Why Do People Hate America

uaobrien

Okay, don't every U.S. loving individual crap themselves, this is actually the title of the book I just bought.

Apparently (judging the book by its cover) the authors believe that people envy what America has, and would like equal opportunities/luxuries/liberties. However the reason that these people HATE America is that they do not wish to have these things at the expense of their indigenous cultures.

It argues that America is willing to export everything American if, and only if, the recipients renounce who they are as peoples and reinvent themselves as pseudo-Americans.

Now, I would have argued against this up until the Iraq War. But when you think about it, it's not far off the mark.

Anyway, I thought I would throw it open, why do people hate America? Its easy to say its all George Junior's fault but lots of people have had a big grudge against them for a long time.

Personally, I don't hate America, I just think they have too much power and too few brain cells to use that power responsibly.

Villain

To put it simply, there too big for the their boots and their real motive is greed, Oil being a good example. If they were really interested in helping the world, they could spend some the money they use on developing weapons to stop millions dying of Famine each year. Idiolistic I know but hey its onlly my opinion.

sionnach

because it's ruled by big corporations and its actions are motivated by the wishes of these corporations

uaobrien

Originally posted by irish1
To put it simply, there too big for the their boots and their real motive is greed, Oil being a good example. If they were really interested in helping the world, they could spend some the money they use on developing weapons to stop millions dying of Famine each year. Idiolistic I know but hey its onlly my opinion.

Our govt. could have used the millions we spent on a Y2K clock under the surface of the Liffey, or the Spike, or Bertie bowl, or LUAS, or the new govt. jet etc. on the same things, so America doesn't have a monopoly on greed. And you don't see protesters outside the Dail 7 days a week.

But I agree, greed no doubt is some of the reason.

Villain

Originally posted by irish1 they could spend some the money they use on developing weapons to stop millions dying of Famine each year

Originally posted by uaobrien
Y2K clock under the surface of the Liffey, or the Spike, or Bertie bowl, or LUAS, or the new govt. jet

Yea but there not used to Kill people are they, I was drawing the comparison to the amount of money spent to kill people compared to that spent on saving lives

uaobrien

Originally posted by irish1
Yea but there not used to Kill people are they, I was drawing the comparison to the amount of money spent to kill people compared to that spent on saving lives

Good point, you're right. But in either case both our examples also refer to money spent.

But the difference between us and them (and I hate to admit that I'm starting to see their point of view) is that we believe in doing everything for everyone, they believe in having a person do things for themselves and have dignity in that fact.

Hence their welfare system is one year long, in that time the recipient gets back on their feet. Ours is a lifetime thing, so you really don't have to do much if you don't want to, someone will be along soon with a hand out.

Likewise, they'll contibute so much to other countries, and then say "that's all".

mr_angry

They flout international law, and say they are working for the best interests of the world, when they are not. Simple as that, really. George Bush wants to "save us all from the terrorists", but he wont save us all from breathing in greenhouse gasses (mainly because they're being pumped out by all of his contributors).

Having said that, I don't hate the American people (well, the intelligent ones anyway) - just the government. I wish the American people would stand up and put a decent governent in its place. Of course, thats not easy to do when so many of them are swayed by simple Yee-ha-ism, and Fox News push propaganda down their throats every day.

Villain

Ya there good points, but I still think there Foreign Policies are seriously fecked up and are leaning towards greed.

uaobrien

Originally posted by mr_angry
They flout international law, and say they are working for the best interests of the world, when they are not.

Actually I just remembered one other point the book makes. They say that America decides how the world should be and act, yet no-one can influence the actions or decisions of America.

uaobrien

Originally posted by irish1
Ya there good points, but I still think there Foreign Policies are seriously fecked up and are leaning towards greed.

uhhhhh.... okay, no argument here

Its not really a matter of hatred. For myself, i'm suspicious of them. But then i'm likely to be suspicious of any nation that powerful, and willing to use that power. No, to be perfectly, honest, i fear them a wee bit. They have the largest arsenal of Nuclear, Chemical, and Biological weapons, and yet Bush managed to get into power. Who next? A convicted mass murderer in 5 years time?

Other people might hate the US, but i daresay that they're people from countries that have faced US troops or attacks (this is not a condemnation of US foreign policy.) in the past. i.e. Some Arab nations, South American Countries etc.

MarkR

You seem to be confusing bush's foriegn policy with the attitude of the general population. Bertie let george w's planes land in Iraq, so it looks like you may be pro war in Iraq.

me? pro-Iraqi war? no comment. I dont want to get back into these discussions that go nowhere. Actually wasn't refering to Iraq. I was refering to Arab opinion in general.

