New Games System..Build or Buy?

c0y0te

So,

Here I am again, a few years down the road since my last upgrade with cash burning a hole in my pocket

The decision is to either purchase a kickass gaming system, or build one, however there are variants in between as well.

My current system was a komplett bundle variety, which has been fine for the last couple of years but its a bit dated now. Thinking ahead to Doom 3 / Half Life 2, I'm trying to decide on the best course of action so I thought I'd throw up a poll.

Please vote for your chosen option, and include comments and advice if you wish. Thanks in advance.

c0y0te

declan_lgs

if your usin your rig for games mainly, id go for an alienware rig..
they optimise there comps for gamers, and build nice machines..
dell sux ass, their a total rip-off..
building a pc wouldn't be a bad idea, its the cheepest if ya wanna overclock..
id go for an alienware rig, but only if i had the cash for a decent one

zAbbo

Wait until those games are released, dont give in to the hype.

Oh and build your own

Creamy Goodness

Originally posted by declan_lgs
if your usin your rig for games mainly, id go for an alienware rig..
they optimise there comps for gamers, and build nice machines..
dell sux ass, their a total rip-off..
building a pc wouldn't be a bad idea, its the cheepest if ya wanna overclock..
id go for an alienware rig, but only if i had the cash for a decent one

don't go dell, don't go alienware.

build your own round the time them games come out.

for best performance start looking at P4's

tman

who the hell voted for dell

alienware if you've got the wonga to spare, build your own if you've still got a few recyclable components from the last rig.

astrofool

definitely build your own. Also, would recommend overclockers.co.uk or overclock.co.uk at the moment, esp. if u plan to overclock at all, you can get far better coolers from them than with komplett, and usually they have alot more in stock. Also, their case selection is much much better.

Get a nice p4 or athlon 64 system. Price/performance wise rests with a p4 3.0, or a64-3000+, gig of ram and 9800pro 128meg right now. p4 overclocks more, the athlon 64 is a good bit faster if not overclocked.

declan_lgs

omfg, dell are crap.. total rip-offs..
if your building your system, definetly shop around, can save alot of money.
www.overclockers.co.uk are great, my brother bought from them.. deliver in a few days, pretty good

Dempsey

Id recommend building your own. You'll get satisfaction in building your own.

uberpixie

if you have built before build again. Better value for money if you are building a high end gaming rig.


If you decide not well buy dell to be honest.

1430 euro these days gets you

3ghz ht
512mb ram (2x256mb) pc3200
875 chipset
120g 8mb cache sata hd
ati radeon 9800pro 128mb
audigy 2 soundcard
16x dvd
48x burner
19" ultrascan monitor
floppy
56k modem
crap two button mouse
win xp
1 year waranty



2077.55 in alienware gets you

3ghz ht
Intel® D875PBZ - Intel 875P Pentium 4 Motherboard
512mb ram (2x256mb) pc3200
120g 8mb cache sata hd seagate
nividia 5700 ultra 128mb
audigy 2zs
16x dvd
48x burner
floppy
winxp
420 watt power supply
no monitor!

I don't care how good the parts in the alienware are it no way justifies a 600 euro price hike ovthe the fecking dell and no monitor! Bastards expect you to pay 2 grand for a system that does not have a **** kicker of a graphics card in it and no monitor.
Are they on cocaine? or are people actually stupid enough to pay that money to them?

Would hardly call the dell for1430 euro a rip off, not compared to alienware anyway! A dell wont win any bench mark awards but it will play games well and the other 600 euro you save can be spent on games, a nice set of speakers and black jack and hookers

c0y0te

Keep it coming.. I'm really interested in your views/comments, and if you have any decent links (like overclockers above) please include them;)

c0y0te

Caliden

be the envy off all ur m8's with an alienware rig.
the graphics are next to god-like, and with their new athlon-64 bit model that money of yours will go to a top-notch machine of mind-boggling bench-marks.
still depends what your looking for as a build-your-own you can specify your mobo,pro,graphics. only problem is putting the damm thing together but if your good at that then pick the parts and make it

Creamy Goodness

he graphics are next to god-like,

erm if say an alienware uses a ati 9800pro.

what's the difference between that and the one you can buy in komplett ???

