A very important issue - Do NOT sign the "Save Irish" petition.

ReefBreak

I've posted this on the "Gaeilge (Irish)" board also...

I like Irish, but is driving me fúcking nuts. I have received an email from about 4 different people asking me to "demand that the Irish language be declared an official working language of the European Union."

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?gaedhilg

Crikey. There already over 34,000 saddos that have signed this, usually with some sort of MOPE invective attached.

Look, there are currently 11 "official working languages" in the EU: German (spoken by Germany, Austria and Belgium), English (UK and Ireland), Spanish, Danish, Finnish, French (France and Belgium), Dutch (Netherlands and Belgium), Greek, Italian, Portuguese and Swedish (Sweden and Finland). When the EU is expanded, this list will be increased to 20 to encompass the new entrants.

Catalan, Basque, Welsh, Irish, Flemish are just a few of the languages that are NOT considered Official Working Languages. In fact, Catalan would be the seventh most spoken language (10 million speakers) were it Official.

A working language means that all "EU treaties and regulations are published in them. As they are working languages, all internal and procedural documents are published in them and official meetings must take place with simultaneous translation." *

So in the case of Irish, every official EU document and and every official EU meeting would have to be translated into Irish. It was be a pointless waste of time and money. In fact there might not even be any native Irish speakers left in Ireland - they'd all be working in Brussels. :-)

This petition is the most pointless, nit-picky, pathetic, waste of time ever. Don't sign it - it's another Internet poll that makes us look bunch of sad and repressed gobsheens.

* Quote from here

BKtje

Agreed Reefbreak and ty for clearing up what exactly an official language is

ReefBreak

Today's Irish Times has an excellent letter on the subject, some of which I've typed out:

The EU already supports Irish through it's minority language programs and the European Bureau for Lesser Used Languages, which has two main offices, in Brussels and Dublin. Irish is an equal and official language for primary documentation (such as Treaties), and any EU citizen has the right to address the European Courts in Irish. However, providing this service for MEPs and bureaucrats would serve no purpose.

honru

It makes a whole lot of sense now. Thanks ReefBreak for clearing that up, I really didn't know if the removal of Irish had any significance.

Töpher

Well said.

ReefBreak

Originally posted by f®eak s©enery
It makes a whole lot of sense now. Thanks ReefBreak for clearing that up, I really didn't know if the removal of Irish had any significance.

Glad to help. It was really getting on my nerves. Note that you can't remove anything that wasn't actually there in the first place.

honru

Originally posted by ReefBreak
Note that you can't remove anything that wasn't actually there in the first place.

Touchè. :cool:

Cake Fiend

Yet another example of morons getting up in arms about something they have no clue about.

I don't give a crap about the Irish language, but I haven't even expressed my own opinion on the subject (that it should probably not be bothered with) before because I haven't researched the subject well enough. Is it ironic that an uncultured heathen like myself has better sense than these people?

Add that to the fact that I've always though an online petition will carry about as much weight as the paper it's written on.

MrNuked

I'd like to sign a petition to abolish compulsory study of Irish after primary school. Is fuath liom Gaéilge!

BuffyBot

Finally someone speaking sense...

Dustaz

Originally posted by Sico
Yet another example of morons getting up in arms about something they have no clue about.

Precisely my thoughts. Ive seen the two pro-petition threads here, but havent had time to really get angry and reply to the idiots cos by the time i finish work they have dropped off the radar.

sceptre

Kudos ReefBreak - stop people making fools of themselves.

A three minute search on the web would have been enough to get info that the thing was, er, misguided

Elmo

I think that it is up to you to discide weather or not you sign such a petition.

Not this forum.

weather you like the Irish lanuage or not it is one of the offical lanuages of Ireland, Under our Consititution.

The main reason behind this petition is so that Irish becomes a working lanuage, so that the Lanuage can grow and develop.

We have not treated the lanuage well at all. Especially in the way that we teach it in schools but I think that this is a problem with most lanuages in Irish Schools.

Anyway, I will if I want, but I tend not to sign petitions anyway.

So in the case of Irish, every official EU document and and every official EU meeting would have to be translated into Irish. It was be a pointless waste of time and money

Sure they might as well just print them in english as most people speck english anyway.