MarkR, If ur last post had nothing to do with mine, well, :rolleyes:

uaobrien

Originally posted by MarkR
You seem to be confusing bush's foriegn policy with the attitude of the general population. Bertie let george w's planes land in Iraq, so it looks like you may be pro war in Iraq.

Are you asking me or klaz?

Exit

One of the main things that most people hate them for is their foreign policy, but that's already been pointed out and discussed here.

For me, it's also their arrogance.

The fact that they claim every country wants to be like theirs. Yes, the US has some good qualities that some countries look up to and envy, but the way they act, it's as if everyone else lives in a hellhole and we don't have the same 'freedoms' as they do.

Speaking on the 'freedoms' that they're so proud of, they don't realise how trapped they actually are. Their government obviously lies to them, as does their media, and if not it's not lying, then it's just not telling the truth. Censorship is rife. Speak out about the government or the military and you're branded as unpatriotic despite it being part of the Constitution that they value so much that free speech is guaranteed.

When I was in Canada, I was watching TBS (a cable channel I think, rather than a mainstream one) late one night, and they were showing Basic Instinct. I watched the first half hour of it, and guess what, there was no evidence of any sex whatsoever. I've seen the film before and it opens with a sex scene, lots of nudity, and then Sharon Stone's character picks up an ice-pick and stabs the guy. On TBS, it showed close-ups of their faces, and then she reaches for the ice-pick and stabs the guy. It's alright to show violence, but no nudity is tolerated whatsoever. And this was sometime after midnight! And of course in the next half hour or so, all nudity was just edited out of the film. How free is a society when nudity isn't tolerated at any hour of the day? Meanwhile in Canada, on the movie channels (equivalent of Sky movies), movies featuring language, violence and nudity are on early in the morning) I'm not necessarily saying that's right, but it's obviously a more freer country than the US. (And please, no jokes about Basic Instinct, you've all seen it too) And if the country is so free, why are the drug laws and homosexual laws not as liberal as other countries? Isn't homosexuality still outlawed in some states? Don't homosexuals have freedom to do what they want in such a free country?
EDIT: Not to mention Ashcroft's covering up of statues that had, wait for it, breasts!!

The gung ho, mindless, patriotic bull**** that the majority of their citizens come out with is just plain ignorant and stupid. And if you don't agree with them, you're either French or a terrorist sympathiser. So pathetic. A lot of them can't even find France or Iraq on a map. Hell, I was watching the Jay Leno show once and he does this thing where he goes out on the streets and asks Americans questions. Now obviously I know they only show the funniest answers, but one person didn't know who the first president of the United States was, and another thought that the 4th of July was Thanksgiving. Why the **** do I know more about your country than you do? Now, obviously not every American doesn't know these things, but the fact that some of them don't is just downright stupid. Another one was asked if you didn't live in America, where would you live? "Alaska" Leno laughed obviously, but didn't let on and asked "Why Alaska?" "Because it's cold, I like cold weather" "You know Alaska is part of America?" "Oh is it? I thought it was in Canada. In that case, I'd go to Australia" A lecturer once told our class that he was setting up a new webcam on his computer and wanted to try it out, so he was talking to an oldish American couple he didn't know, and it happened to be the 4th of July. And the American asked "So are you celebrating Independance Day over there?" "Eh, no we don't celebrate it here" And the American shouts to his wife in the background "Hey honey, they don't celebrate Independance Day over there!" Why the **** would anybody in another country celebrate American Independance?? I hate stupid people.

I hate the way we import all of their shows over here, yet when they find a (usually) British show they like, they don't import it, they remake it. So the majority of its American viewers (if there are any) just presume that it's an American show.

I hate their dumb gun laws. They act like it's a god given right for them to have guns, and don't see that they cause more harm than good.

This one is more North America than the US, but the way almost everyone has an SUV which eats up more fuel than any other car. Especially, as it's usually only got one person in it. It'd be understandable if you had 6 kids or you regularly went offroading, but these things are used in downtown New York! :rolleyes:

That's all I can think of right now, though I'm sure there's lots more that annoys me about America. And, of course there are plenty of things that I like and admire about America, but this isn't a thread about that.

To any Americans reading this that I may have offended, I'll just say that in my limited amount of time in the US, anybody I met was generally an all round nice person, apart from the border guards. They were dicks!

sparkite

i dont hate americans but when i see americans around ireland in the summer in an aran sweater tourist shop it just irritates me.i dont know why, it doesnt make sense and im wrong to be angry but hey,im just being honest.i do have a few american friends in college and get on well with them.i dont know what it is.

sovtek

Originally posted by sparkite
i dont hate americans but when i see americans around ireland in the summer in an aran sweater tourist shop it just irritates me.i dont know why, it doesnt make sense and im wrong to be angry but hey,im just being honest.i do have a few american friends in college and get on well with them.i dont know what it is.

