Asian cinema overrated

smiaras

This post has been deleted.

Dont be at yourself

Yes.

Some people like to think that Asian cinema is the be-all and end-all of modern action and horror cinema. They'll put average films on a pedestal and heap endless praise on them, simply because they're asian. I don't really understand it myself, I guess it makes them feel all superior and elitist or something.

They're usually the same people people who bitch and moan about the latest Hollywood blockbuster for being clichéd, unimaginitive or badly paced/acted/ directed, and yet seem capable of ignoring these flaws in foreign movies. Perhaps its the language barrier, more likely its elitism.

Of course, such is the nature of our world, only the biggest and most successful asian films reach our shores - we're rarely exposed to the asian equivalent of Gigli, because if the movie bombs in Asia, it won't get distributed over here, and won't have the word of mouth to carry it unofficially to our shores.

Karl Hungus

First, I think you simply seem to be judging Asian films on the back of the Tartan Asia Extreme label. Which, while they do have some very good titles, isn't exactly a showcase for Asian cinema as a whole. I do enjoy the films of Takashi Miike, as he definetly has a very odd style, and approach with narrative, he's quite original in my opinion.

But what's a good point is that Asia Extreme does cater for the action/gore hound, and horror fans, pretty exclusively.

There's many, many other styles from many other directors.
Takeshi Kitano, Akira Kurosawa, Nagisa Oshima, Hayao Miyazaki, and many more.

In fact, Kuosawa is still hailed as one of the luminaries of film altogether. He's a staggeringly good director, and his influence can still be felt now, 50 years on from his breakthrough work.

I do however feel that there's definetly some truth to this thread, seeing as the Asia Extreme label has certainly made it big in the indipendant market, there's a lot of titles that are being released on the label, that are in all fairness naff. I couldn't comment on Ring 0 because I thought it rather pointless after Ring 2 being such crap.


In conclusion, I dont think you can possibly make such a sweeping statement, that Asian Cinema as a whole, is over-rated. If, however, you are just basing this arguement on the Asia Extreme label, I do think you have a very valid point.

smiaras

This post has been deleted.

alb

Easy on the Asians Lou.

Karl Hungus

Well, I don't think there's much I can say here to convince you otherwise if you think the endings feel 'Flat' it's more of a personal opinion than a criticism towards the film itself. Personally, I loved the sort of open-ended conclusion to Ichi The Killer, much in the same way I loved the ending to 12 Monkeys, but I've heard many people say that the ending ruined Monkeys in the sense that it wasn't any kind of conclusion to the film. But yet it remains a classic in my eyes.

Originally posted by smiaras
Anyone know when the eye was released?

The Eye was released in 2002.

smiaras

This post has been deleted.

Capt'n Midnight

Don't forget bollywood churns out mostly crap, and serious amounts of it , but a few good ones thrown in - if you ignore the song and dance routines >>.

Hong Kong - some excellent entertaining films, John Wu / Jackie Chan et al years back channel 4 showed chinese ghost stories at christmas - Mr Vampire etc.
I can't remember the one about the people being killed by butterfiles - it was good too.

Japan - Kurasawa / Manga / Early Godzilla - And I still like the film about yer man going off to Iceland to bury his parents.

I don't know what all the fuss about hidden dragon grouchy tiger was all about - lots of better films before it.

Farewell my concubine...

As for endings - Big Budget Hollywod films <uggh> sacharine aftertaste everything resolved..
Watch Blood Simple some time

Karl Hungus

Originally posted by smiaras
Does anyone else feel the eye was a complete rip of the sixth sense, this isn't a bad thing as such but the hype its been getting is slightly unjustified as a result IMO

I'd say you could definetly draw comparisons between The Eye and The Sixth Sense, but a rip off? No, I wouldn't say so. I mean, you could just as easily draw comparisons between 6th sense, and any other 'Ghost' movie. I think the whole point of the film really, was the big twist at the end when we find out

omg, Bruce Willis was dead all along!!!

