately answered already. if you run a campaign whose point is to terrorise, you're a terrorist.

let's say england invaded the republic tomorrow and loyalists began rioting down here, would you join the IRA or at least fight back?

In the unlikely event of one EU country attacking another EU country and the EU not giving a damn, I might be tempted to give our legitimate armed forces a call and ask what I could do with the weapons I know how to use (a fork and a rusty spoon). They're called the Irish Defence Forces. They're the sole legitimate army in the State. They're there in part to protect me from murderous scum like the rira.

(once paisley and his gang are gotten rid of)

Planning on achieving that through a bullet or a boat ticket to Stranraar?

or be recruited into the Defence Forces

Thanks, you've made me laugh. Had I not just watched Roberto Benigni's Life Is Beautiful I might have been a l;ittle offended by the above remark but I'll just thank you instead.

LegacyUser

Originally posted by sceptre

Adequately answered already. if you run a campaign whose point is to terrorise, you're a terrorist.
[/B]

every side in every armed conflict want to terrorise the enemy , the blitz, carpet bombings of germany, A bombs over Japan, sure look at campaign in Iraq, the whole 'Shock and Awe' campaign, we were told the whole point of the bombimg was to terrorise Saddam and his gang, so following your logic that was a terrorist campaign

Doctor J

Short of Ethnic Cleansing, the unionists are never going away, why do some "Republicans" have such a hard time accepting that? I thought most of us here were above the level of savages.

Without unparallelled bloodshed, there will never be a peaceful 32 county state. It is hugely unlikely such bloodshed would be allowed to happen within the EU, it would devalue the currency too much if nothing else. A line on a map doesn't mean that much to me.

Let it go. The country would only be united if the people are united. That is what a United Ireland means, not a poxy line on a map.

BuffyBot

Originally posted by bananayoghurt
every side in every armed conflict want to terrorise the enemy , the blitz, carpet bombings of germany, A bombs over Japan, sure look at campaign in Iraq, the whole 'Shock and Awe' campaign, we were told the whole point of the bombimg was to terrorise Saddam and his gang, so following your logic that was a terrorist campaign

All of which happened during wars. It doesn't make it any more acceptable, but different.

The Americans didn't plant car bombs (for example - there are many to choose from) at rememberence day services, or when people were out doing their shopping, did they?

Zulu

New IRA - drug dealers, and criminals.
Old IRA - Heros.

David-[RLD]-

Doctor J, most Republicans and I don't want unionists to go away. We just want them to accept the inevitability of a United Ireland. I don't consider unionists to be scum or anything like that. It's just their political opinion and they're fully entitled to it. They can live in a United Ireland as equals if they so choose; that's what the Proclamation guarantees.

BuffyBot, they didn't plant car bombs, but the Americans blew innocent people to bits with missiles while they were shopping, playing, driving, walking, talking, doing average day to day things. It's the same thing. It's still a bomb, but car bombs are just bit a more discreet.

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

LegacyUser

Originally posted by Zulu
New IRA - drug dealers, and criminals.
Old IRA - Heros.

Old IRA did its fair share of civilian killings too you know, lots of informers shot, lots of bypassers shot etc etc

Doctor J

Rubbing out a line on a map doesn't make a country united. Anyone remember Yugoslavia?

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

Zulu

Originally posted by bananayoghurt
Old IRA did its fair share of civilian killings too you know, lots of informers shot, lots of bypassers shot etc etc

I'm aware of that. But there was a legitimate cause.

SheroN

I'm aware of that. But there was a legitimate cause.

what was so different about their cause to the cause of the PIRA?