That's a tourist your talking about and you could apply that across the board.
Like when 10,000 Spanish descend upon the bus stop at one time and keep me from getting the bus I was waiting half an hour for.
Germans that don't know how to queue...
Italians that don't tip and ask for bread constantly...
Brits that drink themselves stupid and act like the Republic is still part of the empire.
etc etc...

sparkite

true, i was just pointing out that it is easy to hate someone for no reason!

Exit

Originally posted by Exit
How free is a society when nudity isn't tolerated at any hour of the day?

Just reading through my own post, and I realise that this sentence is just funny, so I'm pointing it out before anyone else can. You know what I meant.

bus77

I dont like the constant showing off. The man on mars thing is a new example, the only reason they went "international" on the space station was because the russians had one first, no glory in it. (and no other country can afford it)

Their economy is fake/hype aswell, they havn't had another econonic crash because they've learned how to print magic money.
Thats why they sacked that honest accountant O'Neill.

sk_irl

Why do people hate america?
Well for one i dont think that very many people actually hate america as much as they would have it seen. after all how many people are actually willing to change the commercial way of life that we in ireland and the rest of europe have enjoyed quite a lot, and change it for a non comercial way of life? i knoe that it may be difficult to do so but it is most certainly possible.
As for the reason behind the hatred that some people have for america. well this hate can really be divided into two groups. that hate that originates from some muslim countries who quite rightly feel that their society is being westernised, whether or not you agree with their culture you cannot say that in many of these countries the ways of the western world are becoming the norm. those people see america as one of the repersentatives of the western way of life. the second of the two groups are those who are opposed to the commercialism that is currently running our world. here again america is seen as one of the main repersentatives of this commercial world.
So in short i think that amnerica bears the brunt of this hate against the western world because they have made the western world into such a commercial place and gain so much from this commercial world.

Sparks

Well, personally I hate americans because of their giant hairy earlobes. Downright deviant, they are. Not to mention their big yellow glowing eyes and those tentacles. *shudder*
Nope, only good american is a dead and sautee'd american. Mmmm. That's good eating, that is...

Zaphod B

Yes well clearly we're all just jealous :rolleyes:

I have to admit it would be nice to live in a place where I never have to feel remotely guilty about my country's actions because...

1) School history classes would have ignored all genocide and imperialism we indulged in.
2) I'd know that people who hate us are either jealous, freedom-haters or of course that wonderful explain-everything-away-in-four-letters word, eeeeeevil...
3) I'd know that everything we do is unquestionably just and right, because God is on our side.

Do I hate America as an institution? Not particularly. Do I hate Americans? No, I don't hate any entire racial group. Do I disagree with a lot of American politics? Yes. Do I agree with a lot of Italian politics? Yes. Which affects me more directly? Go on, guess. So which am I going to be more vocal in criticising? That's right, the USA.

If I had to pick particular things I dislike about America, they would be...
: Religious fundamentalism.
: The sheer money-grabbing greed. I'm sorry but it is more evident than in other countries. I'll never forget the TV ad for the local lawyer I saw in Williamsburg, VA... "We use every method possible to squeeze every dollar possible from every person possible"... I sh!t you not.
: The insistence on reminding the people every day exactly how wonderful they are and what a great place they live in.
: Texas, need I say more?

Then again, there are plenty of things about America that I think are great, but that would be off-topic

BattleBoar

LOL, I think you'll find a lot of Americans that don't like Texas!

vorbis

zaphod b, our own history classes up to junior cert conveniently leave out most of the detail about he civil war of 1921. A lot of countries have selective memories. Also religious fundamentalism?? Isn't that a bit strong?

