Bicycle Lanes

Big al

This has to be a pet hate of mine,

I hate it when cyclists insist on cycling on the road when there is a perfectly good bike line side them. I just can understand why they dont use them it is for their safety. Do you think that cyclists should be fined if caught on the road when there is a cycle lane they are not using.

I do understand that they may have to cycle on the road to get to the other side, I have no problem with that.

What do others think?

Doctor J

I can understand why. They're usually full of glass, stones, crap etc thrown off the road by cars, stuff you wouldn't drive on yourself.

Also, where the cycle lane is intersected by a road to the left, I've observed incredibly frequent incidents of the car drivers not bothering to check if there's a cyclist coming (who has the right of way) and cutting across the cyclist. Some cyclists take to the road to be seen and to protect themselves, which is kind of understandable.

Imposter

If we're talking about cycle lanes in Dublin they are generally populated with pedestrians and parked cars. Not very good for cycling on. There are also some cycle 'lanes' which are about 100m long in total. The only relatively decent one i've ever seen is out around UCD and i've never seen a cyclist on the road there.

an_taoiseach

Cycle lanes seem to appear and disappear 'just like that'. I'm sure a lot of cyclists wish they could do the same trick. Many lanes exist as a council token rather than I safe place for a cyclist.

So I can understand why some of them are not used............

BTW What does anyone think about bus lanes in the middle of the road rather than on the inside?. Strikes me it might be a good idea. Will be interesting to see how this goes in Galway


An T

jim_bob

Originally posted by an_taoiseach


BTW What does anyone think about bus lanes in the middle of the road rather than on the inside?. Strikes me it might be a good idea. Will be interesting to see how this goes in Galway


An T

They do this in germany but no one bothered to tell me nearly got killed b/c of it although it did seem to run very well over there. although all public transport there runs well

rob1891

my related pet hate is when mopeds and bikers (mostly mopeds) decided they can use the cycle lane to cut traffic.

another problem with cycle lanes is peoples driveways!! bump-bump-bump. Or "road" works that never get finished, big lumps of steel covering a hole left there for months, or fudged filling of holes after the covering is removed, bad enough to make you wish they'd left the slippery steel.

If it's pedaling up a hill you can ignore a lot of the problems with a cycle lane but if you are going at a good pace then it becomes dangerous to follow the lane with all its in consistancies memorised and check for a car that might be turning left or pedestrians/poeple waiting at bus stops etc etc.

Where ever the cycle lanes are made part of the bus lane (or part of the road) they are always quite useable. There's the odd the Aircoach that likes to cut you up and mini bus drivers seem to be fairly ignorant, but your safe otherwise and the chances are the surface is good with proper yeilding rights etc. The lanes that are part of the pavement are a joke and I wouldn't go around expecting people to use them.

Victor

A cyclist to use a cycle path where it is provided, even when the cyclist is turning right. Dublin Cycling Campaign is working to change this to "when it is safe to do so".

All too often those cycle lanes are undersized, dangerous, full of glass, gravel, leaves, incomplete roadworks and parked cars. All to often in Dublin car parkers use the cycle lane as an extra piece of footpath to park on. That or drivers use them to pull part way into the road (beyond the stop line), when it isn't safe to do so and forcing cyclists into an avoiding manoeuvre in front of traffic.

Cyclists would love to cycle on proper cycle lanes.

http://www.geocities.com/cyclopath2001/index.htm
http://www.connect.ie/dcc/cycletracks/index.html

an_taoiseach

"All too often those cycle lanes are undersized, dangerous, full of glass, gravel, leaves, incomplete roadworks and parked cars"

And they are the good ones.:(

There is a wonderful cycle lane marked out at the Malahide Road junction at Fairview ( Perhaps the busiest junction on the Northside of Dublin ? :eek: ). Seems the intention was for 2 wheels and 4 wheels to zig zag and that 2 wheels ends up in the middle lane . Only the brave and foolish would try it.