Whereas The Eye was more do to with the main character, and finding out where exactly the eyes in question came from. The ending certainly didn't have anything in common with 6th Sense, and other than the notion of ghosts not nessiceraly being evil, there's not really much in common.

I suppose there wasn't much hype when I saw it, and it completely and utterly scared the bejesus out of me!

Don't tell me you didn't jump at the Caligraphy lesson scene?

So it was kinda out of the blue, something not much heard of this time last year even? I presume you mean the praise it's been getting on boards, and the internet than media hype, so perhaps it did spoil it somewhat for you?

I personally thought it was a great film altogether, and seeing as it did effectively scare me ****less, something that no film has been able to do for a very, very long time, I'm probably part-ways to blame for hyping it on boards.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

that scene scared the ****e out of me too whorew.

jonhate

Originally posted by AngelWhore
I personally thought it was a great film altogether, and seeing as it did ,effectively scare me ****less, something that no film has been able to do for a very, very long time,

Yes i totally agree with this point. Not since,When i was a kid and starting watching horror movies have i been scared like this!!

Really good stuff!

davros

Part of the issue might be that foreign language films get shown in arthouse cinemas. What was an ordinary, mainstream film in its native country becomes elevated to 'art' in Ireland because it has subtitles.

So expectations are set a little high, I think. I like Asian cinema for variety, because I get to see an entirely different culture on screen. Occasionally, there are masterpieces like 'In the Mood for Love' but that is only to be expected among the huge output of the Asian cinema industry.

koneko

Asia is like any other region as far as film releases go. There's good stuff and bad stuff.

I think the reason people have been talking about it so much recently is because a lot of people have only just discovered these films. That's a whole sort-of back catalogue to explore. Some of it is great, really good, but there's always the same pile of garbage in there aswell. You just have to sort through the masses and hopefully find the gems in there.

smiaras

This post has been deleted.

Grom

Just seen this post I never heard of the eye. Is it out in most mianstrem video outlets or will i have to go elsewere to get it.

Btw I liked the ring the new version didnt like the old version myself

patch

Originally posted by Grom
Just seen this post I never heard of the eye. Is it out in most mianstrem video outlets or will i have to go elsewere to get it.

Btw I liked the ring the new version didnt like the old version myself

Nah, you won't get in mainstream rental shops. If you didn't like the Jap Ring ,
chances are you won't like The Eye either. I personally found it to be one of the best asian movies I've seen, after The Killer of course.

Then again, you could just wait for the Tom Cruise remake. I understand he's bought up the rights.

Karl Hungus

Originally posted by smiaras
It bugs me more so that when Hollywood remkae these movies they are immediately deemed poor in comparison, just watched the original version of the Ring and I have to say the remake is pretty impressive.

Am I to understand that you saw the remake first? If so, then your experience was probably rather tarnished. Personally, I thought the American version was horridly bad, simply because they felt the need to 'Jazz Up' what is basically a very slow-buring psychological film with a lot of over-done semi-action scenes. The pinnacle of this being the ending of the film, where they felt the need to stick what resembles a car chase scene from Die Hard, right in the middle of the most tense part of the film. It's simply lousy film-making that takes all the power out of the scene. In the original

I was practically crawling out of my seat with the tension, backing away from my TV. It's a pivotal part that the whole film was building towards, and it was presented so claustrophobically that it really had an astounding effect on me. But many 'Hollywood' elements utterly trashed this scene. I'd imagine that seeing the remake first would completely null any effect this scene had.

smiaras

This post has been deleted.

Karl Hungus

I guessed as much...
Out of curiosity, when you saw the end of the original Ring, were you scared at all?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

I was..
and I still am
.
god damn I hate that bitch

Chad ghostal

Originally posted by NekkidBibleMan
Yes.

