Not wishing to depress any further anyone already depressed ...

Victor

... lads look afters yereselves.

http://home.eircom.net/content/unison/national/2319220?view=Eircomnet

Young men face 'frightening' suicide risk - health experts
From:The Irish Independent
Friday, 9th January, 2004
Gordon Deegan

MANY young men are finding it difficult to cope with life's problems, according to a new Irish study on male suicide.

The ground-breaking study found that almost two-thirds of young men believe their lot is getting worse.

One in three said they had little control over their lives. The same number rated their problems as "insurmountable" and felt they were being "pushed around in life".

Although many are "particularly vulnerable and feel ill-equipped to cope with life today" they do not seek help, the survey by the Mid-Western Health Board found.

The results of the study into the mental health and attitude towards suicide of young males in the mid-west were yesterday described as "frightening" and "worrying" by a consultant psychiatrist.

Dr Moosajee Bhamjee was commenting ahead of the presentation of the study to the health board today.

The report, entitled 'The Male Perspective - Young Men's Outlook on Life', found that vulnerable males who feel ill-equipped to cope with life "do not generally seek hospital or professional support, even if they engage in self-harm behaviours".

"The random sample of males residing in the mid-west has identified that suicidal ideation, resistance to professional help-seeking, and pessimism about the future exists in the male psyche," said health board spokesman, James Conway.

Mr Conway said the findings indicated that attention needed to focus on marketing male-orientated health services.

The report was prepared by the health board in partnership with the National Suicide Group and the National Suicide Research Foundation.

It found that almost 50pc of the men surveyed experienced suicidal thoughts, while 4pc actually planned their own suicides.

The report found that "males in the discussion groups felt that professional help was seen as a last resort" and took the view that "no matter what the problem is, you can always sort it out yourself".

The report found that "70pc of men indicated that they have a drink when worried or upset, while the vast majority get angry, at least sometimes."

The report also recorded that 60pc of the men surveyed said that they would turn to their mother for support, while it also found that, of those living with partners, less than half stated that they would seek support from their partners.

Consultant psychiatrist and former TD, Dr Moosajee Bhamjee, said yesterday that the findings of the report were alarming.

"That so many young men believe that they can solve their mental health by themselves is frightening."

Dr Bhamjee said that the finding that so many young men turn to alcohol when upset was also "a cause for concern".

He said: "There is an acute need to bring mental health services nearer to these young males: there should be walk-in counselling services for example."

The president of the Irish Association of Suicideology, Fine Gael TD Dan Neville, welcomed the report.

"There is a dearth of research on this issue and I am not surprised by the findings. Society doesn't allow males to express themselves and the 'stiff upper lip' attitude prevails."

Mr Neville branded Government funding of mental health services as "a disgrace". He warned that services were not readily available in rural areas and said it was vital the findings of the report be acted upon.

http://home.eircom.net/content/unison/national/2319226?view=Eircomnet

Sorry lads, but simply being male is dangerous to your health
From:The Irish Independent
Friday, 9th January, 2004
Eilish O'Regan

BEING a man is dangerous to your health and Irishmen are dying six years before their womenfolk, a new report has revealed.

The report on men's health to be published next week will show men have higher death rates at all ages for all the leading causes.

The report from the Men's Health Forum in Ireland also shows men are reluctant to go to their doctors and often present late in the course of an illness.

Men from the lower occupational classes also have worse health than the better off; and overall, men are four times more likely to die by suicide than women.

The sex differences in mortality figures are also pronounced in the case of road traffic accidents.

The report says social and economic roles of men and women are changing, but traditional mores and attitudes towards gender remain prevalent. "Boys and young men continue to be socialised to appear in control, to be strong and to take risks; thus reinforcing their exposure to illness and accidental deaths."

The report will call for more research into men's health amid criticism too much focus has been placed on women's health issues.

Sarky

Makes a certain sense, I guess. People don't have as much control of ther own lives as they used to. That's today's society for you. And let's face it, there is a tendancy for males to like being in control, or believing they should be in control. But occasionally we all get the feeling that "society" would function perfectly well without us, or that "society" has pretty much set our futures in stone regardless of what we want to do.

How you deal with that is the important bit though.

feylya

I know more blokes that are, tbh, more ****ed up than women. Walk in conselling will not help at all. I doubt anyone I know will use them.

Sarky

Stupid laddish culture.

Quatre Mains

- I can't say those figures come as a big surprise to me. Caught a few mins of a discussion on this on Newstalk this morning. I've no trainng in this field, but its not too difficult to pinpoint some of the factors influencing this issue -

1. Financial pressure of massive mortgages + keeping up with percieved standard of living.

2. Sexual issues(where to start?) including male/female ratio in rural areas, problems around homosexuality(there isn't exactly a big 'out' gay population or social centres for same in the bog), and plain old not getting any. Lets face it, even the ugliest girls in a club can usually cop off but you can't say anything like the same for men.

