Gamecube down and out ?

(someguy)

Is the gamecube on the downturn or something? - it seems to be gradually disappearing from shops and catalogues. The shelves for the GC are getting smaller and smaller. Not to mention the fact they halted gamecube production and rumours of develpers pulling out gamecube support.
kinda discourages you from buying one

Creamy Goodness

well according to cvg news a couple of days ago nintendo sales were up and so were ps2 here

tman

Originally posted by (someguy)
Not to mention the fact they halted gamecube production

fact?
afaik it's a fact that they recently restarted production
nonetheless, i'm pretty worried about my choice to get one for crimbo... ah well, it's ordered now:)

Seamusmc

au contraire.....it seems to be making a massive comeback

check here...1/2 million sold in 1 week in the states

http://cube.ign.com/articles/442/442633p1.html

flogen

well lets be honest here, what do you expect when it keeps slashing its price, it had a huge boost last time it did it and it worked again.

the problem is their only triple a titles are nintendo made, and recently ive heard some bad things about them (mario kart dd, viewtiful joe <was this nintendo?>, pn03 all got abit of a slating).
I aint played any of the above so i cant make my own opinion on them, but thats what ive picked up from reviews etc.

Flogen

tman

viewtiful and p.n. 03 are capcom games, the former is the canines danglies, the latter... pretty shoite from what i've heard...
mario kart got a bit of a slating for its single player mode. multiplayer is rather mint though.

oh yeah. play.com are on the last legs of a gc clearence sale, most of the real gems are sold out though... i got blood omen 2 for €14:)

sceptre

Originally posted by tman
mario kart got a bit of a slating for its single player mode.

Violet Berlin slated it for AI cheating. Solidly on the ball on that one.

(someguy)

the thing is, gamecube probably has better games then the xbox ( fpss on controllers suck halo fans ) but if it's on the road to being discontinued, i'd take the xbox over it because it looks quite promising for the future

Tusky

heh , the GC has enough great games to warrant you to buy it already ! even if no new ones come out , I really dont understand why it doesnt sell that well , people just seem to want to buy playstations , I mean playstations best games are out on PC ( gta 3 and VC ) , X-Boxs best are also out on pc ( Halo, KOTOR, Splinter Cell? ) where as all gamecubes exclusive games stay exclusive ,

anywho dont think its gonna die just yet

Jim

[dont dis veiwtiful joe on the board]

BlitzKrieg

Something been bothering me, does the fact that a console has good games or not affect sales cause, The dreamcast had alot of daM good games (Soul Calibur, Shenmue MSR to name a few) but it died quickly. I thought number of games and marketing made the console (hence ps2 success) Obviously good games is what we want but in general sales people will buy the ps2 cause it has more games on offer. And then we got all the licences (the fact EA refused to make any DC games killed the sports side of the dreamcast) I mean i know people are saying the GC have triple A games but does that really matter when it comes to average person buying games?




p.s How is the X-BOX surviving?

Tusky

Originally posted by flogen
well lets be honest here, what do you expect when it keeps slashing its price, it had a huge boost last time it did it and it worked again.

the problem is their only triple a titles are nintendo made, and recently ive heard some bad things about them (mario kart dd, viewtiful joe <was this nintendo?>, pn03 all got abit of a slating).
I aint played any of the above so i cant make my own opinion on them, but thats what ive picked up from reviews etc.

Flogen

eh, viewtiful joe got brilliant reviews , mostly 95% +

smiaras

This post has been deleted.

DiscoStu

Originally posted by BlitzKrieg
p.s How is the X-BOX surviving?

because microsoft are throwing a marketing budget the size of a small country's GDP at it. there are some good games on it now with kotor, project gotham 2 etc.


as for pn03 i cannot stand by while people say its crap. it not

its not a high brow plot driven epic like other games, its not a cerebral experience, its an old style shooter with a lick of next gen paint. it all about learning patterns and skill. its unforgiving and limited controls are half the battle and a vital part of the gameplay. its about reflexes, speed and knowing your limitations. moving forward is difficult due to fact you cannot shoot and move but try retreating and the controls are as fluid and responsive as you can imagine. get into postion, batter that A button as fast as you possibly can, the enemy then fires and you dodge you pretty little ass back under cover. lather, rinse, repeat. its a formulae that worked for 20 years and still does if you give it a chance. its a mixture of space invaders, operation wolf and cabal all mixed into a wonderful whole.

