Keane; "I could still play for Ireland"

Tellox · 31-12-2003 5:55am #1

Here we go again...Roy has one again stirred up another Irish-international news story.

Roy Keane believes that despite medical opinion he could still play for the Republic of Ireland but that he is unsure if he could play alongside a couple of the Irish players.

Keane retired from international football after walking out of the 2002 World Cup training camp but seemed destined to make a comeback under new boss Brian Kerr, only for his Manchester United surgeon to advise that he should stay in international retirement in order to rest his troublesome hip.

Keane has returned to his best at club level with United and has now indicated that he feels he could still do a job for the Republic.

“I do feel I could still do a job for Ireland,” admitted Keane. “Then again, there are one or two players I wouldn’t fancy playing with because of what happened.

“I watch some of the games and I think I could definitely do a job for the team.

“But because I fell okay now, it doesn’t mean that I’ve forgotten about what the surgeon told me about how important it is to rest my hip.

“John O’Shea tells me they’re getting looked after, so at least something good came out of what happened.

“When Brian took over the temptation was to go back because I knew things would be done properly, but I feel I’ve made the right decision.”

- http://www.eleven-a-side.com/boysingreen/story.asp?newsid=9131

Personally, I think his days as an Irish international are over...

BKtje · 31-12-2003 6:03am

jesus this really is getting old.

I wonder how much is the journalist probing and Keane saying that he genuinely wants to play again. Tbh i dont care anymore, love it if he played but i aint gonna get worked up over it (again

).

The_B_Man · 31-12-2003 6:04am

hes a waster!! i wud personally have my testicles nono-anaesthetically removed by the teeth of a vampire in exchange for playing one full game for the irish international team!!! any1 that retires due to roy keane-esque stuff is a waster! i wud happuily live testicle-less for my remaining days if i just got 1 game for ireland. he had the oopurtunity to play in the world cup for ireland. now that a diff story. my testicle-less-ness was for a friendly or a qualifier!!! if i was 2 paly 4 ireland in te world cup, i wud exchange both my testicles, my left lung, my left kidny, and a few others!! he is a complete waster! the only positive thing i can see is the fact that he wants to play 4 ireland again which makes him not a complete leprosy infected leper!! if i was him and i retired, i'd miss representing my country so bad i'd kill all the saipanese ppl just 2 get a game! and also kill all the FAI! i am so very passionate about supporting my country, regardless of sport, that i cant understand why he or garry kelly retired early! i know he was sayin bout his injury but 2-5 games a year extra wont do fuk all!!! i honestly think representing ur country is the highest honour and the one thing i think will be missing from my life when im on my death bed! i think we shud let him play again for us if he is serious about it! otherwise he can go fuk himself! simple as that!

Tray · 31-12-2003 9:08am

Originally posted by The_B_Man
hes a waster!! i wud personally have my testicles nono-anaesthetically removed by the teeth of a vampire in exchange for playing one full game for the irish international team!!! any1 that retires due to roy keane-esque stuff is a waster! i wud happuily live testicle-less for my remaining days if i just got 1 game for ireland. he had the oopurtunity to play in the world cup for ireland. now that a diff story. my testicle-less-ness was for a friendly or a qualifier!!! if i was 2 paly 4 ireland in te world cup, i wud exchange both my testicles, my left lung, my left kidny, and a few others!! he is a complete waster! the only positive thing i can see is the fact that he wants to play 4 ireland again which makes him not a complete leprosy infected leper!! if i was him and i retired, i'd miss representing my country so bad i'd kill all the saipanese ppl just 2 get a game! and also kill all the FAI! i am so very passionate about supporting my country, regardless of sport, that i cant understand why he or garry kelly retired early! i know he was sayin bout his injury but 2-5 games a year extra wont do fuk all!!! i honestly think representing ur country is the highest honour and the one thing i think will be missing from my life when im on my death bed! i think we shud let him play again for us if he is serious about it! otherwise he can go fuk himself! simple as that!

*runs screaming away from thread and silly man*:rolleyes:

DiscoStu · 31-12-2003 9:20am

as someone said on the last word a few months back, if roy keane was in the gpo in 1916 he would have complained that the british were better trained, had better guns and had a greater tactical advantage. he would have then slipped out the back door in a huff.

forget about him. he aint coming back and i doubt there are many left who would have him anyway.

gandalf · 31-12-2003 9:27am

LOL Discostu thats brilliant !! Must remember next time a Scum head mouths off !

