Renault Cars

BrianD3

I am a Renault fan and have owned a succession of the things. Many people slate Renaults as being unreliable, boring, slow etc. I wonder how many of these people have ever owned or driven any of the cars. They're very underrated cars in my opinion. The British motoring press always seems to have a problem with Renault - possibly an anti-French thing seeing as the company is/was French state owned.

I could type out a big list of the various innovations that Renault have either pioneered (or been one of the very first manufacturers to adopt) over the years in both racing and road cars. Can anyone name any of these innovations. Also Renault have produced some interesting cars over the years eg the Alpine GTA and A610 supercars (which most people have never heard of) and the turbocharged models of their 1980's family car range. So any other Renault fans here. Also, if you hate Renaults or have had bad experiences with them, then here's your chance to rant

BrianD3

Seth Brundle

Originally posted by BrianD3
I could type out a big list of the various innovations that Renault have either pioneered (or been one of the very first manufacturers to adopt) over the years in both racing and road cars. Can anyone name any of these innovations.

I know one - the 'arse boot' found on the new megane - designed to protect against rear-ending impacts.

In fairness I dislike the new Megane but I admire Renaults originality.

[edit]Are the Megane II sales strong enough to keep it going or could it follow the Avantime down the plughole?[/edit]

BrianD3

I know one - the 'arse boot' found on the new megane - designed to protect against rear-ending impacts.

Funny you mention the arse boot as that's one of their less successful "inventions". I believe the arse is primarily a styling thing, with safety also a consideration. The problem with the styling is it results in fairly poor boot space and a narrow boot opening. However it wouldn't put me off the car, as I like the arsey styling

A more practical innovation woud be - in the 1960's the Renault 16 was one of the very first mainstream family cars to use an alternator. Before, family cars used dynamos. For years now all cars have used alternators but Renault were one of the first.

[edit]Are the Megane II sales strong enough to keep it going or could it follow the Avantime down the plughole?[/edit]

The Megane is probably Renault's most important model, the Avantime was much much of a niche thing. So I can't see them pulling it even if sales are bad. There's a fair few of them on the roads here now, I think people are becoming accustomed to the styling. Safety is also a big draw with the 5 star NCAP rating and Top Gear "live dummy" crash test attracting great publicity.

BrianD3

Quatre Mains

...IMO a lot of car magazines have preconceptions about certain makes of car, and their opinions and reviews very rarely deviate from these. For example, Alfa Romeo are forever popular - even before the 156 and 147 you would always see cliches like 'this is a car with real verve' or 'beautiful exhaust noise' spewed out about cars that had serious reliability issues, while reviews of cars by the likes of Renault or Toyota would usualy contain equally cliched terms such as 'bland', 'uninspring' etc etc.

Having said that tho Renault did not make many good or good looking cars from the late 70's for around a decade apart from the Renault 25, Espace and the amazing Alpine(I'd still love to get one of those). The renault 21 is credited as being the 1st step back towards credibility for Renault, followed by the 19 and then the Clio. As far as I remember they got a new CEO who turned things around for them and was then assassinated, but I might be wrong there - its a long time ago after all! they have made good cars since that era, and people for the most part regard them as a good make, and wouldn't lump them in with the likes of Fiat for example.

Cheers
Neil

BrianD3

the amazing Alpine

I'm glad someone else appreciates the Alpine. I presume you're talking about the GTA? It's a very rare car - in 15 years I have seen 2 on the roads in this country. A black one and a red one. I think the car has great styling and has an interesting layout with the engine slung out the back. It's also a practical enough car with seats for 4 adults at a pinch. Although the turbo model has "only" 200 bhp it has a light plastic body and top speed is 150 mph+. I have a What Car mag from 1990 where they tested the GTA against the Porsche 944 and Nissan 300 ZX (the 1990 model, not the eighties crappy model) The GTA won the test - the 944 was totally outclassed, the 300ZX was better but still the GTA was the testers favourite and they raved about it.

BrianD3

dloob

I think they were the first to have radio controls on the steering wheel.
That was on the safrane.

They were good in F1 last time they had a team too.
They were the first to have turbos in F1 nad the v10
The new team seems to be coming along as well.

My first car was a Renault 5 as well, a classic.

