PC problem driving me NUTS!

Mr E

Hi folks,

I asked about this problem before, and it seemed to go away. Its back again (for the third time).

Basically, during a game, after a few minutes, the PC speaker would beep. Then after a few seconds more it would beep again. And again, and again and again. The beeps are two tone (BEEP beep BEEP beep), and they get closer together the longer I leave it, until the beeps are a consistent half second apart, with maybe a second or two break every 10 seconds.

After the original post, I installed new fans, and that seemed to fix it. After a few weeks, it came back. I asked a friend of mine and he suggested that maybe the graphics card wasn't getting enough juice. So I got a new power supply (500w). The problem went away again for another while, but now its back. And its not the graphics card.

I was transferring files from my Nomad Zen NX to my harddrive via a USB2 port, and the beeping started again after a minute or two. It was my first time copying from the Nomad to the PC. Data transfer slowed down from USB2 speeds to USB speeds (i.e. alot slower). I left it for a while to finish the transfer, and the beeping got more insistent. As soon as it finished, the beeping stopped immediately. (Note: I transferred a few gigs from my PC to the nomad over the weekend, and there were no problems).

I think there is some sort of bottleneck getting clogged up, and I need to pinpoint it and fix it.

I'm open to all suggestions!

Thanks in advance,
Dave.

Kavs

Buy a new CPU cooler??(chip overheating under load!)

MadKevo

Dave,
can you give Mobo model, BIOS revision, CPU type & speed, Memory make/model and config (e.g. 2 x 256 MB), graphics card make/model, OS & Service Pack for a start. Have you updated your BIOS, did you use drivers on manufacturer's CD for Mobo etc.
This info might help us help you.
MK

Mr E

Mobo: ABit BH7.
Memory: 2x256 (not sure what type)
BIOS: Award Bios 6PG
CPU: Intel Pentium 4 2.5GHz
Graphics: Radeon 9000 Series (Driver: 6.14.10.6378, 12/08/2003)
OS: Windows XP Pro, SP1.

Mobo drivers were taken from the CD I got with it.
Haven't updated BIOS.

- Dave.

Mr E

Some interesting (?) readings from the BIOS......

Temperatures:

SYS: 28C / 82F
CPU: Between 53C / 127F and 59C / 138F (too hot?)
PWM: 36C / 96F

The CPU and AUX fans are both going at over 2000 RPMs, but the SYS fan says 0 ?

unkel

Originally posted by TmB
So I got a new power supply (500w). The problem went away again for another while, but now its back.

What make is that PSU, not Qtec by any chance?

Giblet

A regular problem with SoftMenu in the BIOS.

Turn off the temperature safety features under Softmenu just leave the normal PC health ones on.

Mr E

Originally posted by unkel
What make is that PSU, not Qtec by any chance?

Can't remember.... got it in PC World a couple of months ago for €80 or €90..... why?

- Dave.

Mr E

Originally posted by Giblet
A regular problem with SoftMenu in the BIOS.

Turn off the temperature safety features under Softmenu just leave the normal PC health ones on.

I'll check that tonight, Giblet. I'm 99% sure that all the warnings under the PC Health menu are disabled. Are you saying to enable those again, and disable something else?

- Dave.

Mr E

Confirmed... all health settings are turned off (and they're all under the PC health menu in the BIOS). Any other suggestions?

- Dave.

Mr E

Figured out that the CPU is overheating. As soon as it hits 70 degrees, the PC speaker starts beeping.

I presume that the thermal paste thats there has dried out, so I'm going to grab some thermal paste today and reseat the CPU and heatsink.

Could overheating be caused by anything else?

- Dave.

Giblet

A badly placed heatsink, lack of a working fan, too much themal compound (supposed to just cover the DIE, and not the entire unit)

If it's hitting 70 C then you definatly need to look at it.

You overclock at all?

daveg

Dave,

You could try swapping components with another machine starting with the graphics card. At least you maybe able to isolate the problem to motherboard or power?

