Getting Sky Digital installed without having a landline?

PWEI

Hi,I'm new to this board and need some adice please.
I rang Sky recnetly to avail of their €15 installation offer and they told me that I needed to have a landline for this offer.Since I've moved i've tried to avoid getting
a phone in house.Can anybody tell me are there any indepentent installers in the North County Dublin area who will install it without having a landline.Thanks.

SEAMUSD

theres no way sky will give you the box without a landline,this has only been the case in the last 12 months or so I think,when i got my digibox installed 2 years ago the engineer didint connect it to my landline and it was never queried by sky, BUT now they insist on it, no landline no digibox ,the only option you have is to buy a digibox, have somebody install it for you,you are probably looking at somewhere between €300 & €400, then phone sky for a card, all the installers who install the boxes for €15 are contracted to sky.

PWEI

A friend of mine has it and doesn't have a landline but he has it nearly two years now.As you said maybe it's only in the last 12 months.I would have thought they would be happy with any customer's regardless.When I cancelled my Chorus recently cause of a price rice they were desperate for me not to and offered it to me at a reduced rate.Anything to prevent me from not cancelling.
Does one need a landline also for Chorus digital?

SEAMUSD

sky used to offer a reduced rate a few years ago if you threatened to cancel, but they got wise to it very quickly, ive never heard of chorus digital, has anybody else ?????

sceptre

Originally posted by SEAMUSD
ive never heard of chorus digital, has anybody else ?????

It's been around for about two years. See the Cable/MMDS/Broadband forum.

SEAMUSD

Originally posted by sceptre
It's been around for about two years. See the Cable/MMDS/Broadband forum.

well knock me down with a feather

is chorus digital a city thing only ?
it's certainly not available in Arklow, hence the reason ive never heard of it I suppose.

Tony

If a retalier installs without a landline sky will not pay for the box or installation cost so the retailer would lose 315 euro. You could get a second hand box but it would probably be cheaper just to pay phone rental for a year and avail of the 15 euro offer

Tony

Originally posted by PWEI
Hi,I'm new to this board and need some adice please.
I rang Sky recnetly to avail of their €15 installation offer and they told me that I needed to have a landline for this offer.Since I've moved i've tried to avoid getting
a phone in house.Can anybody tell me are there any indepentent installers in the North County Dublin area who will install it without having a landline.Thanks.

sceptre

Originally posted by SEAMUSD
is chorus digital a city thing only ?
it's certainly not available in Arklow, hence the reason ive never heard of it I suppose.

It's offered over cable and MMDS. Knowing Chorus (I haven't been a Chorus customer for about 18 months so I usually don't care what they get up to any more) it probably isn't offered in anywhere near all of their local areas.

There's a blurb about it somewhere on the chorus site and a writeup about it on the ICDG (bit out of date but it has pictures).

BrianD

It's an interesting point about the landline. Many people are avoiding having both a landline and a mobile preferring to spend their money on their mobile. The mobile phone co.s are actively trying to persuade you to have one number only - theirs. Will sky loose out on this trend. Effectively the cost of their subscription increases by another €150 if you have to have a lnadline solely for a Digibox.

SEAMUSD

Originally posted by Tony
If a retalier installs without a landline sky will not pay for the box or installation cost so the retailer would lose 315 euro. You could get a second hand box but it would probably be cheaper just to pay phone rental for a year and avail of the 15 euro offer

Tony

now that does make sense, you would actually save money by getting a landline rather than buying a box

BrianD

You don't save money!!! You still have to shell out for an Eircom line rental for the duration of your contract!

This could be a major hassle for Sky as in the UK O2 have launched a service that allows you cheaper rates when you are in your home "cell" thus increasing mobile v landline competition. Vodafone make a big deal about the fact that you get no call minutes for your rental that you pay to Eircom but you get minutes bundled into any tarrif you pay on the Vodafone network. Obviously, the mobiles are eyeing up the home phone market.