Honestly, I think most people like to hate America. As a previous poster said we can blame them for not curing the world's ills. There's some truth in it but we're just as guilty as well.

ll=llannah

a lot of people think that it is cool to hate america and blame all the worlds problems on every single person in america for being greedy, being from texas, liking george bush, going to yale cause daddy went there (which isn't true really anymore, even if you're parents went to ivy league and your grades stink, you WILL not get in, unless your daddy's rich and famous and the president in which case....meh)
America has done a lot of stupid and hideous and greedy, self-involved things. It's also done a lot of good.
Hating america won't solve anything. There's a lot of people in america who are trying to make it a better place. But you know, that's just cause their selfish greedy bastards who are letting their ten gallon hats droop over their eyes and obstruct their vision, right?
I don't like the same things others don't like in america, but that doesn't mean i hate the country in general. all the flags everywhere get annoying though.

uaobrien

Originally posted by twix_girl
a lot of people think that it is cool to hate america and blame all the worlds problems on every single person in america for being greedy, being from texas, liking george bush, going to yale cause daddy went there (which isn't true really anymore, even if you're parents went to ivy league and your grades stink, you WILL not get in, unless your daddy's rich and famous and the president in which case....meh)
America has done a lot of stupid and hideous and greedy, self-involved things. It's also done a lot of good.
Hating america won't solve anything. There's a lot of people in america who are trying to make it a better place. But you know, that's just cause their selfish greedy bastards who are letting their ten gallon hats droop over their eyes and obstruct their vision, right?
I don't like the same things others don't like in america, but that doesn't mean i hate the country in general. all the flags everywhere get annoying though.

Wow, just a hint of ranting and raving there... is that what living in Brooklyn does to a person?

uaobrien

Okay, a lot of interesting and way whacked out (Sparks) points being made. But as my wife (who is an American) says "hate" is a strong word.

As I stated earlier, I personally don't hate America/ns. I don't even dislike them. I think there are good ones (Powell springs to mind) and bad ones (can't get Bush out of that position in my mind).

But how many of us actually hate them or their institution? I can understand religious fundamentalists "convincing" their students and followers to hate America. But as "moderate" Europeans, does anyone really hate America or is it just a strong dislike?

I know, I'm dealing with semantics, but one involves the desire to see harm done (IMHO) and the other is just merely a disdain for all (stupid) things American.

uaobrien

Originally posted by Sparks
Well, personally I hate americans because of their giant hairy earlobes. Downright deviant, they are. Not to mention their big yellow glowing eyes and those tentacles. *shudder*
Nope, only good american is a dead and sautee'd american. Mmmm. That's good eating, that is...

As always Sparks, you managed to cut through the subterfuge and hidden pretext of an issue and get down to the heart of the matter. I applaud your candor and elder statesman-like observations.

Geromino

Originally posted by sk_irl
Why do people hate america?
Well for one i dont think that very many people actually hate america as much as they would have it seen. after all how many people are actually willing to change the commercial way of life that we in ireland and the rest of europe have enjoyed quite a lot, and change it for a non comercial way of life? i knoe that it may be difficult to do so but it is most certainly possible.
As for the reason behind the hatred that some people have for america. well this hate can really be divided into two groups. that hate that originates from some muslim countries who quite rightly feel that their society is being westernised, whether or not you agree with their culture you cannot say that in many of these countries the ways of the western world are becoming the norm. those people see america as one of the repersentatives of the western way of life. the second of the two groups are those who are opposed to the commercialism that is currently running our world. here again america is seen as one of the main repersentatives of this commercial world.
So in short i think that amnerica bears the brunt of this hate against the western world because they have made the western world into such a commercial place and gain so much from this commercial world.

Just want to say, that was an excellent remark. My hat goes off to you.

Geromino

Originally posted by bus77
I dont like the constant showing off. The man on mars thing is a new example, the only reason they went "international" on the space station was because the russians had one first, no glory in it. (and no other country can afford it)

Their economy is fake/hype aswell, they havn't had another econonic crash because they've learned how to print magic money.
Thats why they sacked that honest accountant O'Neill.

Correction there buddy. Our monetary system is based on a economic theory called Monetarism. It is through the expansion and subtraction of the money supply, via through the money demand, that controls the economy. Thus having a flexible monetary system that can quickly react to economic changes will lessen the effects of recession or inflation and restrict any expansive out of control economy. In other words, what you want are gentle waves with shallow troughs rather than sharp inclines and declines during a specific time period. If you have the later, you will have a more reluctant consumer group that will in time not adhere to any market increase and exaborrate any market declines. An expansion of the money supply does not necessarily equate to printing more money. It actually has to do with the expansion of credit (loans) and financial capital that improves/expands a nation's economy. It is far different from Keynsian economics where the central government is the authoritive in making economic decisions.

As far as the Mars and space exploration, it is not a question of showing off, but a question of improving scientific achievements that humans tend to expand. The advances in technology will be used by the general public in a very short time. If you ever wondered how microwave dinners that established or concentrated drinks, one only has to look at the Apollo missions for that simple answer.

red vex

i dont hate americans but i do hate
1 American foreign policy
2 The blind belief by some americans that anything associated to the stars and stripes is infallable(sp?).
3 The two faced approach they have almost always taken to their responsibility to the international community.

