Motorcycle FAQ

a_ominous

Well since I suggested it, I'll start the ball rolling.

Licence
You need a licence to ride a bike. Here for some details.


Insurance
In Ireland, there are only 2 motorbike insurers, Hibernian and Carole Nash. If you're under 25, you can try Carole Nash but they generally only insure over 25s on bikes obver 250cc. You can get online quotes from Hibernian but only phone quotes from CN.

There are some brokers who deal with motorbike insurance. AON is the largest. They deal with Hibernian and offer discounts on the Hibernian price. Some of the bike shops can also sort your insurnace out. They have a deal with AON. Some examples of these bike shops:
Cotters
Bikeworld

There are 3 types of insurance:
Third Party (TP) - you pay for damages to you and your bike
Third Party, Fire and Theft. As above but also covers for fire and theft, strangely.
Fully Comprehensive. As above but also includes cover for damage to you and your bike.

Bikes are assigned a grouping by insurers. This is based on the power to weight ratio of the bike. So for example a 50cc 10 BHP scooter is group 1 and a 1300cc 150BHP sports bike would be group 12, and more expensive to insure. The differences between groups is small for riders over 40. A table of the prices is not available online at the moment.


Lessons
There are various places to learn to ride a bike. Irish School of Motoring (ISM) will provide bikes. As will the Star Rider courses run by Fingal and I believe South Dublin Co Council. These are not year round courses though. And there is a long waiting list for school bikes. Most independent trainers (Irish Rider Training Association IRTA) do not have bikes due to prohibitive insurance costs. This may change with driver instructor certification due in 2004.


Some URLs:
So you want to drive
Cotters
Bikeworld
Easy rider training good information
on bikes and training.
Irish rider training
Motorcycle news there reviews of bikes and gear.

a_ominous

Some information on 33BHP power restriction on A licence at MAG Ireland

There is some differing opinion on the power restriction. Others in this parish argue that the restriction is 33BHP and power/weight <=0.16 kW/kg. But many people take the restriction to be "33BHP OR power/weight <=0.16 kW/kg" which would then allow people to ride big bikes that are restricted.

To take an extreme example, someone could get a 1800cc GoldWing restricted to a power/weight ratio <= 0.16 but still be putting out somewhere about 60-70BHP.

Which doesn't seem right.

And along this line, an RS250 or NSR250 puts out less than 33BHP but the power ot weight ratio > 0.16.

This isn't MAG's interpretation, but it does make some sense. Unfortunately

a_ominous

this restriction topic has been annoying me as has not getting a definitive answer about it. But I believe I have found a definitive answer.

On the Dept of Transport website there is a page which I found that says
"25kW (33BHP) or power to weight <= 0.16"

It's in this PDF document (page 4) 312kB

Found it by searching main government site for "25kW"

Hope that settles it. Anyhoo, it'll do for me if I can find a nice bigger bike over the next few months...

Typedef

Sorry a_ominous you are quite wrong about Carole Nash not insuring the under 25s.

In fact, Carole Nash are the only company that will provide Third Party only insurance for young drivers like me 19-25 age group.

I'm wondering where you get your information.

Hibernian have point blank refused to quote me on anything other then third party fire and theft.

*bump*.

Carole Nash are the only company in Ireland who would quote me after I had an accident and payout.... (in fact it was Carole Nash I was insured with at the time).

Also doing a quick scan through your posts shows that you consistently 'plug' for Hibernian.

Do you work for them by any chance?

a_ominous

Just to clarify things, I do not work for Hibernian, Carole Nash or any insurance company. I did say that Carole Nash generally only insure over 25 year olds coz that's what they told me when I've contacted them. They also told me that they _generally_ insure bikes > 250cc but they did quote me for a 125cc Marauder. Their TP quote was dearer than FC with Hibernian.

I recommend that _everyone_ shop around for insurance _every_ time. Rates do change from year to year. I will be calling CN at my next renewal to make sure I get the best deal. But with motorbikes, there are only the 2 insurance companies.

I have given the Hibernian URL in my posts to help people. If they're reading boards.ie they're online and could get the quote 24x7. That's all.