[ Tip : Best avoided and go through the park instead ]


An T

Merrion

Even worse are the cycle lanes that are completely flooded because the annual rains have caught Dublin corporation by suprise again and they didn't clear the drains...

tunney

Most of the cycle lanes on my route Terenure->Santry are dangerous plain and simple. They are there when I don't need protection from unobservant motorists and disappear JUST as I need them. I've no intention of endangering my life by following these dangerous cycle lanes and as such stay on the road for the majority of my journet and if it pisses motorists off tough. I don't want to die

Secondly the condition of these lanes is terrible and like it has already been said they are shared with other people - like people walking their dogs etc etc. One sunday a few weeks back I was out for my usual sunday cycle, I'm cycling along the buslane on the N11 back into town, ignoring the cyclelane as its bumpy, not straight and filled with people out walking and enjoying the weather as they are entitled to. Some idiot of a woman decides to drive in the buslane and when she sees me she roars at me and points to the cyclelane saying that I should be using it so she could use the buslane. I was flabergasted at her stupidity as I was doing 36mph and would have killed someone on the cyclelane in seconds. Anyway I was going faster than alot of the cars

I just can understand why they dont use them it is for their safety.

Before you say things like this, borrow a bike and try the cycle lanes, they are NOT safe.

Doodee

my related pet hate is when mopeds and bikers (mostly mopeds) decided they can use the cycle lane to cut traffic.

I often find that cyclists cause huge problems when cycling on the roads.
Alot will dart infront of cars at lights and cause problems for other traffic turning either way at a junction. Also, when they are on the road they dont sappear to have to follow the rules of the road. Such as stated above.

IMHO some cyclists are greedy adn want to use the ropads but also to have the rights of pedestrians.

my 2$c anyways

Victor

Originally posted by tunney
Secondly the condition of these lanes is terrible and like it has already been said they are shared with other people - like people walking their dogs etc etc. One sunday a few weeks back I was out for my usual sunday cycle, I'm cycling along the buslane on the N11 back into town, ignoring the cyclelane as its bumpy, not straight and filled with people out walking and enjoying the weather as they are entitled to. Some idiot of a woman decides to drive in the buslane and when she sees me she roars at me and points to the cyclelane saying that I should be using it so she could use the buslane. I was flabergasted at her stupidity as I was doing 36mph and would have killed someone on the cyclelane in seconds. Anyway I was going faster than alot of the cars

Well technically she was right if the bus lane is only six day and you were wrong - of course she shouldn't have been doing 36mph.... (presuming it was a 30 section).

Capt'n Midnight

Cycle lanes ?

On the main road a cyclist has right of way over motorists on side roads, whereas they have to yeild to the same motorists if on a cycle lane. 80% of accidents involving cyclists are at junctions and in most cases it was not the cyclist at fault.

tunney

she was right if the bus lane is only six day and you were wrong

So cyclists can't use bus lanes?

Big al

Lots of valid points there, where I live there is a great cycle line system, that is away from the path and the road, it isnt affected by parked cars and it appears in good nick but I understand what you saying, it aint the same everywhere

Capt'n Midnight

Originally posted by tunney
So cyclists can't use bus lanes?

Funnily enough you might be right in the case of contra flow bus lanes ...

Victor

Originally posted by tunney
So cyclists can't use bus lanes?

They are meant to use a cycle lane where provided, even if it's dangerous, which is ludicrous.

Originally posted by Capt'n Midnight
Funnily enough you might be right in the case of contra flow bus lanes ...

Not sure, certainly taxis can't use contraflow lanes.

an_taoiseach

"Not sure, certainly taxis can't use contraflow lanes."

Oh, Thats interesting

So Taxis shouldnt be going up the contraflow bus lane on Lower Leeson St then ?

What enforcement provisions exist ? Report the taxi plate ? to ? DCC ? taxi regulator ? ( Does the carriage <spelling?> Office still exist ? )

( FWIW I think there is a cycle lane included with the c/f b/l so cyclists should be OK there )


An T

Victor

Carriage Office, Dublin Castle - the taxi regulator régime is still being set up, they have an interim regulator and a board but little else.

sceptre

Originally posted by Victor
Not sure, certainly taxis can't use contraflow lanes.

Aye, neither can bikes.

shabbyroad

Cycle lanes - this is an interesting one. I've been following this thread for a while and decided to look at the state of the cycle lanes along the various regular journeys I make.
Although I have to admit that I saw cycle lanes being obstructed in some places I have to say that I didn't see any that I would say are in 'dangerous' condition.