_sheep

What kinda money we talking ?

WizZard

What kinda money we talking ?

You'd need to say what you are prepared to spend. The cheapest Alienware is around €1500 AFAIK.
I've just built my first PC myself, ran into a few little bumps but got them sorted. It now kicks ass!
It cost me around €1600 and I sourced most of the parts through Overclockers.co.uk
Here it is (shameless boast )

AMD Athlon64 3200+
Zalman 7000-AlCu HSF
ASUS K8V Deluxe
1Gb Corsair XMS3200LLPro Memory
160gb Seagate Barracuda SATA150 HDD (x2)
LiteOn 8x DVD/RW Drive
LiteOn 52x CR/RW Drive
Sapphire Radeon 9600XT 256mb
Thermaltake Xaser III v2000a
Thermaltake 480w 'Butterfly' PSU
Logitech Cordless Desktop MX

Dempsey

Id agree with uberpixie. I hear that intel boards arent any better than the ones dell use. Dell arent crap but you should price one yourself and compare it to what you can get off dell.

If ur gonna want to overclock, then you'll have build yourself. Some nice specs being mentioned there. Id recommend P4's myself, cos ive used a 2800+ and a 2.8c. The difference is noticable everywhere.

OfflerCrocGod

Half-Life 2/Doom 3???.

Wait. Summer. Athlon 64. Komplett. Pc-Look.com. STOP.

Sir Random

If you want a kick-@ss gaming machine, you'll have to wait patiently (like the rest of us) until March/April when the next-gen gfx cards are released and PCI-E mobos are available.
We are at the end of the current gpu chip cycle (the 9800XT and 5950 have stretched their chips to the limit) so If you build now, you won't do better than an Asus P4C800-E Dlx + 3.2Ghz Northwood (Prescotts available from tomorrow 02/02/04) + Rad 9800XT.

Current top-end gfx cards are just chronically overclocked/revised versions of chips released over a year ago. The first batch of next-gen cards (as well as being much faster) should be very overclockable, as the chips will be clocked at the lower end of their potential spectrum.

c0y0te

Interesting points Sir Random....


to answer some of the questions above:-

1) Budget - I can see myself spending up to 2K on this (I know, starving millions and better things to spend it on blah blah), but I spend so much time on my system that it might as well be a good un!

2) Previous Build experience - I got a m8 to do the necessary last time. I spec'd (and got second opinion) the rig from komplett and then had a m8 put the whole thing together.

3) I've an AMD system at the mo, but was thinking of going back to Intel this time around.

Keep it coming, very useful discussion and poll as far as I'm concerned. :ninja:

c0y0te

WizZard

If you can afford to, I'd wait for a month or two.
Socket 939 Athlon64's are coming out at the end of Feb so this should push the prices on the current Athlon64's down. The new FX-53 will be coming out around the same time so if you were to wait til summer you could probably put together a demon system for 2k.
I've no idea of Intel's roadmap, maybe somoeone else could shed a bit of light on what their plans are.

Venom

c0y0te post the specs of your current system as you may not need to replace all of it. Building your own is the way to go rather than buying a pre built system but also bear in mind that the newer gfx cards,chips and mobo's will cut into your 2k budget big time. You need to deceide if you want a top of the range gaming rig or the latest peice of tech poser system.

joePC

I would say hold out until March/ April, now is the worst time to upgrade your system because all the new components are coming out very soon, wait until PCI express + SATA + Prescot + ATI / Nvidia's next chip, its only a couple of months, then u'll have the best gaming system....

Thanks joePC

ykt0di9url7bc3

You may want to wait for BTX boards and the new pci slot...dunno what the future may hold but hold off until the summer

Dempsey

Originally posted by joePC
I would say hold out until March/ April, now is the worst time to upgrade your system because all the new components are coming out very soon, wait until PCI express + SATA + Prescot + ATI / Nvidia's next chip, its only a couple of months, then u'll have the best gaming system....