Anybody see that program about sexual abstinance in texas? you dont have to be a palestinian suicide bomber to be a fanatic. nor do you have to grow up in the slums of rwanda to be easily misled.

Geromino

Originally posted by BattleBoar
LOL, I think you'll find a lot of Americans that don't like Texas!

Not to mention Kalifornia!

By the way, one must be careful in calling someone a yank in America. There are some groups (southerners to be precise) that take that word as an insult and deragatory. They prefer confederates or rebels. LOL

sovtek

Not that I'm an American apologist (being hard since I'm American) and people here that are familiar with my posts would know that I'm not....
I just have a few little nitpicks on the following.

Originally posted by Zaphod B
: Religious fundamentalism.

Yeesss, wellll Ummmmmmm yeah huh huh.....
But there is still the matter of abortion rights in Ireland (ok my currently un-elected president is doing his damndest to make that the case in America, and at the UN) and millions of my tax dollars aren't going toward defending pedafile priests.

: The sheer money-grabbing greed.

I don't deny that but....
The Irish insurance industry, pub industry, grocers, corner shops, auto industry, tradesmen, landlords, restaurants, doctors, dentists, pharmacists, off-license...etc...did I leave anything out?

: The insistence on reminding the people every day exactly how wonderful they are and what a great place they live in.

*cough*

: Texas, need I say more?

Hey, it ain't all bad... off the top of my head...Janis Joplin, Fred Cuney, Bill Hicks....
Me!

BTW The Bushes are from Connecticut not Texas and that ranch in Crawford was built as a campaign ploy in '99.

red vex

somebody on the radio was on about the "right tack/wrong track theory" and that 80% of americans believe bush is making progress. Do people see the US having a better image say 10 years down the road?

Geromino

Originally posted by red vex
Anybody see that program about sexual abstinance in texas? you dont have to be a palestinian suicide bomber to be a fanatic. nor do you have to grow up in the slums of rwanda to be easily misled.

In Asian cultures, abstinance is an integral part of life. Pre-marital sex is a foreign concept brought by an uncivilized society (thats western culture) to dominate their cultural and social context. For example, Chinese men hate western men for coming and "taking their women" (marriage and having pre-marital sex) and view such actions with the upmost contempt. Not exaclty fanaticsm is it. However, do not confuse some of their social/cultural personification as that being with Europe. For example, in Japan and Korea, you have public bath houses. But do not compare this with some nudist beach in Europe. If you take care to notice, each person, although naked, does not acknowledge any other presence around them. For example, in a male model was taking a bath next to a femal model (let's say, neither of them is married), you will not even see eye contact or even couriosity. They will pretend not to see each other, nor anyone else, when taking their "bath." It is quite a unique experience if one has the opportuinity. In contrast, Amsterdam has put a unique definition of "window shopping" in its red light district IMHO.

Personally, I was raised you do not have sex until you are married. When you are married, you only have sex with your wife, not your mistress, your ex-girlfriend, or your office worker. But that is part of my culture. It is not the same of a Palestian suicide bomber to blow himself and as many as others simply you are not one of them. That is ludicrous.

red vex

point taken but its nothing to do with what i was getting at. A friend i was watching it with me and he said "Its like the nurenburg rally". What im trying to say is that for a country that belives itself to be very open minded, they(generalizing a lot) tend to look at a lot of foriegn cultures with an enormous amount of undue critism.
There was a politcal blunders award show on during the week and they showed multiple clips of bushs mistakes. it was actually disturbing how little he knew about the world outside us borders.

leonotron

Originally posted by sparkite
i dont hate americans but when i see americans around ireland in the summer in an aran sweater tourist shop it just irritates me.i dont know why, it doesnt make sense and im wrong to be angry but hey,im just being honest.i do have a few american friends in college and get on well with them.i dont know what it is.

Why does it irratate you? Irish people are making good money off these suckers, especially the price they pay for these sweaters. Do all the irish goons who wear NY or NYPD tshirts irratate you?

Matt Simis

Well, one thing that irks me is that some high ranking Americans believe they should "own" and control space in general and certainly near-earth space.

I found this:
http://www.warpeace.org/Current/who.html , but there was also a thread here with more info. Ideas proposed were the building of weaponry to destroy non-US space craft and phrases like "former allies will just have to accept it", the idea that the US will grant "permission" to travel into space in the future.

Still, its reassuring that its not just "World" Domination that is on the minds of some in US Government.



Matt

Gillie

Hate the fact that they think they know what's best for the world!:mad:
The fact that they act on everyones behalf in the name of Peace/Anti-terrorism/Greed!