Carole Nash also provide a breakdown service as part of their package. Hibernian don't. If you break down and have a Hib policy, it's your problem. But be aware that CN late night or weekend breakdowns may mean you have to fork out the cash to breakdown van driver as they don't have 24 hour access to the CN database. MAG are aware of this and were to raise it with CN last autumn.

In the interest of fairness and helpfulness,
Carole Nash
CX House
Corn Exchange
Dublin 2
ph 1800 29 85 50.
[PS that's in the telephone book

a_ominous

Another plus for CN, is Hibernian do not provide cover on bikes valued over 12500 Euro. I had hoped to upgrade next year and wanted to get an idea of insurance costs. May have to do that in-store as many shops provide cover via AON who deal with Hibernian.

One thing to consider with Carole Nash is that to get fully comp (FC) insurance the bike is supposed to be garaged every night. One CN agent told me a garden shed was fine, another said it had to be a permanent brick garage. YMMV.

seamus

Originally posted by a_ominous
One thing to consider with Carole Nash is that to get fully comp (FC) insurance the bike is supposed to be garaged every night. One CN agent told me a garden shed was fine, another said it had to be a permanent brick garage. YMMV.

If you have an anchor fitted to the ground in your back garden, and put a small wooden shed around it (why wouldn't you - keep it warm/dry), I'm sure it would stand up as being adequately secure.

a_ominous

Originally posted by seamus
If you have an anchor fitted to the ground in your back garden, and put a small wooden shed around it (why wouldn't you - keep it warm/dry), I'm sure it would stand up as being adequately secure.

It didn't in my case. But another useful point for the FAQ.

A ground anchor is basically a hoop or other fixed piece of metal for locking your bike to. I paid about 60 yoyos for mine about 18 months ago in Bikeworld. They had a few different types ranging in price from 40 quid to 120 IIRC. Some need to be set in concrete, mine is bolted to a wall.

Regarding locks and chains

Some background
I'm a recent biker (2 years now). I found there was a lot of conflicting information out there when I started looking at bikes. In my experience bike shops are generally helpful. Haven't had anyone laugh at me asking silly questions. But they are selling you stuff so all their information might not be accurate. Caveat emptor. If you get out there and visit shops you can get a good idea of what bikes suit you.
I've also passed RoSPA Advanced Rider training. I'm working towards intructor training.

a_ominous

There is a lot of variety out there for clothing and accessories. A helmet in the only compulsory bit of kit. Prices vary a lot starting at around 50 yoyos to 500 yoyos. Cheaper lids tend to be open face and IME mostly used by scooterists and old Harley riders Not only will they not protect your face much in a fall, but I dislike the stinging of hard rain or hailstones on my face. Especially at speed.
A helmet must have a chin strap that is closed. If not, you are technically riding without a helmet in the eyes of the law (Check last years accident stats). You will also need goggles.
A full face lid gives more protection. You should try to get a helmet that is CE approved. I was advised to go for a single shell lid, ie not one glued together to form a helmet.
I've heard a quote regarding lids: if you have a cheap head, buy a cheap lid. While I don't completely agree with this, it does have some merit. If you're going for a sports bike, I would recommend a full faced lid. Just in case, you understand. An open lid for E50 is grand on a run-around 50cc scooter and will probalby fit in the under-seat storage.

There are 2 purposes of the clothing: protection and comfort (keeping warm and dry). An ordinary fleece jacket might keep you warm walking about, but as a biker (includes scooterist, motorcyclist) it will provide no protection in the event of a fall. And wind chill will also be a factor.
Leather offers the greatest abrasion resistent protection in a fall. If you fall and slide and are wearing jeans, your legs will be cut to pieces. You'll probably survive, but be in a lot of pain. Leather lasts something like 20 times longer. This is why racers wear leathers.
Most bike gear will also have some 'armour' or padding in it. This is typically on extremities like elbows, shoulders, knees, hips and also some for the back. If you have a fall on a bike, rolling along the ground is where bones get broken. A slide is better (in leather) because the clothing is worn down.

Alternatives to leather:
Since leather is not water-proof (without treatment, and needs continuous treatment) other materials are used. A lot of bikers I've seen about Dublin wear synthetic jackets. Some have Goretex to let you breathe (important during the summer!) Jackets should have a winter lining too so you can be nice and warm.

