Home Television Distrubution

DTV

I AM A BEGINNER AND HAD ASKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE BUT NEVER TOTALLY SORTED IT OUT; HEAR GOES I WANT TO DISTRIBUTE:

1. RTE 1/ NET 2 (VHF) (MOUNT LEINSTER OR KIPPURE?)
2. FM (VHF)
3. TV3/ TG4 (UHF) (MOUNT LEINSTER OR KIPPURE?)
4. SKY DIGIBOX (RF OUT UHF)
5. SKY+ DIGIBOX (RF OUT UHF)
6. PC DISPLAY (MODULATOR UHF)

TO 8 POINTS

#I WANT TO HAVE TERRESTIAL INDEPENDENT FROM THE BASE TELEVISION THUS I DO NOT WANT TO DO A LOOP THROUGH

I INTEND TO USE A 2-WAY COMBINER (F-TYPE) TO COMBINE VHF SIGNAL (RTE1/ NET 2 AND FM) AND USE A 4-WAY COMBINER (F-TYPE) TO COMBINE UHF SIGNAL (TV3/ TG4, SKY DIGIBOX ETC). I WILL CONNECT THESE TO AN 8-WAY DISTRIBUTION AMP (F-TYPE) (ANTIFERENCE) TO UHF AND VHF INPUTS. WILL THIS WORK?

I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS:

1. WITH SKY+ DIGIBOX CAN I RELAY TWO SEPARATE SIGNALS INSTEAD OF ONE TO THE 8 POINTS? (SO I CAN WATCH TWO CHANNELS, THUS I WOULD HAVE THREE RELAYS FROM SKY DIGIBOX X1 AND SKY+ DIGIBOX X2)

2. DO I NEED MASTHEAD AMPLIFIERS AT THE TOP OF THE UHF AND VHF AERIALS?

3. BASICALLY I AM USING F-TYPE SPLITTERS AS COMBINE CAN I DO THIS?, I HAVE HEARD OF TAPS ARE THESE BETTER FOR COMBINING SIGNALS AND WHERE CAN I BUY THEM.

4. CAN I BUY WALL PLATE DIXPLEXERS WHICH WILL SPLIT THE TV AND FM SIGNALS AND ARE THESE THE MOST EFFECTIVE OR SHOULD I SPLIT THE SIGNAL USING A 2-WAY SPLITTER?

5. I WANT DISTRIBUTE MY PC DISPLAY ACROSS THE DISTRIBUTION NETWORK. USING A VIDEO SENDER I INTEND TO SEND THE SIGNAL INTO THE ATTIC AND CONVERT IT INTO A RF SIGNAL USING A MODULATOR CONNECTING IT TO THE 4-WAY COMBINER (UHF SIGNAL) WILL THIS WORK?

6. WHERE IS THE BEST PLACE TO BUY EQUIPMENT AT GOOD PRICES?

shabbyroad

Hi DTV and welcome to the boards
now.... PLEASE STOP SHOUTING....

I have a , much less complex, setup like the one you describe so I'll try to answer your questions. You should also do a search on Watty's posts here because he's got a webpage on this somewhere (and he's a damn sight more informed than I am)

1. WITH SKY+ DIGIBOX CAN I RELAY TWO SEPARATE SIGNALS INSTEAD OF ONE TO THE 8 POINTS? (SO I CAN WATCH TWO CHANNELS, THUS I WOULD HAVE THREE RELAYS FROM SKY DIGIBOX X1 AND SKY+ DIGIBOX X2)
Yes as far as I know. Don't have Sky+ but any specs I've read indicate separate RF outputs from each digital tuner.

4. CAN I BUY WALL PLATE DIXPLEXERS WHICH WILL SPLIT THE TV AND FM SIGNALS AND ARE THESE THE MOST EFFECTIVE OR SHOULD I SPLIT THE SIGNAL USING A 2-WAY SPLITTER?
You can buy 3-way plate dixplexers that will separate TV, FM & Satellite. I've got them in my house and they work just fine. I bought them from Electroplus in Beaumont, Dublin 9 (but that was only because at the time they were one of the few Sky Digital installers). You will probably find them cheaper online. There are some good UK based sites for hardware like this.