They're usually the same people people who bitch and moan about the latest Hollywood blockbuster for being clichéd, unimaginitive or badly paced/acted/ directed, and yet seem capable of ignoring these flaws in foreign movies. Perhaps its the language barrier, more likely its elitism.

i take offence to this, i often bitch about how horrible most main stream movies are, alot->most of them are very bad, and its not elitism, its just what i enjoy and what i dont, i watched Alot, Alot of crap films in my time, and i took them for what they were and just tried to enjoy them, i cant anymore, they suck.

your definetly right about alot of asian movies being put up on a pedistal, john woo for example was hailed as an action god, i used to think that way too, but if you watch enough of his films you just get bored, his american films are terrible and alot of his asian films are much better
with the exception of the killer and hard boiled
both of which i really like, hard boiled is one of the best action films of all time.

imo the eye was cutting very close to a rip off,
saw it very close to the sixth sense are there are alot of similarities. but then i thought they were both crap.

smiaras

This post has been deleted.

Karl Hungus

Originally posted by smiaras
Although I didn't think the Eye was great thought lots of the early scenes like the first ghost were great. The camerawork and direction was fantastic just thought by the end of it it just went ott.

Personally, I really liked the ending of The Eye...
Didn't expect it at all! Far better than if they'd wrapped up with a 'happy' ending.

smiaras

This post has been deleted.

weemcd

smiaras you have hit the nail on the head my friend. I also think that those who like Asian cinema, just want an exotic, niche pastime to share with their media type friends. Tbh this kind of forced alternativism that so many people posses really bugs me, and they will worship anything that falls off the alternative band wagon. However there are true fans who liked it long before the masses, and I have no problem with you, I’m just saying this elitism bugs me big time, especially when these films fall apart at the end, I also didn’t enjoy battle royal which imo was nothing more than a 2 hour long gore fest not a million miles away from a pointless Hollywood slasher that these elitists are trying to get away from, seems ironic to me

Karl Hungus

weemcd, I think it's very naive and closed-minding of you to pass judgement on people's reasons for enjoying certain films, in this case, Asian movies. I'm also gathering from your post, the same thing that I did from smiaras' original comment, that you're basing your opinion solely on the Tartan Asia Extreme label. I'd argue that there isn't really a band-wagon as such, seeing as the label, and the releases are indeed very recent for the most part.

Another point you raise is about Battle Royale. Now, personally I enjoyed the film very much, but let's make no bones about it, I did enjoy it for what it was, and that was very much as you put it, a 2 hour gore fest. I enjoyed it for the same reasons I enjoyed The Evil Dead all those years ago. I didn't think it was a 'deep' film, or anything, and in fact there was a major plot hole or two that bothered me.

But, like I said in my first reply to this thread, the Asia Extreme label is pretty much catering to the action/gore hounds. In fact, I'd argue that Audition is the only film on the label (That I've seen so far) that is distictly 'high-brow' or anyways an intelligent film.

Another film that was released by Asia Extreme, called Versus, is a totally OTT action/horror gore-fest, and personally, I loved it utterly. It's complete absurdity, and gore captured the same feeling as Braindead did all those years ago, while being a very original film in its own right. I'm not going to claim that there's anything intellectually superior about the majority of the films released by Asia Extreme, it's simply the fact that in a world of 'Scream' clones and downright rubbish Horror movies, it's nice that there are quite recent films that do indeed live up to 'The Good Old Days' of horror.

But like I said, I'm not going to pretend anything here, I'm out-right saying that I do like a good bit of old-school low-brow horror. Why that's the same reason I like old Italian zombie movies! But it's altogether immiature of you weemcd to second-guess and presume people's reasons for liking anything. And as I have said in my original post, there's a hell of a lot more Asian Cinema out there, don't be so small minded to paint 'em all with the same brush-stroke.

Originally posted by smiaras
Its not that I was expecting a happy ending I think the

bus scene

pales in comparison with the first ghost scene.

The whole fire thing was just so poor, it was more like a Hollywood ending. They miraculously escape the explosion and surprise surprise she goes blind again and its a happy ending

Ok, I'll grant you that it did indeed pale in comparison, and the fact that she did go blind again was just far too convienient, but as a whole, it was a great film altogether.