Crime

star gazer

The gangland crime area is now coming onto the front page of newspapers where it might have been put on the inside pages before. There needs to be a greater emphasis from government on serious crime. It is not acceptable to find parts of Dublin or Limerick under a wave of fear, given the power of criminal gangs. The scourge of hard drugs has been a blight on Irish society and the situation doesn't seem to be getting any better. As a response to the above issues would people be willing to pay extra taxes to get extra Gardaí out there and tackle the social causes of drug abuse?

Since the people in general don't want to pay extra services in health ect. the majority will probably not vote for higher taxes (irish times poll a couple of weeks ago)) for this either.

Sparks

Originally posted by star gazer
As a response to the above issues would people be willing to pay extra taxes to get extra Gardaí out there and tackle the social causes of drug abuse?

And how would we know those taxes went to pay for the 2,000 extra gardai we were promised instead of a new jet for bertie and the boys?

star gazer

I take your point. In an ideal world governments would do what the people actually wanted them to do. However the stronger the message politicians hear on the doorstep and from the media as a response to that pressure the more likely they are to at least look like they are doing something. Right now the government has to look like it will do something or the media and the person on the door step will chastise them. If the government lose scores of collegues on councils throughout the country then they see there are the consequences.

bonkey

Originally posted by Sparks
And how would we know those taxes went to pay for the 2,000 extra gardai we were promised instead of a new jet for bertie and the boys?

a) You dont

b) You can't.

By this logic you should never accept any proposal by any government to spend any money. I'm sure that will go a long way to fixing problems.

Indeed, lets not even accept suggestions to save money, as the savings might also be spent on a new toy for Bertie....better complain about and oppose any initiatives by the government to actually do a better job then...cause it might all just be a ruse to buy a few new jets.

And, of course, given that you believe that anyone who gets to where those politicians are will be at least as corrupt as them, its not just the current party which is the problem.....so I guess we're just screwed.

Might as well just shut down the country, and ask the last person out to turn off the lights. Its about the only way you can be sure your government aren't ripping you off.

As a response to the above issues would people be willing to pay extra taxes to get extra Gardaí out there and tackle the social causes of drug abuse?

I would...but my guess is that many people would insist that they already pay for the policing of the state, so adding new taxes to pay for the service we should be getting already would be wrong.

Of course, none of this matters. The government don't need public approval for the allocation of funds, or for increasing the tax rates. They just need to convince us at election time that they're worth electing.

jc

woosaysdan

the cops on the streets do sweet fu<k all anyway extra cops will just make more cops sitting around doing nothing all day!!! money well spent:rolleyes:

simu

the cops on the streets do sweet fu<k all anyway

On the contrary, they're a pretty good deterant IMO. Anybody thinking of beating you up for your mobile will think twice about it if there's a good chance a garda will appear at any minute. Of course, there never are that many around.

As for the gangs in Limerick, that's a bit trickier. They must learn that the law applies to them too... Seeing as the gardaí probably know the ppl involved really well, they should adopt a no-tolerance policy for even the smallest breach of the law, protect witnesses in trials well so they are not intimidated by criminals - sure, it would be expensive but it's necessary to uphold the law of the land.

star gazer

originally posted by woosaysdan.
the cops on the streets do sweet fu<k all anyway extra cops will just make more cops sitting around doing nothing all day!!! money well spent

Surveilance, infiltration and presence. The minister says an extra two million for the gardaí, the gangs are probably able to match that for their defence if necessary. It is the groundwork and the profile building that can lead to sting operations and arrests. Having a presence on the ground lets people know that they have someone to run to if intimidation does come into it. More gardaí and more resources for them if targeted at criminal gangs will be able to face down the gangs, push them away from serious crime and reinforce the belief that breaking the law will not be worth it.

ReefBreak

Originally posted by Sparks
And how would we know those taxes went to pay for the 2,000 extra gardai we were promised instead of a new jet for bertie and the boys?

Well, for a start you could pay the extra taxes directly to the Gardai in the form of Anti-Crime Payments. Just like the Bin Charges, but for crime. That way you know where your money is being spent.

billy the squid

The guards cannot do their job without the help of the public. A classic demonstration of that was displayed at the beginning of this week. The guards asked around got statments identified who they felt was their man and when it went to court their witnesses lost their spine

As for the 2 million euro offered by the department of justice to tackle the issue that was a joke. What happened to the 42 million the government saved by people not claiming that medical refund scheme which expired on 31 october wehre people who were over charged had to claim before that date and didnt

there is 40 million euro we are not likely to see again.

Surveilance, infiltration and presence

infiltration would be difficult with the gangs in limerick as they are all related to one another

There are things the public can do.

Two weeks ago limerick city council evicted the first of its tennants for anti-social behaviour. surely some of these gang members are living in council houses which are rented after all that is where most of the trouble is occouring Moyross O'Malley park, Ballinanty, If their neighbours were to make a complaint every time they carried out scumbag activity they could have them removed from their neighbourhood. The woman who was evicted from a city council estated can never put her name on a housing waiting list again. The council is under no obligation to house her.

These people are collecting massive ammounts of drug money surely the revenue Commission could carry out an audit on these people.

Hobart

I see the problem, partly, as an issue aphaty (sp?) and frustration. The Guards are constantly frustrated by the inability of the DPP to prosecute known felons. I have experience of this at first hand. They also have an issue where the "remand" period for serious crimes is totally inadequate. What this entails is that a murder "suspect", emphasis on the suspect, who may have confessed to the Guards, but would plead mitigating circumstances, is back on the street within 2 weeks of being charged and remanded. Free to take flight, which again is very common, or intimidate certain people, as was well publisised this week. And the Guards, and only the Guards, have to follow procedure.


Too many times have I heard stories of cars/sheds being broken into. Mobile phones bein stolen etc... Ask that person if they reported it to the Guards. Some will say yes. They did. And the Guards have told them rthat they have no chance of resolving it. Others will lokk at you and laugh. And say, Why should I waste my time? Some crimes, IMO, have become acceptable. And it's wrong.

gurramok

The public can only help if there is protection and prosecution of the suspect does work.
Presently, its not worth the hassle for a member of the public to inform on any of the gangs activities.
Remember, people(including myself) living in the communites blighted by gang violence would not think twice about stepping in their way, its not worth a bullet in the head.
Just look at what happened to law abiding citizens in Limerick who paid with their lives for giving statements to gardai.

It needs an iron fist approach from the authorites to nab the bad guys in the act and the justice system overhauled to allow witnesses to have protection.
Bail should be refused for suspects of serious crimes, whatever happened to the bail law that was passed by referenda a few years back ??

ReefBreak

Just look at what happened to law abiding citizens in Limerick who paid with their lives for giving statements to gardai.

As a Limerickman, I can assure you that no "law-abiding" citizens have been involved in giving statements to the GArdai. WIth one exception (the bouncer at Docs Niteclub) it's all been scum killing scum in Limerick.

star gazer

origianlly posted by Reefbreak
WIth one exception (the bouncer at Docs Niteclub)

All you need is one example to intimidate the entire population. The Gardaí need to be there on the street and also undercover gathering evidence to get convictions.