Ronaldo7

The gamecube cant die. I became a convert last week when i bought the Zelda collectors edition and Mario Kart double dash pack and star wars clone wars and 007 nightfire all for 150 euro. That was sooooooo handy. Such a slick ****ing game.

honru

Originally posted by Tusky
even if no new ones come out , I really dont understand why it doesnt sell that well , people just seem to want to buy playstations , I mean playstations best games are out on PC ( gta 3 and VC ) , X-Boxs best are also out on pc ( Halo, KOTOR, Splinter Cell? ) where as all gamecubes exclusive games stay exclusive ,

Thats a stupid generalisation. Think about it, no casual joe is going to buy/upgrade a PC to play the Grand Theft Auto series; PC games and videogames are completely different markets. Playstation is the cool, and there is a good few games other than GTA that would warrent a purchase (especially to the casual gamer). I want to play ICO, Grandia Xtreme, Magic Pengal etc. And Capcom is considering porting Viewtiful Joe to the PS2.

It is ingrained in the public's mind that Nintendo's Gamecube is a kids console, and purple isn't a cool colour to the consumer. As Gamecube shelves become smaller or ousted, the perception is of a dying console, which is annoying. It is on shaky ground, yes, but it will no doubt hold on until the N5. Nintendo just know they have work to do (exclusives, online play, mature titles, advertising, Western appeal etc.) for the N5. Here's hoping to a good 2004.

Microsoft have definetly made the right decisions over the last year (LIVE is excellent), and seem to be on the right track, something I wouldn't have said last year. While the Xbox's Christmas lineup this year was somewhat empty and underwhelming, next year will see a splattering of great new releases such as Ninja Gaiden, Doom III, Fable, Half Life 2, Dead or Alive Online, Grand Theft Auto: Double Pack, Prince of Persia: SOT aswell as Halo 2.

krattapopov

Something been bothering me, does the fact that a console has good games or not affect sales cause, The dreamcast had alot of daM good games (Soul Calibur, Shenmue MSR to name a few) but it died quickly. I thought number of games and marketing made the console (hence ps2 success) Obviously good games is what we want but in general sales people will buy the ps2 cause it has more games on offer. And then we got all the licences (the fact EA refused to make any DC games killed the sports side of the dreamcast) I mean i know people are saying the GC have triple A games but does that really matter when it comes to average person buying games?

i think you are dam right here.... its all about clever advertising in the big picture... sure there are a select bunch of gamers who know what they want and a typically what console they want.. (personally i have an xbox, gamecube and pc) and to be honest i do think these three are ahead of ps2.. however i dont think anyone of them stands out in the superiority stakes (as compared to one another).

monument

Originally posted by tman
afaik it's a fact that they recently restarted production

Yes.

Originally posted by BlitzKrieg
p.s How is the X-BOX surviving?

The Xbox is made by people who have lots of money, lots of money, lots to spare.


BTW - All three consoles have a few good exclusive games.

Tusky

Originally posted by f®eak s©enery


Thats a stupid generalisation. Think about it, no casual joe is going to buy/upgrade a PC to play the Grand Theft Auto series; PC games and videogames are completely different markets. Playstation is the cool, and there is a good few games other than GTA that would warrent a purchase (especially to the casual gamer). I want to play ICO, Grandia Xtreme, Magic Pengal etc. And Capcom is considering porting Viewtiful Joe to the PS2.

not gonna get caught up in another debate on this subject BUT i would say they are the same market , most people that have a PC have a console as well , the point i was making is that the big exclusive PS2 and X-box games dont stay exclusive.