Thanks joePC

If your gonna wait for the next best thing, then you'll never buy anything, if ya wait till march/april, then you'll want to wait for BTX then you'll want to wait till intel bring out their pinless sockets and the "Tejas" Chip, before ya know it, its next christmas.

Im not buying anything till the Tejas is out myself because the transition from 32 bit and ATX will have swinged to 64 bit and BTX. That will be next christmas before prices will have come down from the changes. Ya dont have to wait though. A good PC now will be able to handle Half Life 2 and Doom 3 very well.

c0y0te

My current spec (as requested):-

Win XP Pro
AMD 1.8ghz
ASUS Av7333 Mobo
Komplett ATX 'Dragon' Tower Case with usual fans/power etc.
Geforce TI 4400 128mb
2 x 80gb 7200rpm Maxtor HDDs
512mb DDR PC2700
Usual DVD / CDRW optical drives
Hansol 920D Plus 19inch CRT Monitor
Crappy Soundblaster Live 5.1 PCI Soundcard


c0y0te

OfflerCrocGod

As everyone one is saying, wait!!. I wont be getting a new rig until next Jan/Feb, why? - Dempsey^^ pretty much sums up my feelings, except I'll be getting an Athlon64 (maybe FX??:D). If you really want to get a new rig for those new games wait until they are actually available, not before then, remember HL2 was meant to be out last year!:(.

OfflerCrocGod

Jesus c0y0te your current specs are just fine!!!, they are just like mine (you have better Gfx card) and my machine runs along at a fine speed, why not wait.

BigEejit

A lot of people are mentioning forthcoming major standards changes like BTX and PCI-Express ... anyone know when these will actually appear? ... approximate prices?, we all know you'll pay through the nose being an early adopter, so a buy now and sell when later when those standards are commonplace (and therefore cheaper) mightnt be a bad idea ... not to mention avoiding all the flakey driver releases etc etc that you get with being at the bleeding edge...

Venom

These all all fine and you have no need to upgrade them.

Win XP Pro
Komplett ATX 'Dragon' Tower Case with usual fans/power etc.
2 x 80gb 7200rpm Maxtor HDDs
Usual DVD / CDRW optical drives
Hansol 920D Plus 19inch CRT Monitor

These could do with some upgrades.......

Crappy Soundblaster Live 5.1 PCI Soundcard - Audigy 2 are going damm cheep and are a kick ass sound card.

AMD 1.8ghz - Do the job right and get a P4
ASUS Av7333 Mobo - as above

Geforce TI 4400 128mb - ATI 9600xt again going cheep or spend the cash for a top of the range 9800xt card

512mb DDR PC2700 - if your going for a P4 system get at least ddr 3200 ram. Go for 1gb as it make a huge difference to games.

El_MUERkO

Originally posted by WizZard
You'd need to say what you are prepared to spend. The cheapest Alienware is around €1500 AFAIK.
I've just built my first PC myself, ran into a few little bumps but got them sorted. It now kicks ass!
It cost me around €1600 and I sourced most of the parts through Overclockers.co.uk
Here it is (shameless boast )

AMD Athlon64 3200+
Zalman 7000-AlCu HSF
ASUS K8V Deluxe
1Gb Corsair XMS3200LLPro Memory
160gb Seagate Barracuda SATA150 HDD (x2)
LiteOn 8x DVD/RW Drive
LiteOn 52x CR/RW Drive
Sapphire Radeon 9600XT 256mb
Thermaltake Xaser III v2000a
Thermaltake 480w 'Butterfly' PSU
Logitech Cordless Desktop MX

Can I ask where you got the Case & Power Supply?

Woden

venom i've been wondering myself about the advantages of a gig of ram over my half gig how do you think it would affect my system?

Venom

Originally posted by Dataisgod
venom i've been wondering myself about the advantages of a gig of ram over my half gig how do you think it would affect my system?

You may not really notice that big of a difference in general windows usage going form 512 to 1024 ram. I did but I went form 256mb to 1gig. For games tho it makes a huge difference. Also the latest MMORPGs like Sw:G, Planetside and Horizons really need 1gb to be playable and I would imagine that games like Doom3 and HL2 will run much better with a gig or ram.

uberpixie

to be honest i have more or less the same system as you coyote.