The Country and the ppl i'm sure are ok in General!
Just the Government!:mad:

Hobbes

Originally posted by sk_irl
that hate that originates from some muslim countries who quite rightly feel that their society is being westernised, whether or not you agree with their culture you cannot say that in many of these countries the ways of the western world are becoming the norm.

Watch 'A fish called Wanda' Where John Cleese is talking about Americans (near the end of the movie). Sums up what you said.

There a whole range of Muslim cultures who have democratic societies. What they don't like is another country fuk'ing with them.

I think we can all agree on that.

You want to know why they are annoyed?

Because the US preaches about fair play, high ideals to live to, human rights and other freedoms (seriously they are force fed this crap from baby school up) and then totally ignore what they preach, especially when it comes to the rest of the world (which it treats as second class humans, and should be thankful for it). The only difference now recently is they are a bit more relaxed about doing it to thier own population now.

As far as the Mars and space exploration, it is not a question of showing off, but a question of improving scientific achievements that humans tend to expand.

Sorry but the recent US announcement is only because China are making huge strides and are planning a heck of lot more vs the US while the US sits on its behind.

If you ever wondered how microwave dinners that established or concentrated drinks, one only has to look at the Apollo missions for that simple answer.

Geez I wouldn't brag about inventing the microwave dinner.. anyway I am pretty sure it wasn't invented by Nasa.

red vex

That whole space thing was about the DoD trying to arm the sapce station and the us partners threatened to withdraw from the project. Real bully boy tactics. what would it have achieved. Global security?

Geromino

Originally posted by red vex
point taken but its nothing to do with what i was getting at. A friend i was watching it with me and he said "Its like the nurenburg rally". What im trying to say is that for a country that belives itself to be very open minded, they(generalizing a lot) tend to look at a lot of foriegn cultures with an enormous amount of undue critism.
There was a politcal blunders award show on during the week and they showed multiple clips of bushs mistakes. it was actually disturbing how little he knew about the world outside us borders.

I think I have not seen the show in which you are referring to, so I cannot comment on the "Nurembury rally" remark. However, I could apply your analogy to practically every nation, to one degree or another, in the example you have just given.

Clod

I don't hate it, I like it.

Just remember you'd be speaking German if it wasn't for the Yanks.
And if the Islamic fundamentalists got their way you'd be speaking ..... whatever the f*ck language they use. Oh wait, you wouldn't, because they actually want to wipe out western civilization altogether. You have to look at the bigger picture. And I said "fundamentalists" because I know the majority of muslims don't share their views, so don't accuse me of racism.

I might also remind you of who got the job done in Kosovo. Right on Europe's doorstep and yet again the U.S. sorts it out. There was resistance to U.S. involvment in this crisis also.
As regards Iraq, people are too hasty in judging the U.S. Give it five years and see how it's doing then. It's not even a year since the war ended. And it has ended. It's just a bunch of former Baath party members and the Al-Quaeeda boys causing the trouble at present. That's to be expected. When WWII ended there was still resistance from some elements within Germany.

Matt Simis

Originally posted by Clod
I don't hate it, I like it.

Just remember you'd be speaking German if it wasn't for the Yanks.
And if the Islamic fundamentalists got their way you'd be speaking ..... whatever the f*ck language they use. Oh wait, you wouldn't, because they actually want to wipe out western civilization altogether. You have to look at the bigger picture. And I said "fundamentalists" because I know the majority of muslims don't share their views, so don't accuse me of racism.

I might also remind you of who got the job done in Kosovo. Right on Europe's doorstep and yet again the U.S. sorts it out. There was resistance to U.S. involvment in this crisis also.
As regards Iraq, people are too hasty in judging the U.S. Give it five years and see how it's doing then. It's not even a year since the war ended. And it has ended. It's just a bunch of former Baath party members and the Al-Quaeeda boys causing the trouble at present. That's to be expected. When WWII ended there was still resistance from some elements within Germany.

Pretty much everything there is a half truth or misleading, another reason people dislike the US (even if you arent American, you are spouting the same BS some of them do).

Bush said the "war" isnt over btw. Besides, the "war on terrorism" will never end.


Matt

uaobrien

Originally posted by Clod
I don't hate it, I like it.

Just remember you'd be speaking German if it wasn't for the Yanks.
And if the Islamic fundamentalists got their way you'd be speaking ..... whatever the f*ck language they use. Oh wait, you wouldn't, because they actually want to wipe out western civilization altogether. You have to look at the bigger picture. And I said "fundamentalists" because I know the majority of muslims don't share their views, so don't accuse me of racism.