Anyway I think that if the Government wanted the Irish lanuage to grow and develop they would do more, e.g. The Dept. of Gealteacht, Island etc. to be Decentralised to Irish speaking parts with a Minister that can speak the lanuage fluently, and that all the civil servants also speak the lanuage with in that Dept on a daily basis. Prehaps they already do.

Kudos ReefBreak - stop people making fools of themselves.

Yes that reminds me to set up a petition to stop people making a fool of themselves because you know I am no fool (Do you see the sarcasim in that sentence)

Anyway its up to you weather you sign anything or not.

simu

It's only an on-line petition! Since when has the government been worried about what ppl think (apart from before elections!).:)


The annoying thing about it is that there are many other, more practical things that could be done to support the language but instead, people get all worked up about this petition.

sceptre

Originally posted by Elmo
The main reason behind this petition is so that Irish becomes a working lanuage, so that the Lanuage can grow and develop.

No it isn't (did you read anything posted above?)

The main point of this petition is to stop irish being dropped as an official language (or working language) of the EU.

As people have pointed out, Irish has /never/ been either.

Hence the petition is trying to prevent something happening when it can't happen in any case. In its current incarnation it has no purpose for existing.

Quod Erat Demonstrandum.

(if it was trying to get Irish designated as an official or working language it would actually have a point for discussion)

dathi1

absolutely.....Ban it altogether....anything that represents Irish culture shouldn't be recognised also. Basque, Catalan and Irish should be banned. They sound too much like local indigenous languages and like reef said make us sound like gonbeens etc....and what's the best excuse to not have them recognised? They're not working languages. If we do this we will be recognised as a forward thinking, progressive nation and our Euro masters will smile upon this land of sterile, non descript lackey, quislings. Deutschland uber alles.

totally off subject: what happened to the PD "Ard Fheis" (apologies) promise of flying the national flag outside every school?

Meh

Originally posted by dathi1
absolutely.....Ban it altogether....anything that represents Irish culture shouldn't be recognised also. Basque, Catalan and Irish should be banned. They sound too much like local indigenous languages and like reef said make us sound like gonbeens etc....and what's the best excuse to not have them recognised? They're not working languages. If we do this we will be recognised as a forward thinking, progressive nation and our Euro masters will smile upon this land of sterile, non descript lackey, quislings. Deutschland uber alles.

Why don't you practice what you preach and provide a translation of your post into Irish? In fact, all posts on boards should be accompanied by a translation into our national language, and boards should be forced to employ official translators (damn the expense, this is our national culture we're talking about) to translate the posts of non-Irish-speakers.

It was hilarious to read that petition and see all the comments in English...

Typedef

I think it's important for the State to attempt to exponenciate the Irish language, no, matter how futile, one might find the results, in reality.

Do I think the EU should have Irish as an offical language.

Personally, so long as the EU, keeps it's nose out of Irish foreign, defence and taxation affairs and there is no more 'Federal' encrochment of the EU, into the workings of this soverign state, I couldn't care less what the EU does.

In the event the EU moves more Federal (aside from the fact, I'd be utterly opposed to further moves towards a Federal State), then yes, I believe this State should use any and all leverage it has, to promote it's culture and history to the fullest extent, no matter how futile some may think that is.

sceptre

Originally posted by dathi1
Basque... They sound too much like local indigenous languages...

They sou... They sound similar?

I'm highlighting Basque up there as it doesn't sound like any local language that I can think of (Spanish or French, pick one). And it doesn't have common roots with any language that most of us can name. Or perhaps any recent language at all.

They sound similar?

heh.

Elmo

Quod Erat Demonstrandum.

Well done use latin (another dead lanuage) to prove your point.


There is another petition that I think you should care more about and thats the Micheal Jackson petition WHAT A LOAD OF BULL.

www.petitiononline.com

sceptre

Originally posted by Elmo
Well done use latin (another dead lanuage) to prove your point.