3. Stiff upper lip attitude as already mentioned, and stigmatism attached to whole mental health issue.

4. GP's inability/lack of willingness to help bar throw out pills - counselling, tho not for everyone, should still be explored more. In Ireland it seems that you only get referred to a counsellor if you're eating mice or making animal sounds. Large medical expenses for visits and prescriptions also a factor

- the problem is solving these issues. :dunno:

deimos

I can already see everything going downhill for me and I would consider myself relatively young...

I would assume many have the same feeling or anticipation of life?

Sarky

Yup. In a way, there's doesn't seem to be much to look forward to.

That's the thing, though. It only seems that way. If you focus, you can always find something worth hanging on for.

sceptre

Originally posted by Sarky
But occasionally we all get the feeling that "society" would function perfectly well without us

That's because the odds are really good that "society" would and will function perfectly well without me, you or anyone else reading, even if you print this out and show it to as many people as you can find.

How you deal with that is the important bit though.

Yup

Paddy20

Whoever told us that life was going to be easy ?..
It can be great, the world really is your oyster,why not swallow it !.

Its a new year. Why not make a new start, give happiness a chance. If you never let the sunshine into your life, it can be very dark, and who the hell needs that.

Grab life by the throat and shake it for all its worth. Its magic.

P.:ninja:

Victor

More...

http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/breaking/2353185?view=Eircomnet

Irish men take more risks and die younger - study
From:ireland.com
Thursday, 15th January, 2004

Irish men have the lowest life expectancy of all males in European because they take risks with their health, a study indicated today.

The study was carried out by a voluntary all-Ireland network of individuals and organisations, the Men's Health Forum in Ireland (MHFI), which re-examined published health research in the context of men's health in the north and south Ireland.

Their findings, published by Men's Health in Ireland today, indicate that Irish males die six years earlier than Irish women.

In fact, according to Mr Noel Richardson, forum chairman, men die in greater numbers at all ages from all diseases when compared with women.

Men living in Ireland die at an average age of 73, two years before males in Britain.

Behind this higher morbidity rate is a reluctance by men to visit their doctor with eight out of ten admitting they waited too long before consulting their GP, said Mr Richardson, who co-authored the report.

Mr Richardson also noted that research showed that men from the lower occupational classes have worse health in all years and for all conditions when compared to men in the highest occupational class.

He stressed the "clear gender differences" in behavioural terms which undermine male health. The report identifies that men take part in risky behaviors "that are culturally defined as masculine to 'prove' their masculinity".

This recklessness is borne out by data for road traffic accidents which indicates that men are five times more likely to be killed in a crash than females, Mr Richardson suggested. In 2001 93 per cent of the 6,790 people convicted of drink driving by gardai were male.

Establishing an all-Island advisory group for men's health is the main recommendation in the MHFI study. This body would "provide terms of reference in relation to men's health and monitor and assess progress made both south and north of the country".

It also suggests more wide-spread research and data collection and the development of a policy for men's health development for all men on the Island similar to that adopted by the Department of Health in 1995.

The study was funded by Yamanouchi Europe, a pharmaceutical company which produces a treatment for prostate disorders.

echomadman

4. GP's inability/lack of willingness to help bar throw out pills... <snip>.. Large medical expenses for visits and prescriptions also a factor

This is my single main reason for not going to my GP, I grew up watching my local GP firing out strong anti-depressants and painkillers to all and sundry, one time when I had to go to a doctor due to severe food poisoning and a kidney infection, he spent most of the session trying to convince me i had an STD, and was gruff and unhelpful, I was made to feel i was wasting his time.

GPs surgerys seem to have adopted a henry ford attitude, people are moved along the conveyor belt, and dont get the doctors full attention imo.
When I went to a different GP for my ulcers he was a much nicer guy, but clearly overworked and was inclined to jump to conclusions before i'd explained my symptoms, reccomending things that he would have known I'd already tried if he'd looked at my medical history. I felt like he was thinking about the waiting room full of people behind me and how long until he finished for the day.

And for this priviledge we have to cough up exorbitant amounts of cash, no thanks.

mike65

Its a strange thing, I'm old enough to have been around in the 80s when everything was in black and white. Okay everything was relativly crap - no jobs, no net, no future.
The modern young male would seem to have much more to live for and yet can't see it.

Mike.

Atreides

Hands up all those that have sought help when they where at their lowest... hands up.. yep thats what i thought. I know several ****ed up males, but the fact is that if i was in their situation i wouldn't go to some concillor. The male role in irish society is constantly being eroded

Victor

Originally posted by mike65
The modern young male would seem to have much more to live for and yet can't see it.