The real reason that Sky Digital wants you to have a landline is that they want to yield a minimum £40 per annum from each subscriber on interactive revenues ... gambling, premium services etc etc,

PWEI

This is another reason why I didn't want to get a landline after I moved house.Instead i got a better contract with Vodafone.I pay €38 a month which might sound like a lot but I get 300 free off-peak minutes,30 free peak minutes and another 300 to one other person.With Eircom you get nothing and not only that if you hardly use your phone you'll still pay around 30 Euro a month on rental. My sister was telling me recently that she was going to cancel her landline cause she had only made about €5 worth of call's and her bill was still over €40.
At the end of the day it's going to be Sky's loss! I'm sure there's plenty or people in the same situation as me who want to get digital but don't have a landline in their house.Even though I didn't want to stay with Chorus I might have a look at their digital package now if they will install it without the landline.
Thanks for all the info!

jasgrif11

You can get it installed without a Landline NO PROBLEM... I got mine installed in August and just gave Sky my work number (they need to have a phone nmber in the contract).....However when the installer arrives he will install the box and you tell him eircom are arriving later in the week no problems. The only hitch you have is tha the box needs to dial out in order to initialise the card for your subscription (or else you'll just see FTA channels). The way around this is to bring your box to a friends house who has a landline plug it in to the phoneline and the box will initialise (takes about 3-4mins). You then bring the box back to the house and hey presto your done. I've had no interuptions and mine is installed since August 2003.

Tony

Originally posted by jasgrif11
You can get it installed without a Landline NO PROBLEM... I got mine installed in August and just gave Sky my work number (they need to have a phone nmber in the contract).....However when the installer arrives he will install the box and you tell him eircom are arriving later in the week no problems.

The installer will do no such thing! The installer/retailer will be down over €250 if he does this and the customer will be in breach of contract.

Tony

jasgrif11

Tony I'm not going to say who it was obviously but it was the installers suggestion when I rang to get sky and told him I had no phoneline. He said "no problem they're is away around it". For €20 I could of had the box initialised by him, but if I wanted to initialise it myself he said he'd tell me how to activate the port for dialling up once I connected the box to a telephone line (which he did). I'm sure he got his €250, if not I would of heard from him by now. Even friends of mine have used the same guy with same results.

Ednamillion

Sorry to (slightly) hijack the thread but after initialisation does the box need to be continually connected to the phone-line? Do Sky check on this? I currently have a length of cable running from the bedroom phone socket to the living room - and I'm considering fitting it permanently - through the attic and down into the box, but if, strictly speaking, I don't need the box connected to the phone I'll not bother....obviously.

Edna'....

jasgrif11

I've never had it connected and have had no problems from Sky

Tony

Well i'd be interested to hear from the retailer who maybe is not aware this is going on. I have a letter here from sky telling of dire comsequences. Maybe you could pm the thread starter with your installers details, notnthat I am recommending that anyone goes down this road.

Tony

Originally posted by jasgrif11
Tony I'm not going to say who it was obviously but it was the installers suggestion when I rang to get sky and told him I had no phoneline. He said "no problem they're is away around it". For €20 I could of had the box initialised by him, but if I wanted to initialise it myself he said he'd tell me how to activate the port for dialling up once I connected the box to a telephone line (which he did). I'm sure he got his €250, if not I would of heard from him by now. Even friends of mine have used the same guy with same results.

SEAMUSD

Originally posted by BrianD
You don't save money!!! You still have to shell out for an Eircom line rental for the duration of your contract!

I think you might be mistaken on this, I have totalled it up, € 183.08 line rental for 12 months, plus the €15 installation charge
total cost €198.08

Aquos76

Maybe I am mistaken but I am curious to know where you got your figures from. I no longer use Eircom as my chosen carrier of calls but I still have to pay them €45.00 (there abouts) every 2 months. Thats a total of 45*6= €270 plus the cost of gettting the phoneline in in the first place €129.00 providing there was never a phoneline in the house in the first place. €25.00 If its just a reconnection.

So 270 + 129 = €399
or
270 + 25 = €295

So all and all there is not a whole lot in the difference

SEAMUSD

Originally posted by Leonard
Maybe I am mistaken but I am curious to know where you got your figures from. I no longer use Eircom as my chosen carrier of calls but I still have to pay them €45.00 (there abouts) every 2 months. Thats a total of 45*6= €270 plus the cost of gettting the phoneline in in the first place €129.00 providing there was never a phoneline in the house in the first place. €25.00 If its just a reconnection.