Thanks. I used to be semi-fluent in both Latin and Welsh once upon a time in the distant past (just in written Latin obviously (and without any modern terms), though I wouldn't have had any truck with that sissy soft choo choo middle ages church latin). I didn't go crying into my milk every time someone said something nasty about either language either mind. I'm not going to do that now either.

by the way, QED doesn't prove my point, it states that the point has been proved. Subtle difference. I'd have put it in Irish but that would have been too ironic:).

The Beer Baron

Bit it is a dead language- more so than Basque, Catalan and Welsh the three ones that have been bandied about in here. Your average Welshman or Basque can speak their own language a hellova lot better than your average Irishman- or that's been my personal experience. And wherever you meet a Welshman, no matter where I travel, its a love of their native language that comes from a respect for their own cultural identity. It doesn't happen because we're forcefed it (I've been down this on the other thread). Basically Irish is dying out because we stifled it ourselves.

Kudos to Michael D, and to TG4 (who show great movies too from time to time) but in all fairness we're an English speaking nation, not an Irish one. The Saorstáit blew it. Even the language itself seems struggling, trying, for decades to assert itself as a modern language and failing. What we're taught in schools isn't really Irish anyways-not like you'd hear in the Gaeltacht. Go to Rosmuc or someplace like that- it's an alien language. And in the Gaeltacht it's dying too- I was in Ballyvourny a few years back- isn't that supposed to be a Gaeltacht? Didn't hear one person speaking it.

So should Irish be recognised by the EU as an official language. Not really. Maybe if we all learned to bloody well speak it (and I'm as guilty as anyone of that) and all of us together changed to Irish-speakers then with a large proportion of voters the EU might change its mind and it would be worth their while to adopt it but that ain't gonna happen- ever.

But I wonder- are the Welsh bitching? The Basques? I doubt it. Maybe some hardliner ETA sympathisers but their ranks are growing thinner by the day too.

bonkey

Originally posted by The Beer Baron
Bit it is a dead language

No, its not. Irish as a language is still evolving, which by definition is what makes a language "not dead".

jc

Yoda

This letter from Monday’s Irish Times is a bit more balanced than ReefBreak’s rant. It isn't a model of perfect argumentation, but it puts a bit of perspective into it. It's a pity that some Irish people don't like Irish, but that's their problem really. Whether this petition affects EU translation policy isn't necessarily the point, however. The fact that 53,000 people have seen fit to sign it does mean something, and Government should take note.

Madam –

It now seems likely that, from next May the EU will have twenty official languages and Irish, the oldest, and , some would say the richest of all European languages will not be included. In May, EU law will be amended to ~ insert Estonian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Polish, Czech, Slovak, Hungarian, Slovene and Maltese, which has circa 380,000 speakers, something similar to Irish.

This means that from May next, all official documents will be translated only into the twenty official languages and will not be available in Irish in Ireland.

Furthermore, whenever job opportunities arise within the EU they will be open to EU citizens who can speak two or more official languages, thereby putting Irish citizens ata disadvantage as, Irish will be disregarded.

For each new official language the EU will employ 110 new translators and 40 new interpreters. If Irish were included, such opportunities would also be open to, Irish people.

The funding for all this will come from. the EU translation, budget, which currently costs €2 per person and to which Ireland will be contributing in any event.

The EU is based on diversity of different cultures, which makes multi-lingualism essential to the European project. As the influence of the EU in our everyday lives grows, any language excluded from EU business will come under great pressure. and its future will be in doubt. It can be both realistic and practical to have Irish as an official EU language as EU institutions may stipulate in their rules of procedure which official languages are to be used in specific cases. In practice, the normal day-to-day working languages used, for example, in the European Commission are English, French and increasingly German.

Relay languages are used in the translation of languages of, small nations, for example Maltese is translated into English, and then to Slovene and vice-versa. Such an arrangement would, address the practical difficulties of translation for Irish.

Next month the Taoiseach, Mr Ahern, takes over the role of EU President. It is vital that he now considers the future role of the Irish language in Europe. - Yours, etc.,

MATT NOLAN
Ballagh
Mullingar
Co. Westmeath

simu

Bit it is a dead language- more so than Basque, Catalan and Welsh the three ones that have been bandied about in here.

There are people of all ages who have Irish as their first language in existance.

There are people who speak the language every day.

