Steven Gerrard's 2 Footed tackles

kida · 07-12-2003 11:04am #1

How soon will it be before he destroys a players career.

Another 2 footed tackle on Saturday on Bernard(Can anoyne explain why it was not a penalty) - A 2 footed tackle is a foul regardless of winning the ball.

There was another, far worse in the Uefa second leg that was not commented on much as it was only viewable on channel 5.

If that was Viera or Keane - there would be public outrage and a call for a public hanging.

It seems that you are treated differently if you either an English international and don't play for Arsenal or Man United.(Other stories don't sell papers)

Big Ears · 07-12-2003 11:57am

He could have very easily ended bernsrds career.

mike65 · 07-12-2003 12:17pm

It was a bad 'un no question, I suspect one reason it
got little coverage was because it happened so fast, I nearly missed it when whatching The Premiership on N2
last night the ball was pinging round the Liverpool area
and commentry did'nt stop to ask questions....I dunno if SKY made much of it but Jimmy McGee certainly did'nt.

Mike.

The Muppet · 07-12-2003 4:28pm

I Haven,t seen the incident yet but he does have a tendency for the 2 footrd tackle and I too would fear that he will seriously injure someone if not curtailed.

If that was Viera or Keane - there would be public outrage and a call for a public hanging.

Very True, but neither of them are English Interntionals , They seem to be let away with a lot more by the FA than the foreign players.

kaimera · 07-12-2003 4:43pm

saw the game yday...spotted the tackle...called a peno.

very surprised that one wasn't given.

would have been deserved anyway, we were pure tripe in the second half yday

Nike_Dude · 07-12-2003 5:50pm

I was thinking that was Gerrard that made the tackle!!!!!!!!! It happened so fast and sky didnt make a big deal about it so I wasnt sure. I should have known really the two footed lunge has become his trademark! Its absolutly disgraceful, any player can make a mistake in the heat of the moment and make a silly dangerous tackle (Lucas Neill), but Gerrard is taking the p*ss. If he doesnt get slapped with a misconduct charge there is no justice in the world!

but neither of them are English Interntionals

Very true, remember shearers stamp on Lennon (I think) just before euro 96 that went unpunished. The FA seem to be a bit more lenient on english players after the recent episodes, I wouldnt be surprised if Rio got a slap on the wrist.
On a related point how did Poll not see it

it was right in front of him, he must have developed wenger-itis

LizardKing · 08-12-2003 10:18am

Bad tackle but not as bad as Ashley Coles ...

super_furry · 08-12-2003 10:24am

It wasn't as bad as Cole's because he (luckily) didn't make any contact. However it is a worrying aspect of his game and unless he cop's on and cut's it out, he is going to eventually do someone a serious injury.

Big Ears · 08-12-2003 10:43am

whats going to happen is someday he'll catch some1 on the knee their career ends while he will only get something like an 8 game ban . An 8 game ban probably wouldnt stop him doing those tackles.

jonno · 08-12-2003 12:26pm

How long did Keane get after that incident with the City player I can't remember?

I thought we had seen the back of Gerrard's loose tackles after he got the captaincy. He ought to cop on.

Anypoo it wasn't as bad as Cole's tackle.

Big Ears · 08-12-2003 1:30pm

thats only cause he missed

Villain · 08-12-2003 1:31pm

Well I think you'l find this matter was discussed after Lucas Neil's tackle against Carragher, when Houlier mouthed off about how bad it was.

A lot of pool fans were going mad about while at the same time Gerrard has been the same type of tackles for years. In the other thread I pointed out 2 tackles that Gerrard done when the Pool were playing Villa, he apologised to one of the players afterwards but if he could have broken his leg

bucks73 · 08-12-2003 2:15pm

How quiet is Houllier now?

He wouldnt shut up over Lucas Neils tackle. Kept going on and on for a week.

Poll bottled it because he knew he would have to give the penalty and send off gerrard. Theres no way he missed it.

LizardKing · 08-12-2003 2:42pm

FACT: Lucas Neil broke a players leg , gerrard did not

I'm not condoning gerrard but I think theres a lot of
people trying to scandalise a tackle which was bad
but by no means scandalous. Too many if's and maybe's

IF he had of seriously injured anyone then you have the
right to condone it and call for his banning but at the end of
the day no-one was hurt ...