So 270 + 129 = €399
or
270 + 25 = €295

So all and all there is not a whole lot in the difference

the figure I quoted was NOT correct.
I have in front of me an Eircom bill for 2 months line rental amount due is €44.98 (inc vat)
I dont use my Eircom for calls or internet I use UTV
€44.98 mutiplied by 6 = €269.88 + €15 installation charge
total €284.88 so I still think the guy would save money with this option rather than buying a box and then getting it installed, but I appreciate what you said, not a great deal of difference

Aquos76

I think you will find that you are still wrong. Are you including VAT and also where are you getting the €15.00 installation charge.

http://www.eircom.ie/cgi-bin/bvsm/bveircom/bladerunner/showContent.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0294170242.1071569994@@@@&BV_EngineID=eadcjdhielhdbedcfjgchgcghk.0&cid=FirstHomePhoneLineRes&site=Res&chanId=536888255

Aquos76

You noticed you error just as I posted.

Good recovery.

SEAMUSD

Originally posted by Leonard
I think you will find that you are still wrong. Are you including VAT and also where are you getting the €15.00 installation charge.

http://www.eircom.ie/cgi-bin/bvsm/bveircom/bladerunner/showContent.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0294170242.1071569994@@@@&BV_EngineID=eadcjdhielhdbedcfjgchgcghk.0&cid=FirstHomePhoneLineRes&site=Res&chanId=536888255

I think you should read my post again
vat and installation is included
that was a bloddy fast reply by the way
the installation charge of €15 is for sky not the land line
I dont know how much Eircom charge so i didnt include it,
so that has to be taken into account aswell.

BrianD

My point is that in addition to your Sky Digital subscription you need to pay a line rental for the duration of your contract. This effectively increases the real cost of your subscription to Sky by €22.50 (incl Irish VAT) per month or €270 per year. This excludes the once off cost of installation which can be as high as €129.

Fine if you already have a phone line installed but not so good if you don't and are planning to use your mobile.

My understanding is that SKy insist on the phone line so you can:

Order movies and premium events on the demand
Check the geographical location of your box through your Caller ID (i bet they ask for this to be enabled)
Milk a few more Euro out of you for interactive services.

I'm surprised that the Chorus/NTL boys haven't started using that one yet!

PWEI

I know I've warned people in the past to stay away from Chorus but their Digital package is becoming more and more appealing.They obviously don't have the selection of stations that SKY have but they do have about 60 and there's the added advantage of having UTV and C4.Their Chorus Basic + Sports Package is €49.99 a month and €47.99 when you go Direct Debit.Their Chorus Basic + Sports Package + Movie Package is €57.99 and €55.99 Direct Debit.BUT the most important factor is you DON'T have to have a landline so you'll save on line rental if you don't have a phone in the house.Not only that,when I rang them and told them I might be interested they offered to waver the €50 connection fee.So I'm seriously considering
getting it as an alternative to SKY especially cause SKY were so rude when I questioned why one needed a landline to get their Digital!!

Tony

Originally posted by BrianD
My point is that in addition to your Sky Digital subscription you need to pay a line rental for the duration of your contract.

My original point was that it may be cheaper to order a phone line for a year and avail of the €15 offer rather that pay full price for a box dish and installation, if you want sky you must pay a monthly subscription to sky in either scenario.

Full price box €239 Dish €69 non subsidy installation €120 = Total €428, not much difference I agree but a difference none the less.

Tony

JohnDigital

What about if your neighbours are freindly you could ask to run a cable from their phone to your house solely for Sky for a nominal monthly fee......

SEAMUSD

Originally posted by JohnDigital
What about if your neighbours are freindly you could ask to run a cable from their phone to your house solely for Sky for a nominal monthly fee......

I cant really see many neighbours doing this, would'nt you be tempted to put a splitter on the phone line and connect a phone and make calls at their expense ??

JohnDigital

Originally posted by SEAMUSD
I cant really see many neighbours doing this, would'nt you be tempted to put a splitter on the phone line and connect a phone and make calls at their expense ??

Well I guess if you think like that :ninja: then if you are my neighbour your not getting hold of a connection to my line

SEAMUSD

Originally posted by JohnDigital
Well I guess if you think like that :ninja: then if you are my neighbour your not getting hold of a connection to my line

no point in moving next door to you then

Mike 1972

I see a market for a device that connects between a $ky box and an old Speakeasy mobile as a substitute for a landline.

