Punto Overheating

Chaz

1997 Punto S - 1.1
Just bought the car from mate at work. He just had it in at a garage - they replaced the thermostat - and the fan switch.

Wife rings me first day using the car saying its overheated.

Now - Ive looked at the car over the weekend. Fan comes on - Thermostat seems to be working. I took off pipes - cleared things out. Replaced the Anti Freeze. Noticed the heater doesnt work - pipes in that area stay cold.

It also only took 1.5 litres - managed to get a bit more in - but seems its airlocked. Now ive read on other forums - seems it could be the head gasket. Its either that or waterpump - anyone know how much for new head gasket - waht about someone in Cork that can machine the head? I will do the work myself. There is supposedly a way to blled the system - for an airlock - but i still reckon its the headgasket. Can anyone shed any light to be sure before I rip the head off?

pedro ferio-vti

what coolant did you replace the original with? If you didnt use paraflu and used the usual ethylene glycol mix then your head gasket gets eaten away causing overheating. The head gaskets are a well known problem on puntos so it may be that.

Peter

seamus

*cough*

I used to have a 97 punto S 1.1 that used to overheat....would be a very small world if you're it's current owner

It happened twice. First time was the head gasket needed replacing, second time twas the thermostat.

But I drove the sh*t out of it, so it's no wonder. It's not a cheap job, but it's not expensive either by any means.

Chaz

i can do the work myself. What will gasket cost - and waht about skim?
Where can i buy this paraflu stuff in Cork ? Any ideas of how much it takes?

pedro ferio-vti

only fiat garages sell paraflu afaik, definitely skim the head if/when you take it off or you'll be ripping the head off again in a months time when the car overheats again......

BrianD3

what coolant did you replace the original with? If you didnt use paraflu and used the usual ethylene glycol mix then your head gasket gets eaten away causing overheating

If he used the wrong coolant it would take ages for the gasket to blow through corrosion, and he said he just got the car. Plus I doubt that this "paraflu" stuff is really necessary - any decent quality coolant has corrosion inhibitors in it and will protect the gasket.

The way I see it, you could have more than one problem here. The thermostat and fan switch were changed by the garage, presumably they wouldn't have done this unless there was already an overheating problem. But by changing the thermostat and not bleeding the system correctly they may have introduced an airlock into the system. Or you yourself may have introduced one when you drained and refilled the system after it overheated for your wife. The cold heater hoses are a sign of an airlock.

So first thing you need to do is get rid of the air. Not sure how this works on puntos but on most cars there is a bleed screw somewhere - maybe on the rad itself or on the top rad hose. Basically you open the bleed screw(s) and then pour in coolant into the expansion tank until there is a steady flow of coolant out of the bleed point. This is how it works in theory but in practice it can be a bitch to bleed a system. Some cars don't even have bleed screws. I believe in these cases when filling the system you have to do it in a certain way to avoid an airlock. Not sure how this is done though, sorry.

Don't whip off the head just yet. At the very least you'll need to get a pressure test done before you can decide that the HG is the problem. Investigate the airlock problem first - maybe bring it to a decent garage and let them have a look. Also, ask your mate about the history of the car - why was the thermstat replaced etc.

BrianD3

Chaz

Thx guys. Seems on another forum guys also inclinded to think its the airlock. It seems as if original fault might have been fautly thermostat as the car would not move hot water through the radiator.

Lets see.

pedro ferio-vti

Originally posted by BrianD3
If he used the wrong coolant it would take ages for the gasket to blow through corrosion, and he said he just got the car. Plus I doubt that this "paraflu" stuff is really necessary - any decent quality coolant has corrosion inhibitors in it and will protect the gasket.

Yes this paraflu stuff is really necessary it only applies to ****ty fiats, you're not supposed to use tap water either when refilling the system, distilled water is required. And yes he said he just got the car but its not brand new its a 97 car and the head gaskets are notoriously soft on these cars. Check in and around the oil filler cap for whitish sludge this is another sign your gasket is gone.

Thank you come again
Peter

Chaz

There was no white paste around the filler cap. Only place I found some was in the pipe between the carb's air filter and the tappet cover. That could be anything - however - yes - it is possible to be a head gasket. No other signs of it though.

BrianD3

White sludge results from water and oil mixing i.e HG gone. But the absence of sludge doesn't mean anything. The gasket can go in a number of ways - oil into water, water into oil, exhaust gases into water, water into the cylinders, or all of the above Your HG could be gone in such a way that the exhaust gases are getting into the coolant and causing it to boil resulting in overheating - but you might never get oil and water mixing.

Yes this paraflu stuff is really necessary it only applies to ****ty fiats

What's so special about it? It's just the overpriced, manufacturer recommended coolant which can only be bought at FIAT dealers, right? I could almost guarantee you that this stuff contains a mix of ethylene glycol + corrosion inhibitors and is therefore similar to any decent quality coolant that you could buy in any motor factors.

BrianD3

Chaz

Crazy situation. I will try bleed the system the weekend - alternately im ripping off the head. Anyone know estimate cost on gasket? What about tourque settings on the head bolts?

Thnks

BrianD3

Crazy situation. I will try bleed the system the weekend - alternately im ripping off the head. Anyone know estimate cost on gasket? What about tourque settings on the head bolts?

You're mad keen to take off the head aren't you. Hold your horses Even if it's not an airlock it could be a number of other things besides head gasket. Anyhow what you wrote earlier sounds quite likely to me.
"It seems as if original fault might have been fautly thermostat as the car would not move hot water through the radiator"

BrianD3

Chaz

Hehe - as I said - ill first try remove the airlock. What else can I do - the thermostat has been replaced - so too the switch (the fan does come on).

pedro ferio-vti

Originally posted by BrianD3

What's so special about it? It's just the overpriced, manufacturer recommended coolant which can only be bought at FIAT dealers, right? I could almost guarantee you that this stuff contains a mix of ethylene glycol + corrosion inhibitors and is therefore similar to any decent quality coolant that you could buy in any motor factors.

BrianD3

I appreciate that its overpriced, a ripoff etc and i don't know its exact composition i have just been told by a number of ppl 1 of them races fiats and another is a head mechanic in a dublin based dealer and also have learned first hand from my own mistakes. It may be the fact that the lad is using tap water moreso than paraflu but i'd use both just to be certain......

Moral of the story? Don't buy a fiat.

Peter

BrianD3

I appreciate that its overpriced, a ripoff etc and i don't know its exact composition i have just been told by a number of ppl 1 of them races fiats and another is a head mechanic in a dublin based dealer and also have learned first hand from my own mistakes. It may be the fact that the lad is using tap water moreso than paraflu but i'd use both just to be certain......

Fair enough. I'd also second the point about not using tap water, esp in a hard water area. So many car owners top up their coolant with pure tap water. Not only does it dilute the antifreeze but it also dilutes the rust inhibitors plus it introduces god knows what other ions (calcium etc.) into the system. I believe the ideal coolant is a mix of ethylene glycol + rust inhibitors + distilled water. Some coolant comes premixed so no need to add water. Renault coolant is like this and it's also overpriced but it is pretty decent stuff. However I have had bitter experience with Renault cooling systems so it's not just Fiat. I think Citroen and Peugeot systems are quite troublesome too. As for Rover cars fitted with the K-Series engine - now there's an engine with an appalling reputation for head gasket and cooling problems. I have heard literally hundreds of stories of head gasket failure on these cars.

BrianD3

Chaz

Sorted BTW. Headgasket was blown.

pedro ferio-vti

Good stuff chaz, glad to be of some help.

Neil3030

And they all lived happily ever after...