As for Keane, he turned his back on the country when he was needed and when most other Footballers who weren't picked would have played on a pitch covered with barbed wire for just the opportunity to play in a World Cup.

He's history forget about him.

Gandalf.

Xterminator · 31-12-2003 9:35am

What exactly do people think he has said that is **** stirring, or controversial?

"I do feel I could still do a job for Ireland ... I watch some of the games and I think I could definitely do a job for the team”

There is no doubt he would be an asset in the green shirt.
We dont have the midfield choices we once had. Nothing controversial here.

“Then again, there are one or two players I wouldn’t fancy playing with because of what happened. "

Pretty realistic here. He's not trying to say its me or them, just acknowledging the issue.
One real danger of Roy's coming back, is that it might cause problems in the irish camp. (Just look at the dutch, they've been doing it fo years!)
I thinks it s fair for Roy to say he would feel less than comfortable playing along side players that made some of the less flattering public comments on the Roy saga. And it would be fair to say some of these might be uncomfortable playing alonside Roy.

"John O’Shea tells me they’re getting looked after, so at least something good came out of what happened....When Brian took over the temptation was to go back because I knew things would be done properly"

Its universally accepted that there was a problem. Its nice to hear that in O'Shea's opinion things are done right now! TBH I believed the curerent irish manager would settle for nothing less.

"But because I fell okay now, it doesn’t mean that I’ve forgotten about what the surgeon told me about how important it is to rest my hip.... but I feel I’ve made the right decision.”

Seems he is saying he feels he was justified in making himself unavailable for the internationals.
Of course he thinks he was justified! There is no question that resting on international weekends helps his body recover from the strain of top flight football, recover from little niggling injuries and prolong his playing days!

Given that Sir alex has taken the opportunity to rest him in a few games this season, and seeing Roy recapture something of his best form, it would seems this decision was a good one for both Roy Keane and ManU. Again how is roy stirring things?

This article hints that Brian could ask Roy to return for a specific match, or couple of matches, especially if there was a situation where number of injuries that rule out current key players like duff and holland for a crucial qualifiyer .
Whats the harm in that?
Brian can ignore it, or if he's stuck, he has the option of calling Roy.

Its better to have the option, than not to have a choice eh?

X

Thanx 4 The Fish · 31-12-2003 10:08am

But he does not have the option of calling on Rpy. He did this when Kerr took over, made suggestions that he would when Mc Carthy was gone, then went off on him too. If kerr calls him then it will be more of the same, "Ya know I'd love to but.."

btw STU, that's a classic

Big Chief · 31-12-2003 10:27am

*yawn*

James R · 31-12-2003 11:52am

The bottom line is that i don't think Utd will let him. Keane has already complained about not playing in every match for Utd this season when he feels great, if he didn't have the international breaks Fergie would probably play him even less.

James R · 31-12-2003 11:53am

Incidentally a poor Landsdowne Road pitch still torn up from a rugby match a few days ago is hardly the best surface for someone with a bad hip

The Muppet · 31-12-2003 12:10pm

Obviously a slow news day. Nuff said about this non story, its never going to happen.

Keano was right, FAI are tosspots, end of.

20 Times 20 Times · 31-12-2003 12:54pm

does kerr even want him back?

smemon · 31-12-2003 1:32pm

Originally posted by Sarge
does kerr even want him back?

want him back? what do you mean want him back?!

anyway, utd look after him, always have, they treat him like royalty and he repays them. his loyalty lies in manchester, not in the backstabbing irish camp. would be interesting to see utd play sunderland maybe next season. keane -v- mc carthy.

20 Times 20 Times · 31-12-2003 1:37pm

Originally posted by smemon
want him back? what do you mean want him back?!

anyway, utd look after him, always have, they treat him like royalty and he repays them. his loyalty lies in manchester, not in the backstabbing irish camp. would be interesting to see utd play sunderland maybe next season. keane -v- mc carthy.

and your point ??
my question was basically has kerr said at some stage that he would take him back .... your question or point is ??

The Muppet · 31-12-2003 1:53pm

The point being Keane would walk into any National squad and had he been treated properly he would still be playing for Ireland and we would all be looking forward to our participation in Portugal next summer.