5. I WANT DISTRIBUTE MY PC DISPLAY ACROSS THE DISTRIBUTION NETWORK. USING A VIDEO SENDER I INTEND TO SEND THE SIGNAL INTO THE ATTIC AND CONVERT IT INTO A RF SIGNAL USING A MODULATOR CONNECTING IT TO THE 4-WAY COMBINER (UHF SIGNAL) WILL THIS WORK?
In theory but afaik most of the video senders with RF output are on a fixed channel. I can't imagine that the signal quality will be all that great though.

6. WHERE IS THE BEST PLACE TO BUY EQUIPMENT AT GOOD PRICES?
Can't help you there but I did come across this site 'madnat' from a banner ad on avforums.com they have some clever audio & video distribution systems that run over cat-5 cabling.

DTV

Cheers Thanks, Can anyone answer the other questions, please

2. DO I NEED MASTHEAD AMPLIFIERS AT THE TOP OF THE UHF AND VHF AERIALS?

3. BASICALLY I AM USING F-TYPE SPLITTERS AS COMBINE CAN I DO THIS?, I HAVE HEARD OF TAPS ARE THESE BETTER FOR COMBINING SIGNALS AND WHERE CAN I BUY THEM.

5. I WANT DISTRIBUTE MY PC DISPLAY ACROSS THE DISTRIBUTION NETWORK. USING A VIDEO SENDER I INTEND TO SEND THE SIGNAL INTO THE ATTIC AND CONVERT IT INTO A RF SIGNAL USING A MODULATOR CONNECTING IT TO THE 4-WAY COMBINER (UHF SIGNAL) WILL THIS WORK?

6. WHERE IS THE BEST PLACE TO BUY EQUIPMENT AT GOOD PRICE (Websites etc)

Thanks.

ShaneOC

Originally posted by shabbyroad
1. WITH SKY+ DIGIBOX CAN I RELAY TWO SEPARATE SIGNALS INSTEAD OF ONE TO THE 8 POINTS? (SO I CAN WATCH TWO CHANNELS, THUS I WOULD HAVE THREE RELAYS FROM SKY DIGIBOX X1 AND SKY+ DIGIBOX X2)
Yes as far as I know. Don't have Sky+ but any specs I've read indicate separate RF outputs from each digital tuner.

Sky+ can only output one channel at a time. There are two digital tuners in it but only one decoder. The two RF sockets are to allow more than one TV to be connected up (exactly the same as regular Sky) but you can only watch one channel (or a recording) at any given time.

byte

Originally posted by DTV
3. BASICALLY I AM USING F-TYPE SPLITTERS AS COMBINE CAN I DO THIS?, I HAVE HEARD OF TAPS ARE THESE BETTER FOR COMBINING SIGNALS AND WHERE CAN I BUY THEM.
.

An 8way Splitter? That would cause quite considerable loss. You'd need to run a decent indoor amp before teh splitter, to make up for the loss.

What's your signal levels like at the moment?

Aquos76

Originally posted by shabbyroad
Hi DTV and welcome to the boards
now.... PLEASE STOP SHOUTING....

@DTV

Bascially when someone writes in CAPS LOCK within the boards is is generally regarded as shouting

DTV

'@DTV

Bascially when someone writes in CAPS LOCK within the boards is is generally regarded as shouting


__________________
Leonard....'


Sorry caplocks not meant to cause offense

Cheers thank ShaneOC , just thought it was possible.

'What's your signal levels like at the moment?'

I dont know this is still all in theory

3. Basically I am thinking of using f-type spliiter to combine the signals together, Can I do this without reducing the quality of the picture, I have heard of 'taps' does anyone know what these are and where could I buy them

I want two combine UHF signals (Sky+ RF out, Second Sky RF out, TV3/TG4 and Modulator) and VHF signals (RTE 1/Net2 and FM) using a 4-way splitter and 2-way splitter respectively to combine the signals, but I have heards of 'taps' does anyone know what they are? When signal are combined I will connect them to an amp

I intend using an antiference distribution amp (A28L)

http://www.antiference.co.uk/da.htm

The amp has separate inputs for UHF and V

1. Do I need masthead amps at the top of the aerials UHF and VHF?

5. I also want to distribute my PC display using a video sender, send the signal into the attic and modulating the signal to RF and connecting it to the 4-way combiner would this work

6. Where is the best place to buy these kind of items?

Any help much appreciated.

byte

Hmm, you're looking for quite a complex setup there! Watty would probably be of help at this juncture.