Everyone will also need a pair of gloves to protect the hands in the event of a fall and also to keep hands warm and dry. If you don't stay dry, you won't stay warm. Water will cool you off 27 times faster than air (according to a Discovery program I saw in 2003).

In Ireland, you'll also need water proofs. IMHO a person riding a scooter does not need the same level of protection as a person with a big bike, but that is very much your own decision. There are waterproofs out there with padding and cost 100-200 yoyos.

Boots
These are a good investment for anyone on a bike. Gear changing will wear out the top of your left shoe. Bike boots are reinforced here. There should also be some additional protection around the ankle, toe and shin. Broken ankles are quite common injuries for bikers.

My initial outlay for gear was
Helmet 130
Jacket 130
Boots 180
Trousers 120
Lock 70
Disc-lock 30

I've since replaced my first jacket as the padding kept sliding around. I've also had to replace my disc lock as I broke the first one after riding off with it on. Fortunately the brake disc was unharmed.

a_ominous

There are various motorcycling books out there covering things like 'Roadcraft', Advanced Riding. They also cover clothing. See if your local library has them or can order them for you. Worth a read initially and also from time to time.

Krusty_Clown

A_ominous: I have to agree with you on your comments about insurance companies.
Not only should you ring around, but you should also ring the same company several times, in the hope of reaching a different operator.

I've found that conditions can change rapidly just even over periods of a couple of hours. For instance, rang Hibernian for a quote on my first bike (5 years ago), for which the quote was 780 Irish punts fully-comp. Rang them later that day, (different operator) to secure the insurance, and the quote was down to 680 Irish punts. I've seen this behaviour echo'ed on multiple occasions from various posters on Motorcycle Ireland..

Oh, and Carole Nash were specifically looking for a brick and Mortar shed, when I tried to get Comprehensive insurance from them.. Nothing else would do... (and €600 more than HiB!).

Oh and I see your head is only worth €130! I'd be inclined to spend a little more to get something that might be safer..

Some additional equipment you should/might buy:

1) A Bike cover - if your bike's not kept in a shed - prolong that body-work!
2) An alarm - if covered by HiB and your bike's over a certain value (I think it's around €10.5K) you'll need an approved alarm fitted. Mine cost me ~ €280
3) Chain Oil - and some parrafin to clean the chain
4) Wax - for Polishing
5) WD40 - for all sorts of uses
6) Tyre weld/foam (Bikes don't have spares!) - although this may render your tyre un-repairable
7) A Toolkit - If you don't have one already - Including a set of spanners/allen keys
8) A rear paddock stand - for oiling/cleaning that chain
9) Some kind of luggage - I use a rear Oxford Tail Bag - reduces straing from carrying a backpack (and it's also less painful if you fall)
10) Ear-Plugs - Wind noise will deafen you eventually, even at speeds as low as 40mph
11) Bungie cords
12) A Cargo net
13) I'll keep adding as I think of stuff....

bbbbb

Roadcraft is good, another book I found useful was "proficient motorcycling"
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/026-0219294-7779657

which I picked up while browsing in borders on a trip to the states. Beware though, it's American, they drive on the other side of the road so some of it requires translation!

Also, the institute of advanced motoring hand book which I got from Hibernian Ignition.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1870979656/ref=pd_rhf_f_1/026-0219294-7779657

a_ominous

Try http://www.magireland.org/MAGLINK/APRIL2002.htm#_Toc6461277MAG Ireland

I also believe there is a 10% reduction for bike between 3months and 1 year. Less than 3 months, there is no VRT reduction.

a_ominous

Found some (very little) info on
Revenue site
It does say there is a "deduction for age" without giving the percentage. Check MAG link above.

D'oh!

hey just my 2cents

As far as i've heard C&N will only insure you if you are over 21 and have a min of 2 years NCB

And as far as having your bike restricted there is now bloody piont, for them to verify the hp they have to run a dyno from the crank and there isnt a dyno for doing this in the country! And besides the insurance company wont ask you anything about it, they never have anyway. So if you can afford the rip off rates ride what ever you can!!

batman_oh

santry motorcyles and the bike tyre company both have dyno rollin roads
doubt they would try to verify by that but if u get unlucky u wuld have to show restriction certs, and if u crash if theres no restrictors, u cud be very screwed

seamus

Originally posted by D'oh!
As far as i've heard C&N will only insure you if you are over 21 and have a min of 2 years NCB

It Would appear so. I rang them 2 years ago at 20, and they told me they wouldn't insure me under 23. Rang them today, First thing she asked - What age? "22", immediately afterwards - Have you any NCB? "2 years".