Guy:Incognito

U gotta love the renaults. I bought a new clio in 00 an drove it for 2 1/2 years and the only thing that was ever done besides petrol and brakes and tyres in the 40 -odd k miles i did was a top up of oil (yes i do realise i was stupid not to get it serviced, but hey, im lazy). anyway, the car never suffered a drop in performance or mpg. I drove the ex's mirca for a while b4 that and for comfort alone the clio was miles ahead.

BrianD3

I think they were the first to have radio controls on the steering wheel. That was on the safrane.

Nearly right. It was the Renault 25 which first had steering column mounted radio controls. That was way back in 1983. It took other manufacturers 10-15 years to cop on to this great safety innovation.

They were the first to have turbos in F1 nad the v10

Correct, they were first with turbos and first with pneumatic valve gear (instead of springs) I think they were joint first with Honda with the V10

My first car was a Renault 5 as well, a classic.

Yep, and the original Renault 5 was the first hatchback supermini

BrianD3

Borzoi

Originally posted by BrianD3
I'm glad someone else appreciates the Alpine. I presume you're talking about the GTA? It's a very rare car - in 15 years I have seen 2 on the roads in this country. A black one and a red one.

If you've seen one around the Tullamore area, it beongs to the father of a friend of mine. However he rarely drives it these days.:(

unkel

Originally posted by BrianD3
and the original Renault 5 was the first hatchback supermini

Great car in it's day - once spend a 3 week holiday in France driving a 10 year old one

Originally posted by BrianD3
It was the Renault 25 which first had steering column mounted radio controls.

I remember that the director of the Belgian plant where the 25 was produced was caught saying that the 25 was a complete piece of sh*te. This was leaked to the press.....Renault closed the factory some months later iirc

BrianD3

Here's some more Renault facts/innovations:

First small hatchback (renault 4, 1950's)

First large hatchback (renault 16, 1960's)

First real MPV (Espace, 1980's)

First Mini MPV (Scenic, 1990's)

First manufacturer to offer remote control central locking in a family car.

Some older front wheel drive Renaults had engines mounted longitually with gearbox in the front. Quite an interesting setup. Gives good weight distribution and ground clearance.

First with seat belt load limiters (original Megane)

First to score 5 stars in NCAP crash tests (Laguna)

First composite plastic propshaft on a road car (espace 4wd) Ok that's pretty anoraky Still, it's an innovation all the same.

Tyre Pressure Monitors (Laguna)

The Renault 5 GT Turbo, Clio 16v and Clio Williams were all fantastic hot hatches. Way ahead of their rivals from Ford, VW etc.

The eighties 21 Turbo was a BMW 325i beater.

Just going back to the Renault 16, what a fantastic car that was. It was an extremely advanced vehicle for the 1960's, way ahead of it's time. There's some info about it here: http://www.renault16.com/

BrianD3

unkel

Originally posted by BrianD3
First small hatchback (renault 4, 1950's)

That was not in the 50's but in the 60's. It is the first car I have an active memory of. My dad changed his Austin Healy (that I was a frequent passenger in but can't remember) in 1970 for a brand spanking new R4 as my baby sister was about to be born. My grandmother said at the time it was always good to have the ambition to move to a bigger car on each upgrade :eek:

Originally posted by BrianD3
First large hatchback (renault 16, 1960's)

Indeed introduced in 1965 (and European car of the year 1965) it remained to be an icon throughout the later 60's and all through the 70's. A remarkably innovative car indeed. I remember very well the luxury of the 16TX with electric windows - something almost unheard of in the 70's

Renault can also take the full credit for creating the MPV segment in Europe with the Espace (first) and then the Megane Scenic. Brilliant move which has earned them a fortune

I have pointed out my very positive memories about the R5 (1974) before and the management story about the R25 as well

Originally posted by BrianD3
The eighties 21 Turbo was a BMW 325i beater.

Nah - wouldn't go that far. Have you any tests, reviews, etc to back that up?

Remember very well driving the R11 TXE (all electric) in the early 90's to the former republic of Yugoslavia from the Netherlands on an almost 3k mile trip in total. Very good car but the electrics were dodgy

BrianD3

The eighties 21 Turbo was a BMW 325i beater.

unkel, I've read various 21 Turbo reviews over the years all of which praised the car. Here's one from Motor magazine which compares the 21 Turbo favourably with the Merc 190 Cosworth, E30 325i and even the Sierra Cosworth
http://www.renault21turbo.btinternet.co.uk/motorroad_test.htm

BrianD3

Doctor J

There was a brand new Renault Megane estate stranded at a junction in Sandyford Industrial Estate last week, about 150m from the Renault showrooms here. Hazards on (weakly and erratically it must be said) and the bemused sales goon standing sheepishly beside it waiting for a tow truck. When I went to them to test drive a Clio a few months back they didn't "have one that works" at hand. So I went elsewhere.