Ronaldo7 · 31-12-2003 2:34pm

The fai may be tosspots but Keane is a ****ing scumbag. i support utd and love roy keane as a player but for ****s sake, some of the things he has done is wrong. Admitting to getting your man Halland back on purpose and consequently ending his career...i mean the guys a scumbag. Walking out on us in the world cup was wrong. He should have played and then retired. You dont just give up on the team. Thats the whole point of a team - you work togeather. he was being a prick cos the facilities where he plays is amazing and it wasnt there but surely as a professional he should have been man enough to sit through it on this one occasion and then fight for it when he was back. He turned his back on ireland and is a scumbag for that and what he admitted in his book. Its wrong behaviour and hes an odd ball. he loves Utd more than he does Ireland and thats all that needs to be said.

The Muppet · 31-12-2003 2:39pm

The fai may be tosspots but Keane is a ****ing scumbag.

You're no united supporter pal.

I have "discussed" this issue with you before in one of your many previous incarnations so you know my opinion on it. No point getting into it again its a non issue now.

Lennoxschips · 31-12-2003 2:41pm

if roy keane was in the gpo in 1916 he would have complained that the british were better trained, had better guns and had a greater tactical advantage. he would have then slipped out the back door in a huff.

Exactly, and he'd have been right, and he'd have lived to see another day, while the Mick McCarthys of the uprising got their glorious failure.

But there you go...

DaithiSurfer · 31-12-2003 2:52pm

Its not like he would have died on a football pitch now is it.
Absolutely no excuse for walking out on the Irish team at all.
When i have a bad day at work and my boss in on my back i grin and bear it and decide to move job

but i dont walk out there and then.

Then he has the balls to go on about other players attitudes and them thinking 'sure we're only ireland we'll never win the world cup'.
Newsflash Roy, whatever those guys were thinking and whatever facilities they had they TRIED, which is more than you did you moany sissy.

Thanx 4 The Fish · 31-12-2003 3:10pm

Originally posted by The Muppet
You're no united supporter pal.

I have "discussed" this issue with you before in one of your many previous incarnations so you know my opinion on it. No point getting into it again its a non issue now.

Why is that ? Is it because he disagrees with you ? Even if you were a fan of United you have got to recognise that Keane is a bit of a scumbag, purposely setting out to injure a player, alleged beating of women (there are people who back up the allegation but they may or may not be creditable), never mind some of the stories going around about what he was like when he was a trainee. I am a liverpool fan but I recognised that when fowler did the sniffing the line celebration he went too far. Surely a Man U fan can recognise that Roy Keane is a bit of a skanger.

eirebhoy · 31-12-2003 3:20pm

Originally posted by Thanx 4 The Fish
Surely a Man U fan can recognise that Roy Keane is a bit of a skanger.

If you were brought up in Mayfield it is hard not to be a skanger. No place in Dublin comes close to Mayfeild for Skangerism.

PHB · 31-12-2003 4:11pm

I'm a Man United fan and I think Keane is a scumbag.
However it doesn't change the fact that he is the best player ever to have come out of Ireland and still is, I don't think you'll find many people who disagree with it.

It would be great if he played for Ireland, it would mean we'd have a world class midfielder when our midfield is weak.

However I think he is just bloody annoying when he says things like this.
If he wants to return, he can walk up to Kerr and say he wants to play, hes organising this so that Kerr has to call him, and if he plays he becomes a Hero, and if he doesn't he can be the reason why we lost, "Oh if only we had Keane."

I'd love to see him play, I think it would get us into the World Cup and get us into a 1/4 and if we're incredibly lucky a semi, but until he says "I WANT TO PLAY LET ME PLAY PLEASE I DONT CARE ABOUT THE PAST LETS JUST PLAY SOME FOOTBALL" hes just bloody annoying.

bus77 · 31-12-2003 4:47pm

Originally posted by DiscoStu
as someone said on the last word a few months back, if roy keane was in the gpo in 1916 he would have complained that the british were better trained, had better guns and had a greater tactical advantage. he would have then slipped out the back door in a huff.

I wouldnt follow Mcarty up the road, let alone into the GPO.

The Muppet · 31-12-2003 4:48pm

When i have a bad day at work and my boss in on my back i grin and bear it and decide to move job but i dont walk out there and then.