You are forgetting expectation inflation. "Everyone" in Ireland was poor in the 1980s. Now there are some mega-rich people. This creates a phenomenon of relative failure - "someone else is winning so I am losing".

Crucifix

I can't back up the statistic, but I remember my religon teacher saying more males under the age of 18 die through suicide than road accidents.
Personally, I think i've resigned myself to the fact that life is always going to be kind of bad, but I might aswell ride it out for the enjoyable parts as long as I can.

Victor

Originally posted by Crucifix
I can't back up the statistic, but I remember my religon teacher saying more males under the age of 18 die through suicide than road accidents.

Overall more people die through suicide (85% male) than road deaths (75% male). However, the figures will vary between age groups. I **suspect** in the 18-14 group more die in road deaths. In the 55+ age group more would also die in road deaths than suicide.

DriftingRain

I think most males are more inclined to commit suicide because there taught to keep their feelings inside and to "not cry it;s not manly.". Whilst women will cry and 10 mins later feel better having let it out! It may not be much of a point but....the male population could be taught a thing or two about how to show their feelings!


~DR~

xx

I was fairly close to the brink once, back about 1998. Even wrote a letter, a suicide note if you will, and was 'this' close to just doing it, killing myself. But somehow, I don't know how, I pulled myself back from the edge. When you really get that low where you actually envy the dead for being dead and not having to worry about anything, thats a bad point to be in. Seriously, when you are down in irish society, things have a habit of snowballing and everyone wants to take a piece of you.
Anyway, point is that something in me just thought that there had to be more than life than what was happening to me. I'd look at other people on the street, see couples holding hands (I was very single at the time), seeing people happy and think "why can't I be like that". So basically over the course of a week or so after I wrote that letter, I began to claw myself back. There was no dramatic "I'M BACK!!!" feeling; just a slow eb in the direction of wanting to life. After that, I worked out my own set of ideals and tried to be happy in doing what I enjoyed doing, not what society deemed to be success. I still do, to this day. I guess you could call it taking life on my own terms. Looking back now, I can't believe I ever got that low, but it does put things in perspective. Thats why when I read these studies all I can do is nod and think "that was me".
I never went to therapy, and in hindsight I don't think that it would have done me any good. Ironic now that I'm actually studying Psychology in University!?!?! The way I was back then, I didn't think that anyone would understand (a common complaint of guys) plus I didn't want to cheapen my misery by sharing it with anyone (which now, when I think about it, has to be the most perverse thought I've ever had).
So I took life by the neck and crotch and hoisted it in the air and did what I wanted with it (metaphorically speaking). Yanno whats worst though - its the fact that if I travelled back in time and met myself from back then, I'd probably hate me. Sad, isn't it.
Oh yeah, as an aside, my parents actually found the letter I'd wrote a while after that and lets just say that I've never had them more concerned for me since then as when they talked to me about it

Chucky

Very good point DriftingRain. I myself dont' feel life is too good, and i have had suicidal thoughts and still do. I don't reckon I'll ever do it though.


But you are correct. Irish men are not 'allowed' to show emotion or to cry as you say. Our society doesn't allow this. You have to go to the pub and get drunk every nigh of the week to qualify as Irish. I don't drink but the pressure of this society is getting to me and I have thought about giving into it and 'drowning my sorrows' with alcohol.

Also, our traditions of diet is still around - lots and lots of red meat. If we are more like our central european counterparts this place would be a lot better. For the moment i cannot see it getting better because our country is run by people who are victims themselves of 'Irishness''.

I think the best plan is to emmigrate.

Sarky

Originally posted by Paddy20
It can be great, the world really is your oyster,why not swallow it !.
P.:ninja:

Because oysters make me physically sick?

Victor

http://home.eircom.net/content/unison/national/2357201?view=Eircomnet

Irish men 'still have heads in sand' on health
From:The Irish Independent
Friday, 16th January, 2004
Eilish O'Regan Health Correspondent

THE shorter life expectancy of Irish males means that for every seven women in the country aged over 65, there are only five men.

Among those over 85, there is just one man to every three women, a report revealed yesterday.

The report, 'Men's Health in Ireland', presented a picture of high risk behaviours among men and a reluctance to seek medical help for illness until it is too late.

Outlining the statistics, the report from advocacy group Men's Health Forum highlighted how life expectancy for men is 73 years compared to 79 for women.

It found that in 2001, four times more men than women died by suicide. Depressed men are more likely to rely on themselves, to withdraw and try to talk themselves through.

Heavy drinking among Irish men has increased from 35pc to 41pc in the last four years, and of the 6,790 people convicted of drink-driving in one year, 93pc were men.