Houllier I am sure will speak to him in confidence about this ....

uberwolf · 08-12-2003 2:45pm

I agree with LizardKing. Another thread is giving out about ashley cole. While its not allowed either way, getting the ball only is nowhere near mising the ball completely and merely leaving knee caps strewn about the pitch

Space Coyote · 08-12-2003 2:46pm

It was a disgraceful challenge by Stevie. Bernard was very lucky. He must have seen it coming and somehow managed to avoid serious injury. Someone, ie Phil Thompson, has to pull Gerrard aside and tell him to cut out with the two-footed lunges. He's too good a player to have to resort to Vinnie Jones-esque stuff. I missed Ashley Cole's one, heard it was pretty bad but at least he apologised after I spose. He's still a scumbag though.

kida · 08-12-2003 2:48pm

but at the end of the day no-one was hurt

It was through no action of Gerrards that no-one was hurt.

If it was his first time it might be excusable - but he has been doing this for a long time.

Space Coyote · 08-12-2003 2:55pm

You would think after his dreadful tackel against Naysmith in the derby last season that he'd have copped himself on, but obviously not. It's just a matter of time before he ends a lads career.

Third_Echelon · 08-12-2003 2:58pm

i think that something should be done about it... he is doing it way too often for it to be a once off occasion...

They have the video evidence, they should bring him up on disrepute charges...

a nice ban would surely sort him out... about a season i think sounds like enough...

Third_Echelon · 08-12-2003 2:59pm

Originally posted by Space Coyote
You would think after his dreadful tackel against Naysmith in the derby last season that he'd have copped himself on, but obviously not. It's just a matter of time before he ends a lads career.

that was a viscious one alright.. he nearly de-balled the poor chap it was that high...

bucks73 · 08-12-2003 3:01pm

Originally posted by LizardKing
FACT: Lucas Neil broke a players leg , gerrard did not

I'm not condoning gerrard but I think theres a lot of
people trying to scandalise a tackle which was bad
but by no means scandalous. Too many if's and maybe's

IF he had of seriously injured anyone then you have the
right to condone it and call for his banning but at the end of
the day no-one was hurt ...

Houllier I am sure will speak to him in confidence about this ....

Its not the result that was wrong. Its the act and intent in the tackle thats wrong.

Just becuase bernard didnt end up with a broken leg doesnt make the tackle any better. It wasnt as if Gerrard thought "I'll dive in two-footed, win the ball and not harm the other guy".

A two-footed, studs-showing, flying tackle is extremely dangerous and against the rules.

LizardKing · 08-12-2003 3:03pm

Yeah thats a great Idea , bring in video evidence from every tackle made and then judge them on severity and then ban the players ... Its not basketball , its a contact sport in which players can be over committed and appear ruthless and nasty . I do not think that this is the case with most challenges , no player goes out to end anothers career.

Do these people that agree with a gerrard ban think Roy Keane should have been similarly banned when he (actually did) end someones career .....

kida · 08-12-2003 3:22pm

Keane made contact with the other leg!! Why do you think he dropped the lawsuit?

Villain · 08-12-2003 3:28pm

LizardKing,

Keane was sent off so he was banned.

We'r not talking about one of Gerrards tackles we'r talking about a collection of over the top tackles which had the potenital to end a players career.

I don't know what part of that you don't understand.

Houllier shouldn't be throwing stones in a glass house

LizardKing · 08-12-2003 3:43pm

Keane was sent of so he was banned ... Gerrard was not sent off , he was not booked and he did not end someones career. I understand that people do not like players to go in with two feet or do high challenges , I understand gerrard would make these tackles more often than most, I understand the thinkin behind peoples views of "Ban him before he maims someone" but I do not think a ban of this type could be policed or would work without widespread ambiguity or favouritism. Especially towards England players .....

Do people think all 2 footed challenges should be straight red cards .. ???
I don't I think if a player commits to a tackle with 2 feet and gets the ball clean then it should be allowed , as with every tackle players can mis-judge or be late , it just looks nastier as the player is committed with 2 feet ....

Villain · 08-12-2003 4:11pm

The problem is if the ref saw it he should have sent him off for dangerous play, if he didn't see it then the FA should use video evidence and pursue him accordingly.

jonno · 08-12-2003 4:15pm

Well according to skysports.com the referee said he saw the incident and so the FA can't bring charges against Gerrard.