The language is changing - new slang, new words for technology etc, pronunciation is changing slightly.

People are writing novels, poetry, journalism etc in the language.

That's hardly a dead language. A minority language, yes. A dead language, no!

Your average Welshman or Basque can speak their own language a hellova lot better than your average Irishman- or that's been my personal experience.

Yes. There are a lot of Irish people who don't have a word of Irish but there are also people here who use it daily and speak it fluently.

It doesn't happen because we're forcefed it (I've been down this on the other thread). Basically Irish is dying out because we stifled it ourselves.

Your sole experience of Irish seems to be having been taught it (badly, I presume from your post) at school. It's a pity that it's not taught better in schools but on the other hand, many people have similarly bad experiences with French or Maths. There's a world of Irish out there that has nothing to do with the Irish spoonfed into kids at school. Just because Irish in many schools is quite dead does not mean the world of Irish outside school is so.

Even the language itself seems struggling, trying, for decades to assert itself as a modern language and failing.

Not really. I know people who lean IT, science, all sorts of subjects through Irish at uni and don't have problems with it. Irish words are found/coined for new technological terms - as with any other living language, sometimes they catch on or sometimes the speakers make their own version up. Also, modern Irish literarture is every bit as innovative and experimanta las any other language in terms of style.

What we're taught in schools isn't really Irish anyways-not like you'd hear in the Gaeltacht.

True - they should reform the school courses.

And in the Gaeltacht it's dying too- I was in Ballyvourny a few years back- isn't that supposed to be a Gaeltacht? Didn't hear one person speaking it.

The thing about the Gaeltacht is that there is not a wall around it keeping non-Irish speakers out. How can you tell the locals from tourists? Even if locals have Irish, if there is one person there who has no Irish, they will have to speak English or some other language. The Cork Gaeltacht is pretty small and can seem to get drowned by the English speakig world at times but there are Irish-speakers there, you just have to make an effort to find them and to speak Irish with them.

BuffyBot

The fact that 53,000 people have seen fit to sign it does mean something,

Well, I disagree - simply because I think a proportion of those people signed it in the hysteria of not knowing what exactly was not going on

Yoda

I don't think that ReefBreak's view gives a balanced vision of "exactly what is going on". No one is suggesting seriously that every single EU document be translated into Irish, nor that a simultaneous translator be available at every meeting. What is advocated is status for the language which it doesn't have, and which will be accorded to other minority languages. Ireland should have a progressive policy with regard to its first official language. 53,000 signatures is not insignificant in terms of support for such policy.

ReefBreak

Originally posted by Yoda
I don't think that ReefBreak's view gives a balanced vision of "exactly what is going on". No one is suggesting seriously that every single EU document be translated into Irish, nor that a simultaneous translator be available at every meeting. What is advocated is status for the language which it doesn't have, and which will be accorded to other minority languages. Ireland should have a progressive policy with regard to its first official language. 53,000 signatures is not insignificant in terms of support for such policy.

There are other more widely spoken languages which do not have Official Working Status - Welsh, Flemish, Basque and especially Catalan (10 million speakers). This is about practicalities - it just does not make financial or common sense to make Irish a Working Language in the EU. To repeat myself, it would be a waste of time and money, because the native tongue of the majority of Irish EU employees in Brussels is English, not Irish. And 100% of those that have Irish as their native language can speak English anyway.

In my opinion, Yoda's (et al) opinions represent a sort of mild Gaelic Gestapo which tries to push Irish into places where it's not needed, or serves no purpose..

BuffyBot

No one is suggesting seriously that every single EU document be translated into Irish

People are making out like something has changed, that Irish is being "abandoned" as if it had previously been an offical language of the EU. I've even heard chinese whispered versions stating that the EU is going to remove Irish as an offical language of Ireland etc - which of course are both untrue. God only knows what other versions are going around. Of course all these little spins on the truth sent people scurrying to sign the petition. That is why it isn't a trustworthy statistic.

bonkey

Originally posted by Yoda

No one is suggesting seriously that every single EU document be translated into Irish,

Is that not an actual requirement for an official working language?