Examples :
On my commute I drive along a very long stretch of first class cycle lane (the Coyngham Road/Chapelizod Road along the Phoenix Park in Dublin between Chapelizod and Kilmainham). The entire stretch of road requires that cyclists use the lanes.
Nothing parked on the lanes, nothing obstructing.
Yet every day without exception I have to avoid unlit cyclists on the road where they have no business being.

The cycle lanes along the Spawell between Tallaght & Templeogue were looking fine to me last week.... so fine that 5 cyclists were on the main road (getting soaked by every car that drove along... clearly not the sharpest tools...).

On the Upper Kilmacud Road there are cycle lanes. Unused - especially by students in the local 2ndary schools. Though I did see a Garda stop a cyclist one day who careered through a pedestrian crossing. In fairness though this road is bad for obstructions (cars parked) - so why don't cyclists note the registrations and complain to the Gardai ?

There are cycle lanes running for a 2 mile stretch along the main road outside the estate where I live. From my living room I can see whether they're being used. The only cyclists I've seen use them have been our local cycle-gardai.

I'm not sure that I buy this 'all cycle lanes are unsafe' story at all.
If a cycle lane is dangerous - call the council and ask to speak to the chief engineer in the roads department. The council is responsible : call them. It's their job to fix it.... it's your job to call them... repeatedly if it matters that much to you. I've done this for a road that was damaging cars and..... dangerous for cyclists... it was fixed within 72 hours.

If the cycle lane is obstructed - call the gardai - they're responsible for policing this. Any tosser who parks on/in a cycle lane deserves every fine coming his/her way.

Has anyone seen the worst excuse for a cycle lane in Rathfarnham ? It's on the road between the Yellow House pub and the 'Tuning Fork' pub.
The council, in their infinite wisdom, put cycle lanes either side of a road. The problem is that for a large section of this road there is only 4 feet of road driving space either side of the unbroken white line. So not only is there hardly room for cars but they can't overtake even if they wanted to. Of course it's completely ignored and makes a mockery of the whole point behind cycle lanes.

The only problems I've had with cyclists are when they 'overtake' and move immediately in front of you without warning (signals ? wtf are they ?); cyclists with a deathwish (no lights, all dark clothing, not using provided lanes); cyclists who don't know what traffic lights are for (try the junction at the Bleeding Horse any morning and see how many near misses there are with cyclists going through red lights at speed).

I swear I'm going to cr@p myself the next baby-buggy that is pushed out in front of me. I might be doing 'only' 30mph but it's more than enough to kill.

All that aside... the only other road users likely to kill me are motorists.... just wish cyclists had as much concern for their safety as they should. If I drove with the same lack of care and attention for my own and others safety as many of the cyclists I encounter I would have lost my license years ago. Using the roads is a privilege and not a right - and that applies to pedestrians & cyclists as well as motorists.

Here endth my rant :ninja:
I'll get me coat.

Victor

Originally posted by shabbyroad
Although I have to admit that I saw cycle lanes being obstructed in some places I have to say that I didn't see any that I would say are in 'dangerous' condition.

There are quite a few and it is more often where the cycle lane ends arbitarily (e.g. at most junctions and the North Quays at IFSC) than the actual stretches themselves.

Originally posted by shabbyroad
Yet every day without exception I have to avoid unlit cyclists on the road where they have no business being.

Whatever about the unlit bit the "no business" sounds harsh.

Originally posted by shabbyroad
so why don't cyclists note the registrations and complain to the Gardai ?

Because they know the cops won't do anything, unless it's a bike / motorbike cop close by.

Originally posted by shabbyroad
I'm not sure that I buy this 'all cycle lanes are unsafe' story at all.

Not all, but some specific major stretches (e.g. parts of the Stillorgan Road where pedestrians use the cycle path and the is a 9 inch drop of the kerb onto the road) and a large number of specific points elsewhere (poles in the middle of the path, path less than the width of a person, parked vehicles, etc.)

Originally posted by shabbyroad
I swear I'm going to cr@p myself the next baby-buggy that is pushed out in front of me. I might be doing 'only' 30mph but it's more than enough to kill.