Only thing is the modem in the sky box would be limited to 9.6k data rate which mightnt be good enough ?

PWEI

I've been checking out the price of getting an Eircom landline.They're offering free connection now but rental is €22.50 a month which is €270 for the year.That's €270 before you ever make a call and no free call minutes.I just don't think it's worth it anymore, especially considering I've already given them 1000's in the past few years!

Tony

Originally posted by PWEI
I've been checking out the price of getting an Eircom landline.They're offering free connection now but rental is €22.50 a month which is €270 for the year.That's €270 before you ever make a call and no free call minutes.I just don't think it's worth it anymore, especially considering I've already given them 1000's in the past few years!

Its still cheaper than €428 (by a long way) for a non subscription box dish and installation.

Tony

rogue3

In relation to the original question, I got Sky Digital installed in April even though I didn't and still don't have a phone line. And all for I think it was a €30 special offer at the time. The engineer asked me to send him the Sky card and he activated it before he came round to install it. I assume the phone number he used is fake. When ever I ring Sky, for say a Premiership+ game, I have to quote the phone number, name, address etc. I was asked once if my phone line was plugged into the box and I just said it was plugged into my PC for the moment for internet access.
However, I was just talking to one of my work colleagues who informs me that installers are tightening up now as Sky are checking things much more now. Ring around though and after 12 months it doesn't matter if you have the line plugged in or not as the dish and box are yours.

BrianD

Tony, you are still missing the point! It's €270 plus price increases every year on top of your Sky Digital subscription i.e. Sky Sub + Eircom bill is the real cost of subscription for a year.

I am sure Sky are using installers for two reasons 0 to make sure the customer gets set up correctly and to insure that the all important phone line is connected. Looks like from the posts above they are not getting value for money on the second point.

One of the objectives that Sky Digital has set is to increase the revenue from Interactive Services This is higher margin business for them and your telephone line is crucial to the growth of interactive revenues.

Another stated objective to achieve ab average Stg£400 in revenue from each subscriber. This will mean a price increase in January '05

BTW do you need to have an active phone line in to your digibox to maintain your subscription even after the point when the box/dish becomes yours?

Tony

Brian you are missing the point. The original question was how to get sky digital without a landline, I'm simply pointing out the cheapest option unless you want to go down the second hand route. The amounts involved speak for themselves , perhap you are under the impression that the landline must remain after a year ( from BTW) it does not.

Obvioulsy if you get sky you pay the subscription no matter which way you go and for the life of me I dont know why you brought other matters into the discussion. I am simply trying to point out that getting a landline for a year is cheaper than buying an unsubsidised box, why are we talking about the merits of eircom , interactive services, sky revenues etc?

Brian dont get me wrong I enjoyed your discussion on the other thread which was unfortunately cut short but I have no desire to get involved in a discussion which has little relevance to to the thread title.

Originally posted by BrianD
Tony, you are still missing the point! It's €270 plus price increases every year on top of your Sky Digital subscription i.e. Sky Sub + Eircom bill is the real cost of subscription for a year.

I am sure Sky are using installers for two reasons 0 to make sure the customer gets set up correctly and to insure that the all important phone line is connected. Looks like from the posts above they are not getting value for money on the second point.

One of the objectives that Sky Digital has set is to increase the revenue from Interactive Services This is higher margin business for them and your telephone line is crucial to the growth of interactive revenues.

Another stated objective to achieve ab average Stg£400 in revenue from each subscriber. This will mean a price increase in January '05

BTW do you need to have an active phone line in to your digibox to maintain your subscription even after the point when the box/dish becomes yours?

BrianD

On, the contrary I don't think I have deviated the discussion. All of what I have stated is relevant to the discussion. It is also opening up a discussion about why Sky Digital are very insistent on a phone line being present.

Firstly, I am not a Sky Digital subscriber or installer.

I have pointed out that the cost of line rental should be added to your Sky sub to get the real cost of your subscription if you do not have an existing telephone line.

Yes, in year one the cost of the subsidised Digibox and line rental is cheaper than paying full price for the equipment.

I believe that in future Sky Digital will not accept or renew subscriptions without a working telephone line being plugged into the back of your digibox.

Why? Interactivity is a key part of the digital TV platform. As part of their strategy, Sky want two way communication between subscriber and broadcaster. This can only be achieved by a phone line being present.