Except i upgraded the 1800xp to a 2400xp and went from a 4200 64mb geforce4 to a 9800 non pro.

My box plays games sweet and will play half-life2/ doom3 etc.. on high detail when they come out. And i should be able to squeeze another good year out of my box by upping my ram up to a gig.

To be honest upgrading your currant box will get you an extra year out of it and then in a years time you can build an absolute new **** kicker of a rig.

The performance difference between a new 2k system now vs an upgrade wont be very noticable. The difference between a 2k system now and a 2k system in a years time will be huge!

2400xp-78euro(highest xp an A7V333 can take)

9800pro-266 to 300 euro depending on make

512mb pc2700 ram-100 euro or there abouts

thats 500 euro to keep you sweet for a year of high end gaming.

Then build in a years time. Makes the most sense economically and for you to get the most out of the tech you bought. Thats what i am going to do anyhow:-)

Just another option worth considering to buy/build.

BadCharlie

Have had 512mb of ram in my computers for the past 3 or 4 years. I put in an extra 512 in this machine as i noticed lots of games were taking up 600megs or more ( BF1942, Rise Of Natoins .... ). And it made a big differince i must say. The load time in BF1942 was redused and i also get no sudden jurks in picture during rise of nations or BF1942 as its all stored in the extra ram ( no need for hard drive to keep loading during game ).

Woden

thanks for the opinions folks my current ram usage for typical internet browsing is about half of my half gig. my computer runs FF XI and battlefield and all quite well i have never checked the ram usage though when a game is on i will look into that

Ryaner

Firstly bout the ram since it last on topic. The current board all support dual channel ram. If you dont have two dimms it dont work - simple. 1GB of ram is noticeable on 512 single. I was using a gig and dropped back to 512 at one point for a few days. Soon as I bought it back to a gig everything ran noticeably faster than with 512. Faster loading and gameplay.
The 64fx is the way to go in the new systems really. Intel charge thru the nose and AMD chips are quite OCable.
For gfx, if your current games run stuff atm then leave it. PCI-E will be the business but march? Try the summer for general release and then how long before it become wide spread and the problems get sorted and it starts to jump ahead in price. Also how many cards are gonna come out at the same time as it? Buying a card now isnt really good idea. The 9600xt is way to go as it's an amazing card and will run HL2 and Doom3 but maybe by that stage the new standards will be widely available anyway.
Sound, the audigy2 is a great card. I got a platium ex for 200euro on special. It's got the breakout box and all and put with the speakers it's amazing. The difference from the nForce onboard sound was heard straight away not to mention it doesnt skip or slow when the system load is high and your effect are too.

c0y0te

Thanks for all the input lads.

The main reason I was thinking of replacing my current system was two fold. On the one hand I wanted to go beyond the 2.4ghz limitation of my mobo, and make sure I could have a beast worthy of running HL2/D3 at full details.

On the other hand, my current system tends to crash on me regularly.. and I've never been able to find out why. I've always put it down to the fact that I had it built rather than purchased it as a pre-configured rig. I've had several ppl look at it, but no one item stands out as being at fault.

So that is why I was looking to get a new system. That and of course the fact that we all love shiny new boxes and gadgets as well!!:D

The majority of you seem to recommend the build approach again.. so I guess I need to decide if I want to go that route again or not. I will take into account all the comments about the new standards and timing, so thanks again for the feedback.

c0y0te

whosurpaddy

Originally posted by WizZard
AMD Athlon64 3200+
Zalman 7000-AlCu HSF
ASUS K8V Deluxe
1Gb Corsair XMS3200LLPro Memory
160gb Seagate Barracuda SATA150 HDD (x2)
LiteOn 8x DVD/RW Drive
LiteOn 52x CR/RW Drive
Sapphire Radeon 9600XT 256mb
Thermaltake Xaser III v2000a
Thermaltake 480w 'Butterfly' PSU
Logitech Cordless Desktop MX

nice rig, just one comment: why would u buy a dvd-rw and cd-rw instead of buying a dvd-rw and dvd-rom? with a dvd-rom u could be burning on the fly whereas with the cd-rw u gotta read from dvd-rw to hd, the burn from hd to dvd-rw.