You can get the Gamecube in black or Silver , not that the colour should matter

A-Trak

I followed the dreamcast to its untimely demise and cried bitter, bitter tears when it died.
Brilliant,brilliant games-Soul Caliber,Virtua fighter 2, amazing online games(Chu-Chu Rocket, Quake 3, and Phantasy Star online-which trough a 28k modem with no subsrciption fee. rocked)
But the Dreamcasts one and only major TV advertising campaign was a barber shaving heads.
The Cubes major advertising is baggage handlers.

You do the math.

quarryman

But the Dreamcasts one and only major TV advertising campaign was a barber shaving heads.
The Cubes major advertising is baggage handlers.

You do the math.

i agree. PS2 advertising is everywhere. Magazines, television, sport. It really is splashed on everything. The Xbox isn't far behind. Its got almost limitless financial backing and i would be suprised to see it succumb despite making a loss in sales. I have only ever seen the GC advertised properly in games stores. Maybe someone can correct me here but is it actually advertised on T.V?

smiaras

This post has been deleted.

Syth

is it actually advertised on T.V?

I've only seen one or two ads for GC titles.

ingrained in the public's mind that Nintendo's Gamecube is a kids console

True. But that shouldn't matter. People who choose their gaming based on how a console looks and not on how much fun it is to play are very stupid. You only get a games console to have fun. But that doesn't mean that Ninty shouldn't cop on. They would sell more units if they marketed it better. Same console, same games, just better advertising.

Another thing they really should do is multiplayer. F-Zero GX has 30 racers on one track. That'd be cool for multiplayer.

DiscoStu

Originally posted by Syth
People who choose their gaming based on how a console looks and not on how much fun it is to play are very stupid.

True, however they are the market. the people who buy one or two games a year are unfortunatly what drives sales. Thats why the ps2 is still selling bucketloads.

Gone are the days where gaming was the domain of the nerd with severe social retardation, its a mainstream cultural thing like pop music, films or starting fights on a friday night. when something reachs that kind of level the lowest common denominator is the key, hence the reason that most mainstream films and music are crap and EA games sell so well. unfortunatly joe public dosent like being challenged or scared. he likes safe and easily digestable entertainment not something to mull over or think about after its finished.
Nintendo games dont seem to fall into the pop culture bracket that sony so brilliantly carved out with the playstation over the last eight years, they are lablled as childrens toys. Does joe public really want to play pikmin after lots of beer and fighting on a friday night? no he wants his helping of smackdown: insert yearly tagline change here, fifa 200n and bad games that come from the bowels of the gaming equivalent of simon cowell, EA.

(i know smackdown is brought to us by the lovley folks at thq but it falls into that same yearly iteration formula that ea use to create its next blockbuster)

monument

Originally posted by quarryman
I have only ever seen the GC advertised properly in games stores. Maybe someone can correct me here but is it actually advertised on T.V?

Yes, on UK channels which we get here. They have limited PR & marketing in Europe -but when they do something they do it well.

smiaras

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i_am_dogboy

Originally posted by smiaras
Nintendo are always shoving some cartoon character down your gob (w/ exception of metroid).

I know i'm a big nintendo fan(as you may have guessed by the pink bobomb), but thats part of what i've always loved about nintendo-if they all of a sudden started releasing games that were simple to play, required no thinking and took themselves too seriously, they wouldn't be nintendo anymore and i know i wouldn't be buying their consoles or games anymore.

I'm not sure about this one, but isn't it a good thing that nintendo are still making games for nintendo fans? So what they dont make as much money as sony but at least we're enjoying ourselves.

deadduck

i'm a big cube fan, but unless nintendo get the advertising finger out in a big way, they're screwed. and to be honest, i think due to their complete lack of christmas advertising, the cube's already got 1 foot in the grave

Matt Simis

You could label the Cubes slipping (despite Ninty trying to convince everyone its still the second highest seller) as a result of its poor marketting, or you could face up to the fact that the games, arent good as you people make out. Its like you are playing them games in permanent nostalgia mode.