Ah, sure the mother won't be killed :rolleyes:

shabbyroad

There are quite a few and it is more often where the cycle lane ends arbitarily (e.g. at most junctions and the North Quays at IFSC) than the actual stretches themselves.

Yup - it's not possible to generalise. Cycle lanes are by no means perfect but I don't believe the situation is nearly as bad as some would have us believe.


Whatever about the unlit bit the "no business" sounds harsh.
Not really. Where cycle lanes are provided then cyclists are obliged to use them - there's no choice. Just like cars have no business being in bus lanes, or parked on cycle lanes. My point is that I would hazard a guess that most cyclists don't even realise they are obliged to use the cycle lanes when provided and are not supposed to be on the road.

Ah, sure the mother won't be killed :rolleyes:
No... but her massive skanger ear-rings might get caught on my wing-mirror.

steering wildly off topic :ninja:

Calibos

In Bray, barring a few stretches of real cycle lane, the majority of the so-called lanes are a red strip that the council painted at the sides of the road. On most roads in Bray the distance between the cycle lane and the middle white line is less than the width of an average car. So cyclists are cycling on the part of the road that they always cycled on. So its not like I can say that I never see cyclists in Bray using the cycle lanes provided. :D What I can say though is that I have seen several cyclists who obviously think the lanes are bi-directional cycling along one against the flow of traffic, something that you would never see if there were no cycle lanes at all. :D Well Done Bray district Council!! :rolleyes: and well done you ****ing morons cycling along them the wrong way! :rolleyes:

Silent Bob

Originally posted by Victor
All to often in Dublin car parkers use the cycle lane as an extra piece of footpath to park on.

And don't forget the brilliantly designed cyclepath through Ranelagh which actually has car parking spaces marked on it. Honestly, how can anybody seriously be expected to cycle on it

Victor

Originally posted by Silent Bob
And don't forget the brilliantly designed cyclepath through Ranelagh which actually has car parking spaces marked on it. Honestly, how can anybody seriously be expected to cycle on it

It's a cycle lane part of the day, pay & display / loading other times. Yes, less than ideal. The worst offenders are actually the driving school and people who park opposite the Bank of Ireland on the bend

tunney

ycle lanes are by no means perfect but I don't believe the situation is nearly as bad as some would have us believe.

Shabbyroad, don't get us wrong there are some very fine cyclelanes, but by and large these decent cycle lanes are where they are not needed. Our problem is that where a cycle lane is ACTUALLY needed, they stop leaving cyclists with no protection so why bother using them at all?

a_ominous

Shabbyroad, I know that stretch of road from Islandbridge to Chapelizod very well. And what passes for a "cycle lane". Apart from the glass that is scattered in so many places along that road the actual surface is poor. There is a kerb at start of the lane that is about 1 to 2 inches high. In order to get onto the cycle lane while cycling I had to swing out a bit and lift the front wheel. A smooth transition is needed.
This cycle lane is also designed to facilitate car access to the various boat clubs. Trying to maintain any reasonable speed is quite literally a pain in the @$$ with all the ups and downs at the boat clubs. Why can't the cars use a bit more power to climb the kerb??
For these reasons I used the road. On the other hand the other side is better with less glass and no access to clubs. Although you do get some peds who insist on walking in the cycle lane. (There's always some group we can target; but we're all peds at some stage ) I did stop going through Chapelizon while the building works were going on as there was gravel everywhere and the guard on point duty slowed things down too much.

seamus

Originally posted by a_ominous
I did stop going through Chapelizon while the building works were going on as there was gravel everywhere and the guard on point duty slowed things down too much.

Because you actually had to stop at the lights?

Seriously, once again the problem here is enforcement. If there was a risk that cyclists not using the cycle lane were caught, that peds walking in the lanes were caught, that drivers parking in the lanes etc etc...were all caught, it would work much better.
If the system worked, ie if cyclists (and everyone else) obeyed the normal rules of stopping at lights, giving way, etc etc, then lane or no lane, we'd all be much happier

uberwolf

Originally posted by shabbyroad


The cycle lanes along the Spawell between Tallaght & Templeogue were looking fine to me last week.... so fine that 5 cyclists were on the main road (getting soaked by every car that drove along... clearly not the sharpest tools...).

