Garda driver training.

BrianD3

I followed an unmarked patrol car (mondeo) for a few miles today and was unimpressed by the standard of driving. He was the second last car in a queue of about 5 cars. I was the last in the queue. We were travelling on a fairly windy road at about 45-50 mph

Over about 5 miles, I saw his brake lights come on at least 50 times. In that time I braked 0 times. Why the difference? Because I was leaving a decent gap between myself and the car in front, was using anticipation and was adjusting my speed through the use of throttle adjustments and gears. In contrast, he was tailgating and was driving jerkily and erractically. I also saw him making poor use of his indicators.

This isn't the first time I have seen gardai driving poorly. I often wonder what sort of driver training they receive (if any)

I know in the UK there are different classes of police drivers and they receive different levels of training accordingly. Eg Drivers who are involved in pursuits receive a lot of training. They drive powerful cars such as Volvo T5s and Vauxhall Senators. Panda car drivers receive little or no training and drive cars like Fiestas and Astras.

Anyone know what the situation is over here?

BrianD3

uberwolf

I presumed they all received some level of training if they were going to be manning a vehichle, who knows when they may become involved in a pursuit or whatever, just in case. Hardly shocking though to find they don't I guess.

seamus

Afaik, they don't look for particularly safe drivers, but drivers who can keep their cool, and react properly at speeds in excess of 70mph.

I saw a programme on BBC once about their police driver training, and basically, they put the guy in the car, and had him drive really really fast for an extended period of time. The guy was very drained afterwards.

Urban myth about the training of Motorcycle Gardai goes; They prefer guys who've never ridden a bike before, get a big group of them, put them on bikes and then drive them to Donegal at 70mph+. Everyone comes off at least once. A guy even died one year.

Dunno if it's true or not. Anybody?

spockety

Seamus that is NOT true!!!!!!!!

good lord.

Motorcycle Gardai receive training to a very high competency level..

MDR

Not true Seamus,

They do however bring you to a humped back bridge for a hill start and put an
empty box of matches under your back wheel, if you crush the box you fail the
test (well that what they did with my dad in the 60's).

My bro is doing the driver course in a few months,
I will let yis know whats involved ...

rymus

jesus no thats balls seamus What you're describing sounds like the cannonball run


I know a guy that went thru the driver training courses and specifically for the bike, the guy could probably now drive a goldwing thru the hole in a polo mint... backwards... at 100mph... whilst eating lunch.

It's the one reason I'd like to join the gardai... to be a chopper copper. I can already feel a CHiPs moment coming on

a_ominous

Have to agree regarding high standard of motorcycle cop riders. Have only ever noticed one or two minor faults from cop riders over past few years.
I have also heard that they prefer to train people with no previous riding experience. It takes more time and effort to undo years of bad habits than should be necessary.

AFAIK the cops in cars do not get any additional training over and above the standard driving test. Unless they're assigned to special duties like escort duties where high-speed pursuit / escape may be required.

Likewise the guards on the large Pans have to do additional training. These bikes are used for escort duties amongst other things. Most guards will start off on bikes with a 600/650cc engine like Deauvilles, Kwackers (don't know model or if they're used any more). These are still bigger than civilian riders are allowed to ride on provisionals.

Seth Brundle

IIRC the two guards killed whilst in pursuit in Finglas a good while back were driving a car approx 10 years old and also had no advanced training.

On another note I was parked in the Lucan by-pass texaco for a while this evening (around 6pm) and there was somewhere between 6 and 8 motorcycle (traffic) gardai there chatting. No wonder traffic is crap in the city. (there was also a V6 camry with speed detecting equipment but he musn't be friendly with the biker rabble)

MDR

kbannon,

My brother served with those two Gardai in Finglas, all Gardai before they are allowed drive any Garda vehicle must undertake advanced Garda training. Now its a different story if the undertake the training and forget it all after the course, I amn't aware of any checks or refresher courses, but the Garda driving the car had recieved training (otherwise he wouldn't have been allowed do it), its been Garda policy for quite a long time.

On another note I was parked in the Lucan by-pass texaco for a while this evening (around 6pm) and there was somewhere between 6 and 8 motorcycle (traffic) gardai there chatting

What where they talking about ? Did you listen in, was it about 'I'm celebrity get me outta here' or was it to do with the job. Don't get me wrong, I get as pissed off as the next person, when I see Garda not wearing a high-vis or texting on their mobile phone, but in fairness you haven't a clue what they where doing, discussing etc, I wouldn't presume anything.

Seth Brundle

Originally posted by MDR
kbannon,

My brother served with those two Gardai in Finglas, all Gardai before they are allowed drive any Garda vehicle must undertake advanced Garda training. Now its a different story if the undertake the training and forget it all after the course, I amn't aware of any checks or refresher courses, but the Garda driving the car had recieved training (otherwise he wouldn't have been allowed do it), its been Garda policy for quite a long time.

Are you sure?
http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2000/05/21/story289822.asp

What where they talking about ? Did you listen in, was it about 'I'm celebrity get me outta here' or was it to do with the job. Don't get me wrong, I get as pissed off as the next person, when I see Garda not wearing a high-vis or texting on their mobile phone, but in fairness you haven't a clue what they where doing, discussing etc, I wouldn't presume anything.