I have a Cube, Xbox and PC. The best game (by a long shot) I played on the Cube was Eternal Darkness. I have MP, MKDD, Star Fox, Zelda WW, Pikmin etc. Taking Zelda as an example (this applies to most all Nintendo games), its quite amusing, and looks fantastic, but I cant see myself playing it much, I cannot relate to the characters. Simply put, they annoy me... I would even go as far to say, I hate them. I said this once before, that I didnt think there was a market for games that are percieved as so childish. I then bought a Cube (and kept it stocked with plenty of games), and I still feel as tho Im trying to like it (as a side note, I think technically its very impressive).

I look forward to Killer7 and some of the other big Capcom games.. but thats about it. The problem with Nintendo is that they have lost their originality, they cling to their old 80-90s mascots and promote them the same way they did back then. Trouble is, most of us grew up in the meantime..



Matt

i_am_dogboy

Originally posted by Matt Simis
The problem with Nintendo is that they have lost their originality

what about pikmin? probably the most original game ive played

but nintendo should stick with their old mascots, each time a new zelda, mario etc..... game comes out they get a slating from people who dismiss them straight out because they are cartooney and childish looking but the fans of the games rejoice, if nintendo were to go with new games and characters they too would probably be percieved as childish, anyway what developers are being original out there these days? next to none(dont say a thing about gta3 because i experienced it all in syndicate over 10 years ago)

nintendo make great games, that are more than anything about enjoying the game, this even applies to metroid prime, isn't that a good thing, what would mario be like if they threw an epic love story into the next one eh?

you are right about eternal darkness being a great game though

ps-yes i play my games in permanent nostalgia mode

Tusky

Nintendos biggest sellers are their old mascots though , Mario and Mario Kart , Zelda and Metroid , F Zero GX and so on

I do think nin need to start to advertise to the older gamers as the younger gamers at the end of the day dont but as many games or know what games are even out there , also 10,11,12 year olds will most likely be playing the violent games more than the marios and the older people be playing the mario games etc

tman

Originally posted by DiscoStu
unfortunatly joe public dosent like being challenged or scared. he likes safe and easily digestable entertainment not something to mull over or think about after its finished.

off topic, but i finally finished soul reaver 2 on saturday:eek:
still thinking it over now...

shame that the gamecube is missing out on lok: defiance:(

smiaras

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Gangsta

The girl in Gamestop sed that Nintendo just dont bother with the irish market after a while as they think that Ireland is insignificant. I think it's true as sales are higher than ps2 at the mo and nearly as high as the gameboy advance

smiaras

This post has been deleted.

Deadwing

Seems like every month or two someone brings out the knives for ninty and the cube. People bang on about how Playstation are in lads mags, on tv, bus station, toilet paper in bars (okay so i made that up), and that microsoft have limitless funds to push the Gackbox. People also forget that Nintly have been a business since the 1800's..yes, thats right..the EIGHTEEN hundreds, making card games. See ninty dont just make games, they make crazes, like pokemon..worth BILLIONS of dollars..they have enough to keep themselves afloat for years to come, no matter how successful or otherwise the GC is. And as long as we keep getting gems like Metroid, Mario sunshine and Zelda..i could care less what anyone thinks of them, or what version of Smackdown:here comes the sequel that youre playing on ps2 or something. (and yes, i do own a ps2, and a gackbox, not just some raving fanboy here)

smiaras

This post has been deleted.

Deadwing

If im not mistaken, i seem to remember Microsoft losing something like 200 million last year, and also making a loss? And also that they lose something like $200 for every xbox sold, cause theyre selling them so cheap?

Every company makes a loss at some stage, its inevitable. What it isnt, is a death knell.

Matt Simis

That depends on :


A) How much cash reserves they have
What they are now doing and planning to do different so they dont repeat their failure.
C) How it impacts stock price. Nintendo are a publicly traded company since 1962, thats the date you should be counting their "success" (and for the most part it has been successful) from. If shareholders think they have no future, stock price plummets, company either becomes target for hostile takeover or file for bankruptcy and struggles on loans (from people with vested interests) for years to come.