I might also remind you of who got the job done in Kosovo. Right on Europe's doorstep and yet again the U.S. sorts it out. There was resistance to U.S. involvment in this crisis also.
As regards Iraq, people are too hasty in judging the U.S. Give it five years and see how it's doing then. It's not even a year since the war ended. And it has ended. It's just a bunch of former Baath party members and the Al-Quaeeda boys causing the trouble at present. That's to be expected. When WWII ended there was still resistance from some elements within Germany.

Okay, first of all I can't believe you took the time to write that and it not be a joke.

Second, no-one disputes the contribution the U.S. made to the world with their intervention in WWII. I have nothing but the utmost respect for the men who laid their lives on the line in that conflict.

And how can I accuse you of racism when you pointed out that you know the majority of Muslims aren't fundamentalists. Hmmm, oh right, because they speak the "whatever the f*ck language" that the fundamentalists use. Its called Arabic, French, Chinese, English, Spanish and a number of other languages that the population of the world speaks in various areas. Muslims aren't a subset, they're an integrated part of society, same as Christians, Jews, Buddhists etc. They're Americans, British, Irish, Turkish, Iranian, Chinese... and so on, you moron.

And last I checked, E.T.A. aren't predominantly Muslim, neither are F.A.R.C., U.D.A., U.F.F., F.P.M.R/D., E.Z.L.N., yet I don't see any mention of them on either your list of terrorists or Bush's.

As for Kosovo, last I checked the U.S. were in as part of a U.N. mission. And I suppose you would say there is a purely humanitarian reason to the U.S. building three bases in Kosovo. Nothing at all to do with the Stari Trg mining complex and it's huge veins of lead, zinc, cadmium, gold and silver. Or the lignite deposits, enough lignite for 1300 years. How about the 17 billion tons of coal reserves in Kosovo?

As for Iraq, sure let's give it 5 years. I'm sure after 5 years of ambushes and car bombs, you'll have proved your point at the cost of countless American and Iraqi lives. But by then your average Iraqi should be completely sick and tired of American "occupation" and will consider it an insult to his manhood and culture that Americans are still in his country, which is why he'll revolt, with a few thousand or so buddies. They may be sponsored by their "brothers" you know, the fundamentalists. And then how many Americans will die?

Oh hang on, I get it now, you're Donald Rumsfeld.

Dr. Loon

Originally posted by Geromino
Correction there buddy.

I hate that shít! Arrogance. That is all.

Clod

Originally posted by Matt Simis
Pretty much everything there is a half truth or misleading, another reason people dislike the US (even if you arent American, you are spouting the same BS some of them do).
Bush said the "war" isnt over btw. Besides, the "war on terrorism" will never end.

I meant the Iraq war, which that was obvious. By the way which statement was a half truth or misleading?
I'm Irish, BTW.

Originally posted by uaobrien
Okay, first of all I can't believe you took the time to write that and it not be a joke.

If you're looking for a joke look at the U.N. in times of crisis.

And how can I accuse you of racism when you pointed out that you know the majority of Muslims aren't fundamentalists. Hmmm, oh right, because they speak the "whatever the f*ck language" that the fundamentalists use. Its called Arabic, French, Chinese, English, Spanish and a number of other languages that the population of the world speaks in various areas. Muslims aren't a subset, they're an integrated part of society, same as Christians, Jews, Buddhists etc. They're Americans, British, Irish, Turkish, Iranian, Chinese... and so on, you moron.

Point taken. I'll rephrase that sentence to make it more palatble for you:
"And if the Islamic fundamentalists got their way you'd be speaking ..... Arabic, French, Chinese, English, Spanish and a number of other languages that the population of the world speaks in various areas." Happy now?

And last I checked, E.T.A. aren't predominantly Muslim, neither are F.A.R.C., U.D.A., U.F.F., F.P.M.R/D., E.Z.L.N., yet I don't see any mention of them on either your list of terrorists or Bush's.

What are you talking about, I didn't post a list of terrorists. I hate it when people put words in your mouth to fit their arguments.

As for Kosovo, last I checked the U.S. were in as part of a U.N. mission.

Yeah a U.N. that didn't want the U.S. to act. All the U.N. is good for is dialogue. When dialogue has failed, as it sometimes does, what do they do? Try more dialogue........ meanwhile thousands of civialians are killed or displaced(Kosovo). That's why rogue nations don't care about the U.N.

And I suppose you would say there is a purely humanitarian reason to the U.S. building three bases in Kosovo. Nothing at all to do with the Stari Trg mining complex and it's huge veins of lead, zinc, cadmium, gold and silver. Or the lignite deposits, enough lignite for 1300 years. How about the 17 billion tons of coal reserves in Kosovo?