Wouldn't that mean that the petition would be meant to be read as saying that we want Irish made an OWL, and we want the requirements for OWLs changed so that including Irish amongst them doesn't actually require it to be treated as one in practice.

Whats the point of wanting the language to be made an OWL if you don't expect the language to actually be treated as one, if not just through nothing but pure snobbery?

Of course, if I'm wrong, and all documents do not need to be translated into each and every OWL, then just ignore me

jc

Victor

Originally posted by bonkey
Is that not an actual requirement for an official working language?

you are mixing your terms there. Working languages are the core group of major languages into which everything is translated. Official languages are those recognised by the EU and will have only a few documents translated into it, but will get substantial (proportionately) cultural support.

Yoda

What people want is for Irish to have the same status that Estonian and Maltese will – not less. Whatever the specifics of the petition, that's what people want.

earwicker

Originally posted by ReefBreak
In my opinion, Yoda's (et al) opinions represent a sort of mild Gaelic Gestapo which tries to push Irish into places where it's not needed, or serves no purpose..

Jaysus! Troll much?

segadreamcast

Originally posted by Yoda
What people want is for Irish to have the same status that Estonian and Maltese will – not less. Whatever the specifics of the petition, that's what people want.

A relatively small list of people which can't be verified, thus can't be trusted then? Oh yes.

Irish really shouldn't be recognised as a language - it's as simple as that.

BuffyBot

Originally posted by Yoda
What people want is for Irish to have the same status that Estonian and Maltese will – not less. Whatever the specifics of the petition, that's what people want.

No. No. No.

People, in general, wouldn't have two clues as to the status of Estonian and Maltese in the EU (or Irish before this "problem" came to light).

People are following a herd, of which a goodly proportion were ill-informed as to what it was all about.

Matt Simis

Originally posted by Yoda
The fact that 53,000 people have seen fit to sign it does mean something, and Government should take note.

The petition email was forwarded to me by a non-Irish person, because they assumed I would be interested. The previous people in the emails appeared to be foreign as well. I would guess quite a number of those signatures came from people who aren't Irish but "sympathise" with the situation. IMO, that greatly undermines the validity of such a petition and those figures you proudly spout.


Matt

Gearoid

Irish really shouldn't be recognised as a language - it's as simple as that.

O i see, even though it is a living language with it's own arts, literture - hell it even has modern films. Go to the places where Irish is spoken-the Aran Islands for example and tell the people then that there language isn't worthy of official status in an EU which has just decided to cut grants for the construction of currachs that they depend for fishing and therefore there income. while these are two seperate issues i think if things like this go on people are going to be alienated and in fairness it is a form of discrimination, we are the only country in the EU that the official language of the country isn't a recognised EU language, whether you speak it or because you don't hear it spoken means you don't think it should is irrelevant it is a living language and the first official language of the state as shown in the constituition-a document approved by the people.

To the people who are orchaestrating this thread, it's obvious the only problem you had with Irish is you had a bad experience with it in school and see this as a chance to get back at what you consider to be a grave injustice to you(and it is and was school Irish is a joke and the curriculum needs to be changed) But in fairness if Irish is given its proper entitelment as an official EU language it's not going to be any skin off your noses, It'll give employment to more Irish people therefore bringing money into the country albeit small. It's not forcing anything on you and while it's grand to have your say on this and what you think should happen i think you're just spliting hairs over an old grudge you had with school, Irish is a great language the days of Peig are over, people's attitudes are changing towards it-look at the popularity of Hector and the Amu series so it's appropriate that it gets this status on an international stage to finally shake off the old badge of slaves image and to show it is a truely modern day language.

vorbis

Its sad really that believing that Irish shouldn't be an official working language is perceived as being somehow anti the language's existence. Irish is currently a minority language. A someone else stated, anyone who can speak irish can also speak english. Therefore why a need to translate official documents to Irish? In fairness the EU often gets criticised for bloat. The one time they do try to make streamline their processes, they get even more criticism!

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Gearoid

That's economics. I know it's sad or what not but they have to modernise. No one would subsidise me to own a pony and trap to get to work so why should they get subsidised to have an outdated way of life?