The risk of dying of malignant cancer before 75 is one in eight for women, but one in six for men. This is so although both sexes have a similar cancer risk.

The worst survival rate for common cancers is for men suffering the disorder in the lung - only 8pc of whom lived after five years.

The report also highlighted how, even though prostate cancer killed 900 Irish men in 2002, there is no screening here for the disease. The number of urologists here is among the lowest in Europe. Gender differences also emerge in road traffic accident data. Between 1993- 1997 there were 32,351 hospital admissions for such accidents - two thirds of them male. They accounted for 74pc of deaths.

Compared to the US and UK, the report notes Ireland lags behind in proactively addressing men's health.

Among the report's recommendations is a men's health advisory group for the entire island. It also called for better research and data collection. It stressed the need for increased training for health professionals and service providers, and an urgent review of resources. Launching the report, Junior Health Minister Ivor Callely said the National Health Promotion Strategy 2000-2005 identified the development of a national plan for men's health as an important initiative.

Atreides

Originally posted by xx
I was fairly close to the brink once, back about 1998. Even wrote a letter, a suicide note if you will, and was 'this' close to just doing it, killing myself. But somehow, I don't know how, I pulled myself back from the edge. When you really get that low where you actually envy the dead for being dead and not having to worry about anything, thats a bad point to be in. Seriously, when you are down in irish society, things have a habit of snowballing and everyone wants to take a piece of you.
Anyway, point is that something in me just thought that there had to be more than life than what was happening to me. I'd look at other people on the street, see couples holding hands (I was very single at the time), seeing people happy and think "why can't I be like that". So basically over the course of a week or so after I wrote that letter, I began to claw myself back. There was no dramatic "I'M BACK!!!" feeling; just a slow eb in the direction of wanting to life. After that, I worked out my own set of ideals and tried to be happy in doing what I enjoyed doing, not what society deemed to be success. I still do, to this day. I guess you could call it taking life on my own terms. Looking back now, I can't believe I ever got that low, but it does put things in perspective. Thats why when I read these studies all I can do is nod and think "that was me".
I never went to therapy, and in hindsight I don't think that it would have done me any good. Ironic now that I'm actually studying Psychology in University!?!?! The way I was back then, I didn't think that anyone would understand (a common complaint of guys) plus I didn't want to cheapen my misery by sharing it with anyone (which now, when I think about it, has to be the most perverse thought I've ever had).
So I took life by the neck and crotch and hoisted it in the air and did what I wanted with it (metaphorically speaking). Yanno whats worst though - its the fact that if I travelled back in time and met myself from back then, I'd probably hate me. Sad, isn't it.
Oh yeah, as an aside, my parents actually found the letter I'd wrote a while after that and lets just say that I've never had them more concerned for me since then as when they talked to me about it

I don't know, I find my missery somewhat comforting, like old leather. When you're low, the only better place is just a tiny bit lower. I don't know why. Personally I'm more homicidal then suicidal when I'm at my worst, don't know if thats a good thing.

Chucky

Originally posted by Skanger
I don't know, I find my missery somewhat comforting, like old leather. When you're low, the only better place is just a tiny bit lower. I don't know why. Personally I'm more homicidal then suicidal when I'm at my worst, don't know if thats a good thing.

When people are so low that they think of killing themselves (like me), don't some of these people find comfort in the fact of knowing that they can take their own lives whenever they want.......and can actually claw their way back into a good life from knowing this?

And skanger, how can you relate homicidal to being a good thing mate.

Atreides

Don't know if it is. Think its more common response to male depression then suicide personally. I mena look at all the street violence now adays. People are getting more pissed off and fed up, and some are taking that out on each other, some are taking it out on themselves and some are doing both. Question is would i rather beat the **** out of some scumbag thug, who normally i wouldn't give into, or would i rather go home and cut myself to bits. answer is neither, but if i had to i know which i'd choose.

Just to note, every single male friend I have, has been fuked up by their first love, In fact one of my friends was so messed up by his that he was on hte verge of topping himself and was really really intraverted for like 4 months. Just wondering is that what had you at your all time low xx, a woman. Another friend of mine is basically a drug addict over his first love. Lovely enough he seems to have met a nice girl now and I've never seen him look so at peace with himself. Another friend failed the leaving cert over the same woman that the first friend was on the verge of killing himself over.

Chucky

I now know what you meant about 'homicidal'. I can relate to what you are saying.

And actually, all my male friends are quite 'normal, but I have a lot of female friends who are like me, you, and people like us.

I couldn't blame my first love for what happened, although all of this crap did start when we split up. My decision though.

and it's getting all too common to see people in distressing states on a night out. I remember seeing this guy once in his mates arms crying his eyes out at about 4am. I think he was about to jump into the canal.

It's eeeeerie out there.

Emmigrate