I don't care what they are talking about but if it was work related, then could it
a) not wait until they all returned back to the station?
b) not be conveyed accross their radios?
c) be that this is a common meeting place for gardai who can usually be seen standing around chatting and eating - the lads in question (when I looked over) did not appear to be discussing anything serious but as I was on the other side of the forecourt I wasn't privvy to whether it was about the size of Jordan's tits or not!
Anyway, regardless of what they were talking about, this is a regular occurence at this station. How can traffic problems be adequatley dealt with if the people meant to police the roads (they were traffic division or something like that) if they are away off talking at the back of a petrol station?

therecklessone

Could they have been waiting to do escort duty for any visiting EU dignitaries by any chance? There were a couple in yesterday, plenty of plod around the airport roundabout at 5 yesterday evening.

Guy:Incognito

u no what i love? the fact that wen i go to work, i concentrate 100% for the 9 hours im there and never slack off. I'm like a machine. Now, none of u even need to know me 2 know that this whole sentence is a filthy lie. No1 (and any1 who sed they do is a liar) works there whole day if they can get away with it. I think we need to remember that, pre-joining these were average joe soaps like the rest of us and as such are ot above a little skiving

Seth Brundle

thats fair enough but the reason I mentioned it was because the fact that 6 or more of them were slacking off together during (what Im assuming) is one of their busy periods is not acceptable.

Guy:Incognito

theres only 6 of us in my job and we all slack off 2gether as nuch as possible:D its bloody genius, it is. I reckon if i put half the effort into my work that i do NOY doing my work id earn a fortune.

MDR

Are you sure?

Thats fair enough, the sbpost is reputable source but I do have a brother who can't move up to driving a patrol car until he takes the test, so obviousily policies in this area have changed. The situation was the same when my dad was a detective and motorcycle Garda, althought I don't doubt that during the heyday of the Celtic Tiger, when government was too busy patting themselves on the back to pay attention to their charges, that things may have slipped. (speaking of patrol cars finglas station didn't actually have one for quite a number of months last year).

Again your engaging in pure speculation as to what the Garda where doing at the petrol station ... perhaps they where skiving perhaps not ... we have no way of knowing, how about you ask them next time to make sure

No but seriousily, what bothers me more is that you have three sections of Garda (about 200 Garda in all) engaged in traffic policing activities, does this not to a waste of three years of training/resources etc ? Internally I know the Garda themselves regard it as the greatest waste of time/money racket to come around in a long time. We have talked in the past of forming a seperate corps to deal with our traffic problems, but like so many policies they seem to have fallen by the wayside.

Turner

Em to be honest they were probably on their lunch hour... Did they happen to be eating at the time because i know the texaco does a mean deli feast...

ToxicPaddy

I know a cop who did the training course, they do push you to the limit alright..

He was being observed by 2 training instructors, one in the front and one in the back
and at one stage was doing about 110mph on the M50 in an unmarked mondeo.

The instructor told him not to stop for anything or anyone even though at one stage
a marked cop car started following him with sirens blazing.. im sure that was some
sight..

While doing this driving, they had to describe what they were doing and also answer
questions about what was going on around them such as the colour of car they
passed 2 cars back, the signs ahead etc etc..

Went on for about an hour and like someone said earlier on, when he finished
he was mentally drained...

Apparently its a good course though and all drivers have to do it.. especially those
driving the bigger cars that can be used for pursuits..

Victor

Originally posted by Chief---
Em to be honest they were probably on their lunch hour... Did they happen to be eating at the time because i know the texaco does a mean deli feast...

This is almost certainly what they were doing. Apparently bike cops are on a work to rule over lunch allowances and are taking their breaks at the official time, not staggered.

ToxicPaddy

I heard somethign about that alright.. one of the shift's breaks is at 5.30 or 6.00 pm
and they all head off on lunch right in the middle of the evening rush hour.. but I
suppose they have to stand their ground somehow..

Tox

MDR

Legally prohibited from striking after all

:rolleyes:

unkel

The article is exactly what my experience is now, nearly 4 years after the accident. Bike coppers get the proper training, car coppers are supposed to get it, but most don't , depending largely on the district as well

Also imho, no Garda car should ever be used at high speed without it having both ABS and two airbags.

Crash into a fixed object without airbag and seat belt on even at relatively low speeds (e.g. 30-40 mph) and you are extremely lucky if you survive

Back in 2000, most Gardai were not wearing a seat belt ( they are not required to). I have seen that change dramatically over the last year or so - anyone notice the same?

Bosh

Bikes:

Standard course: 4 weeks very tough & exacting. You will not pass unless they are 100% sure you are safe & competent. Qualifies up to 650cc.

Advanced course: 2 weeks. Balls to the wall, flat out total concentration. HUGE emphasis on roadcraft & observation skills. High failure/drop out rate. Qualifies to 1100cc +

Cars:

Standard course: two weeks. Was four weeks until 10 or so years ago. Too expensive so was cut back.

Advanced course: Practically non existant except for some ministerial drivers & specialist units e.g. ERU.

Very large number of Garda drivers are driving on "Chief's Permission" or having been assessed by PSV inspector. Only requirement is to have full licence. Bean counters reluctant to send personnel on courses due to cost & lack of manpower.

Source - serving traffic officer cum drinking buddy cum fellow biker type bloke.