Don't give me that crap about the U.S. only exercising it's power in the exploitiation of other nations. Have they used military force to take over those mines in Kosovo? No, so what the hell are you talking about.
If they cleaned up Somalia you'd accuse them of doing it for the sand.

As for Iraq, sure let's give it 5 years. I'm sure after 5 years of ambushes and car bombs, you'll have proved your point at the cost of countless American and Iraqi lives. But by then your average Iraqi should be completely sick and tired of American "occupation" and will consider it an insult to his manhood and culture that Americans are still in his country, which is why he'll revolt, with a few thousand or so buddies. They may be sponsored by their "brothers" you know, the fundamentalists. And then how many Americans will die?

The Americans plan to pull out in the Summer. Actually a bit too early for my liking, but Bush has an election to consider.

uaobrien

Originally posted by Clod
If you're looking for a joke look at the U.N. in times of crisis.

Last I checked our boys in the military went willingly to keep the peace in Kosovo. Maybe they're part of the joke too? Or is it only the American military who are good enough to police the world in your opinion?

Shame you don't tell that to the families of our military who died in service with the U.N., "I grieve for the loss of your son, but he was part of a joke and not the U.S. military which obviously saves the world every time it leaves home"

Point taken. I'll rephrase that sentence to make it more palatble for you:
"And if the Islamic fundamentalists got their way you'd be speaking ..... Arabic, French, Chinese, English, Spanish and a number of other languages that the population of the world speaks in various areas." Happy now?...

What are you talking about, I didn't post a list of terrorists. I hate it when people put words in your mouth to fit their arguments.

How about quit with your narrow point of view that the only terrorists worth worrying about are the terrorists the U.S. are worried about. And how about crediting the faith of Islam enough to realise that the "fundamentalists" are Muslim in name only. What about fundamentalist Christians or fundamentalist Jews. Not everything "fundamentalist" is synonymous with "terrorist". Your beloved hero, Georgey Boy classes himself as a "Fundamentalist Christian". I guess by your definition he must be a terrorist.

Yeah a U.N. that didn't want the U.S. to act. All the U.N. is good for is dialogue. When dialogue has failed, as it sometimes does, what do they do? Try more dialogue........ meanwhile thousands of civialians are killed or displaced(Kosovo). That's why rogue nations don't care about the U.N.

Well since your so fond of blazing a path of lead, what's stopping you from signing up and doing your part. Or maybe its good to talk about fighting terrorists in war zones as long as you can do from the comfort of your home.

Don't give me that crap about the U.S. only exercising it's power in the exploitiation of other nations. Have they used military force to take over those mines in Kosovo? No, so what the hell are you talking about.
If they cleaned up Somalia you'd accuse them of doing it for the sand.

Funny thing is, with no benefits to the U.S., they bailed out of Somalia after the slaughter of their elite (for whom I have the greatest respect). That was purely humanitarian, but didn't last when the U.S. body count rose.

The Americans plan to pull out in the Summer. Actually a bit too early for my liking, but Bush has an election to consider.

:rolleyes:

Do you even realize how you contradicted your last point. You say the U.S. are interested in humanitarian missions, then why pull out because of an election? Surely the safety of the Iraqi people and the world transcends political ambition and re-election?

My advice to you, is grow up, grab a weapon, go stand where they stand and have stood then come back and espouse your viewpoint. We'll respect it a lot more then.

uaobrien

Originally posted by Geromino
Not to mention Kalifornia!

By the way, one must be careful in calling someone a yank in America. There are some groups (southerners to be precise) that take that word as an insult and deragatory. They prefer confederates or rebels. LOL

Or Klansmen

Clod

How about quit with your narrow point of view that the only terrorists worth worrying about are the terrorists the U.S. are worried about. And how about crediting the faith of Islam enough to realise that the "fundamentalists" are Muslim in name only. What about fundamentalist Christians or fundamentalist Jews. Not everything "fundamentalist" is synonymous with "terrorist". Your beloved hero, Georgey Boy classes himself as a "Fundamentalist Christian". I guess by your definition he must be a terrorist.

I never gave a definition of a terrorist or said if someone is fundamentalist they're also a terrorist. There you go again, putting words in my mouth to fit your argument.
Stop it.

My advice to you, is grow up, grab a weapon, go stand where they stand and have stood then come back and espouse your viewpoint. We'll respect it a lot more then.

So I have to go to war to have a viewpoint? Tell me, what was the last war you participated in that makes your views so relevant?

And what's this we business? You only speak for yourself.