Kean never walked out on anyone, what he did was mak adecision that he was not prpared to take risks that would jepordise his healt and the interest of his employer, Manchester United and fair play to him.

Why is that ? Is it because he disagrees with you ?

Unlike some I have no problem with people having different opinions than myself.

I have my reasons for my comment and any proclaimed united fan who slags off Keano is IMO of the Glory hunting variety for which united are so famous, and true united fans so ashamed..

Keanes Personal life is of no interest to me , I judge him by what he does on the football pitch and taking all things into consideration United fans are more than happy with his contibution.

Happy Now

Pepe LeFrits · 31-12-2003 5:02pm

Originally posted by The Muppet
I have my reasons for my comment and any proclaimed united fan who slags off Keano is IMO of the Glory hunting variety for which united are so famous, and true united fans so ashamed..

My grand-uncle has supported Man Utd longer than you have been alive, and he agrees with ronaldo7.

jesus_thats_gre · 31-12-2003 6:59pm

I saw the headline and thought what ****!

I am not gonna even bother reading or replying to this thread. The chap is a prick and he let his country down. No amount of excuses is gonna make me change my opinion on him.

jesus_thats_gre · 31-12-2003 6:59pm

I can see the amount of posts from The Muppet and am going to guess he is defending the bastard. Back to goggles!

Ronaldo7 · 31-12-2003 11:57pm

Originally posted by The Muppet
You're no united supporter pal.

I have "discussed" this issue with you before in one of your many previous incarnations so you know my opinion on it. No point getting into it again its a non issue now.

I dont need you to tell me what i am or am not. I know what i am. And i also know that when someone says "i went out to get that prick and i made sure i got him good" then saying he has no regrets for breaking someones leg and totally ending his career is a total ****ing scumbag. he is an unbelieveable footballer. No one disputed he wasn't. But he is a filthy scum bag for doing that and for walking out on ireland. Thats what he did...he walked out. theres only so much brownnosing you can do Muppet before you have to admit to the facts. He walked out on ireland. He called mick mcCarthy an "english ****" regardless of whether or not he was/is a good manager. A man who has earned his profession in England and lives there with his family to turn around and call someone an "english ****" is damn right wrong. And he is also a scumbag for that.

Kean never walked out on anyone, what he did was mak adecision that he was not prpared to take risks that would jepordise his healt and the interest of his employer, Manchester United and fair play to him.

Oh is that what it was, was it? he went over to play in the world cup, had a bad day, cried and whined and walked out on ireland and made us all look like tits then decided it was best for his health. Dont be so stupid. he walked out cos he didnt want to play for Ireland. Thats all there is to it. He waked out on us. he is a scumbag.

I have my reasons for my comment and any proclaimed united fan who slags off Keano is IMO of the Glory hunting variety for which united are so famous, and true united fans so ashamed

That is the most stupid statement i have ever read in my life...

Keane is a scumbag. he destroyed some lads career. Can you not see that? If that happened to Ruud Van Nistelrooy tomorrow and then the person who did it went out and wrote a book about ti saying "he got that prick good". Would you be satisfied? Would you not turn around and say the lad who did it is a filthy out and out scumbag. Yes, yes you would. End of discussion. Keane is a scumbag. If you cant see that. Your just a fake.

Aliminator · 01-01-2004 12:09am

Roy Keane (don't shame Robbie) is a past-it. just like George Best he bottled the chance he had to shine because he isn't a professional.
any more discussion about him only supports his actions.
here endeth discussion.

AngelofFire · 01-01-2004 2:43am

i am neither a man U fan or a corkman but im behind roykeane 100%. i agree that he is no saint. he is arrogant and quick tempered. however i believe that saipan was mccarthy`s fault. 2 days after roy and mick had agreed to bury the hatched mcarthy brought up his complaints on front of the players. he accussed roy of faking an injury and being disloyal to his country, had i of been in keanes position i would have felt the same way

i would like to see roy come back he would be an inspiration to rising stars like andy reid and liam miller.

The Muppet · 01-01-2004 11:43am

And i also know that when someone says "i went out to get that prick and i made sure i got him good" then saying he has no regrets for breaking someones leg and totally ending his career is a total ****ing scumbag.

Funny that the injury That ended Halland career was not to the leg that Keane Kicked. You seem to be of the naive opinion that Keano is the only soccer player ever to deliberately kick an opponent.