You'd think that alright that by economics they should just move on but that really isn't it. The Currach is the most suited boat for Fishing around those areas, it has the manouverability and is cheap to repair etc, so really if u tell them to give up the currach you're making it a lot harder for them to fish and thus make a living trust me this is going against whats best for the people there. There way of life isn't outdated I stayed there 4 a while during the summer and believe they have everything SKY, convience foods etc- though I'll tell u they worked hard for it. you say they have an outdated way of life through fishing because of currachs? well what do u want them to do they have to live and where they are doesn't lend it's self to much else. You may as well tell them to move somewhere else. Economics isn't everything, people and their cultures mattered more and it's time everyone realised that.

In 1922! How many people who voted in 1922 are still alive? In 1922 you had to be at least 21 so the youngest people who are alive that voted in it are now over 100!

No it was written in 1937. Yes I hear you it's only 15 years later but fine then if people have such a problem with this then why didn't they lobby for a referendum on it? If u present a petition to the government with a certain amount of signatures(can't remember off top of my head) they have to hold a referendum. If you don't shout that you want something no one will know! what are they suppose to get rid of everything off the constituition thats over 20 years old?!!!

In fairness there is a lot more to it that that. I'm far more worried about wasting money than getting back at my Irish teachers.

Well from many of the posts you could be forgiven for thinking there was a personal bitterness there. As for efficient use of money well you don't have much power over that unless you work in the EU and as we're contributing enough we may as well get something back that is use to us as I said before at the end of the day People and culture is more important than economics-we're not all going to starve for the sake of a few leaflets printed.

Versus the cost of implementing it? I'd say it would run a loss!

Well we still have to pay the same amount into EU coffers anyway so it'll cost no more, you only have to supply enough for the Irish speaking population which is quite small. As someone pointed out people who speak Irish can also speak engish so all you have to do is give the Irish speakers Irish leaflets and english ones for English speakers!, So at the end of the day It's still the same amount of printing NO MORE THAN BEFORE!

The man speaks as much Spanish in the show as Irish!

Well it is a travel programme :rolleyes:

Gearoid

People, in general, wouldn't have two clues as to the status of Estonian and Maltese in the EU (or Irish before this "problem" came to light) People are following a herd, of which a goodly proportion were ill-informed as to what it was all about..

God I'm relieved at last someone who can speak for everyone and know what they think and why they do things without ever knowing them! :rolleyes:

Qadhafi

I think Irish should be a working language in the EU. Its our language, if its not widely used, people wont continue to speak it. Other Europeans wouldnt disregard their language like we do.

I can remember people saying GAA should just call it a day and we are only intrested in soccer. This isnt England and its only now that people are realising the value the GAA has contributed to the country.

In a few years Ireland is going to be a net contributor to the EU. We have already given something like €140bn to the EU (and have recieved €40 odd billion ) in fish stocks . If you dont think much of that, just go look at Galicia in the north of Spain etc and other places and how the whole region has prospered from it.

In light of all this giving, we have the right to have our own language used in brussels.

BuffyBot

Originally posted by Gearoid
God I'm relieved at last someone who can speak for everyone and know what they think and why they do things without ever knowing them! :rolleyes:

Thank you, I do try

Of course you are just as talented....

To the people who are orchaestrating this thread, it's obvious the only problem you had with Irish is you had a bad experience with it in school

Actually I don't have any particularily bad experiences with the language, I was just crap at it (as I was at French too). I've every intention of trying to make up for it at a later stage. However, the point I'm making about this issue is that Irish never was a official language of the EU, and there is no reason for it to be. What I was trying to point out is that there is so much mis-information about this topic.

I said in an earlier post:

People are making out like something has changed, that Irish is being "abandoned" as if it had previously been an offical language of the EU. I've even heard chinese whispered versions stating that the EU is going to remove Irish as an offical language of Ireland etc - which of course are both untrue. God only knows what other versions are going around. Of course all these little spins on the truth sent people scurrying to sign the petition. That is why it isn't a trustworthy statistic.

With such mis-information about this issues involved, the results of this petition can hardly be called accurate.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Victor

Originally posted by Yoda
What people want is for Irish to have the same status that Estonian and Maltese will – not less. Whatever the specifics of the petition, that's what people want.