Here

kida · 08-12-2003 4:29pm

in that case - the referee should be relegated to the lower leagues - it was a blatant case of violent conduct = foul = penalty=red card = ban

Villain · 08-12-2003 4:36pm

Originally posted by jonno
Well according to skysports.com the referee said he saw the incident and so the FA can't bring charges against Gerrard.

Here

Thats why I said if he saw it he should have sent him off because once he says he saw it and didn't act the FA are powerless.

The ref bottled it, and as you said kida he shouldn't be allowed ref any premiership games for a while.

Big Ears · 08-12-2003 6:21pm

naysmith was on the ground and had won the ball with a sliding challenge instead of jumping over naysmith gerard jump two footed on to his knees. Just to remind people.

Big Ears · 08-12-2003 6:30pm

the fa would never put their favourite i refereid in the world cup bottler of bottlers Graham poll into the lower leagues they love him too much for causing some much controversy and publicism in the prem league.

Nike_Dude · 08-12-2003 9:31pm

the fa would never put their favourite i refereid in the world cup bottler of bottlers Graham poll into the lower leagues they love him too much for causing some much controversy and publicism in the prem league

Yeah the FA seem to have some sort of love affair with poll, he is one of the worst referees in the league, he makes mistakes time and time again but nothing is done about it.
Its a shame to see Gerrard going down this road, he is an excellent player who has a great future, but all anyone seems to talk about are his horror tackles. Either someone at liverpool needs to give him a good talking to or the FA should give him a big ban (6-10 games) the next time he does it. Just because he hasnt ended a career yet isnt any skill on his part its pure luck. The FA cant act now because Poll said he seen it but they seriously have their priorities wrong when they give out fines and bans for petty things and let these tackles go unpunished:rolleyes:

The Muppet · 08-12-2003 10:32pm

Do people think all 2 footed challenges should be straight red cards .. ???

I do think the 2 footed challenge should be banned, even if contact is made with the ball the potential for causing serious injury to either player is still there and the only way to ensure players dont get needlessly injured in this way is to ban two footed tackles completely.

SCULLY · 09-12-2003 10:00am

Originally posted by LizardKing
Do these people that agree with a gerrard ban think Roy Keane should have been similarly banned when he (actually did) end someones career .....

YES

Originally posted by LizardKing
Do people think all 2 footed challenges should be straight red cards .. ???

YES

LizardKing · 09-12-2003 10:37am

I think people are going way over the top with this ....
Football is a contact sport played by professionals and the fact that there are hard tackles and tough challenges makes it exciting ... outlaw these and it would have a negative effect on the excitement and pace of the game ......

For all those who want to outlaw the 2 footed tackle , watch netball :rolleyes:

SCULLY · 09-12-2003 10:49am

Originally posted by LizardKing
I think people are going way over the top with this ....
Football is a contact sport played by professionals and the fact that there are hard tackles and tough challenges makes it exciting ... outlaw these and it would have a negative effect on the excitement and pace of the game ......

So basically anything goes??

Originally posted by LizardKing

For all those who want to outlaw the 2 footed tackle , watch netball :rolleyes:

Oh errr!

LizardKing · 09-12-2003 11:04am

Originally posted by SCULLY
So basically anything goes??

No .. but you can have tough FAIR challenges , you can have 2 footed tackles that win the ball cleanly , you can have sliding tackles at speed where the ball is won. If we were to outlaw these it would have a detrimental effect on the game... Obvioiusly you disagree but thats your opinion as this is mine

Originally posted by SCULLY

Oh errr!

funny :rolleyes:

The Muppet · 09-12-2003 12:28pm

No .. but you can have tough FAIR challenges , you can have 2 footed tackles that win the ball cleanly ,

Even so behind every 2 footed tackle you hav the players full weight moving at speed , whatever it makes contact with stands a pretty good chance of damage.
I dont want to see the fair contact taken out of soccer , but i dont want to see any players needlessly seriously injured either .

bucks73 · 09-12-2003 12:35pm

Originally posted by LizardKing
No .. but you can have tough FAIR challenges , you can have 2 footed tackles that win the ball cleanly , you can have sliding tackles at speed where the ball is won. If we were to outlaw these it would have a detrimental effect on the game... Obvioiusly you disagree but thats your opinion as this is mine

funny :rolleyes:

I dont know if you play any kind of competitive football but in Junior football a two-footed challenge is almost the worst thing you can do on pitch.