Interactive revenues is a key part of Sky's development strategy and it is high margin business. Even if you decline to use betting services or enter premium rate promotions, Sky want you to be able to purchase on demand or impulse various subscription or once off events such as sports or movies. This is what Sky is selling to broadcasters who want to added to the Sky Digital platform.

I think it is important to look at the broader picture. Sky Digital are not just a one way broadcasting platform they are interactive digital TV. They want revenue from both providing multi-channel TV and interactive services promoted on the platform.

I believe if you fail to understand the importance of that copper wire going into the back of the digibox then you are missing the point of what Sky Digital is all about and this discussion is of utmost relevance to the thread title.

Tony

Originally posted by BrianD


Yes, in year one the cost of the subsidised Digibox and line rental is cheaper than paying full price for the equipment.

Great glad you agree:D

Tony

Originally posted by BrianD


I believe if you fail to understand the importance of that copper wire going into the back of the digibox then you are missing the point of what Sky Digital is all about and this discussion is of utmost relevance to the thread title.

Thats not what the thread starter asked, this belongs in a thread of its own surely.

Tony

BrianD

Getting Sky Digital installed without having a landline?

The above is the thread topic. I don't think I have gone off topic as the information that I have posted is relevant. Why do you need a land line? For most people it is simply money - the subsidy that is offered so you can get the kit installed for €15 as opposed to paying full price. But there is also another motive for Sky wanting the telephone line and thats the interactive revenues. Even if you bypass the registration process as described in other threads it may become increasingly difficult for you to maintain your subscription without a phone line. I don't mean to be rude but obviously the installers aren't really interested what happens after they've done the install and got their subsidy from Sky (Stg£200?). For the subscriber they are faced with a Sky sub and an Eircom line rental cost every year. This cost needs to be considered as a possible answer to the question of getting Sky Digital installed without having a landline might be - don't! Choose another platform instead.

Tony

Originally posted by BrianD
T I don't mean to be rude but obviously the installers aren't really interested what happens after they've done the install and got their subsidy from Sky (Stg£200?)

You are not being rude but it should be pointed out that the retailer does' nt get paid for some time after the install, so in fact there is a great deal of interest in what happens after the install.

Tony

SEAMUSD

Originally posted by Tony
Great glad you agree:D

yep and at the end of your first 12 months with sky you can cancel your Eircom line if you want

BrianD

Well, Seamas part of this discussion is to establish whether you can continue your subscription without the presence of a phone line. It would be against the sky strategy if you can have a sub without a phone line. Perhaps somebody can check the small print of a renewal contract and let us know.

Tony

It has always been the case that the phone line is only obligatory for 12 months. We do not need to establish this at all as sky cannot enforce this beyond the 12 month subsidy period.

Tony

Originally posted by BrianD
Well, Seamas part of this discussion is to establish whether you can continue your subscription without the presence of a phone line. It would be against the sky strategy if you can have a sub without a phone line. Perhaps somebody can check the small print of a renewal contract and let us know.

BrianD

Tony, thanks for establishing this as I am not a subscriber.

How often do they issue a new card and is a phone line required for this?

Tony

Originally posted by BrianD
Tony, thanks for establishing this as I am not a subscriber.

How often do they issue a new card and is a phone line required for this?

neither am I

Since sky digital launcehd they have only changed the card once and no phone line is required, card comes pre authorised.

Tony

SEAMUSD

Originally posted by BrianD
Tony, thanks for establishing this as I am not a subscriber.

How often do they issue a new card and is a phone line required for this?

NO ITS NOT, JEES

after the first 12 months you do NOT have to have your digibox connected to a phone line, in fact after the first 12 minutes you dont need a phone line. you just need it connected at the installation stage.

Aquos76

Originally posted by SEAMUSD
NO ITS NOT, JEES

after the first 12 months you do NOT have to have your digibox connected to a phone line, in fact after the first 12 minutes you dont need a phone line. you just need it connected at the installation stage.

Why do you have to continously repeat what other membere have said previously. It is very annoying to say the least. Tony mentioned this already in this post. Surely to god you are able to read.

DMC

Agreed, the noise to signal ratio is weak with this one.....

Tony

Originally posted by DMC
Agreed, the noise to signal ratio is weak with this one.....

Damo you crack me up:D