But it already has the same rights (well technically it has more as Estonia and Malta aren't members yet) and will be getting enhanced rights under the EU Constitution.

Originally posted by Gearoid
No it was written in 1937. Yes I hear you it's only 15 years later but fine then if people have such a problem with this then why didn't they lobby for a referendum on it? If u present a petition to the government with a certain amount of signatures(can't remember off top of my head) they have to hold a referendum. If you don't shout that you want something no one will know! what are they suppose to get rid of everything off the constituition thats over 20 years old?!!!

I understand the 1937 constitution was an almost verbatim reworking of the Freestate constitution and was amended largely as a result of the royal abdication debacle. So in effect it was written in 1922 or whenever.

sceptre

Originally posted by Victor
I understand the 1937 constitution was an almost verbatim reworking of the Freestate constitution and was amended largely as a result of the royal abdication debacle. So in effect it was written in 1922 or whenever.

There are similarities, granted. Plenty of differences too. Have a butchers (constitution is listed in full under schedule 1 of the Act & followed by the treaty in schedule 2). The language provisions are almost identical though.

Gearoid

I understand the 1937 constitution was an almost verbatim reworking of the Freestate constitution and was amended largely as a result of the royal abdication debacle. So in effect it was written in 1922 or whenever.

Well it still stands that no matter when it was written it is still accepted by the people if they thought it was too old or that they disagreed with it's content they could have and still can do something about it.

So why did you use it as an example of a popular Irish language program. As you've admitted it's a travel program with an Irish title and some of it is in Irish. It's hardly the shining example of the Irish language becoming strong.

LOL, don't think you paid much attention there dave, it's the fact that the programme is being watched by a fairly wide audience that shows the language is losing the negative attitude towards it. If people were really negative towards the language they wouldn't watch it it's that simple - would you watch something you hated. Don't disagree just for the sake of disagreeing here.

What do you mean if it's not widely used. It's not widely used. Do you seriously think people will start speaking Irish because the EU recognises it?

Well this really isn't my question to answer but I'd like to throw in that the badge of being an official language WOULD do a lot for the language, help throw off the idea that it's some peasant pataois for bogmen which it clearly isn't. It would make a lot more people have respect for it for one thing.

Thank you, I do try
Of course you are just as talented....

Aye I'm talented but I speak only for myself unless asked otherwise.

sanvean

I would love to know how Catalan was left out of the official working languages. 10 million speakers and - in Catalonia - a nearly 100% of people speaking (and that's despite the settlers Franco sent in from the rest of Spain to 'stabilise' it, and the general anti-Catalan practices and acts) and yet it's left out. Very odd.

Then we have people up in arms because a language spoken by something well under 5% (em, not so good at maths, but something like that) of the population being left out.

Gearoid

The reason that there is fuss and rightly so is that all other member states have their official languages as EU official languages too, Irish is the first official language in the Republic of Ireland yet not an official language of the EU. Whether you agree it should be or not it, should be one if you think equality is important - our language shouldn't be the one left out, simple as that.

Sand

Its not *our* language. I dont speak it, and never have had to since the kulturkampf inspired secondary school system. Im no less Irish for it, no more than Australians are any less Australian because they speak English. Its not a matter of national pride - its status in the constitution is just a throwback. Making it an "official" language of the EU is just creating paperwork and bureacracy - I think the EU government has enough of that already without translating documents into obscure, dead languages for no one to read because English is far more accessible. Whether you agree with it or not, if you believe in common sense then youll agree that the costs associated are utterly wasteful and even immoral when there are kids dying in hospitals for want of better funding. What about the children?

Note: No one is stopping anyone from speaking the language. If you want to walk into Brussels and only converse in Irish you absolutely can. Fire away. Im am absolutely delighted for you and hope you and your friends go on speaking Irish for ever and ever. But please dont repeat the mistake of the education system. Forcing people to use a dead language doesnt mean the language is healthy.

simu

Im am absolutely delighted for you and hope you and your friends go on speaking Irish for ever and ever. But please dont repeat the mistake of the education system. Forcing people to use a dead language doesnt mean the language is healthy.

What's your definition of dead? You appear to contradict yourself above.