Thats what he did...he walked out. theres only so much brownnosing you can do Muppet before you have to admit to the facts.

If you want to back up your argument with facts it would be helpful if you used actual facts and not your misinterpretation of them. The Actual Fact is Mc Carthy sent Keane home, he walked out on no one. Keanes position was vindicated in the Independent enquirey commissioned by the FAI.

That is the most stupid statement i have ever read in my life...

Thats not really surprising, there's very little text in colouring books.

If you think My comments would not represent true United Fans opinion I suggest you go to one the the dedicated United forums (red issue or redcafe would be 2 that spring to mind) and replicate your comments abut Keane there. I think you'll find that my reply was rather mild in comparison to what you get there .

Posted By Kif

My grand-uncle has supported Man Utd longer than you have been alive, and he agrees with ronaldo7.

Bet he didn,t write off Utds and Arsenals as no hopers of winning anything this years when he saw Chelsea buy a few players .

Thanx 4 The Fish · 01-01-2004 12:18pm

He may or may not have written off Utd or Arsenal but that is not what is being discussed Muppet. That Roy Keane is a scumbag and that some Man United fans can think that without being called glory hunters is what is being discussed. And more importantly whether this is more of Keane blowing sh1t and if he did come back would it be a good thing for the irish soccer team.

BKtje · 01-01-2004 4:04pm

im still curious if the journalist asked keane (as in would there ever be a chance you'd play for ireland again) or if keane went to this journalist and said of his own accord the things he said. Huge difference imo.

James Hunt · 01-01-2004 4:30pm

I see that the article had succeeded in whipping up another storm on here at least. There was nothing in that report, it was just some waffle to print on a slow news day.

After reading the thread, I have to surmise that Ronaldo7 is misrepresenting a lot of the facts. Saying that Roy Keane walked out without stating the reasons for it (which are well known) is a bit disingenuous to be fair. Mick McCarthy is just a much to blame as Roy Keane is. Also, and as has already been said, Haaland's career ending injury was on the other leg. Finally, this misconception that Keane called McCarthy 'an english..' anything. Thats plain wrong. Also, his main contention with Keane is that he did not want to play for Ireland, which was totally correct at the time and remains so. There are reasons for it obviously and you can agree or disagree with those but to say that they are because Keane had a bad day, cried, whined etc are pretty childish to be honest. He did choose his health (or his club if you want to look at it that way) over his country when it came time to decide if he would play under Kerr - but that is his decision. He owes Ireland nothing. Just because some of you would give everything to play for Ireland doesn't mean that everyone would, especially if those same people had a career at Manchester United to go home to. There are some people who give the impression that they won't be happy until Roy Keane hobbles past them aged 45 with both hips replaced. He doesn't deserve that from anyone.

Anyone of those who say they wouldn't have Keane back in an Ireland shirt are just being silly in my opinion - they are the fakes, not Roy Keane.

The Muppet · 01-01-2004 6:13pm

Well said James Hunt thats it in a nutshell.

Posted by Thanx 4 The fish
He may or may not have written off Utd or Arsenal but that is not what is being discussed Muppet.

I would not be so small minded as to form an opinion on any poster here solely on oneof their posts. You accused me of slating Ronaldo 7 because he disagrre with me on the Keane issue and my comments about his Arsenal/Utd post were to indicate that I had further reasons for stating he was just a glory hunting Utd Fa, which i stand over. If anyone else wants to check up on the posts of Ronaldo7 /Ubahone/50 cent they will find plenty of evidence to support my opinion of him.

Ronaldo7 · 01-01-2004 6:19pm

I share a house with a hell of a lot more people under nicknames than the ones you have there. All of us here are registered so why dont you do your homework again and mention the rest of them?

Keane walked out on Ireland. He abused the manager at the time. And that left th emanager with no choice but to send him home.

My boss tells me to do something, i do not always want to do it. But under no circumstances do i tell him to "**** off you english ****". What would he do if i said that to him? Fire me in a second. And that would be expected. Football is no different.

Keane was an absolute cry baby over in Saipan. He was a disgrace for acting like a pre madonna.

Everyone would love a player as good as Roy Keane playing for Ireland. theres no disagreements there. What is clear however is that he chose not to play for Ireland at the most critical time of Internation football. He was a disgrace.