So got me a quote - €700 less than Hibernian.

\o/

Choices...choices

OLDYELLAR

hey i was just wondering im driving a scooter and my insurance is up in a few weeks its fully comprehensive 700 odd quid with hibernian , do i have to pay the full whack at once or could i pay 6 months of it now and the rest in 6 months time ?

Krusty_Clown

I just received my Hibernian renewal, and there were no installment payment options, it was all a lump sum.. I think Carole Nash allow payments by installment, but this may be no use to you..

Give Hibernian a call..

OLDYELLAR

im with a broker and i rang em this morning they said you can only pay the lump sum no installment option available . i have a 3 year no claim bonus and turning 21 in august so i`ll give carole nash a ring in the afternoon and see what the story there is .

seamus

Originally posted by OLDYELLAR
im with a broker and i rang em this morning they said you can only pay the lump sum no installment option available . i have a 3 year no claim bonus and turning 21 in august so i`ll give carole nash a ring in the afternoon and see what the story there is .

Something else I had also considered was to forgoe the broker and apply for a quote online with Hibernian (they no longer offer motorcycle quotes over the phone :mad:). Afaik, you should be able to pay in instalments.

OLDYELLAR

i did that seamus 200 dearer when i got quoted online for both third party and fully comprehensive and same story last year when i rang em up they were a hell of a lot dearer than my broker.do you have any idea if carole nash will insure scooters?

seamus

Originally posted by OLDYELLAR
i did that seamus 200 dearer when i got quoted online for both third party and fully comprehensive and same story last year when i rang em up they were a hell of a lot dearer than my broker.do you have any idea if carole nash will insure scooters?

No idea. Give em a buzz. Freephone too.

OLDYELLAR

i rang em and she said yeah grand if your 21 with at least two years ncb so i gave her all my details and she went to give me a quote and next thing she goes oh laura im so sorry the system will only give me quotes for 23 years or more sorry and hangs up , I was like ggrr so annoying

AidoX

While Im riding a 650 my (31yr, 3 NCB) Im paying less than 600 yoyos thats with a second bike on my policy. HIB didnt even come close even though I have my car and house cover with them.

My mate recently bought a Suzi GS 450 1983, 32, 1st provo and no NCB. He rang Carole Nashe they quoted him little under 500 yoyos and said when he gets his full license that will drop to 310 yoyo... I doubt he'll ever get to pay that he wants bigger yesterday, he's just using the GS to build experience and a NCB right way to go

Hopefully some of these "new" companies coming in <whenever> will also take on bikers.

I use mine for summer use only to and fro the office and have only put about 3K on the clock since I got it, theres now 7K onthe clock lol

BArra

aye, carole nash, 21 yrs old minimum..... sigh

so that means hibernian are the ONLY other company that will insure bikers under 21?

hi all, im currently driving a yamaha dragstar 650, and was insured with hibernian which cost me €1100 when i first got the bike. i got the renewal form off them in august and they were looking for €1600 ! i have a clean licence and wanted to know why the sudden increase and got no reply, just told to pay up! i called carole nash and they quoted me for €1300 with free breakdown cover. Hibernian are rip off merchants

by the way im 24 provisional licence and 4 years no claims!im never going near hibernian again

spockety

Deleted User wrote:

by the way im 24 provisional licence and 4 years no claims!im never going near hibernian again

Get your full license and you'll probably find Hibernian undercutting that Carole Nash quote there.

35% off.

a_ominous

There are several different engine configurations or types used in bikes.

A general explanation at Motorbiketraining.net

Some comments pulled from a recent thread:

Seamus wrote:

V-twin is a reference to the way a twin-cylindered bike has its cylinders arranged. Single cylindered bikes have obviously one cylinder, sitting straight up, or slightly leaning forward.

interceptor wrote:

different configurations do different things and they all have good and bad points. Single cylinder, in-line twin, opposed twin (BMW), v-twin, in-line triple (Kawasaki), v-triple (Honda), v-four, inline four, and inline six (Honda) are the ones I can think of straight off.

krusty_clown wrote:

V-Twins have a reputation for being more Torque'y, better handling in corners, and having better exhaust sounds.. But it is just that, a reputation...