Mr E

A friend of mine installed the CPU for me, and he told me last night that he believes covering the entire unit reduces the temperature just a fraction more than usual. Ironically, I can see now that its probably whats causing my overheating.

Bought some thermal paste, so I'll refit it tonight.

Newbie question - Whats the best way of cleaning off the old paste?

- Dave.

Mr E

Originally posted by daveg
Dave,

You could try swapping components with another machine starting with the graphics card. At least you maybe able to isolate the problem to motherboard or power?

I'll start with the CPU, Dave. The Hardware Doctor program I got with my motherboard is pretty adamant that my CPU is overheating, and that makes sense (my beeping only starts when the CPU is being pushed).

- Dave.

Giblet

You're friend is an idiot, he basically put a nice warm blanket on your cpu.

Hmm, It's hard to clean off from all the chips, but I suggest you take your time, and don't apply too much pressure.

Cleaning the heatsink takes some white spirits.



The area is marked in red where the paste should be applyied, and it is the ONLY place it should be applied.

Put some on the heatsink where it contacts the die, and WIPE IT OFF to fill up all the little cracks.

Make sure you put a nice even thin layer of paste on the CPU. Too thick and it will cause problems, too thin and it will not work properly.

unkel

Originally posted by TmB
Newbie question - Whats the best way of cleaning off the old paste?

Alcohol or nail varnish remover

Did you check the PSU make?

Tivoli

oh my god, my cpu sits at about 70 all the time, never thought that was too hot,

question,
there is a rubber like pad on the heatsink when its new, maplins said not to touch it,and not to put compound on it, were they lying?

Giblet

Yes there is a Pad one some heatsinks, which is usually covered in tape! which you should of removed (unless it came in different packaging in which doesn't require the tape to be there)

The stuff that is already on the heatsink should never be touched with your hands, the second it is taking out of its packaging it should be fitted.

You can, however, remove this if you want using some nail varnish remover and apply your own paste, but it is not required, as the pad thats there is sufficent for non overclocked CPU's.

If your CPU is running at 70 C this implies an inproper installation, whether it be that the heatsink is not sitting right, or worse, you did not take the protective tape off the conducitve material!!

Get it checked out soon, and make sure you don't try reuse the heatsink without replacing the conductive material, as it is ineffective now that it's been exposed to heat, and wont work properly after you remove the heatsink.

Tivoli

will attack it wednesday, thanks gibbs

vibe666

you might want to think about maybe slapping your friend around a little bit for being a muppet too, and explaining to him why he's a muppet, so that he doesn't end up doing it to someone else less fortunate and destroying their processor.

Mr E

Thanks

I'm actually going to give it a go tonight (I've been busy for the last couple of nights).

I had a quick look last night, and an Intel P4 doesn't look like an AMD chip. Its flat on the top, with a little hieroglyphic on one corner and a small indentation on another corner. From what I can see from a bit of googling, the whole top of the chip has to be covered in paste, so my friend did nothing wrong.

- Dave.

Giblet

Eeeek,
http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm

Mr E

Ah wow.... OK so, if I'm reading that correctly ....

1. You just need a dot in the middle, and allow it to be spread by the heatsink when you're reattaching it?

2. It doesn't need to be spread to all corners manually?

- Dave.

astrofool

no, thats idiotic to post giblry, because it only applies to arctic silver ceramique (i use this stuff myself).

Best way with other paste is to put a small dot of it on the processor and then spread that one dot using a small spatchela type object(credit card will do in a pinch), all over the core, making the covering as thin and as uniform as possible. Treat the heatsink by cleaning it completely (take off the pink compound if u're using paste, very important, akasa do an organice compound that does it perfectly, paint thinner does not work on it), and after it is very clean, spread a little of the paste all over the contact area of the heat sink, after that is done, clean it off with a lint free cloth/tissue (one that doesn't leave bits of itself behind basically), this leaves the bottom looking a dull colour, as the compound has filled in the minute grooves.

After that is done, attacj the heatsink very carefully, and you're ready to go.