So, yes, posting losses is a big deal for Nintendo or any company that isnt a behemoth like MS and Sony.



Matt

Deadwing

Originally posted by Matt Simis
So, yes, posting losses is a big deal for Nintendo or any company that isnt a behemoth like MS and Sony.



Matt

So Sony and MS are behemoths, but Nintendo, whove been in the games industry longer than sony and Ms combined, arent?

Bannor

This post is a bit disjointed - trying to address most of the points in the thread so please bear with me.

The X-BOX has only been kept on by Microsoft because of the success of Live! And if you watch the advertisning that's what Microsoft are selling because the games don't stand on their own.

Nintendo don't see Europe as a big priority and their marketing and release schedule reflects that. A friend of mine reviews console titles for a publication - he receives merchandise and copies of games for review for both the Sony and Microsoft consoles months in advance of their retail release. A couple of months ago he was asked to review some Nintendo titles for Christmas so he contacted Nintendo. They politely told him to f*ck off - if he wanted to review the Nintendo titles he would have to purchase them.

I have a PC, a PS2, a Cube and a GBA SP. These days Championship Manager is the only game I play on the PC. PES3 is the game played on the PS2 and almost everything else is on the Cube. The SP is only used on flights/train journeys.

Some of the Cube titles wipe the floor with what's available on the other consoles.
Eternal Darkness, Metroid Prime, Pikmin, Resident Evil, Star Wars : Roque Squadron series, Super Monkey Ball. Those games are reason enough to purchase a Gamecube. If there are comparable exclusive titles on the other consoles I haven't seen them.

The PS exclusive titles are a dying breed : Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, Pro Evolution/Winning Eleven, Medal of Honour have all been ported to other platforms. Tekken and Gran Turismo are the last remaining ones as far as I can recall.

There are few game genres where the Cube is found wanting (the most obvious one is a serious driving game) and there are some where it stands head and shoulders above the PS2 and X-BOX.

An underestimated factor in the sales of consoles is the fact that you can quite easily pirate titles for the X-BOX and PS2. The software pirates are only now making in roads into breaking the Cube.

Anyone who thinks that the Cube is going to die soon is kidding themselves - it out sold the PS2 in the North American market for the first time in the week of November 24th-30th (Thanksgiving week) which is more significant than the Christmas run up.

Retr0gamer

I have to agree with matt simis about Nintendo losing its originality. The only orignal games on the GC have been Pikmin, Metroid Prime (giving the fps genre a well deserved kick up the arse) and Animal Crosing. The rest of the games have been updates of existing formulas (albeit mostly very good ones) Look at how may ground breaking games on the SNES and N64. Theres a big difference.

TheSonOfBattles

Yea, and Nintendo haven't exactly bustin their brains when it comes to originality on the game boy advance either. Pretty much every game they've released for it is just an update of an old game with the word advance stuck on the end or something.

Matt Simis

Originally posted by Deadwing
So Sony and MS are behemoths, but Nintendo, whove been in the games industry longer than sony and Ms combined, arent?

I was referring to their financial worth and durability. Sony's stock for instance is USD33 Billion, MS are USD235 Billion. Nintendo arent exactly "mom and pop", but they also arent in the same league as their competitors.


Matt

Tusky

Originally posted by Retr0gamer
I have to agree with matt simis about Nintendo losing its originality. The only orignal games on the GC have been Pikmin, Metroid Prime (giving the fps genre a well deserved kick up the arse) and Animal Crosing. The rest of the games have been updates of existing formulas (albeit mostly very good ones) Look at how may ground breaking games on the SNES and N64. Theres a big difference.

what about Super monkey ball and viewtiful joe ? eternal darkness had some really original elements in the insanity metre , if you mean developed by nintendo then you cant really count mp

Retr0gamer

I meant developed by nintendo. Metroid Prime had a decent bit of input from Nintendo although Retro Studios did do most of the work.

monument

Originally posted by Bannor
The X-BOX has only been kept on by Microsoft because of the success of Live! .