Modern inlines can have far more Torque and handle better in the corners.
But they'll never sound as sweet*..

furp wrote:

On Harleys the V is set at about 60 degrees but its the way the timing is set up that gives them that unique sound they fire both cylinders simultaneous but only one cylinder has the piston in the right position and fuel in it so you get a kind of lagged timing on them, sorry how stuff works has a better explanation of it.

But that sound is sweet it goes po-tat-oe po-tat-oe po-tat-oe po-tat-oe, not a very efficient engine and a very old design from the 50's afaik, but my dad has a 95 Fatboy with screamin' eagle exhaust and it is a monster to ride.

delanest

Does this seem totally mental to anyone.

I have 5 years no claims bonus and have just got my full A1 licence. I applied for a provisional A licence and I must now do a theory test !

Oryx

D'oh! wrote:

And as far as having your bike restricted there is now bloody piont, for them to verify the hp they have to run a dyno from the crank and there isnt a dyno for doing this in the country! And besides the insurance company wont ask you anything about it, they never have anyway. So if you can afford the rip off rates ride what ever you can!!

True the insurers wont ask but who wants to take the risk of losing cover? The law here is a bit vague, it has never been established what the weight means, dry, kerb, or with rider, but the bhp is understood to be at the rear wheel, this can be checked on any number of dynos in shops around the country. (When the insurers are grouping bikes they use manufacturers stats)

Also about paying insurance in installments Aon Bikecare do a scheme where you pay 30% up front and 5 monthly installments by direct debit. Ask your local friendly bike dealer.

IanluvsKathleen

is vrt calculated on bikes the same way as on cars if i was to bring one in from england????

Oryx

VRT on bikes is calculated on the cc of the bike. It is €2 per cc up to 350cc and €1 per cc after that. There is a discount schedule of between 10% and 100% according to the year of the bike.

If you have been domicile in the UK it can be registered vrt free if youve owned the bike in the uk check with the vro.

a_ominous

Revenue VRT calculator

Ninja_Duck

With regard to what a_ominous mentioned at the start of this thread about most "independent" trainers not having their own school bikes due to insurance costs....

I know of one school that does, that's the Motocycle Safety Association. http://www.msa-ireland.com They are based in Dublin and I found them to be excellent. I didn't have my own bike at the time.

a_ominous wrote:

Lessons
There are various places to learn to ride a bike. Irish School of Motoring (ISM) will provide bikes. As will the Star Rider courses run by Fingal and I believe South Dublin Co Council. These are not year round courses though. And there is a long waiting list for school bikes. Most independent trainers (Irish Rider Training Association IRTA) do not have bikes due to prohibitive insurance costs. This may change with driver instructor certification due in 2004.

jackal

About the restriction. I was seriously worried about this so I bought a 250cc hornet... Well it turns out its 40 bhp, so Im over the limit anyway! Unless you want to drive an absolute donkey of a bike, you are going to run into this problem.

Anyway, I was curious, so I asked a bunch of very experienced bikers had they heard of anyone getting into trouble or having a claim rejected? Answer... no. If you think about it its pretty hard to prove... "Go ahead, put the mangled heap formerly known as my bike on the dyno...*clunk*... Whats that? 0 hp? Well there you go, Its *very* restricted."

Kazujo

The restrictor is a physical component of the engine that they can actually look for so unless you manage to completely obliterate the engine they can check.

It might not happen everytime someone claims but they can. I wouldn't worry about it on the 250 Hornet as it's only a little over the 33 (is it actually restricted?) but my Bandit is 33Bhp restricted and 85 unrestricted so there is a big differrence.

johnos

I have an ongoing problem with cables snapping, probably because my bike isn't garaged and because I'm too lazy to oil them as often as I should.

Does anyone -- motorcycle or bicycle trade -- in the Dublin area repair inner cables? Usually just a matter of fitting a new nipple. I have to order these online from England and it's becoming a needlessly expensive business!


PS: why not have a dedicated motorcycle thread?

Ninja_Duck

Hi,

With regard to what a_ominous mentioned at the start of this thread about most "independent" trainers not having their own school bikes due to insurance costs....

