Hydrogen

KevinM

I'm going to build a hydrogen powered engine, and I was looking for information on Gas Turbine engines or Zinc and Hydrocloric acid (I think that was what my Biology teacher said!) Or would water, seperating the oxygen and hydrogen be easier. As for quantities required.... I have to re-do my scale drawings

Thanks in advance!:cool:

stereo_steve

good luck! I'd love to know how this turns out! Will you keep us posted?

Best way to get the hydrogen is probably to separate water. Does your school have a Hoffman voltameter? Some school do. Its a pricy instrument though cos it contains platinium. So be careful! Your teacher wouldn't be impressed with a broken one!

Capt'n Midnight

Most of this involves chemicals & other nasty stuff
don't try at home.


Caustic Soda (NaOH / Sodium Hydoxide) + Aluminium --> Hydrogen

Caustic Soda (nasty evil stuff - removes your fingerprints - bad burns end up as weeping sores that take months to heal etc.) - can get in many hardware stores - for cleaning / drain unblocking. - Wear gloves and eye protection - add it to the water slowly - if you add it to hot water, it will boil and splash and spit.

Bits of aluminium should be easy to obtain.

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If you are trying electolysis of water you can use acid or base (caustic soda) as the electrolyte - for the electrodes I think you can use metal ones if using base as electrolyte. - The carbon rod in batteries (D cells torch batteries) should be ok in acid maybe..

Have a look at the Green Issues forum for more info on H2

Car battery chargers or Computer PSU's should be able to provice current at low voltage DC - but be very careful as water and electricity mix only too well....

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Also look up "producer gas" it is a lethal mix of carbon monoxide and hydrogen
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Is the engine a modified petrol engine ?

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I think you it is possible to make a fuel cell using carbon rod - drilled out so the gas can flow through it - maybe you have to heat to red hot in an over - can't remember details and H2 and Air in a Potassium hydroxide electolyte

KevinM

Thanks for the info, and hopefully if I can remember! I'll keep you updated! I have not had much of a chance to get any work done this week, luckily the project is due in 1 year.

Zaphod

A number of groups are currently looking at sodium borohydride (NaBH4) as a safe source of hydrogen. Readily available from Aldrich, Acros Organics etc.

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,60305,00.html

Capt'n Midnight

http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/SO/sodium_borohydride.html
Safety (MSDS) data for sodium borohydride


Toxicology
Toxic by ingestion. Risk of serious internal burns if ingested. Harmful if inhaled and in contact with skin. May cause burns or severe irritation in contact with skin or eyes.
Toxicity data
(The meaning of any abbreviations which appear in this section is given here.)
ORL-RAT LD50 89 mg kg-1
SKN-RBT LD50 4000 mg kg-1
IPR-RAT LD50 18 mg kg-1

So 89g will kill 50% of 100Kg of rats. (how heavy is a rat ?)

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Proposal for regeneration project..
www.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/ pdfs/iiid1_wu.pdf

PS. loved that bit where they called it a high energy form of Borax (borax is no longer regared as safe as it used to be) and HTP - high test peroxide is used in rockets - cf. British Satellite launchers - it's a high energy form of water.

Zaphod

I guess the risk is relative. Even water, if taken in sufficient quantities, will kill you. As a general rule, best to avoid ingesting chemical reagents

The main benefit of sodium borohydride is a few grams allows you to generate large volumes of hydrogen in situ at a controlled rate. Storing hydrogen gas, say as a fuel source for a car, is a bit of a hassle (v. low temps, container needs to be able to withstand high pressures, possibilty of explosion etc) and a much greater hazard than solid NaBH4.

Capt'n Midnight

It's the regeneration method I'd be interested in - lots of metalic batteries with Hydrogen - but you need to get to 400C before it breaks down - not ideal for small acale stuff.

Calcium di carbide when added to water gives off acetlyene H-C=C-H which will burn and might be usable in a fuel cell.

[edit] explosion risk etc.

GuanYin

Lads, no posting methodologies that involve possibly dangerous chemicals.

I'll edit out anything i see in the future.

Delphi91

Quick way to collect hydrogen is to use bog-standard water (or distilled water is better - buy it from a garage or a Motor Factors)

Use the same principle as the Hoffman Voltameter, except forget the platinum (WAY too expensive unless you can melt down someones jewellry!)


[Edit] Read the post above - Syke
[/edit]

One word of advice - Hydrogen is highly explosive! BE CAREFUL!!!!!!!!!!


Mike

GuanYin

Lads, I'm closing this thread.

In future any references to methodologies that I deem dangerous will be edited.
Repeat offenders will be banned.

Syke