Untrue, the Xbox is still alive because Microsoft want, and very much so can keep it alive. The success Live is only an helping factor.

Originally posted by Bannor
Nintendo don't see Europe as a big priority and their marketing and release schedule reflects that. A friend of mine reviews console titles for a publication - he receives merchandise and copies of games for review for both the Sony and Microsoft consoles months in advance of their retail release. A couple of months ago he was asked to review some Nintendo titles for Christmas so he contacted Nintendo. They politely told him to f*ck off - if he wanted to review the Nintendo titles he would have to purchase them.

I don't blame Nintendo Europe for this, but it would be nice if they could at least answer my emails about press releases - that reminds me - must ask them about such (- woops).

Originally posted by Bannor
The PS exclusive titles are a dying breed : Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, Pro Evolution/Winning Eleven, Medal of Honour have all been ported to other platforms. Tekken and Gran Turismo are the last remaining ones as far as I can recall.

SCE’s latest titles - Ghost Hunter*, Ratchet & Clank 2, Jak II, EyeToy Play & EyeToy Groove.

(*god help Sony for some of the marketing for Ghost Hunter)

Originally posted by Bannor
Anyone who thinks that the Cube is going to die soon is kidding themselves - it out sold the PS2 in the North American market for the first time in the week of November 24th-30th (Thanksgiving week) which is more significant than the Christmas run up.

Totally useless - unless they also sell more games to the above people.

Deadwing

Originally posted by monument

SCE’s latest titles - Ghost Hunter*, Ratchet & Clank 2, Jak II, EyeToy Play & EyeToy Groove.

Not exactly "Must have" titles, to be fair.

Lets face it, this is a topic that cant be resolved, basically because everyones got their own opinion, whether youre one of the masses of gamers that thinks "Yeah playstayshun two is rapa, coz its got dat deeeadly game where ya get to rob cars n all, bleedin rapa!!", or if youre the kind of gamer that appreciates Nintendos "quality over quantity" approach. Personally i think the only reason the xbox is still around is because it had Halo, and i dont think its got much of a dedicated fanbase the way Sony and Ninty do.

Each machine has its good and bad points

Ps2: getting old, hardware is beginning to creak, but strong back catalouge.

Cube:Less games than the other consoles, but a wealth of triple A games.

Xbox:Lack of quality games, but hey..ms can throw money at it till it succeeds!

At the moment the knives are out for Nintendo, because its not doing as well as its competitors, so people are always quick to dismiss it as a lost cause in such a case. Whether its recent upsurge in sales is enough to keep it afloat remains to be seen, but with games like resident evil 4, Metroid prime 2 and another Zelda on the way next year i dont think Cube owners are going to be slitting their wrists just yet.

monument

Originally posted by Deadwing
Not exactly "Must have" titles, to be fair.

Which ones have you played? Any way, I was talking about exclusive titles.

Originally posted by Deadwing
Lets face it, this is a topic that cant be resolved, basically because everyones got their own opinion, whether youre one of the masses of gamers that thinks "Yeah playstayshun two is rapa, coz its got dat deeeadly game where ya get to rob cars n all, bleedin rapa!!"

Personally, I'm the kind of gamer who tries not to give a hoot what console a game is on.

BlitzKrieg

Originally posted by TheSonOfBattles
Yea, and Nintendo haven't exactly bustin their brains when it comes to originality on the game boy advance either. Pretty much every game they've released for it is just an update of an old game with the word advance stuck on the end or something.

but that what alot of the games on N64 were old games done up and 64 on their end (though the games were great the 64 tag did piss me off)

Nintendo havnt been the most original company around in a looooooong time.

Mr E

I guarantee that their next gen Gameboy (whenever it comes out) will be rehashing N64 games *....

- Dave.

* Not necessarily a bad thing.