And no, taps aren't what you need I don't think

Basically, there are many types of taps, and the main uses are for connection to many many TV's. Used by cable companies, hotels, etc.

Basically the main signal is "tapped" and the tapped outputs have an attenuated output. The amount of attenuation depends on the type of Tap, and what type depends on the levels of the main signal.

Originally posted by DTV

2. DO I NEED MASTHEAD AMPLIFIERS AT THE TOP OF THE UHF AND VHF AERIALS?

No you shouldn't if you are reasonably within the Mt Leinster or kippure service areas.
Pear a bit of co-ax down about 2ft or so and put a plug on the end, having tuned in any of the channels from those tx's that you want to watch and if you are getting goodish snowy pictures with that, then your outdoor will be fine.

DTV

Cheers thanks byte and Man

So I shouldnt lose substantual signal when I use the splitters as a combiners

Also in relation to wall plate diplexers will the TV point support VHF signals or just UHF? (splits Signal UHF and FM)

5. I also want to distribute my PC display using a video sender, send the signal into the attic and modulating the signal to RF and connecting it to the 4-way combiner would this work

6. Where is the best place to buy these kind of items?

Any help much appreciated.

Aquos76

Originally posted by byte
Hmm, you're looking for quite a complex setup there! Watty would probably be of help at this juncture.

Speaking of Watty, he has been keeping very quite for the last number of weeks. I for one miss his excellent knowledge on this type of set-up.

byte

What are the frequency channels for your terrestrial TV stations? This would help on figuring out how to combine them. There definitely would need to be some LoopThrough wiring I reckon to keep it simple.

You could use an old VCR as a modulator for your PC wireless receiver.

DTV

VHF RTE 1 183MHz and 190MHz Net 2 207MHz and 215Mhz

UHF TV3 511MHz and 799MHz TG4 489MHz and 755MHz

Do not know what I am goin to set Sky Digibox and Sky+ Digibox to also modulatoed video signal + a camera that is via UHF Signal not sure of the frequency, how many channels can I fit on UHF without signals interfering?

Reason I do not want to loop through is I want to each signal independent of base station.

in relation to wall plate diplexers will the TV point support VHF signals or just UHF? (splits Signal UHF and FM) do you know any thing about these?

Mike 1972

VHF RTE 1 183MHz (Kippue) and 190MHz (Mt Leinster)
Net 2 207MHz (Kippue)and 215Mhz (Mt Leinster)
UHF TV3 511MHz (Mt Leinster) and 799MHz (Kippue)
TG4 489MHz (Mt Leinster) and 755MHz (Kippue)

You can set the sky and sky + boxes to output on different UHF channels (21-68) although It might take some expermentation to find a channel pair that dont interfere with each other and or TV3/TG4 although its still doable
The menu sequence is
Services 4 select 01 select 4 select

You will then need to retune the TV to find which channel number youve moved the digibox to (470-854 Mhz)

The formula for converting UHF channel numbers (21-69) to MHz frequencies is

Frequency = (Channel Number X 8) + 303.25
Thus for channel 21
Frequency = (21 X 8) + 303.25
Frequency = (168) + 303.25
Frequency = 471.25
Rounded to 471

(Channels are spaced 8MHz apart so Ch 22 is 479 MHz Ch 23 is 487 MHz etc)

byte

Hmm, you're receiving from 2 Tx? You'll have to narrow it down to just one to combine. Which is the strongest? I guess there may be problems with interference from other Tx but we'll worry about that later.

Mt Leinster is Ch22 and C26 Group A. Kippure is C56/57 and C62 Group C/D.
Both using VHF BIII for RTE's.

To keep things simple you'll have to loopthrough one of the digiboxes.

Here is a simple method Ive just thought of. For this example I'll be using Mt Leinster as my incoming terrestrial signal.

Firstly, have both BIII and UHF Group A signals combined with UHF/VHF diplexer. Then signal going straight to Digibox. RF2 output of digibox back up to attic where it will be wired to a A side of A/E combiner [youll need to change RF output of skybox to something on Gr A].

