Luas and Mars

Yoda

A friend forwarded this to me:

Earth to Mars

* Distance: approximately 77,000,000 km
* NASA Spirit Cost: approximately $410,000,000
* Launched: 2003-06-10
* Landed: Jan 2004-01
* Status: Working

Luas:

* Length of first two lines: approximately 25 km
* Luas cost so far: Approx. €775,000,000
* Construction of Line A, commenced in 1999-09.
* Status: Not working

Just to give some idea of scale, if there were to be an Irish mission launched in the morning, at this rate it would take 13,000,000 years to get to Mars, without actually working, in spite of costing €208,000,000,000,000.

loyatemu

* NASA Spirit Cost: approximately $410,000,000

i suspect this is the cost of the probe alone (if the figure hasn't just been pulled from thin air)

cost a lot more to get it to mars.

Victor

Unofficial comment "But they didn't have to deal with the Red Cow Roundabout"

Official comment "They did not have to buy property at Dublin rates, negotiate with residents and contend with Dublin traffic."

A few weeks old, but relevant.

http://www.sbpost.ie/web/DocumentView/did-744051432-pageUrl--2FLife-2FMotoring.asp

Luas line may reduce traffic by 20,000 cars
14/12/03 00:00
By Mark Hilliard

The completion of all major Luas works later this month will be welcomed by many Dublin motorists as a return to normality for the New Year.

The Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) claims that, when it is fully up and running by mid-2004, the Luas could cut down on rush hour traffic by as much as 20,000 cars.

The government said that the new light rail project will play a "major role in persuading the travelling public of the merits of public transport".

But the Luas construction project has not run smoothly. The term "cost creep" has become a particular favourite of the Economic and Social Research Institute (ESRI), while the RPA has been accused of running over budget and behind time.

Some city centre business owners have blamed the Luas construction works for a staggering 50 per cent loss in business.

The RPA's director of corporate services, Ger Hannon, says this criticism is "over the top" and that most Dublin city dwellers will come to realise the benefits of the Luas in time.

"There is a certain level of apprehension because you are dealing with a society that is not used to dealing with trams, but I think when they start running people will get any misperceptions they may have out of their minds," he said.

"In the morning peak you could have 30,000 people using the Luas. That is only a starting capacity, the trams can be extended and the capacity can be expanded.

"One of the shorter trams can carry four times the capacity of a large bus," said Hannon.

"I think they will be accepted. I know I'm expected to say that, but from the experiences we have had so far, where people have seen them, we have had good feedback. They are easy to board, they are clean and safe and people like them."

Underground work and the laying of track foundations in central Dublin locations - including Harcourt Street, Middle Abbey Street, St Stephen's Green and Beresford Place - is due for completion by Christmas.

In the New Year, the remaining work will include the laying of pavement sections, resurfacing of roads and work on overhead power wires.

According to the RPA, this "lighter" work will not be disruptive to either motorists or pedestrians.

When the Luas is fully operational, it will include two main lines. Line B, which will serve thousands of commuters from the Sandyford Industrial Estate through St Stephen's Green, is on schedule for completion next March.

Following a three-month testing period, the line will open for the first time to the general public in May.

Line A, running from Tallaght to Abbey Street, will be fully operational by August.

The RPA has promised journey times of 38 minutes from the city centre to Tallaght and 22 minutes from Sandyford.

Trams will run every five or ten minutes, with tickets priced at Dublin Bus rates.

The three lines will be served by 40 trams with room for 235 passengers - 60 sitting and 75 standing.

Tram stops will comprise of two 50-metre platforms with shelters and ticket machines. Some will also feature park-and-ride facilities.

BrianD

I can not understand why so many people want to knock the Luas system. There are many Dublin sized cities putting in tram systems. There are many bigger cities using extensive tram networks e.g. Melbourne. Many of these networks use trams similar or identical to the units purchased for use in Dublin. So how come they work in these cities and commentators speculate that they won't in Dublin where they haven't even come online yet!!! Very Irish.

Luas will be a roaring success in Dublin and lets hope we see more lines being built. There is no doubt that the construction of the project has being plagues by bad project management and cost over runs. There are no excuses with this but once the trams are running the pain of the build will be forgotten.

Designing an underground system is a pipe dream and is both unnecessary and not cost effective. It means that public transport infrastructure can be long fingered by the decision makers. There is grounds for the construction of a line to the airport but that's it. Electrify our existing lines and build more tram lines and bus corridors.

Finally, why do we have to have so many names for our public transport - Dart, Arrow, Luas, Dublin Bus ... Rebrand the lot as DART would be a huge benefit to the marketing of the public transit system (along with integrated tucketing!).

Yoda

Originally posted by BrianD
Designing an underground system is a pipe dream and is both unnecessary and not cost effective.

I would disagree. See this.

Victor

Originally posted by BrianD
I can not understand why so many people want to knock the Luas system.

Much of the knocking is coming from business that has been disrupted by construction and parts of the media (especially the motoring media). Few enough are knocking the eventual effect it will have on the city, e.g. some people complain it will disrupt north-south traffic in the city centre (can be worked into existing traffic light sequences) or at the Red Cow roundabout (ditto). Any point it does effect will also see the even greater benefits.

maxheadroom

Originally posted by Yoda
I would disagree. See this.

I think I've seen that somewhere before, but I don't know if it has been given any real consideration by the transport planners in the city - it seems to be a better network schematic than the current / former metro proposals...

Yoda

James Nix said to me in early January that he has not heard a word from any of the authorities, but that he was preparing some more articles for the newspaper for publication this month.

loyatemu

James Nix said to me in early January that he has not heard a word from any of the authorities

The DTO have already spent a lot of time and money drawing lines on maps - I can't see them ditching their hypothetical plan in favour of someone elses.

juggie

Earth to Mars: Approx. 77 Million kms
NASA Spirit Cost: Approx. 321 Million
Launched: 10-06-2003
Landed: Jan 2004
Status: Working

Luas:
Length of first two lines: Approx. 25kms
Luas cost so far: Approx. 675 million
Construction of Line A, commenced in September 1999.
Status: Not working

ishmael whale

Weight of Mars rover: 180 kilogrammes

Weight of average person: 80 kilogrammes

Capacity of one Luas line: 2,844 Mars rovers per hour in each direction.

West Briton

I've seen this Luas and Mars thing word for word on a few other forums.

Of course, if I was a conspiracy theorist I would have thought that someone or some organisation with an axe to grind against Luas was putting it around to fling more mud against the project.

That doesn't happen in Ireland, does it

What's better sport is some of the scare stories that got floated around, which many took as gospel. One of the universities has the following online from one of its courses:

"The Government has spent tens of millions of Euros on the construction of the Sandyford Luas line. The line is a light rail system with a narrow gauge to permit it to operate on street. It is envisaged that at a future date it will be replaced by a metro heavy rail system with broad gauge tracks."

Spot the Balls.

The message from this piece is that the Sandyford line would have to be completely rebuilt to accommodate a metro. Wrong.

Victor

Originally posted by West Briton
"The Government has spent tens of millions of Euros on the construction of the Sandyford Luas line. The line is a light rail system with a narrow gauge to permit it to operate on street. It is envisaged that at a future date it will be replaced by a metro heavy rail system with broad gauge tracks."

Can you provide a link for this?

Broad gauge could be used, but it would make **no** sense on this section.

West Briton

But of course!

This is in power point form but if you google for Luas Gauge in Ireland you will be able to convert it into HTML.

http://www.ucd.ie/economic/teaching/micro2.ppt.