I use this strech of raod frequently enough, so I'll tell you why I use the road.

To access the cyclelane from the tallaght side you have to mount the pavement, cross into an alley and move onto the cycle lane- none of this is marked and certainly not user friendly. Then presuming you've made it this far when you go down past the spawell if you missed the hidden and unmarked entrance you can't get on to the cycle lane. But if you did you 'd risk life and limb negotiaing the roundabout because you lose the right of way you'd have on the road.
From there to the Templeougue bridge you merge with the path twice and lose ur right of way with one laneway, which is hidden so you've to stop to be safe.

From there to templeogue you merge with the path twice, (once around a blind corner), and every driveway means a dip, which at speed can be borderline nauseating and certainly is uncomfortable. and unsafe.

So this cycle lane is slower and less safe than the road - and thats why I don't use it.
E

tunney

If the system worked, ie if cyclists (and everyone else) obeyed the normal rules....... we'd all be much happier

How about if the lazy wasters you drive <6 miles to work got off their fat *rses and walked/cycled to work we'd have less traffic, less fat b*stards, less of a strain on health care system and then we'd all be even more happier.

Silent Bob

Originally posted by tunney
How about if the lazy wasters you drive <6 miles to work got off their fat *rses and walked/cycled to work we'd have less traffic, less fat b*stards, less of a strain on health care system and then we'd all be even more happier.

There's a lot of anger in that post. Is that to somehow deflect that you might not obey the rules of the road when cycling, perhaps?

seamus

Originally posted by tunney
How about if the lazy wasters you drive <6 miles to work got off their fat *rses and walked/cycled to work we'd have less traffic, less fat b*stards, less of a strain on health care system and then we'd all be even more happier.

Agreed. Traffic this morning was a dream. Conclusion? Stop driving your kids to school and make them walk or cycle(but educate them on the rules of the road). They'll thank you when they're older...

a_ominous

Originally posted by seamus
Because you actually had to stop at the lights?

Ahh now seamus, I thought you were a like-minded two-wheeler ? shame-on-you I did actually heed the lights _there_ where the guard was (Mullingar House). I did have a tendency to slip through a T junction where I didn't cross traffic when there were no peds crossing at the lights. Couldn't be seen to knock down a ped when they had the right of way, loike.

The guard had a real bad habit of stopping buses as they approached him after letting loads of passengers board 20 yards away. Just to let out the big mercs and beemers coming from Castleknock. I don't think he really understood the concept of traffic flow. And he was an old cop.

ednwireland

hey guys i used to live in nottingham and if you want to see real cycle lanes i used to cycle from one side of the city to the other along major roads on completly seperate cycle lane system it was fantastic haven't seen anything close outside of obvious european they were also fully signposted with directions to all the suburbs and main places such as hospital universities etc, and bike racks everywhere and guess what loads of people used them. car drivers should stop complaining about cyclists trying to survive on dublin roads. they also had bike triggered pelican crossings with barriers close enough so you don't have to unclip and a great road surface (luckily i now live in donegal and the traffic volume is pretty low except they can't

check this map out all routes interconnect and try where possible to keep traffic apart i always amazed at the incompetence of planners in ireland to take best practice from elswhere and use it

www.itsnottingham.info/cycle.pdf

uberwolf

holer flurking schnitt that looks comprehensive. painting a bit of the road that contains on the manholes red does not constitute a cycle lane

cyclopath2001

One reason many cyclists do not know that cycle lane use is obligatory is because the laws making it compulsory were passed without debate and without any consultation.

Even the seasoned campaigners were caught by surprise when the laws were passed.

Unfairly, there are no laws requiring the authorities to conform to standards of useability when they design or construct them & when requirements for legally defined markings and signs are ignored by the local athorities, there is no penalty.

So, the authorities pretend to build a 'strategic cycling network' and cyclists pretend to use them.

C.

Victor

Originally posted by cyclopath2001
One reason many cyclists do not know that cycle lane use is obligatory is because the laws making it compulsory were passed without debate and without any consultation.

It's also not in the Rules of the Road, because the RotR haven't been revised in 10 years.