I have seen plenty of arguments started on the pitch over a player diving in with both feet. As the majority of Junior footballers in this country are amateurs and have jobs and other responsabilities, the worst thing that can happen is a broken leg and miss work for weeks or months.

Whether the ball is won cleanly or not the rules state you can not jump into a challenge with two feet. You are saying to watch netball if you dont want two-footed challenges in the game. I am saying to you that if you jumped into a challenge on any junior football pitch in this country, not only would you be booked or sent off but most likely you would be decked by your opponent. Id like to see you on the end of one of these challenges and see how you like it.

You can be fair and tough but two-footed leaps are reckless and dangerous. And against the official rules of the game.

LizardKing · 09-12-2003 1:00pm

Heres the rule ...

Serious Foul Play
A player is guilty of serious foul play if he uses excessive force or brutality against an opponent when challenging for the ball when it is in play.
Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force and endangering the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.

This does not rule out 2 footed challenges which win the ball cleanly which I think is correct. Nobody wants to see injuries (especially in Junior football where there is less resources to fully recover). I just think that many people are going WAY over the top on this non-issue

Space Coyote · 09-12-2003 4:50pm

LizardKing, if it is a 'non-issue' then why have you posted SEVEN TIMES on the topic ???

LizardKing · 09-12-2003 4:56pm

just pointing out my opinions and answers to other posts
(some of which were directed at me)

I think I've made my point now and I'll post no more

... off to the ashley cole thread

Space Coyote · 09-12-2003 5:54pm

...now that's eight times

Villain · 09-12-2003 7:24pm

Originally posted by LizardKing

Serious Foul Play
endangering the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.

I just think that many people are going WAY over the top on this non-issue

And I think you backing Gerrard on these challenges is sad.

If you play soccer you will know any 2 footed lunges are "endangering the safety of an opponent" and " is guilty of serious foul play".

:rolleyes:

LizardKing · 11-12-2003 12:25pm

I never backed gerrard on "these tackles" as you say I simply pointed out my opinion on the tackle against solano and two-footed challenges in general ....

I play soccer and I don't know that 2 footed lunges are "endangering the safety of an opponent" and " is guilty of serious foul play", I've seen many two-footed challenges win the ball cleanly and fairly.......

Anyway here is what Houllier had to say on the matter

11 December 2003 : by Paul Eaton
Boss leaps to Gerrard's defence

Gerard Houllier has leapt to the defence of Steven Gerrard following criticism of his tackle on Nolberto Solano at Newcastle on Saturday.

Gerrard has been heavily criticised in the media for the tackle with some people even comparing it to the challenge which saw Arsenal's Ashley Cole sent off against Leicester at the weekend.

Houllier says the incident has been blown out of proportion and that it has only been highlighted because of the particular player involved.

"Stevie, because of who he is, is a bit like Patrick Vieira," said Houllier. "When anything happens with him, it's taken out of all proportion. Stevie has not had a single booking this season. That is 20 games. Nobody from Newcastle complained about the tackle and the referee saw it.

"I think people have talked about it because of what happened with Ashley Cole, but there is nothing to compare the two. There is a difference because Stevie had one foot on the ground when he made the tackle. He won the ball and didn't hurt anyone."

I agree with him , although I'm sure plenty will not .....
:rolleyes:

Space Coyote b4 you point it out thats 9 times sorry

jonno · 11-12-2003 12:38pm

I concur

Villain · 11-12-2003 1:10pm

Originally posted by LizardKing
I never backed gerrard on "these tackles" as you say I simply pointed out my opinion on the tackle against solano and two-footed challenges in general ....

I play soccer and I don't know that 2 footed lunges are "endangering the safety of an opponent" and " is guilty of serious foul play", I've seen many two-footed challenges win the ball cleanly and fairly.......

I've seen many two footed tackles win the ball too but I also have seen many that have resulted in players having to leave the field injured.

The law as you pointed out states "endangering the safety of an opponent", and by doing a two footed tackle you are endangering the safety of an opponent maybe not even intentionally but you are. It doesn't say that you dangerously hurt a player, so even a tackle that wins the ball is still "endangering the safety of an opponent" because that type of tackle is dangerous.

Steven Gerrard's 2 Footed tackles

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