BloodBath

Order online definately. I put a rig together from a few sites. Total cost 2200, the rig is better than what you would get off alienware and about 800 squid cheaper.

You should order whenever you want a new rig. There will always be some new technology due out in a few months. The new range of graphics cards and processors will not be massively in front of the current technology. Get yourself a P43.2(currently e350 on komplett, due to drop to about e300 in the next few days) with a good mobo top ram and you will easily overclock it to 4-4.5ghz or higher. A radeon 9800XT and there you go. You will have a system that will still be top of the range in a years time and will outperform all the current processors available even the athlon64FX and the P4 ee.

Anyone that pays e800+for a processor is ****ing crazy.

Your system at the mo is pretty decent but if you have the money you might as well buy a new one and then you have 2 rigs. You could upgrade your graphics to a radeon 9600xt which is alright for most games but you would not get a good frame rate with max detail and a good res in half life 2 or doom3. Hell you wouldn't even get a good rate in BF1942 with that.


I'm ordering this week, can't be bothered waiting for anything new because when it does come out there is usually little support for it initially and there will be something else due in another couple of months.

With a rig like the one I mentioned you will have no trouble with any games for a long time and would be well within your budget.


BloodBath

Praetorian

Hi Coyote,

Remember me?

Definitely don't buy a Dell or an Alienware pc.

If your still into games, then definitely get an Athlon 64. The 3000+ variant has less cache (but still runs at 2ghz). It's as fast as the 3200+ in almost all benchmarks (within 2-3%). Amd made a big mistake with that processor; it's fantastic value!

I built a 3200+ back in September for a rich ba$tard when they just came out, and to be honest it was way faster than my p4-3000 clocked at 3500 for games.

Graphics wise go for a Radeon 9800 Pro, 128 or 256.

So I guess I'm saying, build your own! Or get a friend you trust to do it.

Regards,

Damien.

Woden

Originally posted by whosurpaddy
nice rig, just one comment: why would u buy a dvd-rw and cd-rw instead of buying a dvd-rw and dvd-rom? with a dvd-rom u could be burning on the fly whereas with the cd-rw u gotta read from dvd-rw to hd, the burn from hd to dvd-rw.

i'm not sure but the reason i'd do that is because i think certain dvd-rw can't back up certain things like the latest games and such while a dedicated cd-rw like that liteon will be able to.

STaN

On a side note i have 4 * 256MB Modules of OCZ PC3500 (up to 434Mhz @ CL2) RAM on for sale if your interested, it's the best RAM i ever used.

For comparison operates at PC3200 = 400Mhz @ CL2

Slutmonkey57b

Good Editorial here for the newbie (or the tired & flummoxed) http://www.hexus.net/ .

Wait til April. I'm tempted to do an upgrade myself but I won't get time to use a new rig so there's no point.

c0y0te

So...

if I was to ask you builder types how much should it cost me to get someone competent to spec and build a new rig for me:D ... what you you advice?

c0y0te

Dempsey

Originally posted by Slutmonkey57b
Wait til April. I'm tempted to do an upgrade myself but I won't get time to use a new rig so there's no point.

Good Article but the prices for those new items will be the highest on the market and the current stuff's prices wont drop until two months after.

Slutmonkey57b

Means the prices on the current top spec stuff will be dirt cheap though. Buying the best of the last gen stuff in April will mean you'll get it at budget prices but still be running a very strong rig in a year's time.

Prices for Athlon64's will be at AthlonXP levels in April when the new PCI-X mobos & cards come out. Remember, for all the processor fanfare over the new prescotts etc, it's not the processer that is the bottleneck in the modern system.

unkel

Originally posted by c0y0te
So...

if I was to ask you builder types how much should it cost me to get someone competent to spec and build a new rig for me:D ... what you you advice?

c0y0te

There are several people here on boards.ie that would do that for you for a nominal fee or for nothing - post a thread "who wants to build my new pc" and you'll be surprised how many reactions you'll get

Go for it