I apologise for getting the whole leg thing mixed up but what is clear is he deliberately set out to injure him and that he did. Thats wrong. hes not alone doing it. But this and the rest makes him a scumbag.

I love him as a player. hes the rock of Man Utd. But hes a scumbag...thats all there is to it.

phenom · 01-01-2004 6:24pm

Keane walked out on Ireland. He abused the manager at the time. And that left th emanager with no choice but to send him home.

cant you see what you are saying . youve just said that he walked on on Ireland and the manager sent him home are you sure he did both or was it just the manager sent him home

Thanx 4 The Fish · 01-01-2004 6:44pm

Just to put your mind at rest Ronaldo, there is no way that muppet could tell if you were posting from the same house as somebody else unless he asked an admin who wouldn't tell him anyway.

BTW I never said anybody slated anybody, I just asked a question of you. A question you have still not answered. I wanted to know if you felt Ronaldo was no fan of Man U because he disagreed with you that's all, it was shown that there are others that disagreed with you too who have been man U fans for longer than you have, does that make you no Man United fan because you disagree with them ? Or are they just "Glory Hunters" too ?

Ronaldo7 · 01-01-2004 7:08pm

Originally posted by phenom
cant you see what you are saying . youve just said that he walked on on Ireland and the manager sent him home are you sure he did both or was it just the manager sent him home

but he did. Officially he was sent home. But its as clear as day, he had no intention of playing for Ireland with his attitude. He was a cry baby from the second he got there. He totally abandoned the team with his attitude and let Ireland down. Only a fool would say otherwise.

The Muppet · 01-01-2004 7:08pm

Keane walked out on Ireland. He abused the manager at the time. And that left the manager with no choice but to send him home.

At least you're getting nearer to accepting the facts but I would argue if Mc Carthy thought Keane was going to back down when confronted it illustrates His lack of man management skills. As James Hunt said there was no need for Mc Carthy to inflame the situation.

My boss tells me to do something, i do not always want to do it. But under no circumstances do i tell him to "**** off you english ****". What would he do if i said that to him? Fire me in a second. And that would be expected. Football is no different.

Keane's boss Scottish and has no problem with him.

What is clear however is that he chose not to play for Ireland

You have already accepted that Mc Carthy sent him home. Make your mind up will ya. Its true that there were moves to get Keane back but these were scuppered when th players issued their statement saying they didn',t want him.
Why did they do that? Were they pressured into it as it is very unlikely they did it on their own.

I apologise for getting the whole leg thing mixed up but what is clear is he deliberately set out to injure him and that he did. Thats wrong. hes not alone doing it. But this and the rest makes him a scumbag.

Fair enough thats the usual propaganda from the anti Keane camp but IMO its surprising that a Manchester United Supporter would not be aware of the full FACTS of this well documented incident.

As for the scumbag remark I don't Know him personally so would not be in a position to comment on his personality but from what I,ve read on him like most of us he has made mistakes in the past, he does a lot of charity work for which he seeks no publicity and he ha admitted publically to some of his mistakes. We,re all the product of our society/ upbringing and whatever that makes us there's not much we can do about it.

Thanx 4 the fish I answered your question in the last parargraph in my last post.

Ronaldo7 only a fool would continue to misrepresent the facts in such a well publicised incident.

Ronaldo7 · 01-01-2004 7:14pm

the muppet would you seriously cop on? Are you seriously retarded?

You know damn bloody right that im referring to McCarthy when i said keane told his boss to "**** off you english ****". Dont try and avoid it.

You have already accepted that Mc Carthy sent him home. Make your mind up will ya. Its true that there were moves to get Keane back but these were scuppered when th players issued their statement saying they didn',t want him.

HE CHOSE NOT TO PLAY FOR IRELAND, you dont abuse team members and the manager and expect to still be there. He was crying and whining and knew right away he was not going to be a proper professional and play for Ireland. He thinks he is better than Ireland and doesn't want to play for them. Accept it for ****s sake.

Muppet you need help...

Ronaldo7 · 01-01-2004 7:15pm

He deliberately set out to injure a player and wrote a book about it. Hes a scumbag. A filthy scumbag.

gandalf · 01-01-2004 7:15pm

As usual a Roy Keane thread degenerates into crud. Surprise Surprise.

Closed.

Gandalf.

Keane; "I could still play for Ireland"

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