Mr E

Thanks Astrofool. I'm using Coolermaster Thermal paste......

- Dave.

Sir Random

Yeah, just press the HS straight down onto the blob. I gave mine a few twists to squeeze out any air pockets and flatten the compound as thin as possible. Check that your heatspreader is flat by placing a blade edge across it and looking for any gaps (a bright light will shine through any gaps).

I noticed a slight depression in my P4 heatspreader so I decided to lap it. The centre of the spreader transfers 80% of the heat so it's not very efficient to have an air pocket or a pool of thermal compound there.


After 10~20 minutes lapping, the depression could still clearly be seen (there's even some text left)


When I got it flat, there were some patches of copper showing through, so I decided to keep lapping until it was all copper:


This lowered my idle temps by ~2c and load temps are down ~6c

N.B. Lapping voids your warranty!

Mr E

OK, the saga continues.....

After my adventures reseating the CPU this week, I had a quick game of Max Payne 2 tonight. Didn't even make it out of the hospital before the beeping started again.

So the CPU is snug against the heatsink, and there is plenty of air circulating around the case.

Getting a shiny new Radeon 9800 in a few weeks, so I'll see if that makes any difference.

Any other ideas to try in the meantime?

- Dave.

unkel

Just out of curiosity - what make is the PSU?

Mr E

Jeantech, 500w (JNP-500AP)

Got it in PC World a few weeks ago for €70....

- Dave.

BigEejit

If it is still giving you gyp ... (Abit Hardware Doctor showing 70+Celsius) then you still havent sorted your CPU cooling ... Get a program called prime95 or sisoft sandra and use the burn in modes in either program .... have hardware doctor open and look at your temps...

Afaik you should have the shutdown temp for your processor set to 80 - 90 degrees (well, with more recent Abit boards thats what they are saying), the reason for this is to stop your CPU being damaged ... i think that the P4 CPU will turn off completely when you hit 115 degrees (not certain of that, read it a good while back) .... I was told by several peeps that the best way to do it is to get rid of the frigging TIM on the heatsink (small black square), which is hard to do. Use only wooden or plastic tools, clean it off completely with nail polish remover .... clean the CPU off as well .... the heatsink may have the black outline of the TIM as it will have filled the tiny voids, clean as best you can. Make sure there is no black from the TIM left on the CPU. Put the CPU in place and then get some thermal paste and put a small blob (tiny, you can add another tiny blob if it needs it) on the CPU heatspreader ... spread it all over by putting a new sandwich bag on you finger ..... Put on your heatsink ... make sure it is properly seated and then take it off again to ensure that you have a nice square of HS compound on it, if you dont then you have a problem ... maybe with the CPU like sir Random had, or maybe with the Heatsink..... if all is ok, respread the paste thats already on there (no need for new stuff) and on the heatsink as well (just the square that has paste on it already) and reassemble ... then run prime95 again and watch your temps .....

Mr E

Thanks for that, BigEejit..... appreciate it.

However, it looks like its a possible air circulation prob. After I checked the PSU model for Unkel, I left the cover off.

Played a game of Max Payne 2 for half and hour without any difficulty (it usually starts beeping at 10 or 15 mins). Quit the game, looked at hardware doctor, and the temp was 52-55 ... well below the 70 degree warning level, but still a little high (probably due to the incoming cool air not filling the case with the cover off).

The case fan at the back is pulling in cold air. The fan in 5¼ inch bay is pulling in cold air, but it looks like there isn't anything in there to pull the air out again.

I'll grab SiSandra anyway, just to do a complete workout.

Next step.... a nice air extraction fan. Any recommendations?

- Dave.

Sir Random

The fan at the back should be expelling air! That's your problem m8, I had an Athlon that nearly fried (even the case was too hot to touch in places) because it had two fans blowing out (psu & case fan). Just reverse that rear fan and you should be fine.

If the rear fan is next to the psu, it's probably drawing in hot air too!

Mr E

Eeep! :eek:

I'll do it immediately.

- Dave.