JohnBoy

I've always been a big fan of renaults.

my dad had a lot of them back in the 80s, then he went to misubishi for the 90s but now he's back driving a new laguna, and regrets it so much it's not funny.

The 1.6 is one of the most gutless cars I've travelled in (haven't had the pleasure of driving it on the open road yet) the only way to get any sort of go out of it is to rev the living daylights out of it.

the rearward visibility is really poor too, but my dad says you get used to that (I'm generally only using it to move trailers around the yard, which is a nasty nasty job.

the headlights have a nasty habit of dimming when you use the front electric windows.... worrying.

having said all that I still like the car, it looks great and has the most amazing brakes I've ever experienced.

I'd love an older laguna estate, but I'm put off by things I've heard that a lot of servicing has to be done by the dealer as a lot of specialist tools are needed. also I have doubts over the longevity of their diesels.

but on a whole I like renaults.

BrianD3

The 1.6 is one of the most gutless cars I've travelled in

Funny, I have a Laguna 1.6 and everyone who travels in it comments how it feels like a bigger engine. Maybe it's my heavy right foot You must remember that very few mid size cars come with a 1.6 these days. Most start at 1.8 or 2 litres. I think only Toyota, Nissan and Renault offer a 1.6 in this class of car. None of these are fast cars but they're not bad for a smallish capacity engine in a heavy body (all are approx 1300 kg kerb weight) You save on insuarance and tax compared to the larger engines plus I get 40-44 MPG average out of the Laguna which I reckon is very good for a petrol car this size.

BrianD3

Pinkchick03

I've a Renault Clio (98) which is the old shape and i am dying to get the new model, so anyone willing to sell one to me ....???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!;)

[DF]Lenny

I have always had deep misgivings about the build quality of renaults.I currently drive a Laguna 2 and its troubles had made my previous car(A alfa 156) seem positively 'toyota' like.
Renaults have always been innovaters in car design but like most things the Japs then copy and perfect the idea.As for the Alpine supercar if I remember it was built from aluminium or plastics at the time,It was never a big seller..lets face it supercars only work for certain manufacturers(the Honda nsx being a modern example of failure) and it looks dire on the road.The Family saloons of the mid eighties with their turbo engines(Huge lag)compared quite poorly with normally aspirated Italian cars of the time had very poor residuals and rusted badly.This is the 1st and last renault I shall drive..End of Rant.

BrianD3

The Family saloons of the mid eighties with their turbo engines(Huge lag)compared quite poorly with normally aspirated Italian cars of the time had very poor residuals and rusted badly.This is the 1st and last renault I shall drive..End of Rant.

You're joking right? 80's Italian cars (with a few exceptions) were the absolute pits. Unreliable and rusty with terrible residuals and not even nice looking. Take your pick from the Fiat Argenta, Croma, Regata, Strada/Ritmo, Lancia Prisma, Alfa 90, Alfa Six

Even some cars from prestige manufacturers are regarded as junk by most car enthusiasts. I'd have a Renault Alpine over an 80's Ferrari Mondial or Maserati Biturbo any day.

However there is one 80's Italian car which stands head and shoulders above all others in terms of being crap and it's from Alfa Romeo. Here it is:

If this car looks suspiciously like a Datsun Cherry that's because it IS a Datsun Cherry, well sort of. It's the Alfa Romeo Arna and resulted from a joint venture between Alfa and Datsun. Basically a combination of a hideous rust prone Jap body and unreliable Italian mechanicals. It is regarded by many as possibly the worst car ever produced by any car maunfacturer ever! It makes the Renault 9 seem good!

BrianD3

unkel

Originally posted by BrianD3
http://www.renault21turbo.btinternet.co.uk/motorroad_test.htm

The torgue and resulting mid-range acceleration is pretty impressive alright, but I doubt if this car took many customers away from BMW, especially with the 325i being cheaper than the 21 turbo

Originally posted by BrianD3
Alfa Romeo Arna

Haha, had completely forgotton about that one. Don't think I've ever seen one. Sure we might start a poll about worst car ever. My vote goes to the Austin / Rover Metro