Meanwhile, Sky+ RF2 output will be wired to E side of AE combiner [RF output will be C/D channel and preferably, the aerial will not be looped through this box using only Scart to connect it to TV]

Then, the output of AE combiner will be connected to the input of an old VCR which is to be used as a modulator for the PC wireless thingy. Then Out of VCR and into a distribution amplifier!

That's my relatively simple way of putting it! Other amplification may be required depending on incoming terrestrial signal.

But ya get the jist of it!

DTV

The problem with doin a loop through is that the signal I get from the camera via UHF is very weak, Is there no way I can just other way without interference happening,

I know its a lot more difficult but I have 5 different signals on UHF two skys, Tv3, TG4, modulated signal and UHF signal via camera (powered by local transmitter) thus when I do a loopthrough I get a weak signal .

Tony

Originally posted by DTV
The problem with doin a loop through is that the signal I get from the camera via UHF is very weak,

Are you sure its weak and not overloaded? Too strong is as bad as too weak . There could also be cross modulation taking place. A good rule of thumb is , if possible, dont have two channels within 5 or 9 channels of each other IE chanell 45 and 50 or channel 45 and 54.

Tony

DTV

The camera signal is fixed channel but I am not sure what frequency

byte

Oh, I hadn't realised the camera signal was already modulated to UHF. That's my thought-out plan somewhat down the drain.

Though there is no good reason why the camera cannot loop through unless it's not looped correctly or as Tony suggested, is suffering co channel interference.

watty

Cheapest way (and effective) is to buy a 4 way RF distribution AMP and split each output in two with a Y splitter.

Some cheap splitters use resistors or just short all the pins. Avoid. The Y shaped splitters and all the ones with F-connectors use a little black bead toriod transformer and thus work better.


The signals to feed the distribution amp can be combined by RF loop through or splitters used in reverse.

Add the sources one at a time and check all the channels on all the TVs. It a source causes herring bone pattern on another channel, retune it or add a 6dB in-line attenuator.


Watty.

I have PC (4 birds Digital Satellite) , S-VHS, ordinary VHS, 2 x Analog Satellite, 4 terrestrial channels and Digibox combined like this. I did have a 2nd Digibox too, but since all the BBC is now FTA I sold it and use PC for BBC.

My 4 way RF amp does not work with Sky Eye (but I have two sets of Video senders). A Global Brand model 4 way amp does. The better F-Connector 2 Way splitters will pass the Sky Eye 9V DC from amp to TV and the reverse remote RF signal back (Which the RF2 out Digibox converts internally to remote commands).

Or make Digibox last item and have TWO 4way RF amps, one cheap one on RF1 Out and a Global one on RF2 out to allow remote eye.

I have the Digibox as last item and use RF1 for local TV at Digbox and RF2 out to feed the distribution amp (housed in a different room)

byte

Originally posted by LurkingIcon

The better F-Connector 2 Way splitters will pass the Sky Eye 9V DC from amp to TV and the reverse remote RF signal back (Which the RF2 out Digibox converts internally to remote commands).

Having tried out many F-type splitters, one I found to work was a Philex branded one, with powerpass on one leg only. Also, a Fringe Inductive Splitter will work as again, power passes on one leg only.

watty

That makes sense... One PSU feeds mast amp and 2nd leg better without power.

If you prise off the lid there may be a small series capacitor.

The ones I have I got from Hills Electronics by mail order.

I actually bought them (and some 2 way + tap) simply for the box and integral F-Connectors. I have a few with "other circuits" inside instead of the splitter coil.

DTV

That great so the 4-way splitter can be used as a combiner thanks

Add the sources one at a time and check all the channels on all the TVs. It a source causes herring bone pattern on another channel, retune it or add a 6dB in-line attenuator.


I'm only a beginner what is a 6db in-line attenuator?

Could install a digital by-pass connection instead, if so where do I install this?

DTV

Just to say thank everybody for all their help, much appreciated I would be grateful anyone could tie up a few loose ends

Add the sources one at a time and check all the channels on all the TVs. It a source causes herring bone pattern on another channel, retune it or add a 6dB in-line attenuator


I'm only a beginner what is a 6db in-line attenuator?

Could install a digital by-pass connection instead, if so where do I install this?