I know of one school in Ireland that does rider training and has its own school bikes and that's the Motocycle Safety Association. They are based in Dublin and I found them to be excellent. I didn't have my own bike at the time.

bbbaldy

Johnos,
I had same cable Problem on my bike, After going through about 5 cables (one drive from kinnegad to galway with none) it was reccomended to me to slacken the cable a bit, using the adjuster on the cutch handle, it feels a bit sloppy but I have the same cable for 2 years now. 10000m.

johnos

bbbaldy wrote:

Johnos,
I had same cable Problem on my bike, After going through about 5 cables (one drive from kinnegad to galway with none) it was reccomended to me to slacken the cable a bit, using the adjuster on the cutch handle, it feels a bit sloppy but I have the same cable for 2 years now. 10000m.

Thanks B -- I think this is just a design problem. The throttle cable is much thinner than standard. I've bought a beefier one, but it wouldn't run smoothly around the throttle grip mechanism. I've adapted to this by always having a spare in the sidepanel.
But I now have a fine collection of cable outers with knackered inner cables: i just wish I could get them mended rather than having to get the whole thing each time.

Phryxus

I believe that the easy rider training course will loan you a cb250 for the course and ( I'm about 99% sure on this ) He'll rent you the bike to do your full A test if you do the test prep course. Handy enough if you only have a 125.

Phryxus

So is there anything unexpected in the test, from what I know it's just a few turns an upright small circle, driving really slowly but I only got a vague description from someone I hardly knew.

Is it easy to fail/hard to pass, is there anywhere I can get a full rundown of the whole thing?

spunkymunky

I did the test there last year and to be honest it was a piece of p*ss. Did it in Finglas and it was drive through this estate (which was a square) one way, so all right turns, then the other way, so all left turns.
The semi hill start, drive slow (which is a brisk walking pace) and the turn about, which i actually put my foot down on.
It was my second time doing the test (first time on a moped so failed from the start). First time i didnt use my mirrors a lot or have good observation turning left. so second time around i made everything really obvious! Make sure he could see me looking in the mirrors (ie move your head a lot) also looked everywhere, especially over my shoulder, when taking off. Idicate around parked cars and overtaking cyclists and stick to the speed limit (that was hard for me). If you know the area drive around it a bit just before and see what hazards are about. Know your enemy :mad: !!!
check out
http://www.drivingtest.ie/drivingtest/HTMLContent/frameset.html
Some stuff there
Good luck

Phryxus

Well you may have found it a piece of piss but in that case there must be a lot of muppets taking the tests seeing as there's an average test pass rate is 54.5%. I'll just do a course and hope for the best. Can't wait till those insurance rates go down so I can move on to something bigger.

spunkymunky

Insurance rates going down? when is this happening? My insurance is dropping 600 quid this year but have aged a year so dont know how much of a difference that made. Now im only on a 125 but they (carole nash) quoted me (23) 1200 TP on a bandit 400 restricted but still that a powerful bike and a good price.

Phryxus

Don't have a clue what's going on there, I'm on a 125 dragstar at the moment and I got a quote on a ducati 400 monster for 1200 at 21 with a full licence and 2 years cf, that's aon, try a quote on www.hiberniandirect.ie and see if it's any different for you, have you done a rider training course? what group is the bandit in? the monster is a group 5

spunkymunky

Might have something to do with the fact i only have a full A1 licence. My bike wasnt big enough for the A licence. I tried hibernian online quote and they would quote on anything of a decent size. 21 on a monster? Very nice!!! Think the bandit is about the same class. Whats the craic with the training course? Does it affect your quote much?

Phryxus

Well when I was talking to the guys at ducati dublin they said that a completed rider training course would give me 30% off, pretty good in my opinion, this is a thing on the hibernian site i found interesting.


http://hibernian.netsource.ie/broker_secure/docs/Abridged%20Govt%20Submission.doc

Any thoughts?

spunkymunky

30% . For a one day course? I think its pretty good. Buts how hard is it to pass. It was saying that even people with 10 years experience where struggling. Some other shocking figures there. The pillion claims even though they are not suppose to be on the bike :eek: !? I was doing that for years. Do you have to be with Hibernian to take the course. I would gladly take it (maybe wait till summer though)